A few people here seem to be toying with the idea of using this as a Windows desktop. Take my advice, don’t!
I bought 3 of these a year ago (2 for the office and 1 for home). I’ve had an absolute nightmare getting Windows onto them (though I hear it can be done).

The problem is firmware updates. Try as I might I couldn’t get it to recognise and install Windows from either an installation CD or mounted via USB as an ISO. The problem is firmware. You need the driver for the B120i RAID controller for the bios to recognise the hard drives and allow installation of Windows. I tried Windows 7, Windows 10 (both unsupported, but apparently it can be done), Windows Server 2012 (supported but just plain refused to recognise the drive and install). The stumbling block proved to be HP forcing you to take out a support agreement to get access to the driver you need, thus defeating the point of buying a low-cost file server. After several days (nay weeks) of troubleshooting I gave up and installed Linux. The machine is now an expensive paperweight though as despite being able to connect to the shared drives over SSH, they show as empty.

Unless:
1. You’re got some solid Windows Server experience or
2. Enjoy spending days scratching your head over endless technical gotchas or
3. Are going the Linux route
then I’d avoid the ML10 V2 like the absolute plague, cashback or no cashback.

If you want this for a media share or a low-cost desktop you’re far, far better off building a system around a low-cost Intel I3 and saving yourself a world of pain.

Oh, and if someone is lucky/skilled enough and managed to get Windows running on this box and knows what I'm talking about, please, please PM me. I've scoured the web but found no answers. :disappointed:

Oh stop it.

It has dual NICs, HPE iLO and ECC RAM. The clock speed is fine for small workloads and is upgradeable to Xeon E3 if needed. It supports Server 2012, Ubuntu, Red Hat and VMWare. That makes it a server in my book.

Of course you wouldn't host a big workload on it! It's a single-socket 4U tower server, good for remote sites and corporate branch offices running file/print, web messaging, and small vertical applications or databases.

It's also good for home labs, so you can prototype configs and bone up on install variants - review here

Excellent value for those of us on a tight budget - and it should be ok for basic home desktops as well - just normally these machines have customer motherboards, small PSUs and limited upgradeability, but I haven't looked closely so happy to be corrected.

it still tickles me how they throw a celly in it and call it a server, thats just all kinds of wrong!

If the cashback works out this would make a pretty decent multi purpose machine for poostorm money.

Add some ram and a 460/1050 and someones got an half decent christmas present.

Have some heat

There's a review on the ebuyer page for the ML10 Gen9 that talks about transplanting the motherboard into another case. Seems to be due to concerns about the build quality of the case, but I agree it seems like an odd thing to do.

I don't know what you're looking at but both machines have 4 RAM slots and 4 internal 3.5" drive bays, although the HP, being taller, does have an extra 5.25" bay which could be purposed for additional drives (e.g. 2 x 2.5") if required. With some imagination you could stuff either full of velcro/tie-wrapped drives if you're desperate.

It's all a bit of a moot point anyway; there's plenty space in both for any realistic use, and if a huge amount of performant storage is a need then you're probably looking at the wrong solution with either of these two servers.

I can't see any reference to 're-casing' the T20 on eBuyer. Would seem a rather futile and expensive way of doing things. If you need a small server, just buy one? And if you do, why all the fretting about drive bays?

It shows 4 bays available on each? Also one of the comments on Ebuyer states that while you can transfer into a smaller case (which I would do) the headers are different and some other cables would be required, there is also only one RAM slot so although you can get more RAM it has to be a single stick, that and I'd not use either 32gb or 64gb. The processor is more 'future' proof for sure but I wonder how many hours and PITA messing around I'll have to do to get it to where I want it? I'd also need to buy DDR4 as opposed to just using a stick from my existing system.

Edit: The T20 looks like it may have to taken itself out the running anyway as it's case is bigger than I want so downsizing the existing setup looks the best option and that is the ML10 if I'm going through the processes

You make a good point to be fair.

This one?

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dell-poweredge-t20-intel-g3220-4gb-ram-500gb-hdd-mini-tower-server-delivery-ebuyer-2594521

Yes, I get that is a bit smaller and it comes with a (cheap/slow) HDD but has older & slower CPU/memory, it's more expensive than the HP (after cb) and will similarly be unable to be rehoused in a Microserver-size case.

