Great, I'm after an American style fridge freezer.........oh wait, its a PC? :disappointed:

Need to cut down on those roids mate; coming across as a bit of a **** in this thread

i5's are a waste of money now, you can get better for cheaper.

For that money, I'd want something that could run VR out of the box.

Great, I'm after an American style fridge freezer.........oh wait, its a PC? :disappointed:

Would make a savage looking fridge!

Oh it looks great visually... But spec wise it's dead

Lol, you are clearly very poorly informed about technology.

A prime example:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/7WQktJ

£456 without a GPU, and when GPU prices are back to normal, you have a machine thats a lot better, for the same money.

An RX 480 would make it a hot deal

No 1060s for 200 quid in current market

I don't understand why you can take that opinion, why is an i5 like the i5-7600K a waste of money and where can I get the performance cheaper?

Looks like an american style freezer

The i5 line-up is dead, 4cores 4threads for over £215 for the 7600k

Ryzen 1600 - with a cooler on Amazon - £188.99 - 6 cores, 12 threads.

When I can get something like this for £300 I'll bite, until then I'll stick to my laptop

And without an O/S, keyboard/mouse, Wifi etc.

For software that scales well sure but the i5 will dominate the Ryzen for all the software that only scales to 2 to 4 cores especially the K version which over-clocks.

Changed your tune I see. Well done.

What? I've always said this.

The only thing I will defend is the i7's.

Yes because clearly someone would buy this for 'software'

The i5 is dead. i7 and ryzen is the only things left worth purchasing.

The majority of games out there do not have multi-thread support. Yes the OS will sometimes spread the load over cores, but that is not the same thing. And you cant say that life will be better when we can buy video cards after the digi-coin mining ends because - it may never end.

If you only buy for the future then perhaps (currently) going the AMD path is better, but the future is never here.
Personally I buy what is best at the moment, but buying on thread count and cpu speed are both bad things to do.

The i5-6400 is a bit old, the 128gb SSD is a bit small, Personally I would be tempted to look closely at what your wanting to play, how does it do in benchmarks with this type of setup, and throw that at the offer to see what you think.

The system build cost listed earlier did not include a video card, operating system, optical drive, case (and power supply), card reader (the deal has it, if that matters), and a wireless network card (a gamer would NOT use wireless, but again meh, if it matters). So the parts listed earlier would need at least another £300 to get a pc with the same type of components as the one listed in the deal.

Your post is honestly quite awkward.

You effectively agreed with me, but then listed - OS, optical drive, a card reader, and then said I didn't include a case, or a power supply when I did? Also mentioning that the build I put doesn't have a GPU, why bother? I said that myself, stop being an idiot. Buying an i5 when you can get a 4core 8 thread ryzen for cheaper.. its nonsensical.

Are you blind? Plenty of games have multi-thread support and the evidence for that is overwhelming so you have no idea what you're talking about.

I bought a 1060 6GB for 212quid, can still get them for 230-240 so its not "breaking the bank" still, and can still fit into a build.

I just don't even see the point of your post.

A CPU without software is less useful than a handful of sand. You seem ignorant of how to choose a CPU, you buy the right one for the software you run and for your budget. Ryzen is generally a good option but not if your workload doesn't scale well beyond 4 cores like certain games.

Yep, I'm the ignorant one.

But sure, go ahead and buy an i5 yourself, or recommend it to others. Lol.

1. OP clearly was talking this machine as a gamer.
2. 99% of older games are fine on Ryzen now and have had updates.
3. i5's have absolutely ZERO future, and buying one now would be extremely stupid.

Need to cut down on those roids mate; coming across as a bit of a **** in this thread

You don't buy an i5 for the "future" you buy it to use now

Because all that software that only uses up to 4 cores is magically going to disappear all of a sudden. There's ZERO chance of that.

Lol.



Buying an i5 now is stupid, period. No more discussion about that.



You keep talking about this magical software, and you also keep talking as if Ryzen can't perform in the IPC department, just stop talking you're out of your depth you don't understand a thing about computer components as displayed in this thread.

