For anyone trying to sell anything on eBay know this:
PayPal/eBay will always side with the Buyer and screw over the seller.

I got scammed by some guy last month, he bought something new and working, then returned it claiming it was faulty. Knowing how biased eBay was, I took loads of photos and even a Video of me packaging the item... When the item was returned i made an unboxing video in which it was fairly clear that he had tampered with (replaced components) and used the item then factory reset it and sent it back. When I received it, it clearly didn't have the fault he described.
In total I had 3.5Gb worth of Photos and Videos. And even made a PDF showing clearly the difference between what I sent and what I received returned, with clear references to the photos/videos. In the messages I received from the buyer, he even contradicted himself about the fault. He first said one issue as a fault, then changed the issue into a completely different one in the next message, an issue that is paradoxical... Unintentionally saying he managed to use a feature of this item that is physically impossible to even access with that fault he described..

What does PayPal do? They don't even look at the photos or videos... They request an Unbiased 3rd Party Document confirming the buyer is at fault. They also said that even if I am found to be correct, they would not reimburse me for the cost of getting such document...


In the end, I was lucky because I contacted the manufacturer who was nice enough to spend their time and money helping me and eventually made this said document... You're guessing now that the Buyer is proven of fraud or what not, he would be the one to pay for it.

NOPE. PayPal still refunds him, then simply reimburses me 99% for the damages caused to the item sold... Even though I got to keep the item that was returned it has no value since components in it were swapped, it is used, and totally bricked because only the Buyer has the Activation code to it, which even the manufacturer is not able to disclose to me given that I now have it.

If there is one thing that you take away from this. DON'T EVER SELL ANYTHING ON eBay IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO GET SCAMMED!!!!

It doesn't really have anything to do with that. Paypal themselves (or Telus) are footing the bill for this. It really doesn't affect sellers in any way, because literally nothing is changing on their end of the transaction. The buyer is just getting their return postage paid for, with everything else proceeding normally. I don't get the fuss. The single and only way it could affect any seller is if somebody returns something that they otherwise wouldn't have bothered sending back, because return postage would have made it not worth their while due to an item's low value. I don't see that as an inherent negative either. I've had quite a few faulty things over the years that only cost a few quid and had to basically just write the money off, because it'd cost as much (or more) to return it as I'd get from a refund.

As a pro seller on eBay voting cold. How about refunding the wasted postage costs paid by us too not to mention time and messed up goods

Considering seller should pay postage if item is bad/not as advertised, etc this will only benefit people who want to return items for no reason just to be annoying to seller.

heat added :smiley:

Shop with PayPal and if what arrives isn’t quite cutting the mustard, you can return it on us.

Activate this service for free and we'll cover up to £15 of return shipping costs for up to 4 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 31 December 2016.

Pay with PayPal.
To opt in to Return Shipping on Us, activate your account. Offer applies to eligible PayPal purchases on or after 4 April 2016.* Save your PayPal receipt.
2
Send something back.
Save proof of your return. We’ll refund up to £15 of return shipping costs for each claim, for up to 4 claims per person until 31 December 2016.
3
Request a refund
Visit the refund request page to file your claim within 14 days of the return ship date.

Get your refund.
If your claim is approved, we’ll send a refund to your PayPal account within 10 business days.*

it's been this for some time now, they extended it from 31st August I think it was

They rejected mine as I was a few days outside of the return period. Rules are rules I suspose but still annoying!

I'm reluctantly adding warmth but strictly speaking this is not a deal.. So please move it.

Kind regards.

I'll get my coat..

So if you bought an item with Free P&P but it needs to be returned, and it'll cost £10 to return, Paypal will reimburse you?

It's a very lengthy process though they want screenshots of everything

Not great from a seller's perspective.

:disappointed:

What happens are 31 Dec? You have to pay for returns?

Considering seller should pay postage if item is bad/not as advertised, etc this will only benefit people who want to return items for no reason just to be annoying to seller.

Awful. Paypal buyers have more than enough "protection".

Paypal truly making selling a nightmare experience.

eBay/Paypal have a monopoly, too biased towards buyers

As a pro seller on eBay voting cold. How about refunding the wasted postage costs paid by us too not to mention time and messed up goods

So from a sellers perspective, what happens then if a buyer returns the item using this deal? Do Paypal just take the entire funds out of your account? Or can the seller process a 'partial refund', which should be the payment value MINUS the postage it cost to send to the buyer

Sellers beware.

wtf :confused: dont know if hot or cold :laughing:

As an eBay seller, it's time to lube up!

Perfect! Sent something back today glad I saw this. Many thanks!

As someone who doesn't buy on eBay that often, a quick question. I'm bidding for something that seems almost too good to be true. Still rather expensive ~£1000. The seller has stated "no returns accepted". If it turns out to be a duff, and I've paid by PayPal can I make a claim for a refund?

I did this a few months back and never heard anything back from PayPal one way or the other...hmm.

Please don't just out and out abuse this as they won't keep doing it

Does this work with eBay ?

Do I need to return it using Paypal or can I do it with royal mail? Does it have to be done through their website, as in when you return on Ebay, they have that page to purchase return postage? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I have something to return tomorrow, and want to make sure I do it right!

Does anyone know how to activate this? I have to send back a clothes bundle due to the quality being awful, I am 39 weeks pregnant, believe me if I didn't have to I wouldn't. I'm not trying to scam the seller in any way but am not happy with the product at all, so I think this is a good thing as altogether I would have spent over £10 postage for not fit for purpose goods.

For anyone trying to sell anything on eBay know this:
PayPal/eBay will always side with the Buyer and screw over the seller.

I got scammed by some guy last month, he bought something new and working, then returned it claiming it was faulty. Knowing how biased eBay was, I took loads of photos and even a Video of me packaging the item... When the item was returned i made an unboxing video in which it was fairly clear that he had tampered with (replaced components) and used the item then factory reset it and sent it back. When I received it, it clearly didn't have the fault he described.
In total I had 3.5Gb worth of Photos and Videos. And even made a PDF showing clearly the difference between what I sent and what I received returned, with clear references to the photos/videos. In the messages I received from the buyer, he even contradicted himself about the fault. He first said one issue as a fault, then changed the issue into a completely different one in the next message, an issue that is paradoxical... Unintentionally saying he managed to use a feature of this item that is physically impossible to even access with that fault he described..

What does PayPal do? They don't even look at the photos or videos... They request an Unbiased 3rd Party Document confirming the buyer is at fault. They also said that even if I am found to be correct, they would not reimburse me for the cost of getting such document...


In the end, I was lucky because I contacted the manufacturer who was nice enough to spend their time and money helping me and eventually made this said document... You're guessing now that the Buyer is proven of fraud or what not, he would be the one to pay for it.

NOPE. PayPal still refunds him, then simply reimburses me 99% for the damages caused to the item sold... Even though I got to keep the item that was returned it has no value since components in it were swapped, it is used, and totally bricked because only the Buyer has the Activation code to it, which even the manufacturer is not able to disclose to me given that I now have it.

If there is one thing that you take away from this. DON'T EVER SELL ANYTHING ON eBay IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO GET SCAMMED!!!!

So if I sell something on eBay in good faith and the buyer thinks I don't want it for any reason, they can return it to me for a full refund. Something not right here, surely.

Not sure I get your drift. I list something on eBay that is something I have used, or used, and buyer thinks it does not suit when it arrives!!! Beam me up Scotty. Think I'll sell elsewhere.

been 'scammed' on buying and selling, and heard many stories (friends and family). But have had plenty of problems from individual sellers to.

Just went to activate on my account and it said I had already activated it in April and was valid until 31st December.
Don't recall activating before, so thanks for the reminder, may come in useful heading towards Christmas. -
Heat Added

Hey do this anyways if you got an issue and call them

Scamtastic!

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, however they don't always side with the Buyer, i had 2 just recently where i won, and many in the past.

The 2 i won

1) Sold PS4 game and sent it recorded delivery, tracking showed refused deliver, 2 weeks later a case was opened. Called them up and they closed the case instantly in my favour.

2) Unauthorized transaction opened against me for another PS4 game, provided proof of postage and case closed in my favour.

Proof of postage as in proof of delivery? Standard proof of postage doesn't give you anything really.

Proof of postage is all that is required for Unauthorized transactions, proof of delivery only required for 'not received' cases.

I did have proof of delivery also, but it's irrelevant here

What do you mean by unauthorised transaction? Someone bid, paid, and then said they didn't?

Yeah, pretty much...

I would assume a family member got hold of his/her parents card or account without permission, seems to happen a lot with games.

eBay **** themselves now Facebook etc have their own selling sections

About time too.

Yeah, there is also an app or company (forget the name) that will convert your eBay auctions to Facebook

Try disputing an item not as described claim and then you'll know what I'm on about...

Someone should post a HUKD deal for hot to get a new item for free by replacing with your old broken one. Just buy it on eBay and return as item not as described.

I know what you're 'on about' , been an ebay member since the 90's - and i have both filed and fought a SNAD case a few times during this period.

It was that you stated 'always' so i was just adding that it's not 'always' the case.

If the buyer isn't happy with an item, or is an out and out scammer, i agree it is hard to win a case, but not impossible.

Furthermore you are now able to report a buyer if they have pulled a fast one, eBay keep track of this stuff now. Which may not be the best result for you, but it's something at least

One thing that sounds amiss is the fact that you recorded the packing and opening of the returning item, i can't help but feel some part of the story is missing? I have never felt the need to film anything, but if the item is commonly available, you can easily make the video afterwards with the same product. How can you prove when the recording was made? just saying :smiley:

Well, I'm intrigued even if no one else is - what on earth is the item?!

It only takes a few seconds to take out your phone, press record, and put it down somewhere. so why not do it. The item i sold was fairly expensive to me... After the messages he sent me, it was fairly clear that he was scamming me. The item I sold is a fairly specialised piece of kit, it did not even need any videos or photos to prove anything because it requires activation via registration on the manufacturers website, which is only possible if what he said about its fault is false, meaning he was trying to return it under false pretences. And yes I could tell that he activated it after talking to the manufacturer. Did ebay care about that? no.
Did the buyer have to prove that the item was faulty? no.
Could I prove that the item was not faulty without it being returned to me? yes.
Did eBay care? no.

If anyone one ever gets scammed out of something expensive. dont even bother arguing with paypal. go straight to the police.

Encouraging people to return goods just encourages scammers and overly picky(or unreasonable) buyers and discourages sellers. They are just creating a scam culture here and then they wonder why sellers are put off. Then they have to keep coming up with added incentives to encourage people to sell more. Like reduced fees.

I rarely sell on ebay anymore as its a load of hassle when the buyer gets difficult. If you buy secondhand goods there is a risk factor you should soak up. Cant expect it to be perfect like new. Even if its an electrical item you should be aware that it could conk out at any time like any 2ndhand appliance can. Thats a risk you take not buying new.

thank you as may have potentially saved me £12.98 return fee on a jacket for my son that did not fit

Think you will find that's a business cost. As a buyer your paying for the item and the service. As you would in a shop

Well, I'm intrigued even if no one else is - what on earth is the item?!

Except if the item is faulty and your seller is an @rse. Which is exactly the scenario I would want to be covered for and was not when i tried to invoke the 'free returns on us' total BS.

What if you bought the item before you activated the offer? Can you still get the return refunded?

Issue is that many people selling on ebay are not business's. It's not worth the effort of these sellers to sell on ebay and then get goods returned (goods that don't match the description should be returned on that basis).

