That is what franchised dealers charge for replacing the EGR. It can't be blanked off because many people do not use modern-day diesels the most efficient way and that is why these EGR faults keep occurring.


Whilst I advocate using premium quality fuels only on all cars, the Ceremex process costs £300 minimum if you want a good job to be done. You also assume AdBlue are reliable. They aren't and AdBlue heaters have been starting to fail too. You may have no issues, but you cannot extrapolate that to meaning all diesel cars/vans do not.



5-7 years? Who recommends that? VAG recommend 120,000 miles or four years (whichever is sooner). If you buying a car that just over three years old and has not had its timing belt changed, I would change it.




So you will only replace the turbo? Unless your car has stop-start, many people don't bother to let the turbos cool and that more often than not creates the failure in the first place, because the oil feed and oil return pipes become blocked with carbon when the engine is frequently shut down when the turbo is too hot. This then starves the turbo bearing of its lubrication as well as its cooling. Hence the pricing.



Cool story dude! The 1.9 TDI non-DPF was VAG's most reliable and economical diesel engine. But again, if it hasn't had a timing belt, tensioner, waterpump and alternator belt change, it needs one, irrespective of what you think.



I have never said diesels don't have a purpose, but, unless you regularly do 20,000 miles a year or need to tow something or need carry heavy loads or carry seven people, don't buy a diesel. You'd be better off with getting a small turbo petrol or a hybrid, like a PSA 1.2 130 Puretech that combine power, torque, fuel economy (50mpg) and, so far, very good reliability.



There aren't many petrol vans at all for obvious reasons.

1. Never seen an EGR for that much and can be blanked off anyway (likely to only go wrong by doing short distances or running on supermarket Diesel
2. DPF - Again only likely to go wrong by doing short distances and running on supermarket fuel..can be deleted or cleaned out for much less than the £300-400 you are quoting. Even less of an issue on new cars due to AdBlue tanks on them which dissolve the ash. We have sprinters and vitos at work running adblue and have done 200k plus with no issues
3. a 3 year old car is unlikely to need a timing belt. Most intervals are now 5-7 years or 100-150k miles. This also applies to petrol
4. New turbo? Yeah...same as petrol which run at a much higher PSI than the diesel counterpart so are likely to fail earlier. Also no where near £1500 for a replacement

My mate bought my old car off me (1.9TDI PD Bora) with 120k on it. I had it from new. He is now on 190k on the original turbo, EGR and waterpump and glow plugs. This one was just before DPFs came in (2004) but the key with its longevity is using the correct oil and using decent diesel...ie Shell which has cleaning additives. Conversely my mate bought a Polo with an identical engine at the same time, run solely on supermarket fuel and the EGR clogged up after 80k and the turbo went at 125k. At the time, we compared the EGR's on each others cars, mine was clean and his looked like some sort of 80 year olds lung who had smoked 100 a day.

Over that 190k i dread to think what the savings would be over the cost of the equivalent petrol at the time (1.8t 150bhp) which would probably get 30-35mpg vs 50-55mpg with similar if not higher servicing costs (ie spark plugs every 30k) and higher VED.

At 35mpg over 190k = 24643 litres of Petrol
At 55mpg over 190k = 15683 litres of Diesel

Even at a quid a litre thats nearly a £9k saving for having the diesel. Could have got quite a few £600 turbos for that amount of saving!

Finally, we have one Vito at work that is on 885k miles on the original 2.1 merc lump. Would like to see how an equivalent petrol faired over that distance.

I have recently had my work car replaced with a BMW 330e hybrid and I can only average the same MPG as i got in my previous diesels with it and that's having to spend £1 every day on electric charging the thing!

No, the point is that some people do understand it, but for reasons bigger than just their selfish needs, they consider the wider impact of their actions.

Worrying about macro economics for these kind of examples is probably over complicating things a tad... We're not studying "The effects of Quantitative Easing on emerging economies" here....

