Just spotted this and there seems to be LOADS of flights in Sept / Oct for just £21.99 one way.
Departures from Belfast too, for you Norn Ironers!
Way too many to list, but you will have to be quick as these are being snapped up.
Never know, you might even see Fearghal...
Top comments
sydney871 to ultrak3wl
7 Jul 174#4
If you are prepared to sit in a middle seat, not next to your partner , follow their rules to the letter then you can fly at these fares.
Lou.Scotland
8 Jul 173#20
I can't believe how many people are complaining about seat allocation! If you want particular seats, or to sit together, then pay for it. If you don't want to pay then accept that you will get any seat. Also (disabilities and small children aside), does it MATTER if you sit beside your friend or relative, or if you can look out at the clouds, or if you have an aisle seat? It's only a flight, you're not going to live in the seat forever! It reminds me of primary school children squabbling about what seat they sit in and who it's next to!
brayboy
7 Jul 173#6
Yeah if you choose random allocated seating, to everyone's surprise you will be randomly allocated a seat
Latest comments (35)
Mentos
11 Jul 17#35
Well lets look at an example (taking what the person says at face value, but I've heard similar complaints from others):
I guess we could run the permutations to get the probability, but I'd be surprised if the seating plan ended up with the only allocatable middle seats (i,e. those not in free rows) 24 rows apart.
If you think about the methodology you believe they use:
1) 3 paying pax take up a row and have no impact on everyone else. (Anything above 3 and you consider them a 3 plus a separate fragment, i.e. 5 = 3 pax plus 2 pax).
2) 2 paying pax take up a row and leave either a window or aisle free (presume they would want to sit together).
3) 1 paying pax picks a window/aisle and leaves an allocatable "won't pay seat"
So if you don't pay you're first going to be allocated the seats generated by (3). The seats generated by (2) won't be allocated until all middle seats have been allocated. But that then means they risk running out of completely free rows for late bookers who are prepared to pay (do they move people retrospectively?, haven't heard anyone suggest they do).
The important factor to consider appears to be the ratio of group (3) to non paying Pax and how full the flight is. If its 50/50 and a very full flight then you're more likely to be separated. But there'd have to be many non paying single Pax having been allocated seats before a non paying couple to force people so far apart.
To me it seems like a very unique and unlikely set of circumstances which would yield the results people are complaining about. In most instances IMO with an unadulterated allocation policy they would be sitting in adjacent rows (albeit in middle seats) allowing easy seat swapping.
I presume the people complaining can see the seat map (so Ryan Air can sell them a seat)? If so perhaps someone will be able to confirm if there was a nearer "won't pay seat" available.
Master.G
11 Jul 17#31
I really don't understand why people complain about Ryanair. They are running a business, a successful one at that so they must be doing something right. They are not there to pander to your every whim just because you think the rules should not apply to you. They are offering a product for sale and everyone is free to choose to purchase it or not. None of the completely optional extras are hidden. The rules re baggage, boarding passes etc are perfectly transparent. If you fall foul of those rules, it is your fault, not the airline's. If you don't like the product, go shop elsewhere. I don't like cheese therefore i don't purchase it. I also don't feel the need to constantly complain about the shops that offer it for sale.
Mentos to Master.G
11 Jul 17#34
Why shouldn't people complain, how else would they influence a company's behaviour. And many of us disagree that their seating policy is transparent, you feel its innocent, we feel they are deliberately separating people (by several rows) unless they pay.
Moreover, i'm not sure why you feel the only choice consumers have is to take their business elsewhere. It's perfectly valid to also call out bad practice or behaviour you feel is unacceptable. Some may have limited options. I live near LHR so BA gets a lot of my business by virtue of my geographic location. If I lived near LTN the dominant operator at that airport (used to Ryan Air, but think it may be Easy Jet now?) would likely get my business. Moreover, say you need to fly to BTS for example, you're short of options.
The cheese analogy is erroneous and trivialises peoples quite fair complaints, as even if you only have one shop near you, it's very likely you will have many other options rather then cheese. If you're local shop only sold cheese and you had a two hour round trip to the next shop I think you may well be less laissez faire.
