COLD - another nail in the coffin for sellers.

Example, I've sold my playstation 3 for an excellent price while the 50% discount was on. Now at any point said buyer can just "change his mind" and post the thing back to me, or maybe do a "hotukdealer" and return it because he's got his hands on a cheaper one.

Nothing lost for the buyer, The seller then gets his used item back perhaps in a worse condition, loses the initial POSTAGE on it and then has to resell (perhaps at a fraction of the price)

Yep....great deal.

This should be standard for goods that don't fit the description of the sales contract or our faulty/DOA/incomplete all year long and for those who simply change their mind they should pay return postage. Basically if the supplier is at fault they should pay return costs but if the buyer is at fault (change of mind) they should pay and forfeit initial delivery costs too. That would be fair to everyone. I wish both Ebay and Paypal would get their heads around this.

Great for buyers, rubbish for sellers.

Especially for those of us who just sell the odd bit here and there. There's nothing to stop some fussy buyer buying one of my daughter's grown out of, but still perfect dresses and deciding when it arrives they don't actually fancy the colour after all!

Before this they would have thought twice about wasting everyone's time and money if they weren't sure but not now, this just makes it easy for them to mess sellers about. Imo! :disappointed:

HEAT! Exceptional deal! Could be particularly useful for people who are considering taking a risk on Chinese phones from the likes of Gearbest - now, if something DOES go wrong with the phone, or it's DOA and you're forced to send it back to China for a refund, the return shipping charges won't be so hard to swallow.

TIP: If you sign into your Paypal account first, and then click back through to this offer through the HUKD page, it gives the amount as £15 (not euros).

Thanks. Mine says €15 not £15.

HEAT! Exceptional deal! Could be particularly useful for people who are considering taking a risk on Chinese phones from the likes of Gearbest - now, if something DOES go wrong with the phone, or it's DOA and you're forced to send it back to China for a refund, the return shipping charges won't be so hard to swallow.

TIP: If you sign into your Paypal account first, and then click back through to this offer through the HUKD page, it gives the amount as £15 (not euros).

Could come in handy if I order some usb leads that claim to support fast charging, then as usual when I try them they don't.

When can I use PayPal Refunded Returns service?
You are registered with PayPal as an holder of a PayPal account resident in Czech Republic, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Malta and Portugal and your PayPal account is not suspended or limited;

thanks for this info, heated!

great deal. thanks.

This should be standard for goods that don't fit the description of the sales contract or our faulty/DOA/incomplete all year long and for those who simply change their mind they should pay return postage. Basically if the supplier is at fault they should pay return costs but if the buyer is at fault (change of mind) they should pay and forfeit initial delivery costs too. That would be fair to everyone. I wish both Ebay and Paypal would get their heads around this.

UK/GB link is here : https://www.paypal.com/gb/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

Is the £15 limit on purchases or postage? How much is tracked postage to China?

voted hot

Edit: Just seen that the £15 is towards shipping costs
"Activate this service for free and we'll cover up to £15 of return shipping costs for up to 4 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 31 August 2016."

Agreed - but whenever I have been asked to pay to return a (heavy) faulty item, I contact Ebay and hassle them - they eventually agree to cover the return cost and issue a prepaid label etc. Bit of hassle - so only bother for heavier items.

It's valid for UK too (https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns/general-conditions), I got an email about the free £15 returns for a UK account.

Great Thanks for that - Voted Hot now

It's activated fine on my account, also...

The Service in only available to holders of a UK PayPal account whose access has not been suspended or limited;

Great deal thanks a lot!

Parent company Ebay is doing this as people don't use them anymore

Better to buy stuff on eBay as a 'guest' and use your credit card. Even though Section 75 covers over £100, CC companies will not quibble over anything under £100 (from experience).

Thank you so much for the helpful note!

deal saved and to use when needed. thx

Great for buyers, rubbish for sellers.

Especially for those of us who just sell the odd bit here and there. There's nothing to stop some fussy buyer buying one of my daughter's grown out of, but still perfect dresses and deciding when it arrives they don't actually fancy the colour after all!

Before this they would have thought twice about wasting everyone's time and money if they weren't sure but not now, this just makes it easy for them to mess sellers about. Imo! :disappointed:

COLD - another nail in the coffin for sellers.

Example, I've sold my playstation 3 for an excellent price while the 50% discount was on. Now at any point said buyer can just "change his mind" and post the thing back to me, or maybe do a "hotukdealer" and return it because he's got his hands on a cheaper one.

Nothing lost for the buyer, The seller then gets his used item back perhaps in a worse condition, loses the initial POSTAGE on it and then has to resell (perhaps at a fraction of the price)

Yep....great deal.

Nice, thanks OP!

Super hot, thanks OP.

Ive just bought a stonking great TV stand. Could be very handy.
Any idea why its not showing? Is it on the homescreen when you log in?

I should add that if it turns up undamaged and with all required parts i wont be returning it willy nilly.
Have now followed link and activated.

Why are sellers moaning? This is great for buyers who get conned on eBay (or from china for example).

Super hot!

Cheers OP.

this is bad for us sellers on ebay

Thanks OP, added to my Paypal account ok :smiley:

I've read the t&cs but couldn't see this mentioned

Does the seller have to offer a full refund including the original postage? If the item is faulty that's not an issue but if the buyer changes mind then that's not the sellers fault, so they shouldn't lose out on the postage costs already paid out

Thanks OP. Just activated it.. Heat added

Thank you OP. This is very useful.

Paypal, all for the buyer. Forget about the seller...

What if the seller does not accept returns? I want to list a lot of clothes but don't want buyers returning them!

The problem is this:

Buyer says it is broken, I want refund. Raises a claim.
Seller says it is fine (or receives it and says it's fine).
Ebay/Paypal sides with buyer. Always.

Just goes to show. You can't trust the people

Agreed in case of dispute PayPal always sides with the buyer, that's why I never sell anything of value on eBay anymore, too much hassle.

eBay knows as long as buyers are happy, sellers will keep on coming to the platform.

Activated!
Thanks OP

It's also why they removed the ability for sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers.

A while back there was one guy who bid up a rare item I was selling so it went for stupid money. When it came to paying time he started making all sorts of excuses for not being able to pay straight away. In the meantime he listed his item (surprise, it was the same thing) and in the listing was linking to my listing to demonstrate how much they were selling for, so his sold for good money. He never paid and I had to wait for the whole ebay processes to complete before I could get my final value fee back and re-list.

Another buyer of my old iPhone 4 wanted a refund as he didn't realise that the latest IOS version wasn't compatible. It came back badly scratched. Lo-behold, eBay sided with the buyer.

But thanks to eBay, no one will ever know who they were. Apparently, there are NO bad buyers on eBay, at all.

Sale of Goods Act will not protect you for any purchases made now though :wink:

So how does this work together with the Ebay 'No Returns Accepted' tickbox a seller can use in a listing?

Why should we have to claim this, it should be automatically activated. They seem to do anything to tempt people to buy now. Shame I would never use this for eBay :wink:

Absolutely brilliant deal - thank you so much for posting!!!

Cheers Derky' pretty handy to know.

I hope ebay are reading this and catch up on you. Claiming non-receipt is 100% fraud. Just because there is no tracking, is no excuse to defraud the seller. We can safely assume that you have claimed non receipt to UK sellers too!

I'm guessing GearBest will stop taking Paypal very shortly.........

:wink:

And sending fake items or "not as described" is 100% fraud as well. I believe in fairness, and would never defraud honest sellers (I used to be one!).

Negative feedback for the buyer was a tricky situation, I remember back then when it was allowed some sellers would blackmail you if you left them negative feedback (used to be called retaliatory feedback).

Selling a high value fashion item on Ebay I had the feeling a scam was coming when the buyer tried to switch delivery address after paying. I refused and offered an immediate refund. Buyer insisted on delivery so I cancelled sale from my side and refunded - *which allowed buyer to leave a stinking review*. Got Ebay to remove it via eBay messsaging where I dragged the Ebay staff members eyeballs over the sale message log. However I understand that Ebay has since made such review deletions near impossible?

Oh I remember it well! It often led to some funny comments whilst looking at peoples feedback. The same is still sort of true now however the blackmailing can only come from one direction...

And there in lies the problem. Yahoo auctions was a viable alternative until one day they decided not to bother and shut it all down.

Gumtree is even dodgier and is still owned by eBay...

It's one of the risks you take for advertising to a bigger market and getting more money than you could at other places.

You'd get given negative reviews.

great find

if that happened to me then personally i'd buy it back via a friend then do the same to him

that seller is not very bright if he allows himself to be identified like that as karmas a bitch

I've activated the offer, now how do I return something and get paypal to pay the postage? Do they supply a returns label?

Cheers!

Any listing i put on ebay now is collect only and cash on collection. anyone pays via paypal i refund straight away and tell them to pay me when they pick it up. Not having anyone pay me with paypal anymore, and state that i wont post anything. If they dont like it then dont buy it, i state this is in all of my listings.

yes it is a lot of effort, so much so that im moving away from ebay and using gumtree and shpock a lot more, but that too brings its own level of grief with it. Ebay is turning into a traders market rather than your average joe selling the odd item and thats how they want it, they get more revenue from traders than the little guy and offer no protection to the little seller. And dont get me started on buy it now having to be bought by paypal, another way of shoehorning their tools into the sale process. Its even got to the stage that i dont purchase on ebay much these days because of that tactic.

So naive, Chinese sellers that for example sell fake USB or memory cards know EXACTLY what they are doing. But if you are happy going through the official return process then good for you.

You need to sell tracked at all times, eBay won't even consider non-tracked claims.

That is great. Thanks

:laughing: Calm down. I haven't deleted any message (have a look), stand by what I said. Like I said good for you if you want to send broken or fake stuff back to China.

I really hope your response is a joke.

I know now, which forces you to charge more for postage, turning away buyers. and now since ebay take a cut of the postage fee too, you have to bump that again just to break even on the recorded delivery charge, let alone the cost of any packaging and getting to the post office on top.
Makes you wonder how I can buy an item from China, have it delivered via airmail (then via royal mail to compound the craziness) to my door with tracking for under a pound when it costs so much to do it at home.

If you're not a business seller on eBay you don't have to refund delivery costs if the buyer changed their mind.

myHermes do tracked postage really cheap. £2.70 under a kg, this is the only way I've managed to stay selling on eBay.

He's talking about initial delivery costs.

So am I - the cost of outward delivery to the buyer.

I'm not a seller, but there are way too many rights for buyers nowadays. Some proper **** takers out there that will abuse this.

I would also claim non receipt if I received a fake item from China. Those pesky sellers will reap what they sow. I would probably do the same for DOA items too -- unless of course the seller explicitly states that they will cover the cost of insured return delivery (which they never do).

(P.S. yankyg, please don't report me to Ebay. I don't want to be banned for life. :man: )

Subbed.

The assumption for the majority of these comments is that paypal is being used solely to buy things from ebay. Surely, it can be used for any paypal purchase?

I have been obliged to return faulty goods to non-ebay sellers, and, for some reason, they imagine that I should be happy to pay for returning their shoddy goods. 'Not their company policy' is a favourite. So if paypal will help me with that, then that's fine by me.

Incidentally, I am both a buyer and seller on ebay and can see both sides of the argument. The trouble is, you will always get people who exploit the system whichever side they are on.

Ebay brought in the FVFs on postage because so many sellers were cheating the system by listing things for 99p with £25 postage for example.

All that happened was we honest sellers pay out more money and the dishonest ones stick with their 99p listings and deliver dross. If a buyer dares to complain they say, ok, just return it and we'll give you back your 99p. Don't you think if they could get some of that delivery back with paypal that can only be a good thing?

Nice to see the T&C's on the form are all broke, so no idea what I am agreeing to! I am seeing if this works for an eBay return...

This is good but their new interest money making put your money into pending so you can't touch it for at least a week after shipping is a total control.

Big difference. If a seller from China sends you fake items, The only way to get your money back was to send it back to China at potentially more cost then the item is worth. They bank on this and are ripping people off left right and center. More then happy to 'work the system' if the seller is has tried to rip me off in the 1st place.......... Or are you condoning dodgy Chinese sellers?

Didn't work that way for me when I returned an item that was DOA last year: I paid the return costs (1st class recorded) and got a refund for my original payment from the seller, but they refused to pay my return costs.

At that time eBay had no mechanism to force the seller to pay the return costs- once the refund had been given the case was closed. Maybe it would have been different had the seller been a business instead of private?

I gave the seller negative feedback, which I'm happy to say annoyed them.

Everyone seems to instantly assume this is for eBay only. Am I the only one who uses PayPal for payments outside of eBay purchases? This is a good deal for those looking to return items to say, Sportsdirect etc. People need to calm themselves, before they start frothing at the mouth over this promotion.

Something i just thought of and maybe a good lesson (but don't worry as this is not he case)

How many of you just clicked the link and merrily logged in to Paypal without checking the URL or doing other research?

Got to be careful these days people, this is all it takes to steal peoples log on details :smiley:

thanks very much for sharing. really a great deal. hot

I don't reside in those countries that qualify for this deal?!!!

presuming this doesn't coincide with eBay now they have parted ways?

ta for sharing x

Registered thanks! :smile:

China exports endlessly because corporations etc in the west has "invested" there to make lots of dosh yet China forbids exports to their country and will only take cosmetics if they HAVE been tested on animals. They pull the strings.

​I'm not new been selling buying for 15 years then this. Asked PayPal got the same BS line said I'm not new and a transaction 2 days before I transferred out the same day.

Small print : You are registered with PayPal as an holder of a PayPal account resident in Czech Republic, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Malta and Portugal and your PayPal account is not suspended or limited;

Just about to get back into reselling on eBay, going to hold off until this ends.

I remember reading somewhere that a huge part of it was due to Weird Al Yankovic's song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ

They didn't like the idea of being seen as a car boot sale company, instead wanting to be more like a digital shopping mall. A bit like "Not on the highstreet".

I did too

Must be sending me to the wrong link on my phone https://www.paypal.com/gr/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

brought 2 makita batterys from fleabay from a so called london based seller supposedly orginal makita batterys as per pic and description so opened a case with paypal and have been told that if i want a refund i have to post them back to china so don,t think the £15 will cover that.

I bought one item yesterday on the 5th noticed it is defective, I just activated this offer after the purchase in case seller not arranging the returns I am eligible to get the refund cost back ? as PayPal says any purchases on or after 4th April

I cannot imagine you are a regular seller on ebay going by that remark - decent sellers are getting truly shafted by cheating buyers who have been known to return a house brick 'signed for', so the seller has 'admitted' getting a return, and crooked buyer keeps the goods and has the payment refunded as well...read the ebay discussion boards for proof it's happening.
Paypal also give you 180 days to claim for a refund, so people buy something, use it until it breaks and then claim for a refund long after any normal high street store would say tough luck.

So if you are a non-business seller you now need to wait until Sept 1st to list items? Seems like paypal are in danger of shooting ebay in the foot...

@DeepThoat - I mean the original postage cost to send to the buyer

Hot from me. When we talk about how bad is being a private seller on Ebay (I am one), then my advise is: take your time, take a good pictures, describe your items as close as possible and as far as you make it clear that returns are not accepted (unless of course item is faulty or not as described), and if buyer still wants to return the item, the postage cost wont be refunded, then you'll be fine.
Haven't lost a dispute so far and my feedback is more than 500, but that does not mean I haven't sent handful of items "for free" to buyers who claim that they did not receive anything the first time, so I'm not saying that selling is easy, there's always somebody who will try to rip you off, get 2 for 1 price etc, but avoiding most returns are not that hard.

I stopped selling on ebay when a buyer bought a new B&O item for £200 which included it's manufacturer security tape still in place around it's packaging. I had photos to prove it but the buyer claimed the package was empty once he removed the security tape.

Paypal chose to refund the seller as they took his unverified word for it. This was despite the fact I had an email from him thanking me and saying his wife was giving him a hard time for buying it. Paypal refused to accept photos and email as evidence but referred him to their fraud department. they wouldn't tell me afterwards whether they closed his account due to 'data protection rules'.

The police gave me an incident number and said it was one of so many thousand. There was no refund of item or cash so I gave him a brand new B&O item for free.

This couldn't have come at a better time. Bought a PS3 from Ebay last month which now has the YLOD and need to return it to get my money back :/

super

Is there any reason the police can't go to the buyers house and get the item back since they have essentially stolen it from you?

yes in that they say the sealed box was empty. also the police cannot just seize goods.

Selling on eBay these days is getting hard enough but this will make it even harder, can see this turning into a nightmare and this is why I state I don't accept returns unless the item is faulty.

For buyers a good thing but the timewasters etc will just use this to dick people about

Anker's PowerLine+ cables are good for fast charging devices...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B019Q3T7YG

Not sure when you used eBay last, but this IS how it works??

Think many are missing the point here.

When you purchase a buy it now item on eBay from a business seller you have 14 days to return it, due to the 'Consumer Contracts Regulations' (previously Distance Selling Regulations)

PayPal are basically paying for this return, this should not affect the seller negatively, a buyer may be more likely to make a purchase as a result.

If you are a private seller, you don't have to accept returns for change of minds, so this doesn't affect you at all

You are absolutely correct of course, that said about 2 years ago I had someone claim they never received the item despite me having sent it recorded delivery, you know what....eBay still sided with the customer and he was fully refunded, sickening but par for the course with eBay

Very worrying. A few more of these episodes would sigificantly damage ebay.

PayPal give you 180 days, however ebay offer only 30 days.

For eBay purchases you only get 30 days, if the product is faulty, not 180!

for sales outside of eBay it is 180 days



So you're a business seller then? private sellers don't have to accept change of mind returns


ok, agreed, but this isn't eBays doing, you can blame the Consumer Contracts Regulations' (previously Distance Selling Regulations) for that, they insist that the seller refunds all postage costs, eBay are responsible for ensuring all business sellers do this

At the end of the day, selling online usually saves you money, you don't have a shop rent or lease to pay for, instead in additiona to any other storage overheads your prices should reflect the possible loss of income due to these CC regs

Also, as an eBay business seller you are paying significantly lower fees than private sellers, if your business cannot absorb the odd return, it isn't a viable business and you are probably just undercutting everyone to hit your margins

sweet

Normal people sell on eBay **** that.

I sell both privately and as a business, by the time you factor in all the deals for free listings, discount fees etc., you are definitely getting lower fees as a private seller and I've got a database of 1000s of sales over several years, no matter which year I pick, it's the same but 2016 is by far the biggest difference.

mike

I had a similar situation last year, sold a brand new Samsung Galaxy S6. The buyer no longer wanted it and requested to send it back, sent it back and even gave me a tracking code. When it arrived it was the original box with some junk in it (assuming it was for the weight). I told ebay/Paypal what I had got, they never cared as the buyer had simply gave them a tracking code for a package >:-| so I lost out a brand new phone. Would have have gone to that guys house had he not lived on the other side of the country

PayPal are firmly securing themselves as my favourite method of payment.
Thanks for the heads up op :smiley:

This would produce incorrect data, you need to recalculate the fees for your sales on your business seller account as if it were a private seller,

business sellers get free listings much more frequently than private sellers, in fact there is one on at the moment for business sellers.

Also remember that business seller fees are not only lower, but are also capped at £10, whilst private sellers cap is around £250, if selling expensive items this cap is significant

Once again, you must have been a business seller, as private sellers do not have to accept returns if someone changes their mind!

yes, that sounds similar to my problem. This guy was a paramedic living in the North West. I live on the South Coast :disappointed: It would have been a seven hour drive one way because of London being on route. I won't sell anything now where the buyer wants to use Paypal. I had someone on here wanted to use Paypal when I wanted either cash or into my zero account. He claimed a Lloyds zero account wasn't safe !!! so I refused to sell as he insisted upon Paypal.

so it's easy. as a seller refuse to use Paypal.

Nice one, bout time they give something back, they make enough out of us

Not sure why so hot and all the comments relating to eBay, On eBay if you are a private seller click on 'no returns' on sell item pages, fixed..

many companies I shop with online offer free returns anyway,
It will be useful for a few other shops that don't, sneakersnstuff sweden ;0)

inlaw sold a mobile phone,took pictures of it,with all numbers,the phone was working,all seals intact.
anyway he sold it the guy had it 11 days,then put in a refund thing and got it.
when phone came back it didnt work and had been opened and even with pictures to prove it was fully sealed when shipped ebay sided with the buyer.

If they have that in place then good for them. However sometime back I they didn't and I got caught out out. I bought 4 mp3 players. Upon receiving the 1st one I found out the memory capacity was fake. Ebay insisted I had to send it back and no matter what I said the seller refused to pay return postage. Fortunately by the time I received the other 3 I was wise to the situation and had no qualms in claiming I hadn't received them. If they are a they are a seller deliberately trying to rip me off then I have not issue in doing the same to them. I used ebay for many years as a buyer and a seller. My experience was that you were just as likely to have a buyer as well as a seller try and pull a fast one. For my part I was always fair and honest to those that were fair and honest to me. I rarely sell on Ebay because of the bias towards buyers and 2 months paypal protection offers little in terms of security for me as a buyer of New goods. For the latter prefer Amazon

Well it obv is... no buyer will return an item if its worth it and what they want. If i dont want something for any reason i shouldnt have to pay to return it. You charge for postage on top of what you want to sell the item for so how you losing out? If someone sells the same item in better nick for cheaper i would be an idiot not to go for that one :/ deal with it!

When did I ever say that?! If one has a problem, then just rely on your CC rather than PP is the point I have made.

For items over £100 , sure :wink: Section 75 is there for you.

It's called reading what the original text said

And for items under £100 at the discretion of the CC company

Don't bet on that; unscrupulous buyers may have buyers remorse and think they paid a bit too much, others might have bid on multiple auctions for the same item and won more than 1, others will simply decide they have changed their mind....

There should be an IQ test as part of registering for an ebay account

The phone app made it worse, now you have some buyers on there who don't even have a proper computer, just a phone.

I am well aware of the contractual agreements between myself and the buyer, something which eBay is keen to reinforce. For example under the CCR, certain items are exempted from a buyer returning the item when the buyer changes their mind, like personalised items & software purchases etc. eBay do not have the provisioning in place to allow exemptions, with the restrictions in provisioning affecting the seller negatively.

It seems the policies created and enforced at eBay only take into account of low value items (i.e >£10) and base all rules around that, regardless whether it could be a £400 NAIM stereo or a £3 phone holder.

You won't be able to as the transaction was between the credit card and Paypal, not your credit card and the seller. As far as the credit card company is concerned, the transaction between you and Paypal was lawful and therefore unable to recover costs.

Again - read what I originally wrote: If you buy on eBay as a guest avoiding Paypal, then what you have said doesn't apply.

There are no sellers on eBay which accept Credit Card through a merchant bank account. When you pay using a credit card on eBay, it is transacted through PayPal, so therefore what you have said doesn't apply. Having a guest account or not is irrelevant. Paypal is not a bank.

PayPal is registered as a bank in Luxembourg under the legal name PayPal (Europe) Sarl et Cie SCA, a company regulated centrally by the Luxembourg bank authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF).

You conveniently ignore in the same Wikipedia section the following:

In 2007, PayPal Europe was granted a Luxembourg banking license, which, under European Union law, allows it to conduct banking business throughout the EU

I don't need to "get some respect". I point out facts, not myths.

If you receive goods back not as described, and they were as described you simply report the buyer on eBay. if they get 3 substantial reports of this nature they are permanently suspended.

Reporting buyers was introduced last year



There isn't anything automated on eBay for things like new software or games that have been opened, however eBay willl side with you if the buyer has admitted to breaking the seal, i did this myself when a buyer asked to return a sealed game and i politely asked for reason for return, and the buyer replied, 'i played it and didn't like it' , so i simply asked if they threw the cellophane away and they said yes, (all this communication was done in the resolution centre, not pm) - i won the case, since the buyer has devalued the item, which is mentioned in the eBay user agreement as being a valid reason to reject a return

Paypal is a bank dear. The fact that you quoted from Wikipedia yet a few lines down from that very quotation proves it is, makes you go "full-****"

Not sure that works. UK credit act covers a transaction directly between seler and buyer. Paypal payments were excluded as the cc companies use to argue the direct transaction was between you and the seller, not you and eBay/PayPal.

Does anyone know if this has changed?

With sites like this, does anybody still use eBay and PayPal?
Personally find eBay expensive and the less said about PP, the better; they're scum.

My bad, PayPal is regulated as if it is a bank. Either way, you still can't claim through your credit card, less so now it is a bank, as the transaction between your credit card and PayPal was lawful. What Paypal does with the money is between you and Paypal.

Why are you even using eBay/PayPal? I thought people stopped wasting their money on that over priced pile of crud years ago! Facebook selling groups are much more effective, and free.

Totally agree.

Being a business seller on Feebay this will just cause more hassle.

Thanks OP :smiley:

Wow reading all of this makes me want to stop selling on eBay.

me too

Great stuff!! :smirk:

Paypal is not a bank, it's a payment processor and from a legal point of view there is a huge difference, it is not regulated by the FSA, if it was it would not be able to randomly hold peoples money when it wants, which happens alot. Paypal will never be a bank, their operating practices would never be accepted by the FSA.

Paypal and ebay split before it was legally forced to do so. I feel sorry for the sellers on ebay but ebay knows until something can compete with them, they will always have sellers so they have set up a big buyer bias knowing there is nothing sellers can do.

That is how it is supposed to work already. If an item is not as described, the seller is required to pay for return shipping. Though a lot of sellers will fight you on this.

I bought a mattress which came up 5cm bigger than quote (both length and width) and therefore didn't fit the bed base. They eventually paid for the return shipping once I told them I had contacted trading standards.

Trustedreviews quotes this thread on its website:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/paypal-s-new-refund-deal-is-a-hit-but-sellers-are-furious

Basically if you are a seller on Ebay and a buyer wants a free item from you then you are goosed.

I remember selling a brand new Ralph Lauren bag on there last year - I of course sent it recorded signed for delivery but the buyer then claimed he wanted to send the item back as it wasn't as described (I paid his return postage). When I opened the returned package back up he had put an ancient old Ralph Lauren backpack in it's place ...

I was goosed and the buyer had his free item, his money back and no chance of negative feedback.

You're far too trusting, why would you confirm the refund before inspecting the returned item? You should have waited for the return, then refused to refund anything.

Since when has Paypal ever been interested in the seller?

Cold. I only buy stuff I want. It's not fair to retailers to buy things you don't intend on keeping. It costs them money which someone has to pay for. If you want to try something out go to a "shop". Warning : It does involve leaving the house.

Jesus Christ, just gone through 10 pages of the above bickering and there is no instruction anywhere as to how to use this offer.

I've just bought a hat direct from a company using paypal, not through ebay. I wish to return it as the quality is no good. Could anyone tell me how I use this offer to do so without getting angry? I cannot see how by looking through my paypal account.

Edit: before anyone kicks off I've just gone through the first page of my "completed transactions" on paypal. 15 are for orders made this year for delivery. Over £150 spent. One order was returned - to the shop I click/collected from. The others were kept.

Actually the law already allows for refund of postage for faulty goods or something that is not as advertised. As mainly a buyer on eBay I don't actually agree with this. I think it is yet another grossly unfair impingement on sellers. All I can see it doing is pushing up the price of goods :disappointed:

Nothing to do with being trusting - once something has been returned and I have signed for it then the buyer has his proof that he sent it back and I received it. No amount of "proof" as to what the package contained would have changed the outcome of the buyer getting his money back. That is how it works - the buyer is always protected ...even if he/she is a con merchant.

Thanks for posting

I get what you're saying, but sounds like you just confirmed the refund without even checking anything. You could have contested the return, emptied the balance from your PayPal account and gone through dispute process. They'd have had a much harder time taking your money then.

That is simply NOT true. Paypal refund the buyer whether you have funds or not. They put your account into negative and harass you daily until you give them the money they refunded. They after three or four days start phoning many times a day from different numbers and also start doing it from overseas so it's not in UK working hours. so they give a buyer behaving fraudulently your money and then chase you aggressively for it. The police refuse to get involved even tho you have registered the fraud with them as well. All you could do is stop using that phone number but if you cannot you are sunk. I no longer use paypal for any sales I make.

does any one know how this works? As i have bought something new of an ebay shop and would like to send it back. Tia

From what I can see the procedure to obtain the refund of shipping costs is basically as follows:-
You need to have “opted in” with Paypal for the offer.
Then make sure you have been through the sellers returns procedure and obtained authorisation for the return.
Once you have agreed and sent back the item – fill in the details on the Paypal form at -
https://www.paypal-returns.com/hc/en-gb/requests/new
The conditions can be found at - https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns/general-conditions

Fab! Thank you so much :smiley:

Urrgh. 200 post. Anyone know how this Paypal deal gels with an auction that states "14 days money back, buyer pays return postage". Paypal deal overrides sellers stipulation? Never sent much back from ebay and never to HK etc.

Voted hot by mistake

I sold a PSN 20 quid code to a buyer last month, he used the credit and two weeks later his credit card company requested a chargeback from all his transactions including for the psn code. I provided proof that the code was sent to him to paypal and shown them evidence the buyer used the credit on his account (by checking if it was used by typing it on my psn account, and it showed as used). Yet PayPal insist that it's the credit card company who has the 'final say' whether to reimburse the 20 quid (-paypal/ebay fees). It's bulls*** that sellers should get punished from the recklessness of buyers.

They are actually copying+pasting quotes with the usernames on here?
Is this allowed without prior consent?

You're posting on a public forum, free for all to see.

gr8 deal

Except that, Mr Paypal, as others here have already said,
(a) sellers have to give a refund of not just the sale price but also the costs they incurred in sending it out - converting the postage costs into a loss
(b) Sellers often have "no returns" policy. This can be overruled if not as described etc, but now paypal are allowing it to be overruled - and postage costs suffered as losses - for any reason.

I started refusing to post items on ebay this year after some idiot falsely claimed that the goods, which I personally bought from an authorised reseller, were counterfeit. After I provided reasonable proof to the buyer that they were purchased reputably, they openly said "it wasn't quite what I wanted anyway so I'd still like my refund" and ebay live chat told me to accept the return. The result - out of pocket for my postage. At least I stalled long enough that the buyer paid to ship it to me, because theoretically I had to pay for shipping in both directions simply because they falsely alleged the goods were counterfeit.

Is it both sides postage which can get refund?

I'm amazed that so many 'previously bitten' sellers have simply stated that they got shafted over a return and that was that.
Did you not report the theft? Did you not pursue it?

I sell quite a lot of fairly expensive items. I've never had a problem, as I go to great lengths to describe my items, I clearly state all conditions and warranties, and provide MANY photos of actual devicde being sold and send via tracked and signed service.

Now, it may be more luck than judgement that I've never suffered a THEFT in this way, but why do so many apparently take it lying down?
IT'S A THEFT!! Report it to the police, follow it up. If you sold a phone, use the IMEI number and bar it!

Saves consumer from unreliable sellers

Most decent sellers offer 14-30 days money back guarantee anyway.

I believe point A has nothing to do with PayPal, but rather the Distance Selling Regulations.

Not private sellers.

Not private sellers. Although ebay falsely told me I had to accept a return under the DSR, for a private sale.

Came in handy the other day when I bought those horrible Superdry espadrilles I found on here that were two sizes too small. They would not offer to reimburse me the return postage as the size was 'correct' and it was not their fault that it did not fit me. Luckily I had opted into this offer the day I purchased the shoes and was able to get reimbursed the shipping fee which I've already received in my paypal acct.

I did this, PayPal never responded.

You would have been covered by seller protection though if you had proof of delivery.

Jeepers! So many bad stories on here!!

I've been on ebay since 1999 (17 years!) and remember the days before Paypal where you more often than not sent cash through the post - Yikes! Yet in those early days I cannot recall I ever had a problem. I remember trying to disguise coins in envelopes but cutting holes in card and then placing the coins in the holes and covering everything with sellotape and bubble wrap! I DID have a couple of problems with postal orders, so cash was seen back then as a safer method - and sending either cash, or the actual goods, by special or recorded delivery was unusual.

It seems unbelievable now looking back yet 'business' was conducted on one's word and honour. I even remember buying something from a German guy (back in 1999 - 2001 I bought a LOT of stuff from abroad) and chatted to him via email about the item and some other collectible items he had that I would like. I told him I wouldn't be able to send payment for a few days as I was away with work and couldn't get to a post office to get some Deutsch-marks and he said that was fine. A few hours later he emailed me again to tell me he'd posted everything anyway (from memory the total came to well over £70) and I said I'd emailed him to say I couldn't send payment for a few days - had he not received it? He said "I know - not a problem, just send when you can"! He also cheekily asked if I could send a couple of bags of some crisps he'd tried when he was over here that he couldn't get back in Germany - something like Bovril flavour or the like that were a limited edition flavour! But you know what, I tracked a couple of bags down and sent them with the payment almost 2 weeks later (it took me that long to find the crisps!).

And after a few days I received the items as promised in the post (BEFORE I'd sent payment) and he'd also included some extra items and a chocolate bar as payment in kind for the crisps - which I hadn't at that point even found! And when he finally received my payment (with the crisps!) he was so chuffed he then sent me some more items totally free of charge and out of the blue! Amazing guy!

I also used to buy LOADS of stuff from the US - and again it was always payment in cash - I used to regularly go to the post office to buy dollars and would spread them out on a copy of the 'invoice', sellotape them down and just pop them in the post with the standard airmail stamp! I never, ever, had a problem even though I did this between 100 and 200 times - I NEVER got claims payment was not received and I ALWAYS received my items! I also bought similar items from all over Europe as well as Australia, Canada, Mexico and a few other countries.

I know many people won't believe any of this but it's 100% true. Those were the days!

Anyway, thought people might enjoy reading these stories from the early years of ebay.

On a separate note, I see many people saying that Ebay/Paypal side with the buyer every time? Well they didn't with me a few months ago. I bought a second-hand AV receiver and 5.1 surround sound system with sub. Well I drove right into the centre of London to pick them up, had a good long chat with the seller during which he handed over everything in a large designer carrier bag (except the sub which he carried to my car) and returned home. When I set everything up the sub didn't work. Also, the 5.1 speakers didn't have the wall brackets with them and the sub cable was also missing. The seller had put a stock picture of everything on the listing and gave no further information other than it was in excellent condition with all accessories.

The 5.1 system comes with it's own bespoke wall brackets which, if you can even track them down anywhere, usually cost upwards of £80 for 5. You cannot easily buy them - I only found one place in the US that stocked them as a separate item and with postage were way over £100.

So I firstly spoke with the seller and he basically told me where to go. So I opened a case with Paypal and answered all their questions, proved that the seller had confirmed everything was included and working and that I had previously asked him to set it all up so I could see it working ok before collecting (which he refused to do as he didn't have the speaker cables). They could also see that I'd tried to resolve matters amicably by asking for a modest £30 refund so as to buy the missing cable, universal wall brackets from ebay and a replacement sub cable, yet he refused.

He was totally and utterly in the wrong, yet Paypal sided with him although I could return for a full refund IF I paid return postage. I explained to Paypal that it would have cost over £40 due to weight and value (I had to send back BOTH the AV receiver AND the 5.1 system) which was almost half what I won the item for! Why should I have to pay the return postage when the sub was dead as a do-do and the wall brackets and cable was missing? It would have been easier to drive back to return but I wouldn't have had any proof I'd returned it so that wasn't an option either. So I gave up and it's still sitting in my garage now as although the AVR works, the speakers and sub don't!

And the final insult? I got a fixed penalty fine through the post for inadvertently straying into a bus lane in central London for around 4 seconds! It was late evening and raining (I was trying to avoid the ridiculous London traffic) and due to all of the reflections on the road of the mass street lighting everywhere, I'd not noticed the lane had changed colour to dark red and was now a bus lane. I noticed after around 4 seconds yet it was too late - I had the pleasure of receiving a fine and still pictures from the video in the post a couple of weeks later. And the roads were relatively deserted at almost 11pm on a Sunday night with hardly a bus, car, taxi or anything in sight, yet I was still hit with a fine!

So in summary - [email protected] Ebay!!! Oh, and Paypal too!

hmm.. win win for me

I accepted a return back as buyer ordered incorrectly, so I agreed to take it back and refund less the original postage cost, I refunded immediately it was returned back, but, as I hadnt fully refunded the buyer (i.e. didnt refund the postage charge that it cost me to send in the first place) I was not then eligible for the final vale fee credit as I hadnt refunded in full ... how fair is that !

Does the item have to be purchased between the 4 April and 31 August to qualify or is that just the dates when the item has been returned? I purchased an item from Australia on the 31 March on Ebay, which arrived on the 7 April, but it was faulty. Seller has agreed to replace, but hasn't mentioned anything about returning the postage.

Answer in the terms and conditions:

What happens if I return an item purchased before the launch of the PayPal Refunded Returns service (4 April 2016)?
Unfortunately, the Service is not retroactive.

You may only make a Refund request for items that You purchased and returned between 4 April 2016 and 31 August 2016.

Thank you.

I forgot about this offer and returned an item a couple of days ago without 'signing up' to the offer.

I've now signed up and looking at the T&Cs, I can't see anything that says I can't make a claim, only mentions the offer dates (4th April to 31st Aug) and trying to retrospectively claim outside these dates.

I can't see it specifically stated that you need to have signed up before you purchase and return an item?

okay putting in uppercase that it's theft is true but clearly you haven't read or haven't listened to what people (me included) on here are saying. The police ARE NOT INTERESTED. Now did you understand that ? no ? OK, I will say it again...The police ARE NOT INTERESTED.

They basically take the details and say that it's recorded but don't expect any action. They get thousands and thousands every year and they don't have the resources. BTW, mine wasn't a return, mine was the buyer claiming I sent an empty box despite it having the manufacturers security tape still sealing the package. Yes, I took photos before I sent it and Paypal still took the buyers claim despite no proof.

So you are lucky.

thanks for this info, heated!

Anyone been successful with this?

I put in a legit claim last Monday (with email confirmation of claim) and not heard back - although strictly speaking the '5 business days' aren't up until this evening....

I have just received my postage refund :smiley:
I think they could make to more straight forward though, as it doesn't seem to be paypal refunding the money.
a third party seems to be involved?

What a total joke of a company. I bought a mobile that turned out to be faulty, finally managed to send it back to the seller for a refund after opening an eBay resolution case. Had already opted in to the PayPal 'return shipping on us' promotion after seeing it here, so I thought, great, I'll be able to get my postage costs refunded. I filled in all the fields, provided courier receipt and PayPal transaction screenshots as requested. Waited 5 working days only to get the following reply from Ralitsa Raykova (Telus International Europe):



We have reviewed your request to get a refund of your return shipping costs (669170). However, unfortunately we are unable to approve your request for the following reason:

Your item was faulty or damaged. Please be advised that merchants are required by law to pay for the return shipping of damaged or faulty goods, therefore, you cannot benefit from our service. This purchase is not eligible for reimbursement through Return Shipping on Us by PayPal. You should contact your merchant directly.
Please review the terms and conditions for the Return Shipping on Us service which were provided to you by PayPal Pte. Ltd in partnership with Telus International Europe (CallPoint New Europe JSC), the service processor. If you have any further questions, please contact us at [email protected].



The thing is, I DID review the terms and conditions and it makes absolutely NO mention anywhere that the 'return shipping on us' offer is only valid on returns of non-faulty items. I replied to them pointing this out but they continue to fob me off. Absolutely raging with PayPal/Telus or whoever it is making up the rules as they go along. Total waste of time.

Paypal is 100% correct here - why would they pay for faulty items if it's sellers responsibility anyway?

so you buy off ebay and it's faulty. why should paypal refund you for part of your legal dispute with the seller ? it is the seller's responsibility to refund you the postage costs.

I wouldn't have expected PayPal to refund me the shipping under normal circumstances, but I assumed this was the whole point of their 'Return Shipping On Us' promotion. There are plenty of eligibility exceptions in the t&c's of this offer, but at no point does it say that faulty items don't qualify for the shipping refund. (And for what it's worth, the seller tried to dispute the return of the faulty phone in the first place so attempting to then get him to agree to refund my return shipping cost got me nowhere). So, genuinely, tell me how PayPal is in the right here if they're not honouring their own promotion?

You open case on ebay for faulty item, ebay give you prepaid return label (if seller don't want to cooperate) and get money from seller - you don't spend a penny and seller got nothing to say.

and from this offer T&C:
Under what conditions can I not use the PayPal Return Shipping on Us service?

Items for which the return by Royal Mail, courier or any other regular shipping options or services is already paid for by the seller or merchant.

Can I use the PayPal Return Shipping on Us service if the seller or merchant already offers a similar service?

No. The Return Shipping on Us service applies when a free or refunded return service by Royal Mail, courier or any other regular shipping options or services is not offered by the seller or merchant from whom You made your purchase. If the seller or merchant from whom You made your purchase offers a free or refund return service by Royal Mail, courier or any other regular shipping options or services, You must use that service.

did you get an ebay prepay label ? if not why didn't you and did you dispute that ?

Bought a iphone from ebay said item new. Arrived with no original box so couldn't check details and apple guarantee was only 4 months left not 11 months he quoted. after sending seller said it was a display model.I feel that the phone has been well looked after but not convinced it's new. But I was wanting a new phone. Can I send back and get return money refunded with " seller incorrectly advertising " thanks

great post. however been a nightmare using this. As twice I've used. I've submitted the forms and a few days later ill email asking about it then I'm suddenly expected to dish up additional info. think it's a little testy and glitchy still. as advisor emailed me back asking for "proof on transaction id" which it doesn't ask u submit on form

​have u had silly emails back?

Yes - I had my postage refunded - despite being told that originally I was not eligible as I purchased before the offer started.

​i know how u feel. you seem to go around in loops don't u? i rang and they explained as its new scheme there's a lot of glitches in the info they ask u to provide on the web page.

Have any1 used this offer?

I did. Bought a computer power supply unit but it didn't come with a power cord.
Sent the item using special delivery (£11) and seller refunded me in full. Made a claim and
within a week, I was paid. Pretty straight forward for me. It has now been extended till end of December.

£2.80 Hermes or other cheap tracked delivery no good for you SIR/MADAM?

You can make a claim of up to £15 and I made they would get it. I would have ordered a limousine delivery
but sadly that came to just above £15 :wink:

Paypal will get that money back from you and all of us... in their fees ... and thanks to ppl like you they sky high

I have tried to use this offer, having sent back an item. The item has been returned and I filled in the form but have had zero reponse from them since and its been over a week now. Anyone had similar issues?

Just to make people aware, that this will probably not work when you have to return items abroad, as it has to be complete in 14 days after returning an item, I returned something to France and it took 6 weeks to get the refund, so couldn't claim the return shipping back :disappointed:

Same here. Submitted 2 claims so far, one yesterday and one over a week ago. No reply for either despite the T&C's on the offer page stating: "Confirmation of receipt of your Refund request: the same day (or the first business day after your Refund request if it was received after 5 PM GMT or on a non-business day)"

They have a contact email ([email protected].) so Im going to ask for an update but Im not holding my breath

Replying to myself and in case this helps anyone else .... after sending them an email asking for an update I got confirmation first thing the next morning saying that my claim would be paid.

​still use caution my 3 month old ulephone Vienna gave up the ghost. Royal Mail said the lithium ion battery was prohibited and PayPal says it isn't covered by their protection policy.

​still use caution my 3 month old Ulefone Vienna gave up the ghost. Royal Mail said the lithium ion battery was prohibited and PayPal says it isn't covered by their protection policy.

I had £14.50 refunded for a Royal Mail International Tracked & Signed return to the USA as part of a Paypal Dispute Resolution that I received a refund for (including the cost of the original ebay Global Seller Program charge), so this worked out well for me. Thank you OP for alerting me to it.

Having recieved an order ( computer value £77.00 ) on 1st Oct 2016 ) I wish to return this item for credit, I don't know what to do, as I'm not a computer genius, can you help me on this question ?
Thank you