It's simply one man/woman taking a cheap fixed rate loan to buy a car whilst making more money on the cash they already hold whether that's 10k, 100k or a million quid.

The point I was making is, the "you cant afford it!" stigma associated with borrowing money is mostly generated and voiced by people who dont understand the many reasons why someone might take a cheap loan.

Anyone can start doing it no matter how little they have to begin with. However it's important that people dont get themselves stuck in a vicious debt cycle where the costs are outweighing the returns. That becomes a nasty and deep hole to try and dig yourself out from.

Great example of use of cash. I've known people to take the same approach. It's all good for those who can afford it, but unfortunately interest makes the rich richer and the poor poorer as evident in today's global economy. It may seem perfect for one individual, but a macro economic view is far more important.

Cannot understand the postulating logic of people who automatically assume that taking out a loan, categorically constitutes a lack of affordability for those who are borrowing. Especially considering interest rates are on the floor currently.

If hypothetically, I had 100k in cash now and this car was my next priority purchase, I would still happily take the 2.8% loan instead of touching any of the cash. Getting just a modest 5-7% return per annum on the 100k, even in the current climate doesn't take too much effort or thought. 7% - 2.8% = 4.2%pa return.

Investing takes many, many, many forms.

Most DPFs last about 130k miles before they're filled with incombustible ash, and as you said, they're cleanable for £300 -pretty inconsequential next to a typical 40% mpg gain over the equivalent output petrol over 130k miles. Factor in cheaper tax, plenty of diesels have lifetime timing belts/chains, or ones that will last at least as long as the ones fitted to petrol engines. Many petrols also carry a turbo now, which actually end up working harder than their diesel counterparts, fragile coil packs on petrols causing misfires and potentially cracking piston crowns.

A modern petrol car can be just as expensive if you're unlucky enough to have everything go on you.

If you do 100k miles over 10 years on something like my wife's 2015 A1 1.6TDI, you've saved at least £1400 in car tax, about £3500 in fuel costs (assuming 60mpg in the diesel and 43mpg in the petrol, diesel costs 118ppL, petrol costs 116ppL). Right now, diesel residuals are still as good as petrol (used to be far better).

So what? The rate at which your house appreciating is immaterial to the want or need to drive a car of your choosing. If you want to be in a car of any given age and price and can afford whatever means to be driving it for as long as you want to be the keeper, what does it matter whether you buy outright, lease or do a PCP?

Many people need a car, and if they haven't got £10k/20k/30k + sitting in the bank, why should they be consigned to driving an old banger if they can afford the £200/300/400pm that the leasers or car manufacturers are charging.

I have bought both our cars outright from new, they're depreciating about £500pm collectively and I would've spent about £750pm on PCPs, so money saved vs PCP, but I could've leased both for about £500pm on the best deals that have cropped up and left my money in the bank - sometimes I wish I had.

My interest rates on my mortgage are tiny at the moment (Lifetime Woolwich tracker, Baserate +0.19%), but when they go back to the 4% we have been used to before 2008, they will be a lot more expensive.

House appreciation is completely subjective until someone has bought your house for the price you have been told it is worth by that very optimistic estate agent. Even so, unless you're going to be houseless after the sale, have you really gained when your next house has also appreciated?

What a load of rubbish.

PCP is a safety net with guaranteed values. Has the flexibility of changing early unlike leasing. Manufacturers incentive renewals and if they get the figures wrong you can just hand the car back or Voluntary terminate the car. I've just handed a car back on PCP which was in £3000 negative without any penalty. APR was 2.9% and had a deposit contribution that makes it even less. Vs Lease company's Processing fee/ handling charges plus no flexibility.

:joy:

Does it need to have an current MOT

No pedals too.

A rear-engined Skoda.

On most up to date cars, it is the electrics likely to fail rather than the mechanicals, and as said before - plenty of common parts between petrol and diesel equally likely to fail as most petrols are down-sizing and going turbo, little petrol engines being worked very hard under load. Plenty of used diesels still running with galatic mileages, not so many petrols. Diesel fuel is a natural lubricant, petrol is a natural solvent.

