Are you the sort of driver who thinks everyone else is getting in your way, by any chance? :smile:

Indicators still an optional extra?

Sub 9 second 0-60 and 130mph top speed is hardly pathetic. You do know engine tech has come on somewhat?
https://listers.co.uk/Reviews/Audi/A4/11079

Certainly looks the part from what I can see.

And what demands is Merkel making to Britain exactly?

Again - you are trying to extrapolate your problem-free driving to the rest of VAG. The more robust six-speed and seven-speed wet clutch DSGs/s-tronics fitted to engines over 1.8 litres are generally fine, however there was and continues to be a problem with the seven-speed dry clutch DSGs/s-tronics fitted to 1.2s, 1.4s and 1.6 diesels. Added to the 2012 recall/synthetic/mineral debacle where some VAG dealers took the view that the dry clutch 7-speed DSG needed an oil change every 40,000 miles, but the official VAG line was that they didn't, suggests otherwise.

I didn't say others haven't. However, the issues are probably not as widespread as some people would say. On the Internet, always more complaints than praises are posted.

I love S-Tronic, and my fourth Audi (to be purchased in a couple of months) will also have S-tronic.

I haven't had any real issues either or breakdowns with any of my cars. Current one has 45,000 miles and is almost 4 years old.

Dont give the Germans any more cash , boycott all their cars and produce now . Look at the demands Merkel is making from brexit . Hit them hard early , and buy elsewhere .

well isn't that a good thin if ur on a lease deal isn't it covered by the manufacturer or whom ever owns the actual car

Percentage wise (from people I know) they aren't as unreliable as their reputation suggests, but still more unreliable than a conventional auto (also in experience of people I know). I can't think of a torque converter box failing but I know somebody with a mk 5 GTI had a lot of trouble and I had a B8 S4 and the mechatronic unit went on that (in warranty thank god).

You personally have not. Does not mean others haven't..

I have driven Audis with DSG/S-tronic gearboxes over the last 11 years years, and never had any issues. I kept each car for at least 3 years.

PCP you can walk away from if you have paid off 50% of the balance IIRC, note that's balance not payments. Your fine with a PCP is having to sell the car when possibly being in negative equity (as you aren't leasing it, you bought it on finance). Bear in mind with a lease such as this you are stuck with the car unless you do pay heavily to get out of it so it may not be for you.

hi,

I'm in to the second year of a 2 year PCP deal with ford. Am I allowed to opt out early.. do I have to pay a fine? this seems like a much better deal. I've heard you're allowed to walk away half way through the term ?

Depends what you want from a car.

That's what I meant by centre screen (ie between the dials) but I didn't make myself clear enough

And this is the new MY (so not stock) because of the leather/alcantara which wasn't on the 2017 MY

With orders placed now (not previous manufacturing year stock cars) you DO get a colour DIS (Driver Information System). It changed a few weeks back.

Yes.

You could buy a brand new Dacia Sandero outright, own it outright, and have change after 2 years... is getting from A to B slightly faster or out-accelerating that BMW at the traffic lights really worth thousands of pounds?

Which company was that from? That sounds an amazing deal. I'm looking for similar for a Tiguan R line.

Ohh, really? I thought they were the BMW clientele!

What happens if someone borrows your car and gets scratches or bumper scrapes on it? that will answer your question.

think he may mean one of these 2 which were both just under 4800 with lower mileage:

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/audi-a4-saloon-14t-fsi-sport-4dr-lease-1300-down-and-142-a-month-inc-vat-vehiclesforbusiness-2380110

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/audi-a4-14tfsi-sport-11891-pcm-1800-deposit-240-admin-fee-2-year-lease-5k-miles-477493-national-vehicle-solutions-2286897

I think this beats it for the same car and mileage?
9+23, £1,695 down and £188 a month!
https://www.selectcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/audi/a4/saloon/14t_fsi_s_line_4dr_[leatheralc]/80184.html

sorry mate, meant for the other guy

Did you post it on here?

The cheapest one posted was around a year ago @ £5568

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/audi-a4-1-4tfsi-sport-2-year-10-000-miles-p-a-6-23-lease-192-incl-vat-per-month-2479905

last year they had the 1.4t sport 10k per year for about £4200...that was a hot deal

yes

Will you need gap insurance?

To bring discussion back to the deal and car itself, in Reading reviews I came access some interesting info about the suspension on the S line that may be of interest:

Firstly, our favourite set-up is the passive Comfort Dynamic, standard on SE and Sport trims. Go for one of these and stick with the default 17in alloy wheels (larger diameter wheels tend to make the ride harsher), and you’ll have the best riding of all the A4s; as its name suggests, the comfort set-up puts comfort first and deals effectively with all manner of lumps and bumps, while controlling body movements over dips and crests extremely well.

Upper-level S line versions come with passive Sport suspension as standard. This is stiffer and lowered by 20mm, which further sharpens up the body control, but at the expense of extra bumpiness at low speeds. That penalty isn’t worthwhile in our opinion, so swap it for the Comfort Dynamic set-up we mentioned earlier, something Audi lets you do free of charge.

I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that just because someone drives for fun/status/showing off vs it purely being a fantastic mode of transport makes you an inferior driver. Just because you depend on a car for transport doesn't make you a good driver. For me, someone's ability to drive well has nothing to do with what type/price of car they drive

I see. Thanks.

Sline does include the colour centre screen though IIRC which would show the sat nav but what that pic shows is the virtual cockpit which as you say is part of the tech package

It can if the car has a technology package extra which costs £1400.

I would assume these specific cars in the deal do not include that.

what happens if a lease car gets scratches or bumper scrapes as inevitably happens in supermarket car parks. Do you have a damage waiver or something

Any chance of an Automatic?

I never leased and probably never will but this is very tempting hot deal

I have 19s on my S5 and it's not too bad. They are nowhere near as bad as they were 5 to 10 years ago ride wise IMO

As with most Audis, it's best to stick with a small rim and a higher profile tyre for the sake of one's health.

No they are some black multi spokes that aren't on Sline. I would call them a downgrade but if the ride on a black edition was an issue it's an option if you wanted the other stuff

Aren't those simply the same wheels you get on the S-Line as it is technically a downgrade?

Its identical to the A5 inside, the car itself is more or less the same thing but the A5 has a wider track IIRC. And of course is a different body style and shape

The black edition has some (naff looking IMO) 18"s at no cost

The interior looks very similar to my new A5 which I lease as well. I find it a bit cluttered especially on the steering wheel but I love the car itself.

A colleague has ordered a black edition because it worked out £10 a month more after he had put the £150 option wheels on Sline and he was keen on what it added

hmm I did read that it could be a harsh ride.

No unless you want a more uncomfortable ride with 19" wheels instead.

Besides, you may be better off paying less for this car.

does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is worth paying the extra for the black edition?

Yes I know its 20k over the lease (rather than them checking at one year) but I was concerned about them saying it was for 10k over the two years.

Did you just ask IF you'll have to
pay for damage?

Good spot. They've since confirmed that it is 10k per year, but that they don't check the mielage annually so its only at the end of the lease meaning that as long as its 20k over two years you're fine.

The website specifically states "Annual mileage : 10000" so I would query that! They have the 5kpa as £193 p/m on 9+23

I inquired about this deal and got the below feedback to my questions, key being that the Mileage is 10k total for two years (5k a year) which is a deal breaker to me and means that the original description should be edited:

====================================
The deal may finish at any time

Delivery is currently mid September

The mileage is for the whole of the contract, not per year

We are only quoting maintenance at point of finance application, as this does not affect the rental and can be added if required

Thanks for the deal OP I have just booked a test drive for this model with my local Audi. I am really interested in how the engine performs in comparison to my existing diesel. I would like to make my own opinion on performance and after all a test drive is free. Voted Hot

Look up the BVRLA Guide to see what is deemed acceptable

so after two years can you walk away or is there any penalty if you leave a small dent or a few grazes inside ? sorry new to this thinking of leasing .

Check out the Audi UK Twitter account, @AudiUKCare for customer complaints

Man that really annoys me does that. Its normally the reason why there are queues when merging. I love it when the HGVs block the two lanes to stop people doing it.

Still more reliable than Audi....

You do not need to be in the trade to realise that diesel residuals are not sustainable, Bertie and given a large majority of the car leasing racket flogs such cars, it's going to get messy. But of course, believe what you would like to believe. It is a free country.

I would keep the Merc for 7 or 8 years i would have thought. I dont do many miles though. So am concerned about the DPF problem. Short supermarket hops and errands. Car, happily, would not be used for a commute. I really prefer a petrol engine, but as has been said, across the board all makers seem to have ditched petrol on an epic scale. I could wait and pick one of these up 2nd hand in a while, but then theres all this stuff about pistons smashing to bits. AAAARGGH..
I look at the interiors of premium modern 2h cars costing £15k apprx and am so underwhelmed generally.
I have an 09 3 door Focus Zetec S with all the toys and it still holds its own in the looks dept.
Its just a bit underpowered. \\ Ramble

This happened to me recently and I pulled over well in advance of the lane narrowing sign (in my BMW!! :wink:) and I too watched as people sped down the right hand lane and tried to merge in at the last minute.

Strangely, and rather unsurprisingly, it was an entire multitude of makes/models/driver types from Audi right up to Volvos and everything in between.

But then I don't get mad about cheap or premium brands, I drive the car that fits my current needs for style/performance/quality. :wink:

Agreed. Strangely they have an M760li or something now which is a huge barge of a beast!

I know my Audi/BMW's but never sure on Mercs.

Does the S Line definitely have that Sat Nav built in to the dash?
I think that looks fairly freakin awesome personally.

In which bit? - he owned you on multiple posts with his fundamental understanding of the motor industry and the only other people I have encountered that relay like that are drawing on their experience and knowledge gathered whilst being within the trade.

However feel free to believe it is a like for like comparison in comparing the short term financing of 364bn over 3 years (on average) with assets that have backing (manufacturers are predicted to take biggest impact if the bubble were to pop) and is still viable with 45% drop in value to the estimate (Standard & Poor’s), the ability on defaults/arrears to minimise impact and a default rate around 0.02% compares to the 1tn over 25 to 40 years with unknown securities that are harder to act upon (believe the prediction was decades to untangle).

I suppose a lot of it depends on what one's definition of "driving properly" is! Lots of people drive badly in a legal manner.

That's the Sport model. This deal is for an S Line.

That's a "Sport" not "S-Line". And good for you having a C-Max that's faster than this (which you seem to have changed your mind on).

Just looked it up out of interest. The fastest 0-62 on the current CMax is 9.5 seconds as far as I can see, this is 8.7 0-62

Not sure I agree. A car is a fantastic labour-saving device that is for many people one of the most convenient transport systems ever. As we all know however for lots of people it is more than that it is something in which to have fun, establish social status, and generally show off. You would therefore expect that those driving expensive cars with levels of power not strictly necessary for pure transport would by definition be less focused on mundane traffic safety rules.

Not sure this is a "deal".

£400 cheaper here - https://www.stablevehiclecontracts.co.uk/audi-a4-saloon-1.4-tfsi-150ps-sport

a C Max is probably faster than this.

Three years? 24 months, no?

It had been previously mentioned before you even asked the question.

So why did VAG have a recall in 2012?

Oh Bertie...He's owned nothing alas because he is fundamentally incorrect.

No - I got the same details from the Bank of England papers on car loans. Nice try.

P.S. It's embarrassing.

I read neither. Try again.


Leasing is a form of finance. You are borrowing a car you do not own. If you don't think that is lending, then I do not know what to say to that.


But that is the problem that is occurring now: people who definitely can't afford the car are taking out these lease deals. Surely you can see that?


Those ABSs are not segregated into sub-prime. The ones by actual banks are. Check again.


And that is already happening in the UK.

In the same way that there tends (in my opinion) to be a slight trend towards certain cars with the people who do 40mph everywhere regardless of if it's a 60 or 20. But it's not enough to suggest people who drive these cars are bad drivers. Also if you listed these cars and the pushing in/tailgating stereotype cars nearly all the cars you see on the road would be listed!

Agreed but it's still fun and it passes the time! I like to do some completely non-scientific surveys when sitting in a queue of traffic at the point where the road narrows/merges. I note the marques of vehicles that are the last to get into the correct lane and/or force their way in and basically won't wait their turn - interesting to see the proportion of these that are say BMW/Mercs/AUDI/VW/Corsas/White Vans etc. Try it some time it's quite enlightening! If you can't manage to do this then perhaps its because your one of those who won't wait their turn (embarrassed)

Mercedes have the C43 now too, which would match the S4 i guess.

Technically BMW would need an M340i otherwise a 340i M Sport is just a trim level with a specific engine.

Yes BVRLA have a booklet. I was issued with a copy when I took my lease out.

Look up the BVRLA guide, most lease companies use this as their standard.

As for the charges they tend to be reasonable to the point that you wouldn't get the work done at a main dealer for less, but if you sort it yourself it would be cheaper. I got some paint touched up on my Golf and replaced a front grille that had a disagreement with a hare and then it went back with no issues.

There are national agreed guidelines for what constitutes fair wear and tear - so you don't need to worry unduly about this. But if there are deep scratches or car park dents, they will be noticed and you are liable - best to make sure you have a few hundred saved to get these sorted before the final inspection.

Depends how bad the marks and scratches are. If it's fair wear and tear you should be OK up to a point. Large marks or scratches will be classed as damage and should really be repaired before you hand the car back.

How badly do you get charged for scratches or marks on a leased car?

Oddly enough I used to own cars, but put the money I had tied up by the car into my mortgage and have leased ever since. Why tie money up in something that is depreciating?

I had a Golf through VWFS (who is most likely funding this deal) and it went back with no charges.

Completely missing the point. Why "afford" it if it's cheaper to lease it anyway?

Depends really on how long you intend to keep the car. If you're only going to keep the Merc a couple of years (as per this lease term) then you can expect to drop about £4k to £5k on depreciation. On top of that you'll be paying interest charges and road tax which are both included in the lease. Not sure what warranty is being offered on the Merc, but the Audi is fully covered for the 2yr term of the lease. The Audi will also come on brand new tyres, whereas the Merc will probably be as it comes. You'd also need to check the Merc's service history and ensure it isn't due for any expensive scheduled maintenance at that kind of mileage.

As long as the Merc proves to be reliable, that should become cheaper for each year you keep it.

As for DPF issues, that really depends on your driving style and whether or not your commute gives you chance to get any revs on it to burn off any excess soot. If you do lots of short journeys and drive everywhere like Miss Daisy that may be a problem.

Bought my C class from Car Giant, no problems at all. I think that a lot of the cars have had repairs in some way, also upon inspection you will notice nicks here and there that they don't mention on an advert

Seems expensive to me.

What are the downsides to a deal like this?
https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/mercedes/c220/RV15WBG
Seems a hell of a lot of car for the money.
DPF troubles ahead? Hammered by gubmints?
Cos im quite tempted to trade my focus for either this type of Merc and own it, or the Audi deal here.

I've been driving Audis for the past 12 years, but also have had BMWs and Mercs over that time. Audi is by far the best interior of any. I'd place Mercs above BMW.

Then pay a hell of a lot more money with the interest that goes on top of that. Including the interest and depreciation value which will add up including maintenance costs incase anything goes wrong. There's arguments for both sides, don't be so ignorant.

how do you know? you've been buying the same make for 14 years...

£6636 over 3 years & you return the car back to Audi who will penalise you for every mark inside & out! Why not buy a cheaper car & it's yours? People are too snobby nowadays, businesses are another matter but private buyers just trying to show their money ( of lack of ) invest in your kids future / property....

Car threads seem to attract people who can't state their opinion without adding in a few needless insults for anyone that disagrees, or else childish exaggerations like 'everyone that drives an Audi is a moron'. Not really sure why they feel the need to do that? As you say, they often seem quite knowledgeable.

Madness. don't know why people are so desperate to drive around in a car that they couldn't afford. why not spend £200 odd quid paying a loan on a older car that has already lost its showroom value and you will actually own instead of spunking 2k+ on borrowing someone else's car.

Anyone know the cost of this on 16k mileage?

The pic in the get deal link looks more like the S4 at the Geneva Motor Show, I think.

In the UK, it's mirror, signal, manoeuvre. :wink:

I think you are both confused. ding is talking about this engine's predecessor, which was both supercharged and turbocharged. And yes this engine is available in a lot of cars, not sure why that is a bad thing though.

Supercharged with a turbo? You mean turbocharged, a supercharger isn't driven by exhaust gases. It's a 1.4 engine, of course its used across the VAG range, I'm sure I've read somewhere it's the same one in a Seat Ibiza. If a Bentley uses 2 VW VR6's mated together to make a "W12" so of course a mediocre brand like Audi will share parts with trash like Skoda, Seat, VW.
Buy a 320d, better in every way.

Calm down, it was a joke.

Btw, I drive a Honda.

I agree I see all sorts of cars being driven badly

To believe there is a correlation between one's ability to drive properly and the type of car they drive is fanciful to say the least.

thank you <3

Yep that's how I see it

Hilarious comments on here. Standard mentality of so many people on the roads these days.

Nobody cares about your opinion. The more you share it, the more people will realise you're a untc.

Great deal - Heat.

M Sport - S Line - AMG

M2 - RS3 - A45 AMG

M3/M4 - RS4 - C63

And then it would be:

M140/M240 - S3 - Merc?

340i - S4 - Merc?

Audi S series are on league with the 40i Beemers, RS would match M cars.

:smiley:

I had an S4 for three years bought new from 09 to 12 and it had a few issues in the time I had it. But they were also good at sorting the issues out. I am in another Audi now, giving them another chance having had two other VAG cars in the meantime and three previously with no issues makes me think I just had a bad one.

*Laughs in German*

They were also naturally aspirated meaning they had a completely different power curve to these engines.

Speaking from the experience of friends and family, Audi's are unreliable but the customer service is fantastic when they do go wrong. I expect there are others who have leased or bought them and had zero complaints but I'd personally Steer clear - excuse the pun

You get the odd person chime in with "why lease I have a 20 year old car that gets me from A to B" but they soon get told to sling their hook! Possibly more on the specific deal threads than the main deal threads though

Brian: People, we should be struggling together.
PFJ member: [in a headlock] We are!
Brian: No, we should be rising up against the common enemy.
All: The Judean People's Front?!
Brian: No, no, the Romans!

On a more serious note - get yourself over to Pistonheads and the leasing deals thread over there. Great deals and none of the nonsense you're getting on here....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=255&t=1663457

Yes.
So is the optional "New car smell"....that will be £95.00 plus vat .........Sir!

Replying to the wrong person I reckon

Which hot hatch from around 10 years ago had under 150bhp? And I mean actual hot hatches.

Golf GTi, Focus ST, Astra VXR all 200bhp+.

The sub 150 cars, such as early Golf GTis, XR3is, Pug GTIs etc. were all under 1000kg.

Just as well i'm here to set them all straight. :sunglasses:

Yeah course she was, but she went for the second hand Renault Captur in the end, blah blah.

To be fair, I don't care if she buys one or not, my sarcasm was aimed at your 'it's a fantastic engine, so much so that my wife took one for a quick spin, months ago' none-point.

for your info, hot hatches 10 years ago weighed more than 800 or 900 kg. in fact only a small number have ever weighed that much. most were over 1000kg

"Leasing threads bring all the plebs to the yard and they're like, I know everything about cars."

eh, what a moron. what do you mean....no intention of buying one. she was going to buy one actually

seeing as the answer is a single number, why make everyone do the same sum? Every deal on here is listed as an averaged monthly cost so it seems fair to put it in the same comparable format.

Yeh, uglier car, worse interior and cheaper plastics. my colleague had an octavia, sure it was fine but the fit and plastics were pretty terrible worse than my pug 307 xsi and nowhere near the quality of my s3

spot on, this has the same engine as used in the a3 and q2. both fairly nippy and more power than my peugeot 307 xsi

Why are you people fighting? As someone in his early 20s I learn so much from these threads and when people talk about their experiences. I wouldn't have thought about half of the things of questions if no one mentioned them

Just stop fighting .

Who said she had no intention of buying? Bit unfair to say that I think. Maybe the engine put her off! In all seriousness 150hp is enough for most people. I wouldn't want it but I can respect that if it's the difference between having a nice car with a small ish engine or a cheaper car with a more powerful engine some will take the car over the engine. Not everyone drives for enjoyment but want a comfortable semi luxurious barge to go around in.

not had an issue with my 2014 s3 and nor have my s3 and rs3 owning friends. Sounds like a load of made up rubbish to me. Every make has issues, range rover and bmw are tge worst but they make decent cars people want. actually my most reliable car is my 2nd car a 14 year old peugeot 307 xsi which other than a few software issues in the first couple of months and a new module at 3.5 years has been faultless for the past 10 years

'Lol', it must be an amazing engine, if your wife wasted half an hour of a car salesman's life a few months ago test piloting one, 'lol', with no intention of buying, 'lol'.

And those hot hatches you speak of weighed around 800-900kg. 'Lol'.

They'll be buying them at a fraction of the price that a private seller would be, and as you say getting them as a batch to shift old stock.

Chances are Audi will have a buy back option on them, so very little risk to the leasing company.

No. It's 100% factual, but because you have paid 'Audi tax' on a Skoda, you find it difficult to accept.

for all you know they may have done a deal to shift old stock, some lease companies do but I always wonder if they make any money. could be a loss leader I guess, risky

OMG, 'Royals' is the biggest k**bhead I have EVER encountered on an Internet forum, EVER. Are you okay mate??

thats me an A class knob too :confused:

said the vauxhall driver that drives with a blindfold on

because it's s..t

eh, never laughed so much what a stupid comment

I expect my 310hp Audi would do the trick.

Correct. But it will be v similar. The alloy wheels will be an inch smaller, and it'll be either black or white, unless you pay extra for metallic paint and / or the wheel upgrade.

but you can't drive quick anyway. esp near on the m4 between j3 and 12.

They were a £1k option on my TTS.

lol have you actually driven a vehicle with that engine, it's more powerful than hot hatches from 10 years ago 150bhp. same engine as the 1.4 in the q2 that my wife test drove few months ago

copied what from bmw. lol. have you seen bmw interiors. my mate has an m3 which us a fine car but the interior is just hideous and clearly been added to each gen rather than a redesign. merc interiors are even worse

really. why. audi make some of the best interiors, only the ultra premiums are better. prefer audi interiors to merc and bmw which are a mess

No, they stopped making that one a few years back as it was even worse than their usual junk. The latest one is turbo only.

it won't look like the pic

ha you really are a A class knob if its the same 1.4 tfsi engine used right across the VAG range then its supercharged with a turbo and has quite a lot of poke for its cc size

Agreed. The 340i M Sport is the closest, but there is that "gap" there at the min for an M340i

Porsche undoubtedly faster. It's all single lane a roads round here with twists and turns and oncoming traffic. Point I was trying to make was.. in daily life in the real world in reality you need something a lot faster than a Porsche to get past something with a 1.4tfsi engine

where

Well the equivalent car in a 3 series to an S4 is the 340i (or arguably the 335xd) Msport. But I suspect the next generation will have an M340i in the same way as there is a M140, M240 and M550.

I think the "dynamic indicators" are an optional extra on all but the top S models.

8.4 seconds 0-60 is very decent for a 'big heavy body' and you'd be saving a **** ton on fuel. I for one like this engine and I tend to prefer bigger engines, but those numbers don't lie.

I dont know exactly how fast a Porsche Boxster S is, but it is without doubt faster than a chipped A4 1.4. Clearly whatever Porsche driver was stuck behind you was driving in a more considerate manner and couldn't be bothered to play your game.

I know, I know, I know can a get a house point?

Does it have the Matrix "Chasing" indicators? I love them!

I would do the rare thing of moving out of the 3rd lane for a few moments to let the Boxster past, the 2nd lane isn't all that bad you know.

Meaningless. Do you know what an OEM is?

In the Audi it's a pop-up screen, very slick and much better than that Merc nonsense.

Not a bad deal. I got a 1.4tfsi sport avant on a 6/23 deal for 178 a month from stable vehicle leasing. I have a plug in tuning box from dtuk fitted to it which takes it up to over180bhp. There is absolutely nothing between mine and my mates gtdi 16 plate golf, apart from about 20 mpg!! Great car would recommend. Yes it's not as good to drive as a 3 series round the nurburgring but thankfully I don't have to go that way to get to work. It is however fast enough to hold back a boxster 3.2s as it has done on several occasions.

The 20-25% of list isn't a very flexible or robust way of working out value for money. It's fixed around 10k/24m for a start and that doesn't suit all. But the main thing is it doesn't allow broader comparison.

The only way to work out the true value of a lease or for that matter private ownership and then to be able to compare it is to work out an all in monthly cost including depreciation and maintenance.

Yes, always cheaper to change VWFS deals mid-lease. Now paying 3ppm extra on my Superb which is almost nothing!

I've just ended a VWFS lease, after a period of time and before a certain point in the lease you can alter the mileage and it was far cheaper than doing it at the start - There was a £60 admin fee for doing so

So do most OEMs.

James may is that you?

Correct. I said that in another post earlier.

Though I personally wouldnt compare an M3 with an S4. An M3s equivalent would be an RS4 and a C63.

That's what I make it. Still a good deal though.

M sport is a trim, the same as S Line & AMG. Only M2, M3, M4 etc can be compared to S3, S4 so on.

True. If people want to rent an Audi then thats their prerogative. However the Insignia is a very good car - VERY underrated. Vauxhall evolved them so even though the early ones were just average, the last of them were very good. Just like Jaguar with the S Type back in the day.

Haha.

I was looking a big mile muncher and either would have fitted the bill. The Insignia would be better spec'd but i had one recently and i just didnt fancy another right now.

Our other car is an A45 AMG, which replaced a Nissan 370Z GT. The Passat replaced both a Porsche Boxster and a Volvo S40 2.5T T5. (three cars doing 25mpg was getting a bit tedious).

You're assuming these cars are equal. They are not.

I think its a prime example of the snob value of RENTING an Audi versus OWNING a Vauxhall.

ie, to some its more important to rent a car with the "right" badge, than own a car.

Your taste in vehicles is quite exquisite, sir :smile:

Don't understand your logic there? The payments on my Insignia is just under £250 P/M and i will end up paying a total of £12k over 48 months. Going by Parkers a 5 year old Insignia VX line goes for around £6-7k mark. Assuming i sold it after owning it for 4 years i reckon it would have cost me £7-8k in total once taking services, mots, tyres costs etc into consideration. The mentioned A4 for 4 years would set you back £13k and you'd still have nothing to show for it at the end of the lease.

Perhaps they are adding the upfront cost ? - not bothered to work it out though

Leasing or buying ?

ok cool i was nearly right :wink:

Its horses for courses. The latest Insignias are a very good car - and as cheap as chips used. In 4 years you'd go through 2 of these rental deals. In 4 years an Insignia SRi VX-Line is probably going to be worth £6K on a private sale (check autotrader for the price of 2012 ones).