Why do all these posts result in bickering like schoolchildren? No wonder pc gamers have poor stereotype images when stuff like this goes on. It's quite frankly pathetic

Are you a Trump supporter? How dare I disagree with you, I suppose all those reviews were fake news!
Ryzen is a great series of CPUs but it is still weaker than Intel's in many ways except for value for money.

My sons just bought this and set it up today! Super fast and super slick looking.

Amazon it. There are 1060 3GB versions for £190 and 1060 6GB versions for £220. They are coming down

If you make your living off an i5, you'd just buy an i7 - you won't find anyone worth their salt saying anything other than the i5 is obsolete now.



There are no brand new 1060 6 gb's on amazon for 220.



Btw, it's funny how the people thinking i5's are still okay money to buy, are the ones who have them, or seem to, at least. :smiley:

Salt has very little value nowadays, back in Roman times maybe, but not now. So I would tend to agree that the opinion that the i5 is obsolete is almost valueless.

Yeah I've heard that prices are pretty stupid for the 480. GTX 1070 would suffice

Here's one for £238 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01IA9FEOO/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1500188997&sr=8-17&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=1060+6gb

Also, it's amazing how you think i5s are useless. If you watch any sort of value for money videos, they usually say the i5s have just as much performance in them as i7s when it comes to games, with little effect on FPS going from the i5 7600K to the i7 7700K yet a significantly cheaper price point on the i5. Also, wouldn't personally go Ryzen right now on a gaming PC unless you want to drop all performance on sub-2016 games as optimisation for those games are non existent.

Gtx 1070 prices are also stupid and/or it is out of stock or on back order etc.

Keep showing you don't know anything, you're doing a good job.

Also, there is no good reviewer anywhere that says the i5's have just as much perf as the i7's, you're wrong, simply, stop replying.

You said £220 there are some, you're wrong, again.

Ever seen 'LinusTechTips' on YouTube? You'd understand a thing or two about gaming CPU's if you watched him.

Here's a similar viewpoint to mine from TomsHardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870-7.html

As you can see, there is about a 5% performance gain in Watch Dogs 2 and Metro, and that's against a significantly cheaper processor. You're insane to think an i5 is obsolete if you're simply building a gaming machine, because they give better performance / £ spent than any i7 does.

It takes one deal day for a £238 graphics card to go to £220. All you have to do is watch out for it

The £238 gpu is not even in stock, and they're on eBay selling for upto £320 right now.

Every single tech reviewer worth their salt, agrees that i5's are obsolete, they are now dead, useless, done. There is no need for them anymore.

Now lets look at some legit benchmarks: https://youtu.be/XylVCItVhS4?t=206

The i7 out performs on many of the games here, compared to the i5's.

Hardware Unboxed, Tech Deals - have all done videos on this too - also an i7 having higher minimum framerates than the i5's, just stop, you don't know ****.

Looking at the scores in that video, most of those FPS are into the 100's, way above what anyone building a low end gaming PC even needs. The differences don't look massive, and the 4.8GHz OC on the i5 looks to match an i7 stock on most accounts. You're saving £90 by getting the i5, and that could be the difference between a 1060 and a 1070 in terms of budgets. Mate, I work with gaming PC's all the bloody time. I know my stuff, and I know i5's are not 'obsolete' and are a decent alternative to people who can't afford to spend over £300 on a CPU (especially when buying a better GPU could drastically improve gaming performance rather than improving by 5-10 fps by bumping to a i7).

So now you're adding "anyone building a low end gaming pc" - honestly, you're an idiot. I can't even be bothered to talk to you anymore, you don't work "with gaming pc's all the time" because you don't know jack **** and are spouting outdated nonsense.

You also can't have watched much of the video if you think the 4.8 oc matches the i7 stock, lol, you're a joke peace.

It's amazing how mad someone can get when trying to disbelieve or discredit cold hard facts. Watch Assassins Creed, The Division, even Ashes which is highly CPU intensive. All show the i5 as pretty dam slick, keeping up with the i7 within a few frames difference. Crysis has its own engine which works well with multi-core threads, and The Witcher is one of the most CPU intensive games we know.