And this brings me back to my main point. People accept such behaviour in the case of Ryan Air, infact they defend it telling others to stop complaining and go elsewhere, but i'm certain they wouldn't like it if everyone followed suit. There's trying to up sell and then there's being unnecessarily punitive and quite simply insulting peoples intelligence in the process. The whole payment method surcharge was a very clear point in case. It was an unreasonable and deceitful (as they tried to claim it was due to processing charges) attempt to force an up sell. I recall people defending that by telling people to take their business elsewhere, but i'm certain those same people would be up in arms if every business they used had started doing the same. Imagine doing your cheese free shop and finding there was a £10 charge unless you used timbuktu banks debit card. And when enough people obtained that card, your local changed it to Antarctic Banks Visa.....
Master.G
11 Jul 17#33
That maybe the case. What we don't know is if those available seats were part of an empty row when the other members of the party were allocated a seat elsewhere. A row that it makes good business sense to keep available to be reserved for as long as possible.
Mentos
11 Jul 17#32
I believe people have complained there were free seats closer to them. i.e. middle row seats closer to them, which could have been allocated to other members of the party rather then sticking them on the other side of the plane.
Master.G
11 Jul 17#30
* Your intelligence :stuck_out_tongue:
A little bit more planning than that goes into it. Firstly, those people/groups wanting to sit together can check in 30 days before the flight, whereas the rest of us can only do it 4 days before. Some sole travellers will have booked window/aisle seats spread around the plane. So when those people who haven't paid the optional extra start checking in, they will be allocated the middle seats next to those people. That will leave rows free as long as possible for any late comers wanting to sit together. I agree that could be classed as not completely random, but would explain why some people are sat far apart. It will not always be the case that people are sat apart, but they are the only ones who complain about the seating policy.
Mentos
10 Jul 171#29
I'm afraid even your take on their seating policy doesn't make sense.
Firstly, if they randomly allocate all the middle seats, then eventually subsequent paying customers will end up having to sit separately. For every middle seat used you create a separated window and aisle seat as well, So clearly that can't be the sole methodology behind their seat allocation. I've never seen an airline allocate seats in this way, as usually one of the drivers is people wanting to sit together, not just having an aisle or window seat. But i'm sure Ryan Air know this full well :/
Secondly if it's as innocent as you suggest, why place passengers so far apart. Why stick them on opposite ends of the aircraft, there are two middle seats in every row after all. The only reason to do that would be to make it difficult for them to (as you suggested) swap seats after boarding. And thereby encourage them to cough up.
As I said in my previous post, if every business behaved in such a manner life would become annoying at every turn. There's trying to up sell and then there's insulting you're intelligence whilst trying to pick your pocket at every single turn by making life un-necessarily difficult.
Destard
10 Jul 17#28
Worst bloody airline ever.
DADSCAB
10 Jul 17#27
Imagine if you turned up at the check-in desk with innocence and a smile, you'd get completely ripped to shreds.
Superchulo
8 Jul 172#24
I fly with Ryanair without paying any more than the fare. It is easy. Jyst say no to everything. All extras are optional.
neiiilers to Superchulo
8 Jul 171#25
Follow this man. You want to sit beside your wife? Pay extra. Simple. You want to be allocated with seats beside each other for free? Fly BA, pay £200 more and get delayed.
bigdeal66 to Superchulo
9 Jul 17#26
Iagree bit of peace and quiet for a few hours from the other big half :smiley:
Master.G
8 Jul 17#23
You're still missing the point. Random 'middle' seats will never be together. If they sit 2 people together, one premium seat (window/aisle) will have been used up. Someone may have wanted to pay for that seat. Why should you have priority over them if they are willing to pay for it? Also, by reducing the revenue on that flight, you push up the base price for everyone. Ryanair is what it is. They offer a product and invite people to pay for it. Everyone is free to take up the offer or not. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But,please, don't complain. I don't like cheese so i never buy it. I don't buy it and then complain about the cost or quality. Nor do i buy a different product, one that i do like, and then complain that the cheese manufacturer doesn't make a cheese that i do like. Why would anyone think that an airline should be any different?