Diesels aren't clean, but neither are petrols. Old pre-DPF diesels run cooler than the new diesels, so you get plenty of highly visible soot, but very little NOx. DPF equipped diesels run hot, to burn the soot off, so almost no soot out of the tail pipe, but plenty of NOx - all varieties of diesel are lower in CO2 mile for mile than petrols due to the better mpg - the carbon content in fuel becomes CO2, less fuel = less CO2.

Newer direct injection petrols are kicking out plenty of particulates, finer than old diesels, so harder to see coming out of the tailpipe - but it's there, my Golf R's tailpipes are sooty, my old Golf GTD's were immaculately clean. Finer soot stays in the air longer, more likely to be inhaled and more likely to travel further in your body.


There are no clean cars, just ones which are perceived as cleaner. Battery production for electrics is a filthy process environmentally , and while we're still burning coal and oil in our power stations, it is a case of "not in my back garden" - they still have a heavy CO2 footprint.

So what? If you don't have the money to buy a car outright you shouldn't buy it on loan because it depreciates, but feel righteous enough to buy a house that way because it will usually appreciate? Whether the car deprecates or the house depreciates shouldn't come into why you should buy one or the other with finance. You are a hypocrite.

I bought both of our famly cars outright from new, but that doesn't give me the moral right to sneer at everyone who took finance or leased to get the same cars. PCP finance (if you never pay the balloon payment) and leasing both cover the depreciation in their own way. I wish i'd leased and left the money in the bank TBH.

Dont get me wrong, I prefer petrol to diesel and whilst my wife's car has been great I much prefer driving my petrol car and will probably change hers for a petrol eventually as the modern petrol cars are efficient, even with mega power.

But in general the diesel cars we've owned have been fine and not suffered or cost any more to run than the petrol ones.

Tamworth Audi & Coventry Audi. I checked with both. Coventry took a lot longer to get back to me though.

"Hi,

Thanks for your enquiry regarding the Scrappage Scheme.

With the scrappage scheme your offer will be based on the carwow cash offer of £28,293 as It is not available in combination with Audi UK finance offers.

Providing your car is diesel, Euro-4 rated or lower, registered by 31 December 2009 and owned by you for at least six months, your Audi UK scrappage incentive support will be £7,000. Please use the below link to see the terms and conditions in full.
audi.co.uk/own…tml

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Kind Regards

Franco"

"Good afternoon,

Thank you for your message, Yes the Scrappage can be used in conjunction with the Cash offer.

Can you let me know your registration and I will check if your car is eligible for the scheme.

Many thanks

Jo"

I have double checked your prices and both include the 4K dealer contribution on pcp.

What dealership? I spoke to hitchin audi via carwow and they said you cant use the scrappage scheme on the carwow price

A scrappage allowance is a retail offer, if you have fleet discount that will be instead of.

I think i read said somewhere to build run and dispose of a prius produces the same environmental harm as 5 petrol cars. Including manufacturing. Might be wrong but it rings a bell

Nothing wrong with diesel and a lot of them with DPF's apparently are cleaner than petrol cars. Gov scaremongering plays a part also. Its difficult for a consumer to make the right decision at mo

Ironic thing is - I cant say ive had a problem with any Diesel car ive owned other than wear & tear components. (And a loose connector to the Immobiliser circuit on an old car)
Petrols on the other hand, ive had Coil pack failure, misfires, lambda sensor failures, ECU failure, (suspected to be caused by the coil pack).
Never ever going back to petrol.

Broadspeed: Audi A6 TDI Ultra S tronic S line Auto 4dr Saloon: DRIVE-AWAY Grand Total Price, Inc Fees: £28,011 (cheaper by £1,517)

Edit: Coast2Coast: AUDI A6 2.0 TDI Ultra 4 door S Line Saloon: £27,796 (cheaper by £1,732)

+1, we bought my wife's diesel back in 2009 and we've not had to replace anything as yet after 78k miles.

Depends on the make, model, how you maintain it etc.

The T&C's only say "It is not available in combination with any other offers, including any finance offers."
A fleet discount is not another offer and their T&C is wildly different to "do not allow double discounts amounting to some 35%"

I just got two quotes through Carwow from two dealerships for the £33,880 Audi A6 TDI Ultra SE Executive Manual 4DR Saloon. The lower of the two at £28,293 cash price.

And the dealership has just confirmed that the scrappage scheme is also valid on that price of £28,293.

Sorry, don't get your point.

Ive told him all this before. M5rcc seems to think Diesels are guaranteed to fail after 4 years and at 50k miles and petrols don't have anything go wrong with them. Lost count of how many times ive explained that a modern petrol shares the vast majority of components as a Diesel. EGR valves, Turbos, Injectors, Timing Belt, Tensioners, Water Pump, Catalytic converter- Even dual mass flywheels are found on some petrols now.
Yet apparently these only fail on diesels?

The ones which are practically the same as petrol?

Agreed but my opening status stated pcp and outright purchase

Congratulations on your unicorn.

So your assumption is that every diesel car has these components fail? You are incorrect, granted there is a bit more risk but I have been driving my Mondeo 2.2 diesel for 4 years and taken it from 53k to 95k without those components failing and the timing belt is expected to be replaced at around 100k. Yes I bought a used diesel as many many people do!

You are just spouting FUD

Got an offer from my local dealer on carwow, messaged them and asked. They will not do the scrappage offer with any other offer, so no deal!

Mainly to plan their future cash flow and keep depreciating assets off the books.

Again - ommiting all the diesel maintenance costs on a used car.

Does it come with indicators?

Are you talking about leasing or PCP here? You seem confused, it's pretty rare to be pushed into a lease by a dealer. You usually lease a car through a leasing specialist.

If leasing cars is so bad financially why do pretty much all businesses do it that way?

Precisely. £20/30 a year or £140 a year and less fuel economy... tough choice.

Sure.

People who do a lot of mileage?

You're buying at the dealership after you got the fleet discount from the broker. As ezzer mentioned previously, the T&Cs do not allow double discounts amounting to some 35%.

Why?

This deal is purchasing directly from the dealership at a cash price. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be eligible for the scrappage scheme.

This deal is not a PCP.

There are some good deals on A4's on broadspeed.com, and its much easier to just see the price rather than the carwow quoting faff. Has anyone actually tried this yet and seen if the scrappage scheme will work on these lower price cars?

Morning! PCP and Purchasing a new car is the trap. PCP (Retail Finance) entails high APR's, Depreciation, and at times negative equity, which is why we refuse to sell it. Probably a very good reason for it to be regulated by the FCA, like we are. On the flip side if you pay top dollar for a car, you get stung on depreciation. That's why leasing is so great. You don't own the car, so the depreciation is not for you to worry about, plus you get Road Tax included, and benefit from fleet discounts. There is a finance product for everyone, but we're all about leasing brand new cars. We advise customers to look at the total cost of the lease then compare to buying new/PCP. You will see the savings straight off. Take this one for example AUDI (£217.99 x 23 month = £5,013.77 + Initial Rental of £1,961.91 = £6,975.68 + £150 = £7,125.68 over 2 years total cost. That's a cost of £3,562.84 per year. Now when you keep in mind the retail cost of the car is £33,690, with first year depreciation in region of £8,000 alone, that's before allowing for expensive PCP payments if you financed it. That's why having a lease is the way forward, as the depreciation is not your problem, because it's a lease rental. After all, none of us would buy a house if the estate agent told us you'd lose £10k this year and £8k next year.

Just my opinion to each is own

You mean it is impossible for you to get it 2.8%

No

Impossible to get a loan from M and S for 2.8%. I applied for less than £10k which I can comfortably afford to borrow more than double that amount and they came back with 5.8%. zopa offered me 3%. Just waiting on Sainsbury's coming through with an offer now hopefully 2.9%.

