Nurse! He's out of bed again!

That test you are specifically referring to was run with an Nvidia card, the GTX1060.

If you want proof of AMD's well known and still existing DX11 driver overhead for lower end CPU performance then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-aP0JqJkJ0&t=6m56s

Enjoy.

In some cases the drops are utterly brutal against the GTX1060.

Nvidia have better drivers and better features. More stable in my experience with the likes of Wattman and AMD update headaches. If you have a less than stellar CPU Nvidia are also particularly better, they have less CPU overhead which can make a big difference in slower systems.

Even if RX 480 was slightly cheaper than this and slightly faster I would pick Nvidia for the above reasons. AMD would have to make a much better card to make me prefer them.

Very good price for the 6GB model - good find (and don't forget 3.5% cashback from TCB).

But will it play Minecraft on maxed out settings?

Still think the RX 480 8GB is the better deal.

but will it run crysis ?

Much better card here, and cheaper too: http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/msi-rx480-gaming-x-8g-carte-graphique-amd-radeon-rx480-202-amazon-fr-2613139

Typical. Waited ages and finally bit the bullet less than 2 weeks ago from Amazon and now it's even cheaper.

They don't do that anymore. I tried with a laptop which had its price drop by £80 the day after. They refused, so I returned it.

Thanks for posting, finally took the plunge and ordered one of these for my first ever build!

Will this be a Good upgrade from a 670? I'm not a hardcore gamer so can't justify much more than this

It used to be the case where a lesser CPU would bottleneck AMD cards but AMD have massively improved their Direct X 11 draw call in late 2016.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/51qr80/amd_dx11_api_overhead_1691_vs_1683/

So this is no longer an issue.

This or the RX480 msi?
I am currently running a 3570k oc to 4.4 ghz with a EVGA GTX 760?

We should see a nice price drop on all the 10 series cards now, if the rumoured pascal refresh is true.

EDIT: Ordered, thanks a lot OP! Have some heat!

I wouldn't believe it without seeing some benchmarks.

Even your theoretical results show only a 1 FPS gain in single threaded FPS.

So yeah, I don't believe AMD has fixed their CPU bottleneck, and your link doesn't convince me.

Also, note, they lost FPS in both DX 12 and DX 11 multi threaded performance.

Only last week Digital Foundry pointed out and demonstrated it was still an issue when testing lower powered CPU- the newly launched G4560 with these precise cards, the 1060 and RX 480.

Infinite warfare was chosen as it was a DX11 title with fairly high CPU demands.

Needless to say the RX 480 crashed and burned on the test because of the driver overhead. Nothing has much changed in other words. Bear in mind this is a CPU that is brand new to January 2017, and also often faster than a stock 2500k (depending on memory configuration).

A great many people do not have CPU performance better than this.

Here's a quote from the digital foundry review you mentioned about the 4560.


Care to point out where there show this issue?

That test you are specifically referring to was run with an Nvidia card, the GTX1060.

If you want proof of AMD's well known and still existing DX11 driver overhead for lower end CPU performance then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-aP0JqJkJ0&t=6m56s

Enjoy.

In some cases the drops are utterly brutal against the GTX1060.

sooo tempted but must resist :confused:

This is a great price for the card, the AMD 480 8gb is also a cracking card and can be got for around this price point.

If you go red or green in this price point you will get a good card either way.

The main thing that is often overlooked is the monitor, if you don't have the funds for a gsync monitor, AMD is the best choice here with FREEsync.

Fair point, and it would seem that Infinite Warfare is one of the few exceptions going on the comments further into the video.

Personally, I would say that people on this much of a budget are much less likely to upgrade sooner, and as such should be looking forwards not backwards, and a heck of a lot of 2017 titles this year are going to be DX12 compared with last, and the tables will have turned meaning that the Nvidia DX12 performance will be where the DX11 is for AMD cards now.

Lol the reference RX480 is noisy. However if you want no screen tearing with less input lag then a freesync monitor is typically over £100 less than the Gsync equivalent, so then you'd pick the RX480 over the 1060. If you're not bothered then Nvidia is the way to go for similar cash.

