Because Argos choose to do a 10% off £30 minimum spend promotion code across the whole Argos eBay store? No, I don't think this means that at all. :laughing:
DexMorgan
28 Mar 179#12
Wow.
I miss the days when accessories cost LESS than the console itself.
DexMorgan
28 Mar 178#5
Does this come with the 500gb or 1tb PS4?
Latest comments (84)
si121
31 Mar 17#84
Can I just add that I find it extremely handy to have the PSVR as a second screen if the Mrs wants to watch something on TV.
Jimmy.T
31 Mar 17#83
Oh, what an atmosphere
I love a party with
a happy atmosphere
so, let me take you there
and you and I'll be dancin'
in the cool night air
Reasonable price for this Glorified Electric Hat *tm*
titchyyyyy
30 Mar 17#82
I purchased the VR not long ago and sold it after a week. In all honesty, the experience was mindblowing, playing RE7 was terrifying and it was well worth the money for the experience, after I sold it on, I think I was down about £14, not a bad price to pay to trial the VR for a week in my eyes.
The reason I sold it on was because it has no replay value, once you experience it for the first time, it's not really much fun after that as it's the same thing over & over again. I feel like I was forcing my self to use it rather than using it for the fun of it.
On one hand, I do believe that VR gaming is the future but on the other hand, I can see it being quite limited on what it can actually do. PSVR is a low cost way to experience proper VR - £500~ if you can find a decent PS4 deal. Give it a try!
psycho_terror
29 Mar 17#81
In this case, despite it being required for VR to work, I'd say the console was the accessory.
biddilybah
29 Mar 17#80
It appears it is unfortunately. I'll expire the deal. :smiley:
copperspock
29 Mar 17#79
Aye I loved what I played of Battlezone. I don't think it causes any motion sickness either.
txugo
29 Mar 17#78
can't add it to the basket. sold out?
fatkitty1970
29 Mar 171#77
The x-wing vr mission on battlefront is superb when that Star Destroyer flies in and you see the size of it through your cockpit it is a great moment (till it opens fire on you!) Also Battlezone vr is great fun to. Just got mine last week and it is pretty amazing.
Scrat
29 Mar 17#76
When are we going to get holographic rooms like on Star Trek, that's what I want to know... :wink:
Uaisley
29 Mar 17#75
Good deals, nice headest, but the price is much for me, just looking here.
moorevfr
29 Mar 17#74
Amazing device loved mine and would suggest for anyone to give a go.
However traded mine in for a Nintendo switch as being a new dad never had time to zone away in a VR world will get one later down the line again!
But loving the switch managed to put more hours into it thanks to the pick up and play mentality of it..
seandpop
29 Mar 17#73
I'll have half a dozen then
si121
29 Mar 171#72
That's not true in the slightest. I was quite excited when I heard the latest update supported 3D movies on the PSVR but everyone knows the resolution isn't up to scratch.
si121
29 Mar 17#71
It'll be a shame if 3d TV's are completely phased out. Admittedly, I don't use mine all that much but it's nice to have the option!
cheapbiker
29 Mar 17#70
But what is to come? Not much looking at release schedules. Gran Turismo could have been a saving grace but that's apparently only giving a nod to vr, the main game isn't vr.
cheapbiker
29 Mar 17#69
You should keep it to yourself that you're keeping it to yourself.
copperspock
29 Mar 17#68
RE7, Driveclub VR, Dirt Rally VR, Rez Infinity, Bound, Eve Valkyrie, Battlezone, RIGS (there are likely more that I'm not aware of). All dependent on what type of games you're into of course.
chrisredmayne
29 Mar 17#67
can we talk about games ? is there actually anything good for vr yet to make this worth it
biddilybah
29 Mar 17#66
This keeps doing the rounds for some reason... Panasonic are supporting 3D this year still. Look up the Panasonic EX750. They're also planning on selling the DX902 for another year which is also 3D. LG dropped 3D because Samsung has been beating them when it comes to achieving 1000nits on HDR tvs. The 3D removal is a short term fix until they can keep it in while achieving the same level of brightness.
Still lots of 3D movies releasing this year which are coming to blu ray too. :smiley:
Stimpington
29 Mar 171#65
Everyone's an expert when it comes to burgeoning/failing technology.
Not me though. I know FA and I'm keeping it all to myself.
How cool is that.
migavupe
29 Mar 171#64
The best way to watch 3d is with the PlayStation vr.
Scrat
28 Mar 17#63
Whether it is passive or not that was the impression I got at Disney, people in the audience reaching out trying to touch it. I have never had that in a cinema here, nor on my top of the range Samsung 3D TV which uses active 3D. Maybe it's just the way the content is filmed.
mastablasta
28 Mar 171#62
The 3D at Walt Disney World is exactly the same using passive glasses on your face.
The best way to view 3D personally is via a large projector screen using active glasses. It's much better than in the cinema as you actually put your hand out to try and touch the object even though you know it's not there.
3d on a 4k OLED set looks fantastic. If 3d were to be launched in 3-4 years time when OLED becomes more mainstream it'd be more of a game changer than HDR, instead it was launched too early on crap 1080p sets that either required expensive active glasses or a dim passive picture.
And toshiba did launch a TV that didnt require glasses a few years ago, supported something like 10 viewers, cost a fair few grand though and the picture wasn't up to much, but the tech is there.
Scrat
28 Mar 17#59
I wasn't talking about VR being anything like 3D if you followed the conversation. :stuck_out_tongue:
KirstyB87
28 Mar 17#58
rudy691
28 Mar 17#57
people complaining about lack of games - tech was released in October. few decent titles were out since. PSVR had actualy more titles on release than PS4 had as a console. E3 coming soon and Sony will showcase more games, as sale already surpassed whatever they were planning for.
cheapbiker
28 Mar 17#56
Great tech, shame there appears to be no appetite from Sony or other games companies to actually support it now. I had one at launch but sold it before xmas when I saw the thin release schedule. At least the PC VR headsets have a whole modding scene behind them to convert stuff into VR.
sirmaggie
28 Mar 17#55
what cool stuff is???
moneysavingkitten
28 Mar 171#54
Wow you like the sound of your own voice.
KirstyB87
28 Mar 171#53
I was more so referring to the wildly ignorant comments one sees from such people who insist that a console-equivalent gaming PC costs a minimum of £1000. I wasn't suggesting that the person to whom I was replying believes that to be true.
It's not that simple, i.e. it's not just about a GTX 970 being cheaper today than it was when Oculus Rift CV1 first launched. Technology has moved on whereby newer and cheaper VR-capable cards are now on the market.
Also, it's not just about hardware because things are becoming more optimised in software too. For instance, the likes of Oculus and AMD have something akin to PSVR's reprojection technology whereby cheaper lower powered GPUs can now cope with VR gaming by way of perceived frame-rates that are lower than actual frame-rates.
Time will tell. If it does happen then it'll be great for Oculus Rift owners who have a PC and Xbox Scorpio. Then again, with the direction Microsoft are taking I don't imagine many people will be in that boat because there's next to no reason to bother with Xbox when one has a Windows 10 PC.
abdi12346
28 Mar 17#52
This angle looks like a hair dryer
moneysavingkitten
28 Mar 17#51
I don't think it's console brand cheerleading at all. Oculus has been out for a year and a half, 4 years if you count dev kits. The parts required for a VR ready PC have just dropped in price since it's inception.
Edit: oh and it's very unlikely Oculus will be supported by Scorpio. There is a completely new mixed reality headset of which dev kits are already in circulation.
If you think it's comparable to 3D, you fundamentally misunderstand what this does.
moneysavingkitten
28 Mar 17#49
According to Sony, the console is the accessory.
KirstyB87
28 Mar 17#48
Of the three main VR solutions only HTC Vive (and other SteamVR-powered headset in the future) is a truly open system. Facebook are seemingly set on introducing something akin to the awful anti-consumer console industry business model of timed-exclusive games on Oculus Rift. PSVR may become more open once it's able to run on PC - something that Sony has already talked about making happen.
Check out the upcoming SteamVR-powered headset from LG because its design heavily borrows from PSVR.
Sony also messed up with PSVR's chunky breakout box that doesn't work properly as a pass-through device when connected to a TV with HDR.
metallica182
28 Mar 172#47
Sony lost interest in the PS Vita fairly quickly. That's my worry about PSVR. Besides the tech demos like being in a shark tank, the only things that look half decent are Until Dawn's experience, the Wearwolf game and Resi 7. Besides those, what are the must play games (actual games that will last more than a couple of hours) that a PSVR user should own?
stevennoad
28 Mar 17#46
Not really cos it's brand new tech, blu Ray players were £1000 when they first came out even DVD players were over £500 too and now they cost £30 so I expect these to be £100 or £200 in a few years time.
KirstyB87
28 Mar 17#45
Thanks, haha! I'm keen on the concept of VR gaming but the three main headsets all have their respective issues which isn't entirely unexpected given how new (proper) VR gaming is. I'm happy to wait until the technology matures a little further and there are more worthwhile VR games available before spending so much money. All power to those who don't mind spending so much money on fledgling new technology though.
roymunsen
28 Mar 171#44
Anyone thinking of buying one, I've owned one since December :
Absolutely mind blowing experience, everyone who's tried it loved it to bits. I can't imagine playing cockpit games without it, same goes for the new Resident Evil.
But.....
Most of the games are just experiences with very little replay value and not a great deal of choice slated to come out in the next year.
If you've got money to burn and like cockpit based shooters, then go for it.
kyeung
28 Mar 17#43
Too be fair if you already have the camera and the move sticks (optional for most games) and a PS4 already then this is not bad price for a good VR experience. Especially with some free games and currently there are some decent discounted VR games on the PSN store.
I enjoyed the VR experience on my Samsung VR but wanted something better so recent bought the PS4 VR and was pretty impressed with the experience. Whether its worth more than a console then time will tell. Looking forward to Farpoint and the aim gun coming out soon. IF I get bored of the VR, I'm sure I can resell it for a reasonable price.
slannmage
28 Mar 17#42
Oculus Rift is £600 with the Touch controllers and it's WAYYYYYY better! My friend owns all 4 of them as he's a VR nut and I tried them all, the PSVR sucks, the tracking just doesn't work at all, plus you pay an extra £100 just to get bad tracking on PSVR, might as well spend a little bit more to get something that works. Plus PC VR you can watch any video content and there are way more games on it because VR really benefits from an open platform and experimentation. Some of the best stuff I've tried is Valve's tech demo thing, that lot way pretty amazing, Superhot is also really good.
The only good thing about PSVR is it's by far the most comfortable if you wear glasses like my mate does, however it has this annoying connector thing that has a really short cable and dangles down like a weight.
MisterMadHatter
28 Mar 171#41
OK, so you make a good point when you consider those factors. I'm not a console brand cheerleader but I'm probably misinformed about needing an expensive gaming rig to meet the requirements for smooth VR on a PC.
Thanks for the info. I now consider myself 'informed' :smile:
KirstyB87
28 Mar 176#40
Oculus Rift (inc. camera & superflous Xbone controller) & Oculus Touch set = £598 SRP
HTC Vive (inc. 2x camera for true room-scale VR & VR controller set) = £759 SRP
PSVR & old hat PS Move set & generic PS4 camera = £460 SRP when purchased separately.
Impending SteamVR-powered headset from LG = TBA
You'd be surprised how low a price PC is now required for VR gaming, i.e. it's very far from being the super-expensive uber PC that uninformed people and console brand cheerleaders would have you believe. Suffice to say that a PC will also do much more than any console can so it's not an apples to apples comparison.
If its top quality that you want then, as with most things in life, you pay your money and take your choice. PSVR is an overall good product for its price and when it's, officially or otherwise, able to run on PC then that'll further increase its worth. If Oculus Rift is officially supported by Xbox Scorpio, as many are assuming will be the case, then its worth will also further increase.
It depends on how one considers it. If you're focusing solely on upfront costs then, yes, PSVR will be cheapest. However, when one factors in the longer term financial commitment then a good chunk of money will be clawed back by PCVR gamers due to the cheaper game prices on PC. Also, if you want the best from PSVR then you'll also need to buy a PS4 Pro.
Then what happens in circa 3 years' time when PS5 arrives because there's absolutely no guarantee from Sony that the PSVR sold today will be compatible with it. That's not an issue with PCVR. So, to respond to your assertion, it depends on what one means by "better value" because there's more to 'value' than price. Value is very much a subjective matter.
Vanderlust
28 Mar 17#39
So want but know I'll puke. I've been having trouble with modern FPS games. Couldn't play more than 15 mins of Alien Isolation for example. Real shame.. Tried some fixes but nada, still get motion sickness.
snowblindcrash
28 Mar 17#38
JOIN US! Then buy Werewolves Within and never leave VR...
metallica182
28 Mar 171#37
This doesn't include the cost of the Playstation camera or the PS motion control wands, either...
decade
28 Mar 17#36
have been eyeing psvr since last year, got payable TCB around 30 quid, please give me a reason not to buy this.. 300quid without controller and camera still expensive for me(cheaper than rift n vive).
biddilybah
28 Mar 171#35
You poor sod. Nobody deserves to be put through that. Nobody. :disappointed:
:laughing:
biddilybah
28 Mar 171#34
I don't own one either. £300 is a bit too expensive for me too, so I get where you are coming from. :smile:
doggboy10
28 Mar 171#25
even though I'm a PS4 owner I have zero knowledge about the vr side of things.
is this compatible with standard PS4? do all PS4 games work on it? cod etc...
is it basically like playing games on a huge TV?
how are the controls mechanisms & what space range does it require?
apologies for all the questions but i fancy a new gadget and want to make sure it's justified.
biddilybah to doggboy10
28 Mar 175#33
It is compatible with the standard PS4. You will need to buy a Playstation 4 camera on top of this mind. (Around £40ish). There are games specifically made for it.
I think you can play non VR games on it in cinema mode to simulate a bigger screen but I personally wouldn't bother as it does have a lower resolution compared to your TV output. However, you can watch 3D blurays through this so that's one benefit.
The way it works is you feel like you are actually inside the game. Things are literally right in front of you on VR games. On Until Dawn VR for example, I had pig carcasses hanging in front of me and it feels like they will hit you.
A lot of games work using your standard PS4 controller but some require the purchase of the Playstation move controllers. Most work well without those though.
You don't need the amount of floor space that Kinect would require for example, but do make sure you have some room as you will need to move around (basically turning around not jumping around like a prat :laughing: ). Hope that helps. :smiley:
MisterMadHatter
28 Mar 171#32
Aren't those sets around £500 though? Add to that the need to have a suitably high-powered PC, surely the PSVR option offers better value once you've added everything up.
raschoudhury
28 Mar 171#31
It is a matter of opinion. My mate has VR and it is enjoyable. Played Res evil and that was good. But i personally don't think it is worth £300+. But just an opinion and I am cheap. Bought the ps4 when it was £180 hehe
KirstyB87
28 Mar 17#30
It's great that for the SRP of £350 the PSVR comes supplied with a pair of VR controllers and the required camera just like Oculus Rift and HTC Vive do. Oh, wait...
maccy1
28 Mar 172#29
Haha, I didn't even goooogle it, but now you're going to make me :laughing:
Ninbox4
28 Mar 172#28
Well let me tell you; it certainly scarred me! :smirk:
maccy1
28 Mar 172#27
That doesn't look like one of my horrors :laughing:
SamboBambo
28 Mar 17#26
Although it may seem expensive, it's still currently the cheapest VR experience you can get for gaming by a country mile when you compare it to the Oculus or the Vive.
Ninbox4
28 Mar 173#24
Very good! But I think your real eye was caused watching too many films like this: :wink::smile:
Scrat
28 Mar 17#23
4k will die eventually when 8k comes out. 3D is dying, 4k is on the up at the moment as the TVs that cost thousands a couple of years ago can now be bought for hundreds. The 4k Blu rays will have to be reduced in price eventually but at the moment they are just too expensive for most people.
maccy1
28 Mar 175#22
It never did my 1i any harm NB :confused:.
:laughing:
lutherinlondon
28 Mar 17#21
none on the eBay site.
Scrat
28 Mar 172#16
3D is unlikely to be around for much longer. I can't say I have used it very much on my TV, price of 3D blu rays generally too high. It's never been up to the level of 3D that I saw at Disneyworld 10 years+ ago. Until someone can come up with 3D that doesn't require ridiculous looking glasses it is never going to be mainstream.
biddilybah to Scrat
28 Mar 171#17
Well 4K will die too then as they cost more than a 3D Bluray. :wink:
3D is fine on my tv though for what it is worth. I've heard great things about PSVR with 3D blurays too.
However, this headset really shines with the games.
Blaat_blaat to Scrat
28 Mar 17#20
the have but that requires you to sit in the exact right spot which is even worse. I don't mind the glasses. I bought this in release day I have used it for about 40 hours in total still amazing and really cool to play around with I am just waiting for a real rpg to be released.
I think the problem is that the 3d we get now (outside of VR) in cinema and Tv is more like a box 3d it does not jump out the tv and cinema screen and that is the 3d that people want now it's more like a tunnel 3d which gets boring after a while and doesn't add the the experience
raschoudhury
28 Mar 17#18
Weird how it costs more than the console that it needs to run it.
biddilybah to raschoudhury
28 Mar 174#19
Not when you look into how much the headsets cost on PC it isn't. :smile: Also, Samsung Gear VR with a Galaxy s7 costs just as much as this but isn't as good. If anything, PSVR is the cheapest even with the console price factored in.
tomgwood
28 Mar 17#15
Verry good buy! HOT
copperspock
28 Mar 17#14
I'd view this more as an alternative to a telly. It's still a bit above what I'm willing to pay mind.
maccy1
28 Mar 1732#2
Heat added, great deal biddy :laughing:
Ninbox4 to maccy1
28 Mar 172#13
Very good maccy! You speak the truth :laughing:
DexMorgan
28 Mar 179#12
Wow.
I miss the days when accessories cost LESS than the console itself.
Ninbox4
28 Mar 171#11
Good to see some discount on the PSVR headset biddy, another nice find!
DoctorDeals
28 Mar 171#10
cold as not xbox compatible
gally789
28 Mar 172#6
Going the same way as 3D TVs??
Robinsad to gally789
28 Mar 172#8
i love my 3d TV, it needs to be available on 4k TVs before I'll upgrade
biddilybah to gally789
28 Mar 1713#9
Because Argos choose to do a 10% off £30 minimum spend promotion code across the whole Argos eBay store? No, I don't think this means that at all. :laughing:
DexMorgan
28 Mar 178#5
Does this come with the 500gb or 1tb PS4?
Robinsad to DexMorgan
28 Mar 173#7
neither
davelfc
28 Mar 17#4
I've seen someone use one of these on their PC for Elite, looked great.
Opening post
Thanks again to Millarcat for the heads up on the code. :smiley:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/offer-stack-10-off-code-stacks-with-20-off-home-20-furniture-clearance-argos-ebay-2647788
Top comments
Heat added, great deal biddy :laughing:
I miss the days when accessories cost LESS than the console itself.
Latest comments (84)
Oh, what an atmosphere
I love a party with
a happy atmosphere
so, let me take you there
and you and I'll be dancin'
in the cool night air
Reasonable price for this Glorified Electric Hat *tm*
The reason I sold it on was because it has no replay value, once you experience it for the first time, it's not really much fun after that as it's the same thing over & over again. I feel like I was forcing my self to use it rather than using it for the fun of it.
On one hand, I do believe that VR gaming is the future but on the other hand, I can see it being quite limited on what it can actually do. PSVR is a low cost way to experience proper VR - £500~ if you can find a decent PS4 deal. Give it a try!
However traded mine in for a Nintendo switch as being a new dad never had time to zone away in a VR world will get one later down the line again!
But loving the switch managed to put more hours into it thanks to the pick up and play mentality of it..
Still lots of 3D movies releasing this year which are coming to blu ray too. :smiley:
Not me though. I know FA and I'm keeping it all to myself.
How cool is that.
The best way to watch 3d is with the PlayStation vr.
The best way to view 3D personally is via a large projector screen using active glasses. It's much better than in the cinema as you actually put your hand out to try and touch the object even though you know it's not there.
And toshiba did launch a TV that didnt require glasses a few years ago, supported something like 10 viewers, cost a fair few grand though and the picture wasn't up to much, but the tech is there.
It's not that simple, i.e. it's not just about a GTX 970 being cheaper today than it was when Oculus Rift CV1 first launched. Technology has moved on whereby newer and cheaper VR-capable cards are now on the market.
Also, it's not just about hardware because things are becoming more optimised in software too. For instance, the likes of Oculus and AMD have something akin to PSVR's reprojection technology whereby cheaper lower powered GPUs can now cope with VR gaming by way of perceived frame-rates that are lower than actual frame-rates.
Time will tell. If it does happen then it'll be great for Oculus Rift owners who have a PC and Xbox Scorpio. Then again, with the direction Microsoft are taking I don't imagine many people will be in that boat because there's next to no reason to bother with Xbox when one has a Windows 10 PC.
Edit: oh and it's very unlikely Oculus will be supported by Scorpio. There is a completely new mixed reality headset of which dev kits are already in circulation.
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/03/01/windows-mixed-reality-dev-kits-shipping-month/
Check out the upcoming SteamVR-powered headset from LG because its design heavily borrows from PSVR.
Sony also messed up with PSVR's chunky breakout box that doesn't work properly as a pass-through device when connected to a TV with HDR.
Absolutely mind blowing experience, everyone who's tried it loved it to bits. I can't imagine playing cockpit games without it, same goes for the new Resident Evil.
But.....
Most of the games are just experiences with very little replay value and not a great deal of choice slated to come out in the next year.
If you've got money to burn and like cockpit based shooters, then go for it.
I enjoyed the VR experience on my Samsung VR but wanted something better so recent bought the PS4 VR and was pretty impressed with the experience. Whether its worth more than a console then time will tell. Looking forward to Farpoint and the aim gun coming out soon. IF I get bored of the VR, I'm sure I can resell it for a reasonable price.
The only good thing about PSVR is it's by far the most comfortable if you wear glasses like my mate does, however it has this annoying connector thing that has a really short cable and dangles down like a weight.
Thanks for the info. I now consider myself 'informed' :smile:
HTC Vive (inc. 2x camera for true room-scale VR & VR controller set) = £759 SRP
PSVR & old hat PS Move set & generic PS4 camera = £460 SRP when purchased separately.
Impending SteamVR-powered headset from LG = TBA
You'd be surprised how low a price PC is now required for VR gaming, i.e. it's very far from being the super-expensive uber PC that uninformed people and console brand cheerleaders would have you believe. Suffice to say that a PC will also do much more than any console can so it's not an apples to apples comparison.
If its top quality that you want then, as with most things in life, you pay your money and take your choice. PSVR is an overall good product for its price and when it's, officially or otherwise, able to run on PC then that'll further increase its worth. If Oculus Rift is officially supported by Xbox Scorpio, as many are assuming will be the case, then its worth will also further increase.
It depends on how one considers it. If you're focusing solely on upfront costs then, yes, PSVR will be cheapest. However, when one factors in the longer term financial commitment then a good chunk of money will be clawed back by PCVR gamers due to the cheaper game prices on PC. Also, if you want the best from PSVR then you'll also need to buy a PS4 Pro.
Then what happens in circa 3 years' time when PS5 arrives because there's absolutely no guarantee from Sony that the PSVR sold today will be compatible with it. That's not an issue with PCVR. So, to respond to your assertion, it depends on what one means by "better value" because there's more to 'value' than price. Value is very much a subjective matter.
:laughing:
is this compatible with standard PS4? do all PS4 games work on it? cod etc...
is it basically like playing games on a huge TV?
how are the controls mechanisms & what space range does it require?
apologies for all the questions but i fancy a new gadget and want to make sure it's justified.
I think you can play non VR games on it in cinema mode to simulate a bigger screen but I personally wouldn't bother as it does have a lower resolution compared to your TV output. However, you can watch 3D blurays through this so that's one benefit.
The way it works is you feel like you are actually inside the game. Things are literally right in front of you on VR games. On Until Dawn VR for example, I had pig carcasses hanging in front of me and it feels like they will hit you.
A lot of games work using your standard PS4 controller but some require the purchase of the Playstation move controllers. Most work well without those though.
You don't need the amount of floor space that Kinect would require for example, but do make sure you have some room as you will need to move around (basically turning around not jumping around like a prat :laughing: ). Hope that helps. :smiley:
:laughing:
3D is fine on my tv though for what it is worth. I've heard great things about PSVR with 3D blurays too.
However, this headset really shines with the games.
I think the problem is that the 3d we get now (outside of VR) in cinema and Tv is more like a box 3d it does not jump out the tv and cinema screen and that is the 3d that people want now it's more like a tunnel 3d which gets boring after a while and doesn't add the the experience
Heat added, great deal biddy :laughing:
I miss the days when accessories cost LESS than the console itself.