Lots of heat, lots of comments, but can the two deals actually be combined to reach a cash price of £22528?

I concur...

I mean, it's less of an environmental impact than petrol/diesel.

And who even buys new cars now? Just lease the thing.

I understand that - but there is still a cost, both environmental and financial, in going through the whole process of recycling.

I didn't mention battery purchasing or leasing, but since you did here we go.

They've not been degrading as fast as initially thought, so stuff like the Renault battery backup solutions they've been working on in Germany doesn't have enough old batteries as they've stayed healthier in the cars than was initially predicted. Tesla is doing the same thing with their Power Wall.

Even after they're done in cars they have other uses for many, many years after. Also they can be taken out of cars and recycled into new car batteries.

Yet you've ignored all the problems a used diesel brings - EGR £500 - £1000; DPF £1,000+ (though they can usually be chemically cleaned via Ceremex for about £3-400). A three year old car will need a new timing belt, tensioner, waterpump and alternator belt in a year or so, costing £500. If the turbo fails, that will be about £1500 + new turbo bearing oil feed and oil return pipes. So yeh...a bargain!

Sure they are easily recyclable, but batteries lose capacity over time. That's why electric cars remain to be expensive because the cost is in the very expensive batteries. Better to buy the car at a lower price and to lease the battery. Then, when it starts to lose capacity, the manufacturer has to replace it. Replacing batteries over the long term is not the greatest environmental solution, is it?

Is this a joke or trick question? £20 - £30 a year in tax and 60mpg?

Houses usually appreciate - heck here in Belper my house is appreciating in value at near double the APR of my mortgage. The average is £37 a day increase.

Mmm, except that amount of lithium in a battery is actually really small (2% of a battery mass). And it can now be extracted as a byproduct of oil, we've been throwing it away for years. There's companies looking at extracting it from sea water too.

Also both of those things are easily recycled at the end of their life, neither of them "wear out". I mean copper is rediciously easy to recycle.

Just wait till interest rates rise...

I knew someone would provide this response. It's pretty simple, you want to minimise your debt and interest payments. So with the house example, you would buy modestly based on your need. Unfortunately the same can't be said about taking out a loan to buy this car.

No surprise. They've been like that for a while. The problem is not what the public perceives diesels to be. The problem is the high cost of maintaining the emissions equipment on them as they get older and that's why their prices have collapsed.

I've seen 2/3 year old avants going for relative buttons on eBay lately.

Lots of recent small time, BTL landlords are in the process of disagreeing with you.

Probably more true with a hybrid given the efforts needed to extract the lithium and copper to make the batteries in the first place.

Depends on the car, right? If it's 100% electric that's probably not true.

Why would you want to buy a used diesel?

don't intend to. it's a 2010 with 33000 on the clock. i havent driven over 4500 miles annually in 3 years.

Just to clarify, that's any new car registered after the 1st of April 2017. There is another table for cars registered before this date and they are still based on CO2 emissions and are quite fair on diesels currently e.g. looking for a used Corsa diesel at the moment and may end up paying £20 or £30 a year in tax. Of course this may change with the autumn budget as I have said.

I wouldn't rush out to change it - you'll do more harm to the environment in buying a new car than running your existing one.

UK is not interested - they allow it to happen.

I have a diesel VW Scirocco. Hit by the scandal, but I actually had mine remapped anyway by Revo.

No need to apologise - theres a lot of Scaremongering in the Media so its not suprising that its confusing to some (the anti diesel drive is being caused by high profile media news stories, NOT the government)

Its rather interesting if you research the history of it.
Essentially it was all started by Volkswagen with the emmisions scandal. That gave Diesel engines a bad rep, further fueled by campaigners and media lobbying.
Nothing official has ever been stated by the government only that sales of combustion powered cars will be banned in 2040.