You call me an idiot for saying someone might actually want to build a system on a budget. The only idiotic one here is the one who thinks everyone has an unlimited budget, because if that was the case sure i5's would be obsolete because EVERYONE would have an i7 1080 ti machine. Saving £90 on a processor though is a massive saving, and gives very similar performance on games which only use a couple threads (which most ((90%)) do). Battlefield 1, Overwatch, Assassins Creed etc. The biggest games that most people play on a PC will run very similarly on the i5, which proves its worth in the world

https://youtu.be/WnIIlOF5D6U?t=419

Go back to bed now will ya.

Minimum frame rates in battlefield 1 are a prime example here, not to mention the avg framerate is higher in every single game.

It is also a well known fact, i5's are a lot less smoother than i7's for gaming, another source here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5yl8_OY0yc

I could go all day, you don't know ****.

I'm really not doubting the i7 is a better processor. It is. Is it £90 better? The video you linked me shows average frame rates of 10fps higher, or 7%. You're paying £90 for a smaller incremental FPS boost than lets say a 1060 vs 1070, where the frame rates are 25-35 fps higher. This is what I'm trying to say; sure the i7 is better, but it's not £90 better unless you can afford it

You are not reading anything I'm saying, I don't understand. LOOK AT THE MINIMUMS TOO M8.

Wow for half a second it went down to 100fps, jees my life is over. Ever thought that something else in the background hit the fps hard for that one millisecond? Minimums aren't something to fret over, the average FPS is the main one. Source for why minimum FPS is not to be trusted: http://www.pcgamer.com/why-minimum-fps-can-be-misleading/

The trend appears with 0.1% lows too, and 1% lows, you can go find this information yourself, but you don't want to, you're ignorant.

It's the same way Ryzen has better minimum frames, because of the extra cores/threads.

Just stop replying to me now, as they say, ignorance is bliss.

_get_out_of_here_

https://youtu.be/AUOtTEMn-RU?t=572

https://youtu.be/IDN7dFTNjkg?t=272

When he says best case scenareo on the CPU for Watch Dogs 2 and you still think it means every game:confused:

Honestly man, I'm not ignorant. I use a i7-6700K with a 1080 at home. I just don't see the i5 as a dead brand; it brings someone who can't justify spending £90 extra just to get higher frame rates in the select few games that support multi-threading (Watch Dogs 2 is one of a handful right now) into buying a gaming PC. I'd rather buy a i5 1060 combo than a i7 1050 combo any day, because there's such a big performance difference and its about the same price difference. If your budget is tight, that's the way I'd do it

If your budget is tight, you should be buying a Ryzen.

It's a tricky call for me. The i5 architechture has been around for several years and games performance is usually higher on the 7600K vs the 1600X (direct competitor), but performance benchmarks (non game) do show higher performance on the Ryzen so its a toss up really. Both would be real good processors and the differences are going to be minor

[/quote]It's a tricky call for me. The i5 architechture has been around for several years and games performance is usually higher on the 7600K vs the 1600X (direct competitor), but performance benchmarks (non game) do show higher performance on the Ryzen so its a toss up really. Both would be real good processors and the differences are going to be minor[/quote]
Shouldn't be a tricky call for anyone who knows anything about computers.

The 1600 performs the same as the 1600X when overclocked, comes with a cooler, eg saving more money for this budget you talk of.

Paired with 3200mhz ram, the game performance in 1440p, and 4k is the same, 1080p a SLIGHT dip in maximum framerate but higher minimums.

I did reply to you but the site is fekked hhhghdgfhdfsg

Mate, Linus isn't the place to get any information about anything anymore. He's a far cry from where he started.

Sold out bigtime.

This post was sponsored by KFC, Finger lickin chicken good. £0.50 with this referral link.

