1st point of course they are old and used. It's in the deal title. I'm not sure how something could be new and refurbished.

2nd I type this on a perfectly viable i3 powered variant of this machine an E6330 (only difference is the larger screen and outer plastics) the one on offer here is an i5 which is considerably more powerful than my machine which is happily chugging away with internet browsing with a dozen tabs open and playing a video in HD to an external monitor via netflix.

3rd refurbished does not mean repaired, repaired means repaired. Refurbished in business grade machines generally refers to them being returned to a leasing company that supplied the tech to another company to use normally over a period of 3-5 years. The machines are then sold on to a refurb supplier like Newandused, SCCTrade, Rectech etc to wipe, spot clean, reinstall and rebox. If refurbished meant repaired then Argos would be out of business by now.

4th please provide a non refurbished machine with performance levels to match this, that offers at least the same ram, a hard disk space while also being under £120. I await the silence. In fact I'll even let it slide if you find a better deal based on your criteria for under £200.

I don't think you do understand what "value" mean. Can you find me one with similar CPU (none of that Celeron crap) 8GB and 1TB for similar money? No? I thought so.

Really should put that these are 'Refurbished Grade 2' in the title.

I've got one of these. Bought elsewhere, but they run brilliantly, spec-wise. Main downside is the screen, which has poor viewing angles.

I have now put 8GB and an ssd in, but it ran great beforehand.

Seller has good feedback considering the sheer numbers they sell too. I don't think it means there were faulty and parts have been replaced - other have bought from this seller on here and got nearly new laptops!

The battery isn't guaranteed. If you end up with a rubbish one, that could put you out of pocket, even further.

I don't think you do understand what "value" mean. Can you find me one with similar CPU (none of that Celeron crap) 8GB and 1TB for similar money? No? I thought so.

1st point of course they are old and used. It's in the deal title. I'm not sure how something could be new and refurbished.

2nd I type this on a perfectly viable i3 powered variant of this machine an E6330 (only difference is the larger screen and outer plastics) the one on offer here is an i5 which is considerably more powerful than my machine which is happily chugging away with internet browsing with a dozen tabs open and playing a video in HD to an external monitor via netflix.

3rd refurbished does not mean repaired, repaired means repaired. Refurbished in business grade machines generally refers to them being returned to a leasing company that supplied the tech to another company to use normally over a period of 3-5 years. The machines are then sold on to a refurb supplier like Newandused, SCCTrade, Rectech etc to wipe, spot clean, reinstall and rebox. If refurbished meant repaired then Argos would be out of business by now.

4th please provide a non refurbished machine with performance levels to match this, that offers at least the same ram, a hard disk space while also being under £120. I await the silence. In fact I'll even let it slide if you find a better deal based on your criteria for under £200.

Don't forget: similar build-quality.
This is a business grade laptop not some cheap plastic consumer laptop built down to a price.
For that generation and 125" screens the choice was this Dell Latitude E6230, the HP Elitebook 2570p, and the Lenovo X230. The best built one was the 2570p but it is heavy (18-1.9KG but they squeeze a DVD in there too).
Anyway here's the NBC review:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Latitude-E6230-Notebook.83266.0.html
Great value for a top spec Ivy Bridge laptop (remember CPUs have barely improved in the meantime and Intel HD4000 is still okay too). Voted hot

This laptop at this price with these spec's should easily get 700 degrees+ hot. People on here who voted this cold don't understand what your getting this laptop for, this deal is great value.

So the two components that are easiest and cheapest to upgrade "make this poor value?"

C'mon, be serious.