Already the prospect of euro6 bans in some european cities.

Munich wants to exclude euro6 vehicles from its forthcoming diesel ban however environmental groups have mounted a court action arguing that the nitrogen dioxide levels from most euro 6 engines are comparable to those fron euro 4 engines.

The diesel ban initially came about as a result of court action from the same environmental groups because mubich was failing to meet its europe set air quality levels.

google.co.uk/amp…amp

Good luck!

only drove 3.5k miles last year too. Bloody waste having a diesel, but when I bought it I was doing 80 miles a day

Any car that has emmisions of CO2 is now taxed at £140 as of April 2017 so the same as petrol.

Lots of links on google,

Of particular note:
articles.sae.org/13624/
campaign.stssensors.com/blo…nes

this is a diesel right? the road tax will be insanely high or am i missing something

This is likely cheaper from DriveTheDeal.com as i don't find carwow very competitive at all.

The whole point of these schemes is to remove older higher polluting cars off the road. If you look at the difference in emissions between a Euro 5 and 6 it's massive let alone pre 2009 Euro 4 cars.

I don't think we're being penalised right now (not sure about new car tax charges) however there is a view that the autumn budget will see the introduction of some penalties e.g. extra duty on diesel, maybe a adder on car tax. Theresa May has said that although new measures will be introduced to curb diesel cars going forward, it can be too harsh as previous governments promoted their use.

Not sure why anyone would buy diesel now

You have to have owned the diesel car you are scrapping for 6 months I believe.

Facelift A6 coming out soon.

Would you get £7k off even if it's a 2007 registration

Good price, but worth showing price before scrappage in title as not everyone will have an eligible car to scrap.

Not sure I agree with the loan - if you can't afford it, don't buy it :smile:

BTW hot for not being a lease deal that this site is riddled with.

I didn't know about the car scrappage scheme. Is it for all cars,

I bought my first diesel car last year and love the fact that I fill it up every other week rather than every week with the previous petrol engined cars.

Will they be offering a scrappage scheme for pre 31st December 2009, HGV's, Taxicabs, Aircraft and Ships?

This post is misleading to say the least

What car do you need to trade in to get the 7k?

Similar discounts at car file, their page talks about the scrap page in more details.


SCRAPPAGE CUSTOMERS!
AUDI HAVE ANNOUNCED A SCRAPPAGE ALLOWANCE OF £7000 ON THE AUDI A6 RANGE. THIS IS AVAILABLE ON CASH DEALS. IF YOU HAVE SCRAPPAGE AND WANT AUDI FINANCE THEN THATS IS FINE BUT THERE WILL BE NO DEPOSIT CONTRIBUTION AVAILABLE.

Good deal but as soon as the government turns the screws again on diesel and looks at Euro 6 cars value will drop like a stone. Hopefully will get enough use prior though. If anyone one is set on a diesl might be better to pcp or lease that way you have options to get out at the end. Just my opinion and sure it wont be that of everyone

Think you'll find you can't have both discounts, all scrappage deals are exempt from other retail offers so you'd lose any deposit contributions/ registration bonuses if you go down that route. And I'm sure they don't have £5500 pure chassis margin to give away even through Carwow

Surely the Audi scrappage scheme is only available for cars purchased directly through Audi?

I may be wrong of course, but here is the link which mentions it replacing all other offers;

audi.co.uk/own…tml

It looks to me like any available discounts are topped up by a further £2000.

The cash price is already more than £5k less than RRP, so the cash price discount is already there. There might be a further deposit contribution to be had by taking up PCP with Audi finance. Haven't looked into it to know, but it is quite likely.

The scrappage scheme usually replaces any other offers, so I doubt you would get £5k discount and then a further £7k off - it's more likely you would get £7k INSTEAD of £5k.

Excellent price although worth saying a new A6 is due to be launched imminently so residuals will take a knock hence why the deeper discount. The deal is more for the scrappage allowance that not everyone will get.

I'm tempted to buy this deal :grin: