Currently £6 cheaper than ebuyer (in stock) the current Skylake excitement is that a new bios/utility release from Asrock for their Z170 motherboards, brings (apparently stable) BCLK overclocking up to an impressive 4.33GHz on the entry-level i5 6400 (using a fairly decent third-party CPU cooler and provided that you do well in Intel's so-called 'silicone lottery' that might otherwise keep your sample from reaching that speed - the 4.33 GHz figure is from Hardware Unboxed's group Skylake BLCK overclocking test; video review link in comments, below). Review sites have said that other motherboard manufactures, e.g ASUS, have said they plan to release their own bios revisions, for this (see update, below). Presumably these motherboard manufacturers know what they are doing and promoting, warranty wise, but overclocking still comes with manufacturer disclaimers and, in that Intel don't sell their non-K series as BCLK overclockable, and the huge frenzy of forum excitement aside, you might also want to consider the reassurance of spending more on an i5 6600, running at stock, as an alternative, even if Intel's supplied stock cooler is fairly noisy under load. For those otherwise excited, speculation is that a probably unhappy Intel will introduce a microcode update to Skylake production lines that prevents their non-K Skylake CPUs from taking advantage.
edit -the deal link takes you to novatech's website but this works: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/processors/intelskylake1151/bx80662i56400.html
Below (and mainly in a later comment), I talk about why the i5 6400/Skylake is a good deal even without that potential intriguing BCLK overclock option (for me, it's because of the significant 1151 platform motherboard upgrades), but first, for anyone interested, I share what I have found about the BCLK feature.
Update 1: Also, please read my first post in the comments section, re temperature monitoring, or apparently the lack thereof after the "non-K OC bios" update (apparently people are insisting that with sensible settings you don't need a infrared thermometer, but I would like to borrow one!) you would want a fairly good CPU cooler (Skylake apparently doesn't take well to the heavier air coolers/over tightening) and, without being able to test temperatures, I wouldn't exceed the settings that the motherboard vendor recommends just because someone on a forum says go for it; I don't see the point in risking damaging your brand new CPU or reducing its life expectancy.
Asrock stated in a news release: ”Lab tests show that the once-not-overclockable Intel Core i5-6400 CPU can now be overclocked up to a 60% frequency boost with Sky OC on Asrock’s Z170 Pro4.” That motherboard is £92. It's unclear to me how they reached/measured the figure of 60% and what cooler they used; Hardware Unboxed benchmarks saw their i5 6400 sample manage a "31% increase", at "4.33GHz". Guru3d and other review sites still carry that 60% and Asrock graphs but most sites typically quote user figures of between 10 and 30% frequency boost, deepening on the CPU. The news sites mention that there is a test bios for MSI on the forums that enables the same non-K overclocking support but the advice is to wait for the full supported update from MSI).
Update 2 - there seem to be bios updates available on the forums for MSI Z170A XPOWER GAMING Titanium Edition. ASUS Maximus VIII Extreme, ASUS Maximus VIII Gene, ASUS Maximus VIII Hero, ASUS Maximus VIII Impact, ASUS Z170-A, ASUS Z170-Deluxe, ASUS Z170-E Non-K. Taking a look at one of the ASUS ones, there is the disclaimer that the bios might not be suitable for and might cause damage to a K-series i5 or i7 processor, so something to keep in mind if you're upgrading to a K-series model at a later date. It's unclear to me whether the bios updates are sanctioned by MSI and ASUS, or testers, as the downloads are from the forum, not the motherboard vendors. My preference would be to wait for stable, tested, verified releases.
Update 3 - "List of supported MSI Z170 models as of 18th of December:
Z170A XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM Edition E7968IMS.14U
Z170A GAMING M9 ACK E7966IMS.14T
Z170A GAMING M7 E7976IMS.19T
Z170A GAMING M5 E7977IMS.16T
Z170A-G45 GAMING E7977IMS.23T
Z170A GAMING M3 E7978IMS.A3T
Z170A GAMING PRO E7984IMS.16T
Z170A KRAIT GAMING E7984IMS.B5T
Z170I GAMING PRO AC E7980IMS.14T
Z170A TOMAHAWK / Z170A TOMAHAWK AC E7970IMS.33T
Z170M MORTAR E7972IMS.A2T
Z170A SLI PLUS E7998IMS.11T
Z170A-G43 PLUS E7970IMS.12T
Z170A PC MATE E7971IMS.A6T
Z170-A PRO E7971IMS.17T "
Again, this was a forum post with download links that weren't directly from MSI, so I won't post the link, here, would recommend MSI users who want to experiment, check for bios /beta bios updates on MSI's support page. MSI apparently included the understandable disclaimer: "Overclocking Intel non-K CPUs is not officially supported by Intel and the BIOS versions created by MSI unlocking this option are all beta versions. Intel may choose to disable this option at any time. At no point MSI can be taken responsible for disabling overclocking for non-K CPUs."
There is talk about the bios update and utility coming to cheap H170 motherboards but some suggest a hardware revision is planned. Most of the reviews using Asrock Z170 boards have been using the entry-level i3 6100 (which was overclocked to 4.7GHz - though it did well in games, it didn't do as well as expected, despite hyper-threading, though in user benchmarks it destroyed the non hyperthreaded G4400 Pentium, something also mentioned in the video review, link in comments below) and the budget i5 6400. I would be particularly interested to see how the higher binned i5 6500 does, at £159.98 (amazon).
For those not intending to BCLK overclock, the Skylake i5 6400 has the advantage over the older Haswell i5 4460 of better integrated graphics (the BCLK overclock disables integrated graphics, though I imagine most people contemplating overclocking will want to buy a graphics card, anyway) and brings the advantages of new features with the 1151 platform, which for me is the main appeal of Skylake. However, the older i5 4460 is still a good choice, because it beats the i5 6400 in some benchmarks, especially if you can't take advantage of the 1151 platforms new features. Digitalfoundry, though, do a good review on the extra frame rates achievable using faster memory with Skylake as compared with using faster memory with Haswell, but if trying to hit a tight budget, Haswell still has a lot going for it. My preference was for Skylake for the new features and, now, for the apparently stable BCLK overclock. There are known disadvantages to the workaround, which I mention in the post below.
Top comments
xigent
18 Dec 153#5
Or get the i5 6600 for £155 which is 3.9 GHz in turbo mode and leave everything working as Intel intended.
All comments (67)
Noclouds
18 Dec 152#1
There is speculation in the industry that Intel might, predictably, make a microcode adjustment to prevent the practice, in that Intel charge a big price premium on the K versions of their i5 6600 and i7 6700. Unfortunately the procedure disables the integrated graphics, so you would need to buy a graphics card. Locked into that 4.33GHz frequency (if your sample is able to reach that) you lose turbo and any other C-states and you see a dramatic increase in power usage (in one review, the figure was 18% more power than the i7 6700K running at stock (total system draw). I would set different profiles in bios, one for gaming/rendering, the other a default setting for general office and multimedia use. Select a boot up. I don't see that as a great inconvenience.
Though interestingly single core performance is faster than the i7 6700K, games that take advantage of multiple cores and threads still see the flagship Intel i7 6700K holding a small fps advantage in some games, at a much lower power draw. Still, the BCLK overclock significantly narrows the performance gap (in games), for only £140, allowing you to spend the £90 saved on a better graphics card.
update and this one bothers me a bit - one tester noted that he felt the only problem with the “special BIOS” being shared on the forums is that you can’t read out the core temperature, that it doesn't matter what tool you use, you will always see 100°C. He noted, however, that after clocking a lot of 6700K CPUs he feels he knows that anything below 1,40 Volt is fine with proper cooling. In reference to that, he hentions the X61 Kraken. He went on to say that even cheap and weaker air coolers can handle these CPUs at up to 1,40 Volt, more especially the i3 and Pentiums Skylake CPUs, as they only produce a relatively small amount of heat. A workaround would be to borrow (or buy and gift!) a cheap infra red thermometer (£10).
The source is a user named "der8auer", if you want to search for it; I'm reluctant to post the URL because the webpage has links to bios updates for MSI and ASUS that aren't, as far as I can see, direct from the motherboard vendors themselves. I am relatively risk averse and would wait for the reassuring security of updates direct from the motherboard vendors themselves. It seems to me that at this stage, despite a lot of users reporting great test results, things are still at the early testing stage. So, perhaps it makes sense to buy the CPU now, in the hope that Intel haven't yet updated their production line to prevent the BLCK overclock, and then wait until a stable/comparatively well tested beta bios is available from the motherboard vendors. Nothing is without some level of risk, the motherboard vendors always give that overclocking disclaimer and it seems to me at least as true, here, with the unsanctioned-by-Intel BLCK overclock, but I think that risk element is what sees more people going for the i5 6400, rather than a more expensive model. Also, the bang-for-your buck crowd like to spend as little as possible.
The problem for me is the i5 6500 is clocked 500mhz faster. Probably worth the extra £10-20. If you are buying a gaming pc disabling the CPU onboard GPU to overclock is hardly an issue. I doubt you would be over clocking the CPU unless you intended on gaming. Would intel honour the warranty if something went wrong using this new trick?
Agree disabling the GPU for everything would be a big step back. If you can do it just for games it might work well.
Noclouds to gummby
18 Dec 15#4
The cheapest I can find the i5 6500 from a UK vendor, full retail box with heatsink, rather than OEM without heatsink, and 3 year warranty and in stock is Amazon at £159 or, if it's another Amazon Skylake mislabel and you have to send it back, £163.97 inc shipping at CCL, in stock. Most of the reviewers and forums seem to have gone with the best bang for your buck option of the i3 6100 and the i5 6400, which I suppose makes sense in that challenge of what's the least I can spend, Tom? I would be keen to see a review of the i5 6500 in one of those Asrock motherboards or that one MSI motherboard.
Re warranty, though motherboard manufacturers routinely push overclock features and relative ease, Intel aren't known for their love of overclockers (sneaky workarounds, like this one), though I remember at one point they offered an insurance premium for owners who want to overclock, but that's for the unlocked K-series CPUs; Intel stand to lose a lot if people buy the cheapest i5 they can and BCLK overclock it, rather than shell out for a i5 6600K or i5 6700K. I would be very keen to see a long-term stress test of the i5 6400 with that BCLK overclock. My preferred option, at the moment, would be to go for a i5 6600 (with 2666GHz memory, re digitalfoundry and others findings) using the stock Intel cooler, which could be replaced a later date. When the warranty expires, I would apply a small BCLK overclock, provided the latest bios from whichever motherboard manufacturer supported it. Meantime, I am caught up in the excitement of this one, early days but the forums have gone bonkers! Could this mean a rush to buy before Intel introduce microcode to shut people out, I don't know. Christmas isn't a great time for me to be spending.
xigent
18 Dec 153#5
Or get the i5 6600 for £155 which is 3.9 GHz in turbo mode and leave everything working as Intel intended.
Noclouds to xigent
18 Dec 15#6
Where are you seeing the i5 6600 at that price. I have had the Intel i5 6600 in my Amazon basket for months now at £155, no stock, no stock, no stock. A few weeks ago they gave a stocking date, which was then shunted to 23rd December and I'm sure will be shunted, again, if they bother to give a stock date at all. Great if they deliver on their dates but I have bad so many let downs with Amazon and Skylake. It's not as if vendors elsewhere are having difficulties stocking that one.
The cheapest that I can find from a UK supplier on the i5 6600, retail box with cooler and 3 year warranty, in stock, is ebuyer at £175.
looneychoonz74
18 Dec 15#7
Still better off with a 4790K :wink:
eldaras to looneychoonz74
18 Dec 152#9
Mmm... That's a £100 more (:wink: back at you)
But since I'm feeling like topping you I'll say: a dual i7-5960X is still better. :smile:... forget the fact that each CPU is £800 :smile:
eldaras
18 Dec 15#8
I agree with some of the comments above, spend a bit more and get the 6500 if you can.
looneychoonz74
18 Dec 15#10
Ha,Absolutely!
The 5960x is a beast of a chip, but £800.... Ouch!
![Fresh Breakfast Meat Box (Using code) @ Campbells Meat [Haggis / Lorne Sausage / Bacon / Black Pudding & More]](/images/topics/208684_1.jpg)
![[Xbox One] Q. u. b. e: Director's Cut on Deals with Gold](/images/topics/208716_1.jpg)
Opening post
edit -the deal link takes you to novatech's website but this works: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/processors/intelskylake1151/bx80662i56400.html
Below (and mainly in a later comment), I talk about why the i5 6400/Skylake is a good deal even without that potential intriguing BCLK overclock option (for me, it's because of the significant 1151 platform motherboard upgrades), but first, for anyone interested, I share what I have found about the BCLK feature.
Update 1: Also, please read my first post in the comments section, re temperature monitoring, or apparently the lack thereof after the "non-K OC bios" update (apparently people are insisting that with sensible settings you don't need a infrared thermometer, but I would like to borrow one!) you would want a fairly good CPU cooler (Skylake apparently doesn't take well to the heavier air coolers/over tightening) and, without being able to test temperatures, I wouldn't exceed the settings that the motherboard vendor recommends just because someone on a forum says go for it; I don't see the point in risking damaging your brand new CPU or reducing its life expectancy.
Asrock stated in a news release: ”Lab tests show that the once-not-overclockable Intel Core i5-6400 CPU can now be overclocked up to a 60% frequency boost with Sky OC on Asrock’s Z170 Pro4.” That motherboard is £92. It's unclear to me how they reached/measured the figure of 60% and what cooler they used; Hardware Unboxed benchmarks saw their i5 6400 sample manage a "31% increase", at "4.33GHz". Guru3d and other review sites still carry that 60% and Asrock graphs but most sites typically quote user figures of between 10 and 30% frequency boost, deepening on the CPU. The news sites mention that there is a test bios for MSI on the forums that enables the same non-K overclocking support but the advice is to wait for the full supported update from MSI).
Update 2 - there seem to be bios updates available on the forums for MSI Z170A XPOWER GAMING Titanium Edition. ASUS Maximus VIII Extreme, ASUS Maximus VIII Gene, ASUS Maximus VIII Hero, ASUS Maximus VIII Impact, ASUS Z170-A, ASUS Z170-Deluxe, ASUS Z170-E Non-K. Taking a look at one of the ASUS ones, there is the disclaimer that the bios might not be suitable for and might cause damage to a K-series i5 or i7 processor, so something to keep in mind if you're upgrading to a K-series model at a later date. It's unclear to me whether the bios updates are sanctioned by MSI and ASUS, or testers, as the downloads are from the forum, not the motherboard vendors. My preference would be to wait for stable, tested, verified releases.
Update 3 - "List of supported MSI Z170 models as of 18th of December:
Z170A XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM Edition E7968IMS.14U
Z170A GAMING M9 ACK E7966IMS.14T
Z170A GAMING M7 E7976IMS.19T
Z170A GAMING M5 E7977IMS.16T
Z170A-G45 GAMING E7977IMS.23T
Z170A GAMING M3 E7978IMS.A3T
Z170A GAMING PRO E7984IMS.16T
Z170A KRAIT GAMING E7984IMS.B5T
Z170I GAMING PRO AC E7980IMS.14T
Z170A TOMAHAWK / Z170A TOMAHAWK AC E7970IMS.33T
Z170M MORTAR E7972IMS.A2T
Z170A SLI PLUS E7998IMS.11T
Z170A-G43 PLUS E7970IMS.12T
Z170A PC MATE E7971IMS.A6T
Z170-A PRO E7971IMS.17T "
Again, this was a forum post with download links that weren't directly from MSI, so I won't post the link, here, would recommend MSI users who want to experiment, check for bios /beta bios updates on MSI's support page. MSI apparently included the understandable disclaimer: "Overclocking Intel non-K CPUs is not officially supported by Intel and the BIOS versions created by MSI unlocking this option are all beta versions. Intel may choose to disable this option at any time. At no point MSI can be taken responsible for disabling overclocking for non-K CPUs."
There is talk about the bios update and utility coming to cheap H170 motherboards but some suggest a hardware revision is planned. Most of the reviews using Asrock Z170 boards have been using the entry-level i3 6100 (which was overclocked to 4.7GHz - though it did well in games, it didn't do as well as expected, despite hyper-threading, though in user benchmarks it destroyed the non hyperthreaded G4400 Pentium, something also mentioned in the video review, link in comments below) and the budget i5 6400. I would be particularly interested to see how the higher binned i5 6500 does, at £159.98 (amazon).
For those not intending to BCLK overclock, the Skylake i5 6400 has the advantage over the older Haswell i5 4460 of better integrated graphics (the BCLK overclock disables integrated graphics, though I imagine most people contemplating overclocking will want to buy a graphics card, anyway) and brings the advantages of new features with the 1151 platform, which for me is the main appeal of Skylake. However, the older i5 4460 is still a good choice, because it beats the i5 6400 in some benchmarks, especially if you can't take advantage of the 1151 platforms new features. Digitalfoundry, though, do a good review on the extra frame rates achievable using faster memory with Skylake as compared with using faster memory with Haswell, but if trying to hit a tight budget, Haswell still has a lot going for it. My preference was for Skylake for the new features and, now, for the apparently stable BCLK overclock. There are known disadvantages to the workaround, which I mention in the post below.
Top comments
All comments (67)
Though interestingly single core performance is faster than the i7 6700K, games that take advantage of multiple cores and threads still see the flagship Intel i7 6700K holding a small fps advantage in some games, at a much lower power draw. Still, the BCLK overclock significantly narrows the performance gap (in games), for only £140, allowing you to spend the £90 saved on a better graphics card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqWNyhjhE6I
digitalfoundry - "Core i5 6500 4.5GHz BCLK Overclock vs i5 6600K/i7 6700K Gaming Benchmarks."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrfTcXQlsbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbyGapxiGLQ
update and this one bothers me a bit - one tester noted that he felt the only problem with the “special BIOS” being shared on the forums is that you can’t read out the core temperature, that it doesn't matter what tool you use, you will always see 100°C. He noted, however, that after clocking a lot of 6700K CPUs he feels he knows that anything below 1,40 Volt is fine with proper cooling. In reference to that, he hentions the X61 Kraken. He went on to say that even cheap and weaker air coolers can handle these CPUs at up to 1,40 Volt, more especially the i3 and Pentiums Skylake CPUs, as they only produce a relatively small amount of heat. A workaround would be to borrow (or buy and gift!) a cheap infra red thermometer (£10).
The source is a user named "der8auer", if you want to search for it; I'm reluctant to post the URL because the webpage has links to bios updates for MSI and ASUS that aren't, as far as I can see, direct from the motherboard vendors themselves. I am relatively risk averse and would wait for the reassuring security of updates direct from the motherboard vendors themselves. It seems to me that at this stage, despite a lot of users reporting great test results, things are still at the early testing stage. So, perhaps it makes sense to buy the CPU now, in the hope that Intel haven't yet updated their production line to prevent the BLCK overclock, and then wait until a stable/comparatively well tested beta bios is available from the motherboard vendors. Nothing is without some level of risk, the motherboard vendors always give that overclocking disclaimer and it seems to me at least as true, here, with the unsanctioned-by-Intel BLCK overclock, but I think that risk element is what sees more people going for the i5 6400, rather than a more expensive model. Also, the bang-for-your buck crowd like to spend as little as possible.
--- They are sold out --
here it is boxed at £151 before D&D
http://www.play-asia.com/intel-core-i5-6500-4x-3-20ghz-boxed/13/7096rz
Agree disabling the GPU for everything would be a big step back. If you can do it just for games it might work well.
Re warranty, though motherboard manufacturers routinely push overclock features and relative ease, Intel aren't known for their love of overclockers (sneaky workarounds, like this one), though I remember at one point they offered an insurance premium for owners who want to overclock, but that's for the unlocked K-series CPUs; Intel stand to lose a lot if people buy the cheapest i5 they can and BCLK overclock it, rather than shell out for a i5 6600K or i5 6700K. I would be very keen to see a long-term stress test of the i5 6400 with that BCLK overclock. My preferred option, at the moment, would be to go for a i5 6600 (with 2666GHz memory, re digitalfoundry and others findings) using the stock Intel cooler, which could be replaced a later date. When the warranty expires, I would apply a small BCLK overclock, provided the latest bios from whichever motherboard manufacturer supported it. Meantime, I am caught up in the excitement of this one, early days but the forums have gone bonkers! Could this mean a rush to buy before Intel introduce microcode to shut people out, I don't know. Christmas isn't a great time for me to be spending.
The cheapest that I can find from a UK supplier on the i5 6600, retail box with cooler and 3 year warranty, in stock, is ebuyer at £175.
But since I'm feeling like topping you I'll say: a dual i7-5960X is still better. :smile:... forget the fact that each CPU is £800 :smile:
The 5960x is a beast of a chip, but £800.... Ouch!
Considering the price bracket and the extra 4 cores, the 4790k is still not that far behind it going head to head.
http://www.game-debate.com/cpu/index.php?pid=2115&pid2=2103&compare=core-i7-5960x-8-core-3-0ghz-vs-core-i7-4790k-4-core-4-0ghz
Xeon E5-2698 v3 which is a 16 core monster with Hyperthreading. 16 physical and 16 logical cores = 32 threads.
http://ark.intel.com/products/81060/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2698-v3-40M-Cache-2_30-GHz