It is well documented on several DX11 titles and unfortunately, usually very popular ones. Infinite warfare isn't alone, but it uses an engine from a massively popular game series. DX11 remains the API path of the vast majority of recent and modern titles most play.

While I agree that eventually if you upgrade the rest of your platform in its entirety and still keep the card then the Radeon might have a small performance edge at that point if we discount overclocking. But I didn't just say performance originally either as the sole valid reason for picking a card. Nvidia still has better driver support and features IMO.

It just appears a much larger majority of people gaming on weaker systems that would see a much larger performance benefit from choosing an Nvidia card.

In short Nvidia have always had more consistent performance. Ultimate performance averages then with a fast CPU the GTX1060 is probably 5 percent slower, but that is pretty much all it'll be and largely negligible to actually gameplay.

Whereas in circumstances somewhat likely to occur (you don't have a powerful CPU and you play DX11 games on it) the Radeon can be catastrophically slower. So much so that it seriously affects your gameplay.

This isn't often discussed because AMD won't want people to know about it but also because even cheap cards are always tested with £400 processors on sites and so you never see it. But I know it's a major issue for many people, the ones without high end gear. Which is basically 95 per cent of people when you see the hardware surveys lol

What's the context though? If the games are powered by Nvidia they will have a bias. I'd need to check out some comparisons for games not powered by Nvidia, maybe they are in that video. I'm not biased I don't care as long as there's healthy competition I'll choose whichever is the best. Anyway if more games favour the GTX 1060 then it's a sensible choice, as DX12 titles are few and far between.

this is a superb deal for the brand of card that it is i advise anyone trying to upgrade to purchase one before it runs out quick you wont be disappointed hell i wouldv bought one myself but already having a 1060 3gb (i cudnt miss out on the offer as it was £160 from ebay brand new) which i havent even used yet and still sealed i think its just absurd for me to buy the same card but with 3gb extra on the ram, not to mention the rx 480 powercolor i bought a couple weeks ago too so i have a handful of cards already ...dammit shouldv waited to get this instead.

Thanks OP! Saw your post on the deal I posted and managed to Cancel it. This is alot cheaper but I have had nightmares with MSI (recently my Laptop). How good are these cards?

yes im aware of that too but still like you mentioned the gtx 1050ti i have one of those too :/ so im planning on waiting on a better price regarding the gtx 1080 and if not ill just wait until the volta architecture but it was told that we shouldnt expect it to arrive in 2017 so with that in mind ill just see what amd has to offer with their vega cards if they plan to release it this year

mind you novetech rarely put out a bargain like this thumbs up to them for this one

I've got the 3gb version of this card, a word of warning, it's bloody loud all the time. Even when idling on the desktop the fans run at 50% and there is no way to reduce that. If you use your PC for anything other than gaming or are someone like me who's botherd about noise I'd say don't get this card.

I'm really happy with the performance of mine, but the noise is a right PITA.

They used to use LE for the gimped versions, maybe they should bring it back.

if it was excluding the tax :stuck_out_tongue: id buy this already

needs SLI

General issue, thread on MSI forums here: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=280153.0

well damn i just read this response from somebody from that forum :confused:

yeah I found that out too late :disappointed:

woot! they are in stock. MSI also comes with Afterburner software better than any AMD software.

you can use msi afterburner software on mostly any card including amd's

Thanks OP! been looking for a good deal on this for a while :-)

Ah yes I was trying to remember, my brain is too old now :\ I remember all those old GPUs 15+ years ago

LOL.

meh my 512MB 980 pro eats this alive

r u talking about the geforce 9800?

Your argument is pointless unless someone is using that CPU.

It was a 6GB GTX 1060 but different manufacturer to this MSI one. I doubt Amazon would match that.

The 480 4gb has 7gbps RAM versus 8gb with 8gbps RAM. It translates to real world speed, around 3-5%

By 'that' CPU you mean the millions of people using lower end parts.

It's also fair to say Nvidia have nice stuff like gameworks and shadowplay, a feature I use a great deal. For the past 18 months when I have installed a new AMD card onto a Windows 10 machine the drivers frequently crash the thing. When they have apparently gone on correctly I also often end up with complaints about annoying wattman error messages that won't go away, and the advice is and I quote AMD support here 'just disable notifications'.

Such a pain and AMD haven't ironed out the issues in their software even now. AMD make good hardware but their software support has never been as good as Nvidia's. Like ever. Ever ever since the ATi days.

I'm sure I speak for the masses when I say you're boring us all.

Providing you have an adequate cpu the better card is the RX 480 8GB. If you've a low end CPU then go for the 1060.

Simples, no need for 101 fanboy links and comparisons to irrelevant tests to game specific modes and hardware setups.

Please stop crying like a baby. this is an Nvidia deal, not an AMD one. You don't have to hang around here and fail miserably to negate my points why Nvidia is a good choice for many people.

RX 480 is marginally faster. Not a stock one though, this GTX1060 is overclocked.

Nvidia are the choice for most. They persistently maintain their consumer market share lead and dominance for professionals like in the compute and workstation sectors, seemingly regardless of what AMD do. The default choice for game developer platforms is consistently Nvidia too, unless AMD pay them not to. Think back to the devkits for Xbox one. Despite the whole chip being an AMD part, the early devkits were Geforce powered!

Ask yourself why.

Only person crying is you with your 6 pages essays.

Got a shoddy CPU? Buy this card.

Got a capable CPU? Go for a 480.

Need someone to bore you or write a book? Contact vulcanproject

I already pointed out it goes beyond CPU performance. If you can't read then I totally understand your problems and sympathise. If you just want to troll then sign up to reddit.

I'm sure I can contact a mod here and they can direct you.

nvidia wins

intel wins

amd loses thats why they are so cheap, just like nike's wins over adidas's allday hence you can buy a pair of adidas's for under 50 quid but those air max's....THOSE BEAUTIFUL AIR MAX'S are SOON going to make me HOMELESS!

AMD's slogan should seriously be

AMD - "Love Me all Winter, Hate Me all Summer"

in other words "Buy me for all winter then sell me before summer"

aint that right? :innocent:

It's interesting that you think the 480 is a better card with a good setup.

Benchmarks don't actually agree with you.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_1060_Xtreme_Gaming/26.html

And I've seen far more NVIDIA 1060s OC higher than the 480s as well.

So, how bought you find some reviews that back you up?

Yawn are you still ranting?

I don't need to simply google you will find plenty. The only Dx12 titles 1060 beats 480 is Rise of the Tomb Raider which is “Game works “,so no need to explain why it performs good in that. Everything else you're better off with the 480 that's my opinion and many others if you don't agree tough luck it's the Internet get over it ..

Oh but you're ranting here! Stop writing essays!

Double posting in fact! What a joke.

Be quiet. This is a deal for an Nvidia card and the advantages for it have been laid out and you have failed to refute them.

Take your 'opinion' somewhere more relevant.

Yawn .. why don't you show me results where this card beats the 480 in dx12 ? On a system that isn't a low end cpu like your boring pointless links showed? We've gathered that the 1060 is the better card for low end cpu's but the 480 is not the slouch your links make out when paired with a more capable cpu. Which is why I as like others have the opinion that the 480 is the better deal still.

after reading the posts i cant wait for the ryzen vs intel deals lol

this is like man utd vs liverpool (liverpool being AMD)

What links I posted that make out the RX480 is a slouch? I pointed out the driver issue and demonstrated it beyond doubt when requested. Nobody requested your nonsense and idiotic behaviour.

I have indeed made good points and you have not refuted them. You just spent the whole time saying the same thing over and over like a typical troll.

This is a deal for an Nvidia card.

We get the picture, you like the RX480 which is a tiny bit faster at stock and lacks many of the advantages Nvidia have. You also like trolling. Neither of which is very useful in here.


Correct. Typical RX 480 OC is only about 10 percent. 1266mhz boost stock. 1400mhz max boost is hard work for most of them.

This particular cooler on this MSI card I have seen support ~2050mhz core boost which is a 20 percent OC on GTX1060 stock boost speed. Pretty typical results on a decent cooler you should still expect 2000mhz. So even 17 percent is common.

everybody knows that nvidia poops on amd cards every single time but its just the fanboys that cant afford the actual superior card will always go ahead and spend their money on a cheaper alternative mind you buying an amd card does save you a lot on your gas bill and also you can give the hot water bottle a rest and just grab your amd card and tuck yourself in bed really nicely during winter, even tho i already have the rx 480 8gb i just hate the fact i have to be running it with msi afterburner showing me the osd all the time because fear of burning the not just the card itself but everything along with it inside the case ...seriously amd sucks cuz of the temps and please dont reply back with the infamous "RyZen" because that has no benchmark whatsoever...its a **** cpu not a GPU

You really are boring and missing the point. The 480 is the BETTER deal.

And for the record I own a 1080 I'm no 480 fan boy I simply know a better deal when I see it and the 480 is a better deal :smiley:

Really tempted by this, but my computer is having trouble lately, so I think I need to look in to that first.

Better deal huh? How? By stock RX 480 video cards being like 5-10 percent faster in half a dozen (AMD sponsored) DX12 games?

That's one single factor and on review of tests, rather a small one even without taking into consideration the overclocking factor. I don't buy cars based solely on how fast they ultimately go for example. I don't know anyone who does to be honest.

What you mean is in your opinion it's a better deal. An opinion which we can see isn't particularly authoritative. Keep trying I suppose, but not in here please. It's a deal for an Nvidia card.

I mean, you just told us to "just google it" and you refused to actually back your opinion with anything other than yourself as a source.

You are doing a Donald Trump and stating "Alternative Facts, just google it" as your response. If that's how you want to be interpreted, on your head be it.

Clearly you're clueless - I don't need to back it up it's a fact, a fact that the 1060 fanboys are ignoring. I've asked them to show me the 1060 dx12 results that beat the 480. They simply don't exist the 480 is the better deal the fact you muppets keep arguing is laughable because not once have I said the 480 is the better card it's simply the better deal for people with a descent cpu that's my opinion and many others and I'm a 1080 owner :smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uoanTrMenI

They trade blows. Can we all just stop arguing now? xD

It's like an echo chamber in here.

I'm not going to get in to to performance arguments, what I will say is I think the AMD driver issues are personal experiences and not indicative of general consensus.

It sounds like a straight case of poorly prepping a system for a new driver. Using DDU is essential especially if you're switching brands, but also best practice between updates. I haven't had a single driver issue.

In terms of Ryzen, following the leaks today, we should all be rejoicing it's the single biggest change in the computing landscape in the last decade if prices are correct. If they bench as they would appear to I'll be doing an AM4 build very soon indeed!

The wattman issues are incredibly widespread and remain unresolved. I was even reading an RX 480 review the other day on a professional site that stated they failed to manage the card's clocks/thermals with this feature because they were having major wattman stability issues as well.

That is a specific issue, it's a terrible piece of software TBH after personally using it (recently, not months ago) with various older and newer AMD cards, they need to do a lot more work on it. Definitely not down to user installation errors.

Well the video clearly shows the 480 pretty much coming tops most games and clearly is the more future proof card in that video so again as like others I think the 480 is the better deal provided you don't have a low end cpu.

Well, I speak of my own experience and can confirm I've had no such issues with drivers. I'm not suggesting there aren't problems experienced by some users (that's PC's) but I've found 16.X and 17.X drivers to be great, particularly with the new functionality, I use ReLive a lot and Wattman is holding my OC fine.

That being said, it's not as if the same isn't true of Nvidia drivers. There's plenty of reported issues from January of driver issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/5pwfnh/driver_37849_faqdiscussion_thread/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3312531/nvidia-geforce-driver-378-causing-crash.html

So to add some balance, there is no perfect solution.

I don't get your links though.

One is to a standard new driver page on reddit which lists the usual routine fixes inside all driver revisions ever made.

The second a post with a couple of people who just clearly haven't got a stable enough overclock on the latest revision of drivers. More likely their fault. In fact the very post starter investigates further and blames his bios after ruling out this driver revision!

If it happens to crash because of user overclocks then those overclocks that are not promised/provided for within Nvidia's own driver software and are entirely the responsibility of the users in those cases. Unlike Wattman.

On the other hand one quick look at 'Wattman problems' and you'll find a ream of results from the very moment they released in the summer right up until now. Course Wattman itself is just AMD overdrive renamed and rebranded because Overdrive had a long reputation for being absolutely rubbish.

It's difficult to see the comparison you made to be honest.

Then there is Linux...

I don't want to get in to a pointless debate, but if you take the time to read the comments in both of those links (before posting), start with reddit, you'll see a number of issues.

There's also this:
https://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/issues-with-nvidia-drivers-378-49-preventing-minecraft-loading.214966/

Whether you choose to see an issue if up to you but there were enough reported issues to cause Nvidia to release a statement and days later a hotfix to address the bad drivers.

Utopia doesn't exist.

All this "trust me I used an ati card in 1996 AMD driver issues" people talking out of their asses. Have dealt with over 50 card @work from each manufacturer in recent years and I had (few) issues with both in the same measure.
Dare I say in win 10 world AMD drivers have been noticeably better than nvidias, whose win 10 drivers stank for a while.

On the card, heat added. Having said that for me, pound per pound the 480, with the freesync bonus and the extra vram is much more often than not the better buy, end of story.

RyZen is not cheap for whoever kept on boasting about it being cheaper than intel - http://www.game-debate.com/news/22279/complete-list-of-amd-ryzen-cpus-and-first-ryzen-prices-revealed

Got my card tonight, and found a chip/nick in the cooler shroud, and a backplate that isn't perfectly straight. I've tested the card and it's mounted and working okay...whatcha think guys, keep or exchange?

If you decide to exchange, i'm sure Novatech would be helpful about it. I've always had a good customer experience with them

Nah, I still can't speak out about the horrors inflicted by the 4870x2 I had...:confused:

What the hell are you talking about?

an i7 only cost £339.21 - http://www.ebuyer.com/766075-intel-core-i7-7700k-4-20-ghz-socket-1151-8mb-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80677i77700k?mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=51482416739&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CO70hpSzhtICFUI_GwodtXAGJw

i5 7500 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MZZJ1P0/?tag=ho01f-21

Not sure if you're serious, or have shares in Intel.

The RyZen chip is a massive change to the market and is excellent value.

How many cores and threads do those KL i7 have and what's their TDP?

An R7 1700 will be cheaper than a competing Intel chip whilst also having significant power efficiency and DOUBLE the cores and threads.

How you claim that isn't value I have no idea. In a multi-threaded application the difference should be very evident.

Also, as they're all unlocked and with low TDP it should be easy to air cool and Of nicely.

The i5 competing products will be crazy value.

You'll need to buy a better more expensive i7 than that to compete with Ryzen. Trust me the Ryzen is gonna be a bargain compared to the higher end i7 prices of £1000 6900k's.

oh please you guys are talking too damn early...like how the masses were praising watch dogs before it even released

Who mentioned Ryzen?
Who speculated on pricing?
Who suggested it can't compete?

That'll be you then. We just spent the last few posts informing you of the huge differences you didn't seem to be aware of.

i mentioned ryzen isnt cheap for an amd product

weather it can compete we shall see once it is available but why i was saying it cant because it never did. but all of a sudden now people are having high hopes over it being somewhat superior after all these years not to mention its a new beginning for amd as it was an old story for intel as they have been leading the market for ages. if you are right then i guess its hats off to amd but i doubt it...

I'm guessing you're young because you talk like all you've ever known is intel to be top when it isn't the case I can remember when everyone wanted AMD and tbh though it's only hindsight right now but if early videos have shown are true then for the next 12-24 months intel is about to lose its crown "again" ..

why ? did you think i was 45 or something?

So you linked to two, small, isolated threads on massive tech forums and pointing to a handful of comments on (also massive) reddit and you're saying that this single driver revision caused a few problems with specifically Minecraft, which Nvidia fixed within a few days?

I still don't get your point then. Wattman has been broken and causing problems for 6 months without being properly fixed and you are comparing it to a small Minecraft issue Nvidia fixed within days?

Surely that reinforces my point? Nvidia just have better drivers and support.

The have better Linux drivers, they have better updates, they have better in driver features, they are more stable and I have never had an Nvidia card crash a system on me on first install and I have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of systems at this point in my business travels.

AMD has had first install issues for ages that cause lots of crashes and again, is well reported. It hasn't changed in some time. AMD's RX driver releases in particular have been impressively unstable. I must just be the only one who is familiar with a lot of different hardware and spends some time on PC and technology forums. But lets not mess about with scattershot individual cases on forums:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/12/08/amd-radeon-rx-460-review/

In fact about halfway down even this professional reviewer who deals with a lot of AMD hardware mentions it! lol

"Things got off to an inauspicious start when my test PC hung catastrophically during the driver install and rebooted with a disk error. Nice. Unfortunately, that’s not entirely an unusual experience when it comes to firing up AMD boards for the first time. If you have an occupational sideline in playing with these things you learn to dread the initial install process with AMD boards. It probably isn’t actually all that often that it ends in disaster but I’ve had the dreaded black screen that can only be resolved with a full re-install on more than one occasion."

Can't argue with that from personal experience.

That's one example that added balance to your otherwise one sided comment. There's plenty more on Google.

You keep saying you don't "get it" but there is nothing to get, the fact of the matter is that in the world of PC gaming driver and component issues still exist, across all manufacturers.

My personal experience of my last two cards having gone from 290 to Fury is that I've not experienced any issues. The features of the ReLive drivers are a nice addition.

As for good/bad drivers, watch this video. The drivers have improved very nicely indeed.

https://youtu.be/CiYQqNiqQKU

Hopefully you understand my point of view this time around, my last post in an utterly pointless debate.

Oh issues exist for lots of components.

But when someone who deals with a large amount of components say they exist more for this vendor and when someone else on another site who also deals with lots of hardware and says it as well and confirms it as such you should probably listen and think there might be something in it.

I honestly don't get your comparison, I think you are right when you say there is nothing to get.

You could have probably picked an example that wasn't a few people having problems with a new revision of Nvidia drivers on Minecraft that was fixed within days when I had been talking about long running unfixed to date AMD issues!

I'm glad you had a good experience with a sample of two cards in three years.

Ordered one last night thanks for the find heat added

Ordered ty. Nearly got the 480 8gb but 1060 uses less electricity for just £10 more, better in long run!

Less electricity is less heat generated by the card too :smile: i'm waiting a little longer in hopes that one of the compact/mini cards drop to £200. Bought a RX 480 before but it was exhausting hot air onto my SSD :<

Needs to be expired, deal has ended

still available for me. thanks op

I bought the 6gb card on this link and it indeed does run with the fans set to 49% min at all times, i tried Afterburner and theres a yellow dotted line at the 49% mark which i couldnt lower the speed below, thinking i had a defective card i messaged MSI and found out
Ticket:
Fan Speed
Content:
Dear Sir,
Thanks for contacting MSI technical support team.
Because your card is not GAMING Serial product,so the fan would be running in idle and 3D.About the min fan speed,it should be 49%,can't be changed.
Thanks for your cooperation in advance!
Best Regards,
MSI Technical Support Team
apparently its bios locked to this speed all the time as a min although it does go faster it wont go slower.

Ordered one last night. Should be good for the HTC Vive. Thanks!

Watercooling block it is then!