The £20-odd you save buying the HP goes a fair way to buying a small SSD for the OS, hugely improving the responsiveness.

It's your money though :smiley:

Thanks for the feedback, however people talking about the Dell T20 has peaked my interest elsewhere anyway :-)

does the 4u aspect mean I can switch into a smaller case at a later date? want to upgrade my n54l but get the small shape again

Cashback approved today :smiley:

Amazon selling compatible 4gb ECC Ram for just over a tenner....bargain!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FSUOX6S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_JaayybD36FNJ0

Great, thanks very much for that. May well get one of these as a late Xmas pressie to myself 8-)

I've tried installing Ubuntu 16.04lts and Centos 7 16.11, both install (SATA drivers work), but the graphics are a bit off, making it very difficult to read the screen - I suspect there are later graphics drivers for the Intel HD Graphics 510 on the G4400, but I don't use Linux so haven't investigated the problem.

The HD Graphics 510 on the G4400 should do 4K @ 60Hz over Displayport 1.2, specs quote [email protected] as the maximum resolution, but I don't have any 4K displays to test this.

If you want to use this machine with an HDMI monitor, you'll need an active DP 1.2 -> HDMI adapter, I've found that this one from Amazon works.
However, it appears that the ML10 doesn't do sound over the DP/HDMI link, but I need to investigate further.

Thanks very much for the clarification. Any idea if mainstream Linux distros support the SATA controller? Also, do you know the max resolution the DPs will output? I'd like to know if it will do 4k without adding a dedicated graphics card.

TIA

OK, this is NOT an ML10 V2 (Gen8) it's the ML10 Gen9 a completely different machine. The ML10 Gen9 was only made available in April 2016. I've just received mine and installed Windows 10 Pro (2016-11 version) on it in from a USB stick in around 60 minutes - NO extra drivers are required, it recognises the USB, SATA (AHCI) and Ethernet ports OOTB, and resolves all the other system devices from Windows Update. So it's very straightforward to install Windows 10 onto.

However, there are a couple of caveats. The main one is that it only has DisplayPort V1.2 ports on it, and these require an active DP->HDMI dongle to convert to HDMI, the standard passive DP->HDMI dongles will NOT work. I did my install connected to a DisplayPort monitor. This active dongle from Amazon for around £10, works OK for video. The second caveat for desktop use is there is no separate sound hardware. I don't know if the machine supports sound over DisplayPort, and if that will work with an active DP to HDMI dongle (it doesn't on the Dell T20). A USB connected sound adapter can be had for a couple of quid if required.

So, bottom line, this works fine with Windows 10, however, there are a couple of things to watch out for hardware wise.

Ordered last night, arrived this morning and i selected free delivery. Great service.

Forgot to add, the RAID controller also doesn't support Linux, which HP helpfully omit in their tech specs on supported OS platforms.

A few people here seem to be toying with the idea of using this as a Windows desktop. Take my advice, don’t!
I bought 3 of these a year ago (2 for the office and 1 for home). I’ve had an absolute nightmare getting Windows onto them (though I hear it can be done).

The problem is firmware updates. Try as I might I couldn’t get it to recognise and install Windows from either an installation CD or mounted via USB as an ISO. The problem is firmware. You need the driver for the B120i RAID controller for the bios to recognise the hard drives and allow installation of Windows. I tried Windows 7, Windows 10 (both unsupported, but apparently it can be done), Windows Server 2012 (supported but just plain refused to recognise the drive and install). The stumbling block proved to be HP forcing you to take out a support agreement to get access to the driver you need, thus defeating the point of buying a low-cost file server. After several days (nay weeks) of troubleshooting I gave up and installed Linux. The machine is now an expensive paperweight though as despite being able to connect to the shared drives over SSH, they show as empty.

Unless:
1. You’re got some solid Windows Server experience or
2. Enjoy spending days scratching your head over endless technical gotchas or
3. Are going the Linux route
then I’d avoid the ML10 V2 like the absolute plague, cashback or no cashback.