Typically the price charged by such sellers for the items does'nt cover the hassle of getting an item back. If ebay wants to make this standard then private sellers will just add 10-30% to the selling price to cover. Then it will be much harder to get good or even reasonable deals on ebay from private sellers. Also by sending a 2nd time there is increased risk of damage to the item.

All in all better to just stop temporarily selling on ebay until this has been removed.

Hi I have returned something today to a selller, i cant workout how do i apply for refund of postage from paypal? I cant see any option on paypal web site, i have proof of postage and email confirmation from seller.

Any help?

Thanks for suggestion, now i know where i can sell/buy my faulty hdd.

13 quid to return a jacket - are you having a laugh?

that's what i thought but it was a leather 1 and I've got the receipt to prove it

Something similar happened to me too in 2013 I think. I sold a Nintendo 3DS with 34 games. The buyer then said all 34 games does not work. The buyer opened a case and returned the 3DS. And oh my, the state of it felt like it was used by someone with the greasiest arms ever.

I tried the games and all of them worked. SO I just began thinking the buyer just wanted to return it because he did not like it.

That's right. And you the seller cant do anything about it.

Jesus, sorry to hear that. I don't use eBay as a seller any more. The fees are ridiculous and paypal doesn't even ask any questions and just sides with the buyer at all times.

If there is nothing wrong with the item being returned you shouldn't have to refund the p&p from the sale, as long as you actually put a p&p charge up and didn't do free delivery. The buyer should only get the item price refunded in which case you still have their money for your own shipping costs. It's only their own return shipping costs that they get to claim from paypal.

I've just ditched eBay altogether from a sellers point of view. I've had an account for 10 years and over 300 transactions had 100% positive feedback. I listed a game which was described as "like new but opened" (something to that effect) and in the description stated twice "this item is not sealed", with pictures backing this up. I sold the game and a few days later get negative feedback for 'lying about the condition' - no correspondence from the buyer or request for a refund at all. Contacted eBay and after a hassle they removed the guys comment...by that I mean they blanked it out, it absolute,y nothing about the feedback. So now my 10+ year account has 98% feedback because 1 transaction out of 300 was irresponsibly and unjustly marked negative. After that I just blew the whole selling side off, it just is not worth it. Scammers, time wasters and general ***** just make it a complete no go area now.

Sort of sums up ebay; rather than buyer beware its seller beware...

Now on top of all that your buyer can return for no reason at all..........

I thought that was an interesting development. Facbook has the clout to be a serious competitor to ebay....

This isn't an eBay rule though, it's DSR laws and only applies to business sellers

yes but does'nt the ebay offer now apply to private sellers as well now if the buyer uses paypal?

There is another thing you can take away from this: people are ****

Or, take all that evidence, put it in a letter to eBay's UK office (I can't remember the address off the top of my head, it's in Richmond I think) that you will take them to the Small Claims Court and if that doesn't get the response you require, then actually follow through with it. They won't want this; you'll get a nice letter saying that 'while they don't agree or disagree, they don't believe in unnecessary and drawn-out litigation' and will offer to pay your costs (within reason) and court fees.

We had a buyer, who I am perfectly happy to name and shame I should add, who bought two iPhone 6 handsets and claimed we sent a brick. Despite actually having private investigators involved and showing a house brick having a weight of 1.5kg and the parcel was under 1kg, they didn't care until the threat of legal action.

now it makes sense... just had someone returning an item as they bought it 'by accident'! not sure how you can get it wrong especially when they bought it from me before? the thing was they chose guaranteed next day delivery that cost me £20 and now they are happy to return - what ebay says is sorry to hear that lol sh*t happens, your loss!

Sold a Samsung S6 on ebay, stating no returns. Buyer contacted me saying "they had took professional advice, and it was fake phone!" and wanted return/refund. Sensing a scam, I contacted ebay/paypal, who after a lot of messing about, sided with me and closed the case, so not always with buyers, although it was a lot of hassle and had to wait for ages for money.

Speaking from an eBay buyer's perspective..

Last year I was looking to replace my and my wife's phones. Stupidly, I thought I might find some good buys on eBay..

I only buy on eBay from those with very good feedback. Even so, last year..

1. I bought an iPhone 6 and received an iPhone shaped package, inside were two blocks of wood.

2. From another seller I received an iPhone 6 box, with charging cable, earbuds and wall plug, but no iPhone.

3. From another seller I received nothing.

4. From a fourth seller I received an emailed tracking number and an emailed photo of a 'shopped Post Office receipt, but nothing else.

I video recorded every package received, showing it sealed then showing me opening it, proving that what's inside is as I've received it - no tampering. Even so, in the case of number 2 (above), eBay wanted me to file a police report detailing everything, only then would they give me a refund. Two weeks later, they removed the negative feedback I'd left for the seller and repaid to the seller the money I'd originally paid (but let me keep the eBay refund - hence eBay were out of pocket as they'd paid the seller and refunded me), then eBay emailed me to say the seller has proven they sent me the iPhone and that my account is now on alert for any future purchases I make! So, apparently I'M the scammer?!

eBay is an absolute farce. I rarely use it anymore. Certainly not for high value items. Definitely not worth the hassle.

heat added.

Admire your perservance. Good tip to video the opening of the box; ideally video receipt but that's much harder.

If you have chosen to accept returns on your listing as a private seller then yes

Private sellers do not have to accept returns unless the item is faulty - in which case they (the buyer) get free returns anyway and the seller will need to pay for this return, paypal won't.

So those complaining about this deal don't seem to realise that this affects nothing for a potential scammer and only applies to business sellers.

That makes sense; tks.

REally sorry to hear, I've had a similar story as a buyer from seller eSmart aka ememoryman and various other names. Despite proving to eBay he sent me a faulty item (memory) and as I found out had a history of doing this. Even asked me to return it abroad hoping I would not pay international postage. I did argue he had a UK address on payment so why abroad. PayPal sided with its parent company eBay and refused to give me a refund. Item was £40-odd, spent over £60 trying to sort it out and both Paypal and eBay were complete ****s. Paypal also added that although I had proof from Royal Mail that he received the item, they needed me to post the proof to them and not rely on the Royal Mail website for recorded delivery. It was a complete shambles.

It does happen both ways. What you did with videos, etc should have been more than enough proof. It really seems to me if they do not have a lot of business from you they are prepared to screw you over.

I'm with you. Ebay/Paypal nowdays is terrible to sellers. If you are an Ebay seller prepare to deal with some ridiculous ****.

It's definitely worse for sellers, you can't even leave a buyer negative feedback to warn others any more.

It's so easy to buy something and then send a totally different or broken item back and get a full refund it's ridiculous.

To be honest I don't get trouble all that often but when it does come it's pretty frustrating.

I have won a few cases too but only when the buyer has obviously been taking the mick beyond all reasonable doubt such as when I sold a camera lens and out of the 8 photos 1 photo showed it attatched to a camera just for demonstration with the caption "camera not included". The buyer opened a case claiming he didn't get his camera which was a joke because besides the caption the item was listed as a lens and in the lens category and there was no mention of a camera at all so he was supposedly expecting a unknown brand camera with unknown specifications etc etc. That one got instantly decided in my favour!

Hi all. Just a few questions please:

1. Will this work work with any shopping website that accepts PayPal rather than EBay alone?

2. Do you have to send the item back via Royal Mail recorded delivery/signed for delivery or will Royal Mail standard post (with a receipt of posting) suffice?

Thanks in advance

Just experienced it myself and am now £25 out of pocket and a whole lot of time wasted. Totally agree. Unless you want to lose your product and/or money don't sell on eBay. why do you think all these selling fees offers are showing up on hukd off late.

I bought some shoes from Sport pursuit, which when they arrived did not fit.
Having paid by PayPal, I claimed the return postage in accordance with the instructions.
I was then asked innumerable times for additional information, photographs of the return labels yet again, and on and on it went.
Eventually, I did receive a refund, but unless the return cost is huge, to be honest it's simply more trouble than its worth.

I was scammed by ebay. Sold perfectly 100% Gillette razor blades on ebay, but Proctor & Gamble (the manufacturer) dont like you selling their products, even if unwanted. So told ebay it was counterfeit without even seeing it, ebay then told the buyer, who demanded a return & refund. I told ebay that it was P&G sharp practice, but ebay not interested- the 'rights holder' is always right, blah, blah. ebay massively biased against sellers. Sell elsewhere.

Good suggestion, thanks.

They can afford it, they scam the sellers 10% on postage. How did they ever get away with that?

Hi. Anyone managed to get the postage refund? I have been waiting for mine for 7 days but not even a response from Paypal.

This return (accentive)is in no way good for any seller has the scammers will be out to make sure use this to their advantage.
Ebay is getting worse,at one time you could see any negative a buyer would receive if was out for the wrong reasons to take the p***,
Remember a buyer after nearly two weeks opened a case stating did not receive their package total of 9.99
,cos don't put tracking up they thought would have thrown proof but keep.
Went onto royal mail website and checked,they signed so copied and pasted it.Left until time was up so case was closed.
went into their feedback and noticed quite a few ppl were being left negative feedbacks by this one inc myself who had 100% before this idiot had her way.
Some times do believe another seller out to destroy another business
Just lately noticing with the packages sent off tracked,they are getting intouch saying have not received but yet it stats on RM left a card,can phone to have redelivered,hoping will refund then collect after.Had one do this a couple of weeks back in end had item return and the case closed in my favour.
Ebay/paypal are making it to easy for scammers to get away with cheating the system and don't give a f*** bout the sellers who pay high fees,ending fees and on top paypal fees.
After xmas going else where,they are jokes now

Thanks op.
Got something faulty going back to China (Gearbest)

what a shower of **** they don't return your emails at all i have reported this to paypal thought it was a bit too good to be true

I must be the only person that has a positive outlook on ebay, never had a problem in the 10 years i have sold and bought stuff not one issue, i would never buy anything that expensive on there tho

​same here never had any problem.

yaa.agree

It's no accident eBay is bad for sellers - there was an intentional skewing of the balance back in 2008 when John Donahoe became eBay CEO.

This skewing was designed to deter individuals and foster a business trader retail marketplace closer to the Amazon model.

I think the strategy now for sellers who want to avoid risk is avoid problem categories (mobile phones, games etc). A Kenwood chef attachment is likely to draw less attention from scammers than an iPhone! Be explicitly clear and use deterrents where possible, but ultimately there is a risk to anything you sell.

There was a time when selling through eBay was a stress free affair!

Just went through the Paypal free returns.

I ordered the PS4 game World of Final Fantasy Day One edition and SimplyGames.com sent loads of people including myself the regular edition instead (and deleted the tweets at them about it). They eventually agreed to a return but didn't want to pay the £7 or so delivery charge so I filled in the form and sent it off. It was fairly simple, requiring a photo and tracking information.

I didn't hear back within 5 working days as they promised, so about 8 working days on I followed up. The next day they sent me a payment for the delivery cost.

I received a faulty item from the seller and have to return as the repair cost will be more than the price of the item. This offer will help me with the return postage.
Thanks OP.

thanks for the info, I also make a claim over a week ago so it's almost 8 working days for me now and I haven't heard back anything from them.

I dont like ebay any more than anyone else, but what is the alternative? Along with Paypal, they have a monopoly, so have free license to behave how they want!

I asked for suggestions earlier but none with forthcoming.

For face to face sales gumtree or preloved. Gumtree is owned by Ebay I think. :neutral_face:

You can use forums for certain items, eg AVForums, or here.

More interesting for committed sellers, seems Facebook are going to be challenging eBays model.