Oh, and thanks. I'll pass your compliment onto her.
Dawsy
8 Jul 172#22
The seats are booked at the same time. So most systems would allocate the next available free seats. Ryan air purposefully move those seats so they are all separated.
Even random would be together some time. But as proven Ryan air ensure that does not happen.
Nice avatar btw
Dawsy
7 Jul 172#19
They are not randomly allocated. They are intentionally separated seats.
Watchdog did the statistics and you have more chance of winning the lottery now than getting seats close to anyone else in your party. This is not random. It's fully intended.
Master.G to Dawsy
8 Jul 17#21
You, and the Watchdog statistician missed the pertinent point. They are randomly allocated 'middle' seats until all the middle seats are taken. Then they are randomly allocated window/aisle seats. Oddly enough, you are not going to get two middle seats side by side when the seats are in blocks of three.
Lou.Scotland
8 Jul 173#20
I can't believe how many people are complaining about seat allocation! If you want particular seats, or to sit together, then pay for it. If you don't want to pay then accept that you will get any seat. Also (disabilities and small children aside), does it MATTER if you sit beside your friend or relative, or if you can look out at the clouds, or if you have an aisle seat? It's only a flight, you're not going to live in the seat forever! It reminds me of primary school children squabbling about what seat they sit in and who it's next to!
bigdeal66
7 Jul 17#18
Wife's booked,well worth it :smile:
Master.G
7 Jul 17#17
Enough people complained when they reduced it from 7 days to 4 days last November. You have the option to check in up to 4 hours before departure. As a solo traveller, i leave it late. That way, i'm sure of getting either a window or aisle seat as all the middle seats will already have been allocated. If they did it the way you suggest, i think there would be more disappointed/annoyed customers. Plenty would take the risk of not reserving seats in the expectation of being able to choose them in the last 24 hours. Only a few would be successful.
Master.G
7 Jul 171#14
The Ryanair spokesperson on Watchdog could have been clearer but what he said did make sense. The most popular seats for those who choose to pay for them are the window and aisle seats. Therefore, it makes sense to fill up the middle seats first with those who are happy not to pay the optional extra. Otherwise, you would end up with some of those willing to pay ending up with worse seats than those who didn't pay. It also makes good business sense. By optomizing the potential for extra revenue, it enables them to offer such low base prices to everyone. As for those passengers who stated "we were sat ten rows apart even though the seat next to me was empty", get up and move once all the passengers are on board.
sydney871 to Master.G
7 Jul 17#16
That make sense but how about allowing check in 24 hours before the flight leaves for those who have have not paid like other airlines and try and allow choosing seats from whatever is left maybe keeping a few reserved for people still willing to pay?
sydney871
7 Jul 17#15
Maybe next time try checking in at the latest possible time hopefully getting better seats.
lassy
7 Jul 171#13
I fly with Ryanair 4 times a year to Tenerife and have never been sat apart from my wife until we flew back 2 weeks ago, and the excuses made by their management on watch dog was so pathetic more or less accusing us of being thick with their BS, its plain to see what they are doing.
UKTopGun
7 Jul 17#10
I've flown with Ryanair a few times last year and the 'random seat allocation' has always sat us next to each other? Has this only very recently change?
A question to those who werent sat next to each other - did you check in during the airport or before?
Kigo1 to UKTopGun
7 Jul 17#11
Yes, they've just changed it a month ago or so. Now they even have a line on there which is stating sth like.. "you are 14 rows from your fellow passenger away, book a seat to sit next to them"
moory6 to UKTopGun
7 Jul 17#12
I checked in online 4 days before flight which is earliest you can for free allocated and was surprised that we were not together as previously we have been so definitely a new thing.
moory6
7 Jul 171#9
I can vouch for their seat policy. If travelling alone it's fine. I just flew back from Murcia with two 15 year olds and we were allocated 3 middle seats even though we were obviously on same booking and 15 year olds are too young on ryanair to travel without an adult. Think it was around £33 to assign seats together.
Mentos
7 Jul 171#8
I agree, if you play it to the letter then you are likely to pay what's on the tin. But it is a moving target with these guys and many of the second tier airports they fly from.