The argument in this thread is astounding. From the link somewhere shared below:

"The bottom line is this - outside of extremely poor optimisation, it takes something truly exceptional for a modern Core i5 K chip not to be able to run gameplay at a consistent 60fps (Crysis 3's jungle on very high will do it though - even on a 7600K clocked at 4.8GHz). In those scenarios, a Core i7 is required. And there are plenty of other use-case scenarios for an i7 too. If you're looking to move beyond 60fps - gaming on a high refresh rate monitor, for example - the fastest i7 you can afford is the way forward. If you're running an i5 of a certain vintage and you're running into CPU limitations, moving up to the fastest, most recent i7 that fits in your motherboard socket should be investigated before scrapping your system - something we've looked into in more depth in the past."

In short, if it's your max, an i5 will do fine (although I would look into an AMD like the 1600X if you can stretch your budget). If you really want to push games to the max, of course you're going to want to get an i7.

Not rocket science.

It's a tricky call for me. The i5 architechture has been around for several years and games performance is usually higher on the 7600K vs the 1600X (direct competitor), but performance benchmarks (non game) do show higher performance on the Ryzen so its a toss up really. Both would be real good processors and the differences are going to be minor[/quote]Shouldn't be a tricky call for anyone who knows anything about computers.
The 1600 performs the same as the 1600X when overclocked, comes with a cooler, eg saving more money for this budget you talk of.
Paired with 3200mhz ram, the game performance in 1440p, and 4k is the same, 1080p a SLIGHT dip in maximum framerate but higher minimums.[/quote]
Good luck getting the RAM to run at 3200mhz.

Shouldn't be a tricky call for anyone who knows anything about computers.
The 1600 performs the same as the 1600X when overclocked, comes with a cooler, eg saving more money for this budget you talk of.
Paired with 3200mhz ram, the game performance in 1440p, and 4k is the same, 1080p a SLIGHT dip in maximum framerate but higher minimums.[/quote]Good luck getting the RAM to run at 3200mhz.[/quote]

My friend purchased a Ryzen 1600X, 3466MHz ram, and a b350 msi board.

works at 4ghz, 3466mhz ram and no issues.

Just people don't know how to make the ram work, or buy the wrong ram, simple as that really. Stupid people buying stuff they have no idea about.

"Just people don't know how to make the ram work, or buy the wrong ram, simple as that really. Stupid people buying stuff they have no idea about.[/quote]"


I was thinking of getting this deal but the likes of ritchiedrama wan't helping me at. There was some constructive criticism by others but when a deal is posted, rather than slagging it off (ritchiedrama) How about finding an alternative for the same budget to help us out? Also take into account that although I drive a car I am not a mechanic which also means that if I want to use a computer I don't have to build one or as you put it "stupid people buying stuff they have no idea about"

"
I was thinking of getting this deal but the likes of ritchiedrama wan't helping me at. There was some constructive criticism by others but when a deal is posted, rather than slagging it off (ritchiedrama) How about finding an alternative for the same budget to help us out? Also take into account that although I drive a car I am not a mechanic which also means that if I want to use a computer I don't have to build one or as you put it "stupid people buying stuff they have no idea about" [/quote]

I posted an alternative, which took about 3 seconds to put together, if you had a budget - anyone can put it together for you, which would provide you with a lot more longevity than this machine.

Do not spend your hard earned money on this "deal".

I post because I don't want people to waste their money, simple.

I posted an alternative, which took about 3 seconds to put together, if you had a budget - anyone can put it together for you, which would provide you with a lot more longevity than this machine.
Do not spend your hard earned money on this "deal".
I post because I don't want people to waste their money, simple.[/quote]And I'm asking the question because I want a ready built computer regardless of what you think I want. I really really do not want to go down that road of building one myself

And I'm asking the question because I want a ready built computer regardless of what you think I want. I really really do not want to go down that road of building one myself[/quote]
And that's fine, i guess. I mean, building a computer is VERY easy, very fun and very rewarding and a good skill to have.

However, there are many places you can buy pre-builts, for a bit more money, but a lot more performance.

And that's fine, i guess. I mean, building a computer is VERY easy, very fun and very rewarding and a good skill to have.
However, there are many places you can buy pre-builts, for a bit more money, but a lot more performance.[/quote]
*insert magic, non-existent links to these places here*

Agreed

People like him are never wrong, just let him live in his little delusional world - I was just reading through the comments and it's quite clear has no idea what he is talking about, it's quite sad really.

Yep, and then lets look at your average life, 9-5'er lad.

Looking at Amazon they may be below £200 but they are all showing out of stock with 2-5 week lead times.(Mining digitial currency causing all mid range card to be out of stock.) I prefer 6gb memory on graphics. Long term thinking.

Note also there is no indication of what power supply this box has. With a 1060 you would be drawing 400 power in total. Probably 90 less with it's current GPU. Could this machine handle a 1060 card? What power supply does it have. Bet it's not a branded one.

Intel are still 8-9% ahead at gaming on a IPC basis. Albeit Ryzen are better value wise. At present quad core seems to be sweet spot for gaming. I do like the Ryzen chips in terms of future proofing. In this instance the Ryzen base clock for the 1600 is much higher albeit I think this intel chip could be overclocked to at least 4-4.2ghz. (Ryzen 1400 is more comparable). I prefer 1600 for the cores/threads) You are paying for intel on core graphics here which in a gaming machine would have little use.

I don't get the small SSD drive here. Also the memory here will be nothing special. The partpicker above show 3000mhz speed memory. I doubt this system would have anywhere near that. Albeit windows 10 would add £50-60 to this system cost. So £500 without the graphics. The graphics cards are about £140-150 on Amazon.

Overall I like prebuilding systems. The big downside to this at present is the crazy cost of graphics cards and lack of stock till August. This is putting me off building a new system. That and vega coming out soon. I may buy a 2nd hand system for 200-300 quid as a stop gap.

500W, might not be branded but enough to easily run any 1060. A 380 is a very powerful card in itself and needs a lot more power than most modern nvidia cards to run, so I'd be VERY surprised if it couldn't handle it. (ref https://support.hp.com/lamerica_nsc_carib-en/product/OMEN-by-HP-870-000-Desktop-PC-series/11084748/model/14040037/document/c05316319/ )



You're paying for a decent clocked i5 processor which can handle all games at at least low quality. Sure the onboard graphics adds value, but lets not take away the fact it is still competing well with these Ryzen processors, and better with games which haven't been optimised for Ryzen (which is most sub-2016 games).



The small SSD makes a massive difference in booting up Windows and opening basic applications like Google Chrome, Word etc. It makes it a really good all round machine, and is really needed in a modern day computer. It's 2133mhz DDR4 RAM, which is perfectly quick enough for everything. You won't notice much difference in higher clocked RAM.

Overall you just stated to me why this deal is actually pretty decent, because you can't even build it for much cheaper when adding the cost of building your own.. But the deal seems to be expired now as its OOS. The computer is awesome though (using it when typing this). It was a good buy and a decently priced machine :smile:

The deal is okay if you wanted a new build with no recycled parts. Personally I would probably change the spec and do my own build. The shortage of graphics cards at present is stopping me. I may buy an i5 system from a friend of mine for 200-300 quid or so. Undecided. If I go for a new system I will recycle my SSD, hard drive operating system and some other parts to save costs. Then go for a Ryzen 1600 with saved cash on GPU.

500 watt is okay but it's the quality of the PSU that can be more important. Voltages going the various rails can be more important. Still see no point in IGU on i5 if you are buying a decent graphics card. It's Intels IPC that gives it the advantage over Ryzen. If the only graphics were from the CPU then you might see Intel do better in certain areas. That and lack of driver support for a new architecture such as Ryzen. Intel has really dragged it's feet in terms of CPU lately. How many more 14nm iterations can they do??

120gb SSD is not huge. Maybe if just for windows it could be useful. SSD don't like continual saving of data. They are known for bad sectors. Albeit they do speed up windows load times. I have one on my old pc and it's mainly for windows. 240gb or so.