Assuming its a 2016 2.0CDTI, then hes probably bought it for maybe £13,000-£14,000, and he'll return £6K in 4 years time. OR he could drive on at it.

I've done similar having just bought a 2016 Passat TDI as our second car - cheap as chips, 55MPG, £20 road tax, no mileage restrictions to worry about and in 4 years time it'll still be worth quite a few thousand.

An Insignia would have been my second choice behind the Passat.

This exactly. Your being generous the insignia will probably lose more and it's a horrible insignia. No offence to the person who bought it :smile:

It's £276 per month, even though most voters seem to have ignored that.

I love these threads. People comparing audi a4 to dacia sanderos lol. Its like saying theres no point eating in a michelin star restaurant because you can get a big mac meal for 3 quid. Good find op heat added

Is it extra for indicators? :stuck_out_tongue:

That's exactly my thinking. I hold my hands up on my slightly sloppy use of the term 'trim level', but I do believe the main premise of my post was correct as a response to paulr23. S4 is mainly a marketing exercise these days, it's clearly a variant of the A4 range regardless of its 'unique engine'. Even Audi's own website shows the S4 under the A4 section.

I'm not a fan of Audis AT ALL, but your alternative system doesn't really work mate. The Insignia will probably be worth £4000-£5000 in another 4 years time (depending on mileage etc) and you have pumped hundreds of pounds a month into it for 4 years - i.e. twice as long as this lease. If you are paying around £275 per month (you mention 'same monthly payment') that's an extra £6,600 paid (24 x £275) to end up with a £4000 car. And of course don't forget you will have no warranty for the final two years, MOTS, tyres etc etc. All things considered, terrible value.

Could not agree more. Not bothering to indicate p/$$€$ me off along with foot on the brake pedal instead of using handbrake, not bothering to thank someone who has let them out at junction when its busy and of course the deliberate or oblivious tailgaters.

Doesn't really work that - some German cars can actually get through a full weekend without giving problems.

Whilst our main car isnt a supercar, its 380BHP and 0-60 in 4.2s. :smiley:

Thinking of getting it remapped to 430BHP, just for **** and giggles.

Agreed.

Its Mirror, Indicate, Maneuver. NOT, as seems to be the way these days Maneuver, Indicate (not bothering to check the Mirror and already maneuvering by the time the indicator finally goes on)

Yes, subsequently found, and already edited my original response.

And again, thats not the data behind it, its a spin put on PCP to create a newspaper article.

Agreed.

To me a trim level is available across many engines. BMW are very good at this - you can buy a 318D / 320D / 330D / 335D M Sport.

The S4 comes with its own unique engine type and theres only the one trim level - in fact Audi pitch it as a seperate model entirely - its not an A4 S4 or an A4 S, its an S4.

Granted its not as hard core as an RS4, but its definitely not IMHO a trim level.

if you search in google for 'rise in PCP deals since 2012' it comes up as a link without needing to go through paywall. Worked for me.

The OTR price may be over £30k, but you can pick up this model through drivethedeal.com for under £25k.

Shame my credit rating is wrecked, good deal

I can't say I noticed a reduction in indicating as such; some drivers are much better at it than others. I agree it's infuriating when they start indicating as they are already partially around their corner

Thats behind a paywall

EDIT: I think i found a version that isnt...

https://www.ft.com/content/0e651206-0ee1-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d?mhq5j=e1

It reads a bit of over egging it for the sake of it - it talks of the impact being when actual values equal to GFV and the huge "fall out" there will be then as people wont have as big a deposit next time around.

Thats where i see PCH coming in - smaller initial deposits, just pay a monthly payment and nothing to worry about at the end.

Love how everyone is driving supercars on HUKD

Thats how Audi market it but it's not quite the case IMO. I think they are lazy with the S models, the suspension is unique, as are the engines, but almost everything else is also available on the normal car. Not like the RS ones that are done by a different division. The BMW equivalent is more like the Mxxx models than Mx. Don't get me wrong they are good cars, I have an S5, but not a lot different to normal ones other than the engine and lowered suspension. Which is good as they aren't that showy

The sad thing is fewer and fewer drivers are bothering to indicate...

Aaaaaahahahaha!

Owned and can't help but like everything you have that is absolutely spot on.

In his defence the concerns that are being exaggerated is the question on irresponsible lending that the Bank of England have made some noises on the motor trade needing better scrutiny but agree no direct comparison can be made with sub prime mortgages.

Am after Audi A3 anybody know of similar price/reasonable deal for this?

Funny how, after all these years, these comments always pop up whenever a [insert premium car brand] deal pops up. Learn some new jokes.

Have a read of;
https://www.ft.com/content/0e651206-0ee1-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

Seems like a good deal.

However, I think comparing as % of RRP can be very misleading. RRPs these days are usually nothing more then fiction and discounts aren't consistent between models . This can skew the comparison considerably.

For example when I was comparing the 6GC and A7 the 6GC deals would have seemed better value using your method of comparison. But as I was also considering buying I knew the 6GC had far bigger discounts and so wasn't selling for much more then the A7 in reality.

I always use drive the deal/etc to get an idea of street price when comparing.

But LEAGUES ahead of any other manufacturer in terms of diesel performance.

where / link please?

not being sarky, genuinely interested in a good sandero deal - thanks in advance.

That blue A4 pic in the deal headling IS an A4 S-Line, albeit with metallic paint, and the optional slightly bigger wheels.

Your pic ISNT of an S-Line, its an SE. Different model entirely.

I would like to see that data behind that. PCP has been the primary purchase method of new cars for many, many years.

I dont think the percentage of new cars bought on PCP has changed much and i dont think new car sales have went dramatically through the roof.

And besides, the knock on effect will ultimately be removing the oldest cars from our roads, which given they are the most polluting (both in petrol and diesel variants) then thats no bad thing.

I would contest that - S4 ISNT a trim level. It comes with its own unique drivetrain setup - different and unique engine, etc.

In the same way as M3 isnt a trim level for a 3 series.

Wrong. S4 is a different model albeit based on the A4. Much like the M3 is a separate car to the 3 series.

Yes. I wouldnt care if the papers produced factual reports - but they dont even understand the basic principles themselves, THEN spin a doom and gloom message on the back of it.

It was like back in March when a load of people bought new cars they'd otherwise have bought in April to avoid the tax changes - the newspapers spun it as "massive surge in new car finance deals" - uh huh, because there was a one off surge in new car sales that had to be financed.

The following month when it dropped back because of the previous month, the same papers were reporting "diesel sales down dramatically as buyers abandon diesels!" - no idiots, less were sold because more were sold the month before!!!

You're wrong. The S4 is a separate car altogether, however Audi use the S branding to sell cheaper cars - S Line - in the same way as Mercedes have full fat AMG performance cars but then sell cheaper cars off the back of that with the AMG Line branding (for basically a trim level). BMW do it with the M cars, and then have an M Sport trim level for lesser models.

They're "halo models" and is good news for people who want their car to look sporty. Not so good for those of us with the full fat versions though. :disappointed:

Also they seem to use PCP and lease interchangably when that is not quite the case.

Correct but the number of PCP deals taken out in the last 2 years has dramatically increased so I do wonder if there might be a correction in residual values.

A4 trim levels as below and in ascending order;-

SE
Sport
S Line
Black Edition
S4

No the sport is the trim beneath the Sline and is available with a range of engines. The S4 is (until the RS4) the top of the range A4 with more kit and only one (3 litre 354PS) engine.

Well this is embarassing - for you. All the buzzwords there that you used are straight (and almost verbatim) from an article in the Guardian newspaper. :rolleyes:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/10/are-car-loans-driving-us-towards-the-next-financial-crash

:cringe:

"British households borrowed a record £31.6bn in 2016 to buy cars, up 12% on the year before"
"has increased fivefold (394%) over the last five years"
"have been packaged into asset-backed securities"

Oh dear... have you thought about not just reading the newspapers to form an opinion on things?

Correct me if I'm wrong about the sport meaning it's a S4. I'm not sure with audis.

So the deal you have now seems a lot better than this deal then providing you had the same 10k m/pa etc etc. And yours is a sport version so S4? Not S-line like the advertised deal?

PCP is not a new thing. It has been around since the 1980s so there wont suddenly be extra cars on the used market that the used market cant absorb, just because of PCP.

Residuals have already been declining steadily (but slowly), so its not a quick big bang type drop, its gradual.

PCP deals do cost more than they used to, however they have become the goto choice.

I think that will change. I think we will see a move to PCH (leasing) type deals as the goto option. It removes list price, discount, residual, interest rate out of the equation - its down to deposit and monthly payment.

Don't jump the gun and dissect my comment. I've had second hand cars all my life. Saving and building foundations for me and my family. Now I am in a good place, a second car is good for me to be brand new. No worries, no more concerns, can concentrate on more important things. Warranty, reliable, no issues. Suits me at the moment.... that's all mate :wink:

Who knows. Your views are that generic, high level and fear based, i can only assume they're from the Daily Mail or The Sun.


Nope. Its you who doesnt understand what sub prime lending is. Its lending to people who dont necessarily have the means to repay it.

Firstly, leasing is not "lending", so its not a sub prime loan, secondly, leasing is a very viable product for most people (ie, regular people, not those with repayment difficulties) and is a successful product for those people. Your intimation was that leasing was for people who shouldnt otherwise be getting loans.

Also, finance companies, such as VW Finance or BMW Finance package the loans up in to securities and sell them on to investment groups, to leverage more lending ability for themselves. After all, the car companys finance houses are enablers to sell cars. You cant just turn around and go "sorry lads, you cant sell any more BMWs because we've ran out of money to lend".

Where it went on its ass in the states was were sub prime loans were resold as low risk securities.

I think the issue will come two fold; a few more PCP deals will be foreclosed but the biggest issue maybe when all the PCP cars hit the 2nd hand market - if values start to drop then the new PCP deals will quickly reflect this and cost more....

Why do you say no point having a second hand car? Surely if you're not bothered about driving a new car for the number plate, it pays in the long run to buy second hand. Even if only 3 months old? You're paying hundreds just to take it off the forecourt. I agree if you were going to buy a new car anyone it's worth it, but saying you can't see the point in buying second hand?

Also worth noting that the lease company won't pay VAT on it, and I believe there is some sort of rule that allows them to sell them VAT free when coming off a lease or something? Maybe that they are eligible for the margin scheme but I aren't sure on this.

I was always tempted by these lease deals, however nowadays I basically cycle everywhere.

My current car cost me about 4k 2.5 years ago second hand and is still going reasonably strong. Only tends to do long distances 500+ miles every month or so.

I wonder how many people here only do short journeys, I'd urge giving cycling a go!

Its hot and its making me a miserable old git!

The owner of the car - who you will lease the car from will not pay the list price for the car - they will get it at a discount - depreciation is normally based on the list price of the car that you would pay if you bought it. - there are many variables that decide the monthly payments such as stock/car being withdrawn/car new - When I got mine 12 months ago it was a 1.4 sport and the cost was c£153 per month and c£918 deposit - it was a new model and I assume that audi wanted to get some on the road - they didnt have lots of stock as i had wait for it to be built (c3 months). I also got mine direct from a dealer who did not charge the lease co admin fee.

off to hunt for choc ice deals next!

Well at least the one I posted was the same one posted on the actual deal page, and not one that bigged it up and made it look better spec than it actually is, meh my point still stands.

You're a miserable old git aren't you, if you read my other comments you would see that my opinion has changed. Which is the sole reason I was commenting on this post to get more information regarding cars because when I'm older, it might me better off for me, thanks to the other helpful guy I was talking to he had done exactly that. I was not forcing you to read my comments nor am I forcing others either.

So with this deal and other leases you are saying the price is matched with whatever the owner of the car thinks the depreciation is in 2 years time, so obviously less than that value.

You mistaken the car for a BMW.

These come with Front Bumper magnets instead now and automatic third/fourth lane seeking system.

Bmw interiors are one of the poorest out of the premium car manufacturers

That is happening now. That was not happening in the past five years or so. Countless small, diesel-powered engined cars out there that are fault-ridden given they were mis-sold and/or didn't quite understand how modern diesels work or need to be worked.


Again - those buyers will be hit by diesel maintenance issues and costs. Perhaps they are unsuspecting?


I'm not anti-diesel. Diesel serves a purposes as long as you do 20,000 miles a year or more, need a very big vehicle such as a pick-up or a van, or need to tow something. They have no place in cities.

VW have petrol Passats namely in countries where the cost of unleaded is cheaper, such as the US.


Papers? Which papers are these that I have supposedly read?


Then you don't understand what sub-prime is. British households borrowed a record £31.6bn in 2016 to buy cars, up 12% on the year before. Where lenders are profiting and going deeper and deeper into car leasing, which has has increased fivefold (394%) over the last five years, then you need to ask when will this bubble pop.

Tell me why banks have created car-loan asset-backed securities and categorised them in the same way they did with mortgages?

Maybe, but I bet the insurance wont be!

Not disputng that. My leased Audi is in the black. Its jsut the pic put on was blue wasnt it?

my deal was 6.5 p a mile over 20,000 miles (total over 2 years) and 9.5 if you have maintenance - sometimes its cheaper to pay the penalty at the end than extra each month. I didnt think I would do over 20k but have done that already in the first year so I will have to pay a penalty - that said I get paid for my petrol and make some profit on it so I save some each month.

That depends doesn't it. If the Audi (such as this) is £6600, and the car its trying to intimidate is on a PCP for £15000, then the owner of the car in front has a larger "debt", even if there is something to service it with at the end of the PCP.


A Focus wouldn't be a lot cheaper than this.

Both viable enough colours IMHO

This is the key. I recently bought a new car and the reasons were pretty clear to me:

1. I wanted a big list of options and the used market just couldn't match what I wanted.

2. It ended up cheaper to buy a new car on PCP over a 6 year period (roughly how long I might keep it) than it did buying a 1 year old nearly new car where I couldn't choose the options.

3. I'm in my forties and work hard so wanted to treat myself. I'm into my cars so for me it's not about A to B it's about the driving and fun aspect.

4. It was affordable to me.

I understand why people don't get it, but as said before when you actually work out the costs of leasing/PCP vs buying used/old the costs are not that different.

Our family car bought outright has cost roughly the same as it would have done to lease a similar car but we could have swapped every 3 years without all the MOT/maintenance issues.

I suspect leasing isnt for you!

Isnt for me either BTW. I went for a 2016 Passat TDI as our second car and i'll run it a few years.

What is included in the £90 a month? My husband has a 2013 Sandero just now and im looking at getting a more reliable car (i have a 56 fiat panda) but only if its worth my while getting it on lease.

If you are not interested in "the new car thing" why are you wasting your time looking at this thread and posting and also wasting my time having to read through your comments.

For information if you were interested in the "new car thing" you might find that lease prices are based on what the person owns the car views the value for resale in the future and therefore this is why a focus may actually be more expensive to lease - I havent looked to check to back that fact up but often you will see cars that are on a lease deal at the same retail price but a cheaper monthly cost.

Its hot stop wasting peoples time!

Dacia's are death traps low safety ratings

Yes, and no...
They could do more useful things, but what they do serves a useful purpose. If it wasn't for the parasites looking at every loophole and clause banks and companies could rip off average dumb Joe endlessly...

Back in 2007 at university I had PPI on a credit card, also worked part time. However when I lost my job I tried to use the PPI only to find I was not valid. So paid 28months premiums and wasn't even valid.

I never did file for a PPI refund though, I owed them 3400£ for 6 years so not paying it back

And its only black or white without paying extra

Ok sorry I thought you were inferring this car was a diesel, otherwise I was unsure why you would say it.

PCP is where you agree to buy the car for x pounds, and then borrow the money (minus deposit) against the car. But unlike a normal loan where the payments are equal, a PCP has x amount of payments at £y per month and then a final value of £z which is normally just over the estimated value of the car after x months BUT you can not pay it and just hand it back (which is effectively using it as a lease apart from you have a lot more money borrowed next to your name on a credit check AFAIK). The issue m5rcc speaks about (which I agree with) is that the manufacturers are getting so competitive over these packages that they are sometimes overestimating the FV, which means people hand the car back and there is more outstanding on the finance than the car is worth. Same with leasing, they can overestimate the cars value afterwards and then end up out of pocket when the lease is up. This can be compounded by the fact that incentives for fairly new "approved used" cars are pretty rubbish if buying on finance (which a lot of cars are), with far better rates and deposit contributions available on the new car than those available on the used ones which makes the used car a harder sell.

I do about 40K a year I beat that will cost a bomb

Because the one you went to the trouble of showing a pic of ISNT either!! Thats an SE spec car.

I think there is a natural gravitation away from diesels now that there are newer, smaller engined high pressure turbo petrol cars. I think that in itself is translating to a lower percentage of diesels sold. Thats a fairly natural progression and in line with diesels moving back from being the default choice for most people (which it should never have been).

THAT is a move i see continuing - a gradual ebb away from diesel. I dont think people have or will move away from diesels in their droves - no matter what you're reading in the papers.



I've access to trade sites and clean diesels are still easily making CAP clean. Theres no shortage of buyers and the trade arent afraid of them.

Its not a matter of people "cottoning on" - its just part of the natural cycle of how things are moving.

Fleet operators - big fleet operators, car hire companies, leasing companies - all have buy back options with the manufacturer. My 2016 Passat was ex lease yet came from VW UK. Thats how the market works. Theres very little risk for the big players.

Interestingly - for all your / the papers anti diesel stance i find it very interesting that for example, you cant even buy a petrol Passat. I think that speaks volumes for how big manufacturers see the importance of diesel cars in the UK market (VW have a range of petrol Passats in other markets).

All you're doing is falling for the doom and gloom merchant nonsense that the papers are spouting, trying to raise another "scandal".

Oh - and leasing isnt sub prime. Its mainstream and very viable for most people.

Having said all this, I think you might have swayed my opinion on leasing a car, £198 a month is affordable for a 18 year old living at home on minimum wage.

Just in general the new car thing don't interest me. I can see why it does to other people. Perhaps for me the only interest I can see at the moment for purchasing a new car is to show off. I'm only young so never actually owned a new car, drove a brand new focus once and it was nice in comparison to what I drive, so not sure how a focus compares to an Audi. If anything surely a focus would be a hell of a lot cheaper to lease than a Audi? Not sure if you know, but that would be much more of interest to me, not currently but later in life.

I understand your point entirely.

And to inform you, I didn't say this car was diesel. I was simply wondering as a matter of personal interest.

And is pcp just finance on a car which you own at the end of x years? Confused on the difference if any.

PCP isn't a lease though is it? It can effectively be used as a lease but you are borrowing money and paying it back, not committing to a (smaller) amount over a set term?

I leased the sport version of this last September. £1,500 down and £250 a month including VAT for 2 yrs 30,000 miles including servicing and tyres. If you are going to lease one of these then it is only about £10 a month extra to include servicing and tyres. Servicing has to be done at an Audi garage as a condition of the lease so well with paying an extra £240 over 2 years to cover this. The car is fine- engine is no issue 150BHP is equivalent to BMW 318D and build quality is excellent and as being leased not worried if it does start creaking after a few years. I saw a great deal for the Black version of this recently- basically s line with extras.

Yes the depreciation will be less on the second 3 years. I only try and argue the case for leasing when comparing with new as otherwise it is unfair and not a direct comparison. I can see both sides to the new/used car argument, it's the people who cannot see why people buy new cars I don't understand. There is a difference between empathising with somebody for doing something whilst not agreeing they made the right decision or the same decision as you would have.

It's not that important to me having a new car, I just like fixed cost motoring and I do like having a new car, more because it is up to date (from an economy, tech and performance perspective) than the fact it is unused.

Leasing is not a universal answer. It isn't always cheaper than owning the car, conveniently for me it has been on the cars I have had on lease, but if you pick car A it may be cheaper to buy it with cash, car B may be cheaper to buy on finance (due to incentives offered) and car C may be cheaper on lease. As is the case with PCP, leasing is massively affected by support from the manufacturer, so why some end up being "cheap". As to why doesn't everyone do it, because it's not for everyone. I have been lucky in finding good deals on cars that I liked, some won't have the same luck. I'm sure plenty of wealthy people do lease, but if you look into leasing a supercar you can see why they won't be leased, they are far more than depreciation probably due to lack of interest in shoving them out on lease.

This car is a petrol so not sure what your point is there.

Always entertained by lease deals on here :laughing:. Has anybody went for it? Seems a good one if this is what your after.

Rich people do lease cars albeit via PCP. Would not be better/cheaper/smarter to lease a car that beats the depreciation yield curve?

The problem is that everyone is starting to do it. That is why it is next financial crash in the making where these deals are part a colossal buildup of debt in the UK, some of it taken out by people with poor credit scores, and which has an uncomfortable parallel with sub-prime mortgages before the financial crisis.

You also curiously omit that reliability on a car that is 3-6 years old is worse than that of a newer car, especially when it isn't your problem if you don't own it.


Depends on the car, surely?

Buy a car a few years old I mean in a sensible manner, i.e. buying responsibly and not from an 18 year old who has abused it. And yeah second hand cars. Only a mug or a rich person would buy a brand new car from brand new outright. Unless it's a smashing deal.

I'm no wiz on depreciation but surely the depreciation value is going to be a lot higher in the first 3 years than it is in the following 3. To me it don't make sense either way, if leasing was so good why wouldn't everyone do it? Including rich people because why not?

To me, new cars do not matter at all, to you they clearly do. Because at the end of the day you will still get the same pleasure from a second hand nearly new car to a brand new car. And I would like to take pride in the fact I actually own the car.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't diesel a lot worse for the environment than petrol?

I think these cars actually do come with indicators - the problem seems to be that a lot of the drivers don't appear either willing or able to actually use them.
I once saw an AUDI driver using the indicators correctly on the motorway - twice. So I reported the vehicle as stolen (highfive)

Similar deal and only slightly more expensive for 12k miles per annum
http://www.1stchoicevehicleleasing.co.uk/personal-lease-cars/audi/a4-saloon/a4-saloon-14t-fsi-s-line-4dr-leatheralc-191480314

£2.77 per month more and an extra £24.93 upfront.

It's a great bit of tech but it's part of a £1,400 option package which, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't say this car comes equipped with. That pic posted is not what a standard car looks like inside

great price for lease!

You mean the winners are those who buy old cars that don't depreciate, buy cars that don't depreciate as much as the cost of leasing them or have that much money it doesn't bother them they are overpaying for the car so they can say it belongs to them?

imagine Audi interior/exterior design, with Japanese build underneath. I love Audi's, beautiful cars, I've gone Japanese as I mentioned before but so tempted by going back to Audi (a TT or TT-S) - but can't help feel uneasy about maintenance costs

In my opinion yes in regards to your first point. "How do you like my new car mate, it's not mine though". Everyone has their opinion on it. They can't be wrong, most of the time.

The real winners are certainly not those who lease cars. In my opinion remember.

What is fancy about a boring German saloon?

Dynamic indicators are standard on S-Line trims.

And is showing off more acceptable when one does own the car in question? Renting a house (generally an appreciating asset) is not good if you can avoid it, renting a car (which almost always is a depreciating asset) can make sense since it costs money to own it.

Not bought but had extended wknd test drives of Golf R DSG before getting my 2nd S3 and Merc A45 before getting RS3.

I looked at something similar back in Feb but in the end i just couldnt bring myself to signing away £7k on a car which you hand back after 2 years. In the end i bought a low mileage, 12 month old, Insignia VX Line for the same monthly payment which is mine to keep after 48months. Yes i know you cant compare a VX with an Audi and leasing, rather than buying, can work out more economical (in terms of depreciation value) but i just dont see the attraction in lease deals.

Both get you from A to B? What's the difference. We don't all need to show off in fancy cars which we don't actually own.

Now you've upset me - I thought that sat nav display was blooming fab, and now want the 'virtual cockpit' dashboard as you put it. Ahh forget it, I'm going for the Dacia Sandero deal instead!!

I have this car and it replaces the 2 litre diesel. Actually quite nippy and good petrol consumption. Lovely to drive.

How did I look stupid? The car pictured in the link is not the car you'd get

Yes a person can rent for 10 years but that doesn't mean the same car for 10 years as you have taken it to be... You can't even lease a car for 10 years anyway, especially in respect to this deal.

This deal will almost certainly not come with the digital dashboard's "Virtual Cockpit" as pictured here.

What you wanna carry in it... buffalo?.. :stuck_out_tongue: a 1.4 these days is as powerful as 2.0L 10 - 15 yrs ago. :smirk:

1.5 A4 doesn't exist. That engine has been introduced on the A3.

A4 keeps the 1.4 engine.

link?
i would get that deal

I have a 5 and it's hardly noisy, or cheap inside...

But more people are buying diesels on the basis it is (was) economical whilst not understanding that one cannot drive them on short, cold runs. Besides, emissions have been ever stricter. We are now on Euro VI. Ten years ago, we weren't, so the equipment is under more constraint to clean emissions.


Perhaps you should follow your own advice: car leasing in its current form is no different to sub-prime.

Now that the public is finally cottoning on, I would not like to be a fleet operator expecting to get CAP Clean residuals for a fleet of 3-year-old diesels. If you want to disagree, no problem. Let us see who is correct in the next few months :wink:

No need to belittle me because of the way I type, just because I didn't do so well in school. I just did not get "YOU'RE" comment.

I did 100k miles across 4 years in two brand new Audis so I know first hand just how unreliable they are.
When the ECU failed and jammed it it two gears at once completely destroying the gearbox for example, then the replacement box clutch juddering when cold. Try parking it on a hill without jerking etc.
VAG have officially ceased development of this gearbox.

The Auto in my XF after it and my current 5 series are in a completely different league of refinement.

1.4 Seems small for a car of that size

Agreed I also have a full electric car as our second and in terms of refinement they are leagues ahead of mechanically driven vehicles.

I think what it is (taking the whole BMW/Audi argument aside) that this car has an RRP of over £30,000 -OK believe that if you will, and no doubt if I bought it from a dealer I'd get a good discount from that price, but then if I was a good haggler, I'd get a discount on any RRP on any car in any showroom, so the bottom line is you are getting a quite high-spec new car for about £280 a month.

If it breaks down, so what, I'm covered by warranty etc.

If it doesn't then I'm driving a very nice £30k car for the same cost of a loan of £10,000 over the same timescale (£10,000 @ 3.0% over 24m = £290 a month - what car can you get with £10k - Not very much, my cr4ppy Clio costs £18k!

And before you say that you'll have a car at the end of 3 years, well yes you will, and how much is it worth, a damn site less than £10k I'll warrant.

I'll be then switching my 'old' A4 for a branny, and at probably the same cost. If you do the same loan deal, you might be able to upgrade to a £14,000 car with your old car as deposit, whilst I'm now in another £30k car.

God I could go on for hours - If you like a new car every 2 or 3 years, then lease - if you want to drive same car for 10-15 years until it's worth nowt (and after 3 years you might have paid loan off, so get 7-12 years loan-free) then don't lease, simple really.

This particular deal is monetarily excellent (those arguing about whether it's as good as a BMW in my opinion are not seeing this deal for what it's worth, and are arguing about something totally different).

If I could do this deal today, I'd be all over it. As it is I have to wait at least another 5 months then hope as good an offer is around (which if the old 1.4 engine is being 'sold off' I might struggle).

Uh huh and diesel cars have had DPFs, DMFs, EGRs, turbos and timing belts for 10+ years and the residual values havent plummeted.

And thats not theory - thats reality.

How is car leasing a racket??? :rotfl:

Maybe one needs to read up on these things and understand it before one starts spouting it on internet forums :rolleyes:

Firstly, it's "you're" as-in a contraction of "you are". That's not a grammar nazi thing, that's just a making sense thing, it helps if we all speak the same language.

Secondly, what me? No sir, I don't need an Audi A4 right now, ta.

Says basic economics and the car industry.

One should think very carefully before one opts for a diesel car long-term because the cost of repairs and maintenance in years three to six (DPF, DMF, EGR, turbo, timing belt) will vastly outweigh any economy benefit. Same applies to buying a 3-year-old 80,000 mile ex-fleet diesel car because you could be hit with £3000- £5000 in repairs during your first year of ownership.

This is not a theory. It's reality. If you think the car leasing racket is not the next bubble, then I suggest you buy some shares in the leading dealers and ride that wave.

I think the point he is making is that if you were buying this outright (even with a large discount) it would work out more expensive than this lease deal.

Your not buying it though are you?

Well then that's the point. That wasn't so hard was it?

Says who? The Sun?

The papers are trying to drum up anti diesel sentiment but theres still a strong market for used ones.

High MPG, low road tax

The lease companies will adjust their predicted residuals as and when they see market changes.

It will be a gradual thing that can and will be managed. In fact - IS being managed

Congratulations! I'd knew you'd come round at some point! <3

Don't get me wrong, if you were buying this car for this price then it would be a fantastic deal.

This is literally the first time I've agreed with m5rcc on anything.

Must be the weather doing funny things.

If you'd taken even 1 minute to have a look around on the 'net, you could have saved yourself looking very stupid there.

I think he/she was given his/her previous sentence...

Comparing a Picanto (cheapest being £7.6k new for the 1.0 65 1 Air 5dr) to an A4. Brilliant...

Yet...they will though.

God I have this car, I hate it's low down lack of power - perfectly OK at motorway speeds, but a real lack of grunt at low speed!

And is yours the same where the auto stop-start is almost never 'available' useless monitoring system won't shut engine off even if been driving half and hour (battery nice and full) with no A/C or any lights on, damn thing still won't go off at lights.

Not trolling mate, I just have a hard time seeing these leases as bargains... There are cars you can purchase fully for this kind of money like a Kia for instance or a nearly new car of a higher standard.

Some people prefer old cars that don't lose as much money and some can't get their head around the fact that owning an item that still loses money can be more expensive than paying to borrow it.

Diesel sales havent plummeted.

Nor have residuals.

If renting you would get a brand new car every 3 years or so, buying outright you have the same car for the 10 years with all it's issues in later life.

I currently have both, a car we bought outright 8 years ago and a brand new one on a PCP and if you spread the cost of both over 10 years it is roughly the same outcome and similar monthly figures so you lose the same amount either way.

The only way around it is to run old **** for your entire life, which I have also done in the past and comes with it's own set of problems, annoyances and more.

Out of all my car ownership, the new/nearly new cars are the ones easiest to live with - i.e. cars within the first 3 years of life. Our current 8 year old family car is starting to cost money now.

Summarised - the ambulance chasing vultures are running out of work now the the PPI scandal is close to over so they're hoping to drum up other business elsewhere?

It is com-pen-say-shun culture Briatain after all

I'm not sure if you're trolling or don't have a concept of finances? Can you clear it up?

Yeah, especially since the 3 series can be had with the 1.5 3-cylinder engine (318i).

£6,636 for a rental!... People vote cold on Very for items a fraction of this price and you get to keep those!... You rich folk really aren't as smart as some may think :stuck_out_tongue:

If the lease is less than the depreciation then its still cheaper than owning it. That is the entire point of it.

Doubt he/she meant the same car for 10 years...

I personally don't think there is a lot to explain on the percentage. Some use it as a *ROUGH* yardstick (used a lot on Pistonheads) to allow them to tell if its a good deal or not (note that 25% or under is for the 10k/24m leases) but really the most important two points are:

1) Is it cheaper than buying it (from new) and having it for the same amount of time as the lease? Accounting for depreciation, interest if taken on finance, road tax etc., whether you want to risk factoring any equity at the end of the PCP is up to you.

2) Is there anything better for less money? Again, buying or leasing.

The downside of the percentage model is that it doesn't factor in any potential discounts available on the car when buying (and the variation of said discount between makes and models), and doesn't factor for depreciation properly, which again varies massively among makes and models. It is good for a rough measure or if you are comparing similar cars.

Surprisingly there hasn't been any £7000 and you don't even own it at the end/I'd buy a 15 year old Bentley type comments on here, as there usually is!

Somebody is still stuck in the 90's it would seem...

Why would you rent for ten years?

Guess again. The only two non-metallic colours are black or white.

Audi sacrifice quality where people can't see.

No, but its probably available as an optional extra.

No.

Never really got the point in rental..paying money each month for the use of a car, then having nout at the end. Then again, it's better than paying the interest of a loan for a vehicle that will depreciate very quickly. I guess it's down to personal circumstances. My thinking is if you have £30,000 for a car ,and it's life is 10 years ...you sell it for the cost of the maintenance etc. just to even things out, that's £3000 / Yr for the car. If you rented for 10 years you'd be paying in this case just over £4k a year but without the initial outlay or concern about repairs etc. Now, if you took a loan out for a new car I think that would be ludicrous.

Each to their own.

This looks a great deal, thinking of taking the plunge on a personal finance deal for the first time and this ticks all the boxes.Forgive my ignorance but does this include maintenance?

Beautiful! Just wish the steering wheel was on the other side. :stuck_out_tongue:

Exactly right. It will be under warranty for your ownership then it becomes someone else's problem.

There's a solution that's better than both of those and it involves an electric motor.

I personally think the opposite. Having driven manual gearboxes all my life I'd rather have the DSG now.

Never really got the point in rental..paying money each month for the use of a car, then having nout at the end. Then again, it's better than paying the interest of a loan for a vehicle that will depreciate very quickly. I guess it's down to personal circumstances. My thinking is if you have £30,000 for a car ,and it's life is 10 years ...you sell it for the cost of the maintenance etc. just to even things out, that's £3000 / Yr for the car. If you rented for 10 years you'd be paying in this case just over £4k a year but without the initial outlay or concern about repairs etc.

Each to their own.

Most probably and 'signal' is just a toothpaste brand to some.

Not entirely true what you are saying there, the engines may be outgoing but since the leather/alcantara is only being introduced on the 2018 model year that begins production in a few weeks they cannot be stock models already in existence. A mate has just ordered a black edition and it is a factory order. it will be that they are pushing the 1.4 to get rid of the engines.

DSG gearboxes are horrific and very unreliable. You get cluch judder and random jerkiness. I would never have another mechatronic box, either get a manual or a true auto.

Agreed. NEVER again!

The pic in the get deal link is a little misleading considering the car doesn't come with metallic paint and will probably look more like this

It's a lease, who cares? It'll be under full manufacturer warranty the entire time.

If there's a problem it'll be someone else's. Most likely the moron who buys a second hand German car, they should have their heads checked.

Christ almighty. I don't even know where to start here.

The only Fiat 500 with a 1.4 engine is the Abarth.
This particular 1.4 engine makes 150ps and 250 Nm.
It does 0-60mph in 8.4 which isn't quick but isn't at all slow.

The Fiat 500 Abarth only does 0-60mph in 7.8 seconds, so actually the question is, why is the Fiat so slow?

Bigger concern of any 1.4TSI future owner should be this. All these photos coming from "happy" 1.4TSI owners. Search any VAG owner forum for more:

I have 900cc clio, turbo, and its plenty fast enough for the car - which i never thought I would say. So I wouldnt be worried about a 1.4 in this car.

That'll be the 1.8 they don't make any more as it was replaced by this 1.4 then?

Says the person who clearly knows nothing, or 0.0, about engines. At around 150bhp this isn't pathetic ... unlike ...

gotta love ignorance of the motor industry

Only problem ive had with mine is wheel spinning at the lights, surprisingly nippy

Read a bit further back.. It produces 150BHP and does 0-60 in less than 9 seconds. Its plenty fast enough and above average for this type of car

No good. The idiots have put the steering wheel on the wrong side!

They'll need to be charging hundreds for every nick to make up the losses on diesel residuals plummeting - won't happen. More likely some lease firms to do under and the larger firms will survive and raise prices.

Thanks - I'm aware of the BVLA guidelines but these still leave a bit of wriggle room and any Leasing Firm that's getting into trouble may well look to try exploit this to their benefit.

I'll have half a dozen then

There are BVLA (British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association) guidelines to adhere to so they can't be too punitive.

1.4 small engine for a big heavy body, fiat 500 has a 1.4 multi engine......
Not worth it, it has to be at least 1.8tfsi

Either they'll go bankrupt or will they start to try and recover "extra" monies from those returning cars at the end of the lease deals - for example by charging for every minor mark and blemish on the vehicle being returned?

That's subjective, and they are totally different cars you are comparing, this is a saloon and Dacia is a smaller car in comparison, some people need a bigger car, I am no fan of Audi but this is a decent deal for what you get. But you can more than likely get a Passat or Octavia which made by the VW and Audi Group so share many of the same parts for cheaper if you find the right deal, its the brand you are paying for and some people like a premium branded car.

hahahahahha

never been an Audi fan (blandness) however saw the recent A4 that my mate bought and was extremely impressed a very sweet and classy interior. Very quiet diesel too, class all round.

It looks like the birds have voted on the deal in the picture.

You are replying to the wrong person ......

Your talking absolute SCALLOPS !!

Nowadays, all engines are becoming smaller litre but more powerful turbos, meaning this will have the equivilant power of a standard 2 litre.

I have an Audi S8, which is the reduced 4 litre engine, as opposed to the old 5.2 V10, but its the same engine as a lambourghini, more powerful, better economy, faster.

So please stop it with all the b++sh+t of the car is too slow !!!!

BY THE WAY , HEAT FOR OP !!!! SUPER HOT DEAL !!

In this weather!?

Go get your coat.

A cowboy went to meet the sales guy on this deal. He walked into the showroom and said "Audi"

Yes that is a downside of these cars but at least you are allowed to park in disabled spaces

No doubt. Problem was that VAG had to recall cars in and around 2012 to replace the synthetic oil in gearboxes with mineral oil because the synthetic oil was becoming conductive at high temperatures causing the Mechatronics to lose drive.

No this is "the deal" on old stock. You will probably find the lead times quite short as they are already built too. Great deal but too rich me for. Damn this new house :disappointed:

I've had a 2011 and a 2013 A3 s-tronic, and both had premature clutch failures / mechatronics replaced, thankfully both not long after originally buying the car. Have since gone Japanese and will never get an stronic again. Beautiful gear changes, but far too expensive to worry about them going wrong one day. Seems to be fairly common on forums / you tube vids

The 1.4 in the Audi is turbocharged, producing 150hp. The entry level 3 series is a NASP 1.6, which produces 134hp.

The C Class petrol is more powerful, but their 1.6 diesel produces 134hp. And BMW 3 Series do a 2.0 diesel with 114hp.

So yeah, this will be more powerful than the majority of 3 series and C Class cars you'll see on the road.

Good question. Go to the (new) lease company and ask them for the lead time. Then go to a dealer and ask them the same thing. Many cars are 2-3 months and may be longer at the moment as some factories have a summer shut down for maintenance etc.

Once you know what the lead time is, check what happens if you are not ready to take delivery of the car when it arrives. Some lease companies will be more flexible than others and will defer delivery for a couple of weeks. Ask your existing lease company what happens if your new car has not arrived. They may be flexible, although they may charge you for the extra eeks.

So, would it be reasonable to expect further discounts on this model?

Could the OP come around and check the dates of the cheese on my fridge please? I think it might need throwing away .... :smiley:

Any good deal on estates Benz?

Is £6,636 / 24 too difficult to do?

Thanks, that gives me a good idea of when to start.

I have, but that has the newer dual wet clutch seven-speed DSG/s-tronic which is much better to drive than both the old dual dry clutch seven-speed DSG/s-tronic and the old dual wet clutch 6-speed DSG/s-tronic, which were littered with issues.

Yes and no. It would only be a good deal if you can buy it very cheaply due to the high cost of maintaining diesel emissions equipment after 3-4 years.

I've leased cars for 12 years now and usually sign up for a new one around 3 months before my deal expires, some have longer lead times though - I was quoted 6 months on a Range Rover a few years back. I've got one of these i Sport trim and that was ready within 7 weeks but the garage kept it until my previous lease had expired.

What else have you bought to compare them against?

I've had S Tronic in my cars and can only go by my experience, which is no issues and clean quick gear changes. Have you tried the RS3? This will demonstrate this fully. Anyway this is for a different forum.

please can you change the £198 figure to the total overall figure or averaged monthly figure (including the initial charge). I know the total is in the title but there's no way anyone can get this for £198x24 months!

Yes, that is quite true - might be a good time for anyone after a good secondhand diesel though, depending on what they do do with the tax.

Cheaper here by about £250 over the term.

The real problem is for leasing companies heavily weighted into diesels that have based their lease payments on residuals that cannot be realised. No doubt there are going to be a few bankruptcies there.

Tell that to Audi DSG owners...

Very good deal. Have over a year to run on my current (first lease). Would have jumped on this one. Don't see the point in finance or owning a second hand car. Long as the lease is cheaper then the general depreciation of the car. Partner owns her car and for me a second car to lease is perfect.
Heat, great deal, nice car.

3+23 is about £100 less overall (I'm not for putting £2000 into a 2-yr deal, rather pay more per mth) = 21.5%.

Thought you were going to explain the Cost:RRP %equation to us.

I'm looking for a deal to replace my nearly-up 4yr PCP with Renault where I'm paying £239pcm and they keep trying to get me to renew (early) at the same price with £1,000 deposit!!

When I see these A4 deals I think to myself, that's a far better car for me than the underwhelmingly powerless Clio I'm currently driving, and at the same or less cost;

One question I still have is when do I start actually putting in for one of these deals leading up to my 4-year hand-back date? I don't want to have 2 cars for more than a few days if I can help it, certainly no more than a couple of weeks, and of course I can't be without a car totally, so don't want to leave it too late and be awaiting delivery??

did anyone see that news article about PCP deals, it looks like the lawyers who done the mis-selling fro banks, think car PCP deals are the next money back scheme, as all you will have to say is that it was not made clear to you that you would not own the car unless you made a large balloon payment at the end... or something like that... could be money back coming for all of is on PCP

Nah they pit the steering wheel on the wrong side!

I'd be interested to hear if anyone asks them for other prices on higher mileage. I'm sorted with the scirocco deal off here but always like to keep an eye on deals for 20k miles.

I got a Scirocco R-Line DSG diesel off here for sub £300 with no fees and just 3 months up front which was a decent deal.

Indicators still an optional extra?

The 1.4 is the outgoing engine and was no longer produced after week 22. 3 weeks ago.

Maybe trying to get rid of the 1.4 stock as the first 1.5 orders will be on the roads in the next couple of weeks. Hot all the same!

Just checked the configurator and it is a new addition. Fantastic! I know what I'm getting next!

This is odd. Unless it's a new range change, there is no 1.4 S-Line. I have the Sport, which was the top model with that engine when I got it. Incidentally, the engine is great, plenty of poke and still frugal.

I said IMO, as my two S3's current RS3 and A1 have been perfect cars with no issues and I'm sure Audi will resolve any issues. This is a cracking deal and that's the point

Interior quality I agree 100%, reliability I can only assume that you don't know any better, they are riddled with problems - though for some reason owners don't like admitting it.

I'm an ex VW Service Manager, I'm very experienced in what components they use and how often they fail.

WHY and WHY would I go for this overpriced German toy when I can get myself a Dacia Sandero for £90 PM. The Sandero is a great car!

I've been buying Audi's for last 14yrs and nothing gets close to interior quality and or reliability IMO.

Are you the sort of driver who thinks everyone else is getting in your way, by any chance? :smile:

Haha...Audi was always better interior wise than bmw or merc. Those are noisy full of cheap plastic

£276.50 a month then, not £198?

I have this car on a previous lease - I would give it a try before you make a judgement - its no BMW M3 but its also not priced in the same way - lots of modern cars have small engines these days with some 4x4's having as little as 1.0 and some 3 cylinder's as well!

I have had the car for 12 months now from a deal on here and I am really pleased with it and came from a BMW z4 - I find it nippy enough for a big car and it does 47-48 mpg on most trips

Sorry. That is very slow by modern standards. Having said that, this is a great deal for someone who doesn't really care about the engine.

1.4 lol. I don't think C class or 3 series come in an engine size that pathetic. To think some people think a glorified Passat can compete with the other two. There's a reason why you can't find the competitors at this price, cheap for a reason.

Very nice ....heat!

Hold on.. do you need to add VAT onto these prices ? Or is that already on?

Looks the nuts...gonna get hot..

Certainly looks a bit better. Copied some bits from BMW but that screen has the stick on feel from Mercedes. Can't complain though as better than before and the price is right :wink:

Good find. Hope Audi has improved their car interior since when I last visited one of their showrooms in 2015 and was underwhelmed.