If you want this for a media share or a low-cost desktop you’re far, far better off building a system around a low-cost Intel I3 and saving yourself a world of pain.

Oh, and if someone is lucky/skilled enough and managed to get Windows running on this box and knows what I'm talking about, please, please PM me. I've scoured the web but found no answers. :disappointed:

to be honest the gen8 can be a learning curve and hard work to get setup but head over to homeservershow forum and get some help. the drivers can be found by googling usually although this particular server seems to have been written off because the lenovo if you can get one or the t20 is the better bet

I'd imagine a megacorporation like HP churning out millions of units per year will be paying rather less for their components than you or I ordering stuff online for our next home build.

Odd, putting together some of the cheapest parts on ebuyer with 1151 motherboard (qf:727909), the same CPU (G4400) (qf:729181), with 4gb DDR4-2133 RAM (qf:722948), and it comes to £143 (with free delivery)!

And that's obviously without the PSU, HDD, or the chasis.

So it's pretty amazing they manage to sell this for £167 and still make a profit?!

Its £155 on here, no sure if you can claim cashback with them though:
https://www.comms-express.com/products/hpe-proliant-ml10-gen9-g4400-4gb-r-non-hot-plug-4lff-sata-300w-entry-svr/

Now at £165 for some reason.

Couple of questions that someone might be able to answer:

- What is the max resolution it can output from the display ports? Will it output at 4k?
- Does the onboard SATA controller support RAID?

TIA

Detailed specifications of the ML10 Gen9 range are on the link below, gives product codes for options etc
https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04922941.pdf
Search on 837826 (without the -421 ending) for more information on that specific model. Has a non hot plug drive cage so you just install/screw in drives inside the server (like most PCs) rather than slot loading (like most servers)
The included RAID controller can even do RAID 5 (if you have at least 3 drives) as well as the more common RAID 1 and RAID 0 options.

No you won't so long as you use the HP provided heatsink and fans etc. You will only lose warranty if you damage the motherboard/CPU socket when installing the CPU

It's got wheels, windows and seats. It must be a bus, right?

Whilst i agree most modern day SOHO servers don't have to have the same grunt of something more commercial a celeron is literally the last processor you'd want doing anything mission critical, so in that sense this is no more a server than my raspberry pi. Infact the only reason these are so popular with techies is that they are the next cheapest possible option to simply cobbling something together out of spare parts.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting this would make an excellent foundation for a hardcore gaming rig but theres certainly nothing stopping you from using this as a run-of-the-mill desktop with a certain amount of upgradability just as you would any other pc really.

As someone already stated servers are all about the uptime and support and less about what context the hardware is being used. If money was not a factor you wouldn't use a celeron in a server(or period tbh.) So it is what it is, a cheap pc.

Oh stop it.

It has dual NICs, HPE iLO and ECC RAM. The clock speed is fine for small workloads and is upgradeable to Xeon E3 if needed. It supports Server 2012, Ubuntu, Red Hat and VMWare. That makes it a server in my book.

Of course you wouldn't host a big workload on it! It's a single-socket 4U tower server, good for remote sites and corporate branch offices running file/print, web messaging, and small vertical applications or databases.

It's also good for home labs, so you can prototype configs and bone up on install variants - review here

Excellent value for those of us on a tight budget - and it should be ok for basic home desktops as well - just normally these machines have customer motherboards, small PSUs and limited upgradeability, but I haven't looked closely so happy to be corrected.

Indeed. This would run rings round the dual Xeon Poweredge that pretty much ran my last company for ten years until a few months ago in terms of CPU, memory latency/bandwidth etc. The HP would not be as good if used as a boat anchor though - that Dell was HEAVY.

In reality, at the low-end the thing that separates servers from desktop is the support, both in terms of SLAs/expectations, and in terms of support for monitoring and management tools.


Yes, for this one I believe you'll probably have to acquire the RAID driver prior to installing a desktop OS as this probably won't be supported out of the box by Windows 10

Anyone know how this compares to the HPE ProLiant MicroServer Gen8?

Price is now £167inc

For a small office/domestic file and print server, a celeron is plenty enough. Not every server has to be overloaded with Xeons. Still a server. The other thing you have to pay attention to is the firmware. The Neo equipped Microservers lacked an S3 state in the bios meaning that it couldn't go to sleep. You either had to hibernate, close the machine down when idling or keep it running 24/7. Fine for servers, not so much for desktops. I also have an ML5, which only had 8x PCIe bus lanes and whose firmware clocked any graphics card down automatically to x1, so not much use as a desktop for any sort of gaming.

I would be wary of recommending any HP server as a desktop replacement without checking the innards - including the onboard firmware.

Of course. The statement I made about them "calling it a server " was an ironic one. Theres nothing "server" about this. Its nothing more than a desktop... they just choose to refer to it as a server.

No "real server" would have any of this hardware, let alone a celeron processor, which is the complete opposite of what a "server" should be.

For example it would be no different walking into any car dealership and them promoting their cars as potential "Race" cars. Sure you could race them if you wanted but in reality they are just bog standard cars. So them referring to this as a "server" is nothing more than a suggestion of what you might choose to do with it. Given the hardware utilized its anything but a "server" in the traditional sense (its like calling a Nissan micra a formula 1 car.)

So rest assured, its nothing more than a quite well priced pre-built PC, no special hardware, and certainly NOT a "server."

There are always questions like this with cashback from HP, they don't help themselves with their website being incomplete/out of date and with their opaque tiers of partner.

Purchased something from these guys few years ago which turned out to be faulty on arrival.

Wouldnt accept return and kept fobbing me off to manufacturer. Repeatedly told me if I returned without authorisation they would charge a 20% restocking fee.

An absolute nightmare to deal with, turned into a 2 week long saga and only refunded me when I approached trading standards.

I left multiple reviews on trust pilot but everytime Ballicom managed to have it deleted by claiming I was not a customer.

Check Reviews.co.uk for feedback they cant delete.

Id avoid.

Is Ballicom an authorised HP partner though (needed for cashback)? Also nothing showing on the product page itself about the cashback offer compared with other resellers.

Awesome price with the cashback! :man:

Yes, Ballicom is an authorised HPE reseller.

really want this but ddr4 is putting me off I have 16gb ddr3 ecc in my hp gen8 that is retired due to being too noisy this would be ideal but don't want to buy ram is ddr4 cheap now I have ddr3 coming out of my ears so haven't looked into it

The main one is that you'll get no help from HP for use in "unsupported" applications. That means no driver support for Windows 10 (Only Windows Server 2012 / 2016 and some Linux variants). Having said that, I would expect Windows 10 to have drivers for most of the on-board hardware. There may also be issues with getting BIOS updates from HP (they sometimes restrict these to users with a maintenance agreement).

In that case I'm struggling to find 'the catch' and there's got to be one... Even before the cash back this seems a far better buy than any refurb I can find, with better mobo/cpu AND I can upgrade graphics and RAM cheaply and easily?

Certainly, TBH this server has more in common with standard consumer desktop construction than traditional tower servers. You'll need to add your own disk(s) and OS, and probably a DP to HDMI/DVI adapter. I use a Lenovo TS140 Thinkserver as my main desktop, and have built standard desktops using Dell T20s for friends.

True, it sounds a better prospect still than buying the already Xeon equipped version. As for warranty - it's a caveat yes but I'd still do it carefully and swap the chip back over in the event of a warranty claim :stuck_out_tongue:

it still tickles me how they throw a celly in it and call it a server, thats just all kinds of wrong!

If the cashback works out this would make a pretty decent multi purpose machine for poostorm money.

Add some ram and a 460/1050 and someones got an half decent christmas present.

Have some heat

Adding your own E3 1200 V5 CPU will add another £200+ to the price - still cheaper than buying the HPE Xeon equipped ML10s though you will lose your warranty.

cheap

Does ML10 unofficially supports non-ecc RAM like Dell T20 or Lenovo TS140?

It's a good price so heat from me. I'd personally stick to a Xeon based ML10 though.

In fact I've 3 of the previous gen ML10s with ECC memory and half decent 7200rpm drives - they make great VMWare servers.

Must. Resist. Buying. Another.

I have a Microserver G9 but tempted to change!