As customers catch on they move the goal posts. So you could find you book and by October things have changed a little. I'm sure many people purchased months ago with the expectation of sitting together unless they are unlucky, only for Ryan Air to change their "random" allocation to ensure you will sit apart unless you pay. Reminiscent of the games they used to play with the payment method surcharge, forcing you to use obscure methods of payment. And now the airports they use are getting in on the act.
I'm not saying flying is ever a pleasant experience. Used to fly regularly for work and despite them picking up the tab for business/first it's always a tiring experience you don't look forward to. But this lot (and some of the airports they fly from) are just starting to take the ****. Actively, unashamedly without any reasonable cause trying to screw you at every turn. Just imagine if every company behaved in this manner, sell you something cheap then deliberately made your life hell to squeeze extra out of you :/
sydney871
7 Jul 17#7
If everyone refuses to pay where they sit then after all the middle row seats have been occupied Ryanair will have no choice but to use the aisle and window seats. But that does not mean that families and friends will sit next to each other.
The only I can think of is that people start swapping seats before taking off and cause chaos, delay flights and cause Ryanair to change its policy.
brayboy
7 Jul 173#6
Yeah if you choose random allocated seating, to everyone's surprise you will be randomly allocated a seat
MarkShopper
7 Jul 17#5
If you are travelling with family and friends note you have to pay extra otherwise you won't be sitting together. Ryanair was on BBC Watchdog about this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p057dm8f
ultrak3wl
7 Jul 171#1
Ryanair might sound cheap on their headline prices but trust me they will find some way to get loads more money out of you.
sydney871 to ultrak3wl
7 Jul 174#4
If you are prepared to sit in a middle seat, not next to your partner , follow their rules to the letter then you can fly at these fares.
sydney871
7 Jul 17#3
According to their website they have 20% off from Scotland so it appears that these routes are reduced only. Others from Stanstead for example appears to be dearer
C0mm0n_Sense
7 Jul 171#2
That's an amazing deal for Murica!
Oh, it's Murcia. :neutral_face:
![Fresh Breakfast Meat Box (Using code) @ Campbells Meat [Haggis / Lorne Sausage / Bacon / Black Pudding & More]](/images/topics/208684_1.jpg)
![[Xbox One] Q. u. b. e: Director's Cut on Deals with Gold](/images/topics/208716_1.jpg)
Opening post
Departures from Belfast too, for you Norn Ironers!
Way too many to list, but you will have to be quick as these are being snapped up.
Never know, you might even see Fearghal...
Top comments
Latest comments (35)
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-flights-middle-seats-assigned-passengers-pay-reserve-changed-seating-policy-a7750581.html
I guess we could run the permutations to get the probability, but I'd be surprised if the seating plan ended up with the only allocatable middle seats (i,e. those not in free rows) 24 rows apart.
If you think about the methodology you believe they use:
1) 3 paying pax take up a row and have no impact on everyone else. (Anything above 3 and you consider them a 3 plus a separate fragment, i.e. 5 = 3 pax plus 2 pax).
2) 2 paying pax take up a row and leave either a window or aisle free (presume they would want to sit together).
3) 1 paying pax picks a window/aisle and leaves an allocatable "won't pay seat"
So if you don't pay you're first going to be allocated the seats generated by (3). The seats generated by (2) won't be allocated until all middle seats have been allocated. But that then means they risk running out of completely free rows for late bookers who are prepared to pay (do they move people retrospectively?, haven't heard anyone suggest they do).
The important factor to consider appears to be the ratio of group (3) to non paying Pax and how full the flight is. If its 50/50 and a very full flight then you're more likely to be separated. But there'd have to be many non paying single Pax having been allocated seats before a non paying couple to force people so far apart.
To me it seems like a very unique and unlikely set of circumstances which would yield the results people are complaining about. In most instances IMO with an unadulterated allocation policy they would be sitting in adjacent rows (albeit in middle seats) allowing easy seat swapping.
I presume the people complaining can see the seat map (so Ryan Air can sell them a seat)? If so perhaps someone will be able to confirm if there was a nearer "won't pay seat" available.
Moreover, i'm not sure why you feel the only choice consumers have is to take their business elsewhere. It's perfectly valid to also call out bad practice or behaviour you feel is unacceptable. Some may have limited options. I live near LHR so BA gets a lot of my business by virtue of my geographic location. If I lived near LTN the dominant operator at that airport (used to Ryan Air, but think it may be Easy Jet now?) would likely get my business. Moreover, say you need to fly to BTS for example, you're short of options.
The cheese analogy is erroneous and trivialises peoples quite fair complaints, as even if you only have one shop near you, it's very likely you will have many other options rather then cheese. If you're local shop only sold cheese and you had a two hour round trip to the next shop I think you may well be less laissez faire.
And this brings me back to my main point. People accept such behaviour in the case of Ryan Air, infact they defend it telling others to stop complaining and go elsewhere, but i'm certain they wouldn't like it if everyone followed suit. There's trying to up sell and then there's being unnecessarily punitive and quite simply insulting peoples intelligence in the process. The whole payment method surcharge was a very clear point in case. It was an unreasonable and deceitful (as they tried to claim it was due to processing charges) attempt to force an up sell. I recall people defending that by telling people to take their business elsewhere, but i'm certain those same people would be up in arms if every business they used had started doing the same. Imagine doing your cheese free shop and finding there was a £10 charge unless you used timbuktu banks debit card. And when enough people obtained that card, your local changed it to Antarctic Banks Visa.....
A little bit more planning than that goes into it. Firstly, those people/groups wanting to sit together can check in 30 days before the flight, whereas the rest of us can only do it 4 days before. Some sole travellers will have booked window/aisle seats spread around the plane. So when those people who haven't paid the optional extra start checking in, they will be allocated the middle seats next to those people. That will leave rows free as long as possible for any late comers wanting to sit together. I agree that could be classed as not completely random, but would explain why some people are sat far apart. It will not always be the case that people are sat apart, but they are the only ones who complain about the seating policy.
Firstly, if they randomly allocate all the middle seats, then eventually subsequent paying customers will end up having to sit separately. For every middle seat used you create a separated window and aisle seat as well, So clearly that can't be the sole methodology behind their seat allocation. I've never seen an airline allocate seats in this way, as usually one of the drivers is people wanting to sit together, not just having an aisle or window seat. But i'm sure Ryan Air know this full well :/
Secondly if it's as innocent as you suggest, why place passengers so far apart. Why stick them on opposite ends of the aircraft, there are two middle seats in every row after all. The only reason to do that would be to make it difficult for them to (as you suggested) swap seats after boarding. And thereby encourage them to cough up.
As I said in my previous post, if every business behaved in such a manner life would become annoying at every turn. There's trying to up sell and then there's insulting you're intelligence whilst trying to pick your pocket at every single turn by making life un-necessarily difficult.
Oh, and thanks. I'll pass your compliment onto her.
Even random would be together some time. But as proven Ryan air ensure that does not happen.
Nice avatar btw
Watchdog did the statistics and you have more chance of winning the lottery now than getting seats close to anyone else in your party. This is not random. It's fully intended.
A question to those who werent sat next to each other - did you check in during the airport or before?
As customers catch on they move the goal posts. So you could find you book and by October things have changed a little. I'm sure many people purchased months ago with the expectation of sitting together unless they are unlucky, only for Ryan Air to change their "random" allocation to ensure you will sit apart unless you pay. Reminiscent of the games they used to play with the payment method surcharge, forcing you to use obscure methods of payment. And now the airports they use are getting in on the act.
I'm not saying flying is ever a pleasant experience. Used to fly regularly for work and despite them picking up the tab for business/first it's always a tiring experience you don't look forward to. But this lot (and some of the airports they fly from) are just starting to take the ****. Actively, unashamedly without any reasonable cause trying to screw you at every turn. Just imagine if every company behaved in this manner, sell you something cheap then deliberately made your life hell to squeeze extra out of you :/
The only I can think of is that people start swapping seats before taking off and cause chaos, delay flights and cause Ryanair to change its policy.
Oh, it's Murcia. :neutral_face: