Yes, also a good replacement for an Aston Martin is a Ford Fiesta with a spoiler... does the same job afterall!

ummm

In all honesty, one needs to think, do I need all this power..... if you are buying solely for the streaming, then buy the Mi Box 4K.... it is identical as the shield without the gaming grunt, there is no doubt these are the best boxes out there, but bloody hell they charge for that

Sorry found it, this App Store is a bit on the small side. I know I can side load but still thought there was going to be more.

Anyway, what a fab device and believe me I had all sorts of media players over the years.

I've just checked. It's on the play store. Make sure your location settings are set to United Kingdom.

where did you get the BBC iplayer? can't find it on the store.

It's available without having to side load

is kodi an available app on mi box or do you have to sideload it???

Coin batteries.

Probably cos it includes the remote which isn't with the original.... it retails at £50 seperatley.

BBC iPlayer wasn't available before the official release date. Downloaded it last night working perfectly now. The Shield is fast!

Me too, no problem installing iplayer ....this box is amazing. I've had loads of kodi boxes and this puts them all to shame. Seems way overpowered for what it is. That is a good thing!

I was watching BBC iPlayer on my shield last night. I just searched via the play store and downloaded it...

This is an amazing box! Probably one of the best around for kodi and 4K TV. So much better than the mi box! I had a shield back last year after getting it in the Black Friday deal for £99 but sold it due to not being able to use the amazon video app as I'm an amazon customer. Now with the software update and amazon video being useable I'm definaltely going to get another one! Anyone wondering whether this is worth the money can rest assured it is! Heat added!
https://www.google.com/amp/www.droid-life.com/2017/01/15/nvidia-shield-tv-android-nougat-update-50/amp/?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Not sure.

Might return it, although the controller is much much better - I prefer the old box looks much nicer and not a cheap piece of fat plastic

can you confirm if the remote is chargeable or is it powered by a coin type battery please?

Nothing on Play store, actually it says iPlayer is not supported.

I've emailed the BBC, hopefully I can get an answer from them!

Mine arrived today.

Pros:
Controller is much nicer, comes with remote

Cons:
No SD card slot for extra storage.
Looks smaller and fatter, looks cheap and doesn't look as nice or as premium as the old nvidia box.

Play store? BTW is the remote rechargeable of does it use a coin cell battery?

I received mine this afternoon from Amazon. Does anyone know how to install BBC iplayer on this?

Is there any limitation to having the 16gb can I just a USB then job done... Apart from ir

​I need to look into this. Thanks!

Use my old Harmony One.

After I've read 20 pages about it on the Shield forums it would seem though...

What can you do with the ir??

Yes but you get 500GB HD :laughing:

For an extra £110 over what I paid for the "old" model on Amazon? No thanks.

Get the Pro it retains the IR receiver and SD Card slot.

Does not have the IR capability though, as I mentioned earlier.

I'll be getting one for upstairs and keeping my original in living room, but I don't see these as an upgrade, more just the next iteration of the same gen. Similar to what went on with the ps3's. No issues here.

That defeats the object of having a compact unit. For me (absolutely) no reason to 'upgrade' to the newer model, it's an epic fail on behalf of Nvidia and I'm sure (in time) the older models will sell for more than the newer ones on the secondary market.

Still has USB for extra storage.

Old version has micro-sd slot, new 16gb version doesn't.

Yes, what an epic fail. I'll be keeping my original.

is the pro worth the extra?

Not if (like me) you want to use your Harmony One...

Having thought about this a bit - the new model is 20 quid dearer.

I mentioned about using my IR Harmony One.

So I sell it for, say, £40 on eBay, less the 10% for eBay and 5%ish for PayPal.

Doesn't really make much sense for a £15 odd profit.

Better off buying the new version and selling the remote for £40+.

STOCK ALERT!!

Amazon have 27 of the old 16GB models right now...

edit: seems they have found more and more stock...

I agree.. it is outdated and I would love to upgrade but my situation is a bit complicated. It's a Sony all in one system with the Speakers wired through the ceiling and mounted nicely on the walls together with a powered amp. I've looked into replacing the AV only but the exiting speakers would not cope, according to Richer Sounds. Replacing everything with new speakers would be a DIY mess.
Looking to move house this Year so have decided to wait until then for my AV upgrade.

It must be a very old amp? HDMI passthrough is a basic feature these days.

Also you will be missing out on HD audio - what a difference it makes. Reminds me of the jump from old Dolby Surround to Dolby Digital now I can enjoy True HD et al. The range and fidelity is superb.

Not criticising - just saying, maybe time for an upgrade?

The lack of a dedicated digital / coaxial audio out port except via HDMI pass-through is disappointing.
My Home theatre AMP does not support HDMI pass-through so unfortunately this is not for me.
I know there are HDMI-Optical splitters available but that is sub-optimal.

V4 of the shield OS, built on Android 7.1, is out later this month.

I was reading on the nvidia shield forums that the hardware is exactly the same as the existing shield, just in a different case. V4 of the Shield OS is also out this month giving all the additional software updates as well. No reason for anyone who already has one to even consider buying the new model then. Unless you want a remote with no rechargeable battery or headphone socket that is.

Waiting on a deal, please someone ;-(
Needed it to be £150

Don't move, stay still, ignore, walk away. Hmm not for you.

My Shield TV does 4K HDR, GeForce Now, PC game streaming, it has access to thousands of apps on the Play store - tell me again why I should "upgrade" to the new version...? Well apart from the strange looking grips on the controller, which is the top selling point, obviously.

Ha,ha I've done the same..I have a lot of different boxes over the years but the nvidia shield is by far the best.

I'm pretty sure it will make an appearance sometime soon.

FYI: 16GB New Model doesn't have an IR sensor for those who may use it.

So will the shield tablet get Android 7?

I've just reduced my order for the 2015 model on Amazon to one instead of two, so I imagine the other one will go back into stock, get ready with the F5 button!


edit: it's there right now for anyone that wants it.

Just a heads up the current shield will be updated to Android 7 and do the exact same as this in the coming months and you will be able to plug in the Google now things they will be selling. I read this earlier from a trusted site, you must remember that the new box has the exact same internals as the old one it's just smaller.

I got the same deal, I think I got mine from Scan on Black Friday 2015, also bought a second controller at the same time. At the time a few retailers were pushing the shield at low prices.

For once early adopters actually got a better deal! :smile:

From Amazon?

Now TV doesn't work over Chromecast on the Shield unfortunately.

I wanted to get a shield to add an external hdd and install plex as server and client, but I read that you can't write to the external hdd, which means disconnecting to update content. I also read you can only do this by using a micro sd and merge the storage in android.
So I passed.
Does anyone know if that is a thing of the past with the new update?

​Same here pal. Don't do any gaming on mine, upgraded from a HD fire tv, would not go back or mess about with some cheap box from aliexpress.

So am I right in thinking my 1st gen Nvidia Shield wont work with Google Assistant on the controllers I have now (Remote & Gamepad) and I would have to buy the new ones?

Why is the 1st gen Nvidia wireless Controller so expensive to buy now?

custom x1 chip apparently & custom operating system.

so we will just have to wait and see :smiley:

The Switch is using a chip more powerful than the Tegra X1 isn't it? Probably why Nvidia didn't upgrade the new Shield since they have a deal with them.

all Nintendo consoles to date have been hacked fairly easily, so it won't be long before the switch gets hacked and the code released to developers and thus emulation :smiley:

​have faith... it'll only be a matter of time :smiley:

I'd be in awe if they could pull that off I think your 100% may be on the right lines but 100% impossible .

another possible bonus of buying one of these is its the same specs as the new upcoming Nintendo Switch console apparently, so I would think emulation on the shield should be near enough 100% :smiley:

I'm glad I bought the original shield tv back when it only cost £118 with the controller & remote included on black friday :smiley:

Yes, also a good replacement for an Aston Martin is a Ford Fiesta with a spoiler... does the same job afterall!

I have both boxes too . Although the 4K fire tv is quick the shield deffo seems faster to me

I've been using the Shield the past year just bought the Fire TV and the speed of Kodi is the same.
If anything the Fire TV is faster in closing Kodi as the Shield would often hang when trying to close it.

cold - £25 Android box and an old games controller does the same job

great box
loads quicker for kodi than fire tv 4k version
managed to side load amazon prime too
bought it a ehile back when amazon were doing a prime day for £99.99
also had a £10 credit for signing up for audiable too
so only cost £89.99
one of my best buys
also added bonus my sony w95 b tv remote controls the nvida shield too so happy days
not using to to its max but at only £90 doesnt really matter

The current shield is still immense. It's the best setup box I have used.

Right all my 2 cents. My current Nvidia Shield 16GB is currently on eBay now.

It is the best android TV box without a doubt, it's fast responsive and also has HDMI CEC and acts as a Chromecast which is great for stuff like NowTV and Kodi and Plex for whatever they have on.

However this is not worth spending money on if you literally only want to watch iPlayer and use Kodi etc it's a massive overkill and any other device can do that without issue.

My choice of device would be the Fire TV box it has all UK apps and can also get Kodi and Plex fairly easily.

TL;Dr : Only buy this if streaming from a PC or game streaming straight from Nvidia. If your just using this to watch video your wasting your money.

​it will be patched for all features

no reason to upgrade from the original sadly

No optical audio out again I see.

I think thier was issues with the old model.. As said before I couldn't get it to display 4k.. Whilst my Amazon box did it no worries. I bet the new one improves in support for devices

Tried again with a 'known good' APK and either Amazon Video crashes when trying to actually play a video (interface is fine), or the 'Leanback' launcher crashes when trying to play a video...

Perhaps very old games could be problematic on the Shield due to a potential lack of decent controller support, but certainly not most games developed within the last decade or so.
I for one have had no issues running the likes of DOOM, GTA V, DA: Inquisition, Battlefield 1, Dishonored 1 & 2, Borderlands, (the list goes on) with either the Shield controller or an X360 controller. You can even use a keyboard and mouse with the shield should you prefer.

Hi all. How does these rate with kodi . Running intel dn2820 purely for kodi but looking for something new to handle 4K and iptv .
Are there still issues with android regarding refresh rates and passthrough sound ?

I run everything through my amp so surround sound is important to me.
I know it's a lot of cash for kodi player but I'm after something reliable and very quick

Cheers

THE OLD ONE IN STOCK AT AMAZON RIGHT NOW!

EDIT: and it's gone again...


I just bought 2, clearly it is a better deal, I was going to have to get the new 500gb one just so I could use my Harmony One!

This is not entirely accurate. I have a 1080p monitor plugged in to my main PC yet I am able to stream to my 4K TV in either 2K or 4K by simply following the advice found here -

Stream 4K without 4K monitors (you will need to add a custom [email protected] resolution if you plan on gaming at 2K)

The price is not inflated. The original Shield TV (non-pro) was £149.99 without the media remote. That added another £39.99, bringing us up to £189.99, the price of the non-pro bundle that includes the media remote.

As for blocking old models, I've no idea where your getting that idea. An update is due some time this month that will give the existing shield tv's all the new features expect those that require the new hardware (IR blaster and always-on mic), which you can still get by buying the new controllers if you want.

I would if they actually sold it here not just US

Plex and Kodi are available and I've installed them. They work great.

I haven't tried the others, but the google play website is allowing me to install Crunchyroll and Tasker.

The IFTTT, Stringify and Blackmart Alpha apps don't allow me to select the shield for installation or my Nexus Player, so I assume these wont work for any Android TV device. You could, of course, side load the apps (turn on debug mode and use adb) but there's no guarantee they will be usable.

Fairly certain I read if you buy the new controller it enables it

Quite a few yesterday but none of them stated, thanks for the link!

I wonder if there's a method of adding an external mic that will allow the always-on function.

Nvidia are getting ridiulous now. They are apparently making the "previous" model end of life.

Essentially what you get is EXACTLY the same box (with a remote) one and a half to two years later (an absolute age in tech) at the same price, maybe more. Nvidia clearly had their hand forced into manufacuring the "previous" box, due to no interest in their chips. Now they are trying to market them as a new model to inflate / keep prices high.

This model has an update, all they are doing is blocking all previously sold models, essentially forcing people to pay again if they want new software / features. It's essentially how they abandon / gimp previous gen gpu to force sales of new. but at least they are new tech (to a degree)

Shields are completely unrestricted to my knowledge. Keep in mind the support you get from nvidia will be miles better than anything you get from most other Android STB manufacturers. I'd like to see other which other manufacturers provde such frequent timely updates to software, including the newer gen feature set

have you actually read any articles at all? it's literally in all of them, but here's one: https://www.cnet.com/products/nvidia-shield-tv-2017/preview/

How locked down are the Nvidia Shields? I have a bunch of android apps I want to install and the ability to do so will be the decider between the Shield and a generic Android box:
- Plex
- Crunchyroll
- Tasker
- IFTTT
- Stringify
- Kodi
- Blackmart Alpha

I haven't read any article that states the older generation will receive the announced software features?

Is it me or does anyone think the new controller design is reminiscent of Kryten from Red Dwarf?

How come? I got Amazon Prime Video running on mine no problem the week before last. I had to go and grab an APK manually, and expected countless problems, but the latest version runs smoothly and interacts fine with the remote.

I bought my Shield in the offer last year, think it was 120 including remote and game controller. I had been using an old gen-1 AppleTV (with XBMC) for about 5 years then an MX-III for XBMC/Kodi for another year. Both of them struggled a little on 1080p and you were never 100% confident that a film would play. Also they weren't that quick and the interface was slightly laggy. A poor enough experience for the kids to use. Full Android (as on the MX-III) may be "more powerful" than Android TV, with a larger range of apps, but they aren't as focused on a TV-based UI making usage not as intuitive and consistent.

I couldn't be happier with the Shield. I only run it at 1080p but use it for GeForce Now game streaming, all the emulators (Dreamcast being the poorest, but the rest pretty acceptable and night and day above the performance you'll get on most generic Android units), Netflix, Amazon Video, Plex, YouTube and Kodi. Video file playback is perfectly smooth, handles blu-ray rips across the LAN from my ReadyNAS effortlessly. The UI is super-responsive and the only niggle I've had with it was to do with it randomly losing the game controller after the previous major update. This seems to now be resolved.

For those looking for Emulator support - have a look at http://www.retroboxtv.com/ as it packages up a lot of compatible emulators and makes installing them a breeze, together with a reasonable TV-based UI.

I think 190 is a pretty poor price, but if you can pick up a 1st gen cheap, just do it.

ive got 2 original nvidia shield tvs, in my house, gigabit network, got quite a meaty pc down in the garage, have steam installed on it, and i use gamestream to stream to both of the shields. for me it works flawlessly, i stream in 2k and apart from the tinyiest amount of latency and i mean tiny (hardly noticable) it works brilliantly, and its also the reason why im going to order another one for my sons room. the game controller works out of the box with all my games on steam. love them, yes pricey but well worth it.



EDIT:

my network is 24 port gigabit tp link switch with cat5 e run to every room. the monitor in the pc is a hannsg 2k monitor and my main telly is a 4k samsung. i only say this as the shield can only stream resolutions native to what the pc has plugged into it, so if i had a 4k monitor i would be able to stream to it in 4k.

It's in practically every article about the new Shield. It's coming for sure.

Where have you read this may I ask?

Currently have a smartthings hub and quite like the idea of having one less hub in my home but cannot see them allowing my older Shield access to that feature and Google Assistant!

Search for VODBOX on Facebook and get you devices hooked up with the best plex server in the business

Anyone know any good source to load emulators on this? I keep seeing posts on hyperspin but most people have a 2tb hardrive connected. I just want to load it onto the 126gb SD card i've got in it already. Sorry to be a pain

100% as there are no hardware changes except for a design refresh :smiley:

I'll stick too my 500gb version that I picked up on amazon for £169.99 last year and wait for updates I think .....

If you have the x1, then there is no need to swap it for this has there are NO hardware improvements (infact the 16gb version now doesnt come with an ASD card slot apparently). This is the "new" shield summary (From Reddit):


New shield = old shield, that is now 40% smaller with new controller and Android N preinstalled

Old shield will get Android N update with all new features the same day as new shield releases

If you have old shield and buy new controller you will get generally have the same experience as new shield owners

Nvidia plan to support new and old shield the same way when it comes to software updates

Amazon video app will come to old shield too, my guess it will be preinstalled with nougat update

New controller uses Bluetooth, supports rumble and always on mic. You can use it on PC wirelessly too and it should work with your Android smartphone and tablet too

Remote looks the same but uses coin battery now

New shield has gamepad and remote in package

GeForce now for shield is different service as GeForce now for PC. Right now you have to have 2 subscriptions if you want to use them both

So basically, You will get all the software updates as "new" shield. Hardware is the same. The only difference is gamepad and you can buy it separately if you want to have always on mic and smart home voice control

Im just waiting for the Nvidia Spot now and get google home setup :smiley:

It is easy.. You don't need to extract the password anymore google it... I had sky with a Asus router

Very expensive in my opinion, you can have Amazon 4K box for 79£ but no games

I don't think that can be used as a Plex server though unlike the shield.

This is a cheaper version of the current Sheild, smaller, more integrated components. Even the touchpad has been removed from the controller to save money. I am amazed that an obvious cutback in costs has resulted in an increase in price?!?

I got the original shield tv a couple of months back and sold it a week later. It's certainly powerful but i was so used to the full android experience on my minix that i just couldn't adapt to the restricted android version (leanback launcher) on the nvidia. So many apps on the play store or aptoide wouldn't work that i use. No good for me. I agree with what others said on the gaming aspect. At this price you may as well have a ps4 or Xbox one but if you want a great media server then the nvidia shield tv is great for that.

Sorry, didn't make it clear, I have a Shield with the wand remote and the games controller. On a Steam game (or any on a PC), you use your keyboard to move, jump, etc etc.

Streaming down to the Shield from a PC and attempting to use the games controller makes, for me at least, a very frustrating event as PC games were built for Keyboard / Mouse inputs and the controller doesn't respond as well.

ps Yes, the Sky router is pants, came from a BT Hub 3 that had gigabit connex down to a much slower throughput on the homeplugs. I'd love to get a faster router, but believe that it's not that easy with Sky.

The original is the first media box I have ever been truly happy with. That is speaking as someone who has been buying and building 1-2 boxes a year since modding an original Xbox (longer if you count connecting PCs to TVs).

The Shield is fast, slick, runs all the apps I want, runs every format and resolution I can throw at it, is regularly updated with new features and is massively flexible.

It is a real shame they haven't really progressed it with either more power or cheaper pricing, but for geeky folk who want the best nothing else is quite up there with it IMO.

​Sky does not support the Shield, it's not the other way around.

I'm not sure what you mean about playing PC games using the media remote, why on earth would anyone do that?

Also, all but the very latest sky routers are 10/100Mbps only, so you would struggle with streaming games if you have one of those.

I think they're fantastic, and it looks like they're going to get even better with upcoming updates.

Please could you pm me some info on how to set up Roms in Hyperspin? I have the current/old shield tv and have tried but struggled to get the games to work on Hyperspin.....think it's something to do with the way the folders are set up on the hard drive? Managed to get a few games to work on the SNES emulator but not a single one on Hyperspin yet.... any help at all would be greatly appreciated mate :-))

meet the new box, same as the old box ... ish

Current shield doesn't play hdr YouTube content as it's missing codec support for it. Does the new model fix this?

I've got the previous version of this. Let me just say that Google TV is absolutely pants, not worth the effort. It does win on Voice Youtube and Chromecast support, however it does not support Now TV (eh?)

Works for Kodi too, and Plex, but found gaming to be too much of a pita to be bothered with. The PS4 games are made for a controller, transferring a PC game to use with the Shield remote does not work that well (GTA for example)

Also found, using Ethernet via Sky box, could only support 720p gaming with poor latency.

Overall, an ok box, but too many limitations for me to use daily.

I use my shield for Kodi and spmc.. then gaming especially for hyperspin.. 256gb of hyperspin on a micro SD card! Then a hard drive also.

Shame the new model has no micro SD card!

Expected more of an upgrade if I'm honest but what can you really do more for a media streaming device..

Yeh that’s what I did, they came into stock this morning so I grabbed one

I was lucky enough to get one of the five 16gb 2015 models amazon had in stock this morning :sunglasses:

For me, having an IR receiver and saving £20 was a bigger plus than a smaller console and getting a remote with it. I wouldn’t have used the remote and it’s tiny enough as is. I’d also rather have the micro sd and usb 2.0 ports. Everything else appears to be added by software.

Really looking forward to testing the spot

See my post above.

I use these where there is USB but no microsd port. Works a treat at full speed of the card.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009D79VH4/

And again, sticking with an old box is fine, but actually BUYING an old box is nigh on impossible.

And why bother, when you can just stick extra storage in the USB?

Comparison between the models Link

No point going on about it being the same hardware as the old box (minus the microsd and micro usb but who cares, you can expand the storage by USB 3.0, and if you really want to use a microsd then just get a USB 3 microsd adapater!).

Where are we to buy the old box anyway? They're sold out now and I see some have gone for silly prices on eBay as usual, although I'd reckon that will calm down now with the new box announcement.

i bought one of the older ones when on offer from amazon... i couldnt not get it to display 4k on my panny tv... wouldnt go over 720p. had to return!!

let hope the new model irons out these issues...

ummm

In all honesty, one needs to think, do I need all this power..... if you are buying solely for the streaming, then buy the Mi Box 4K.... it is identical as the shield without the gaming grunt, there is no doubt these are the best boxes out there, but bloody hell they charge for that

No micro sd slot on the 16gb model :/

No one knows really....it only said 'business decision' on the FCC cancellation of the tablet

Yea not upgrading the internals was a shame. I thought they didn't update the shield tablet because of the Switch?

SMALLER ?! It should be bigger if anything, my main complaint of the original is that it looks too small beside the PS4 and it doesn't hide the wires at the back

When I tried emulating the gamecube it was so buggy - Any good guides on this?

Perfect for you then......I just think. And I am coming at this from a big shield fan....if your only reason is as a streaming box there are better options out there....and nvidia has decided not to really upgrade it...just a refresh.....now tin foil hat time. A few people on neogaf are disappointed in the specs and believe it is to do with the deal nvidia has done with Nintendo. And could not release a box that is more powerful than the upcoming switch. Which nvidia is providing the chips for

I will be selling my ps4 (don't game anymore) for this as they have amazon prime now.
Over the years my set up always been a playstation and an android box but there always compromises like hd sound and lately h265.
This has the power for light gaming, Kodi, Netflix, Amazon video, plex, h265 and much more.

Mi box and others always fail when comes to updates, Nvidia has been on the ball with this one.

I think theonly way to justify this box is for a plex server, as it is the only way it make sense to me.... buy a Mi Box 4k and Steam Link, will still only be about £90, and that is 2 main selling points of the shield...so there is still £100 left to justify....and for that I am allowing a plex media server....reaching but best I can come up with

I think they have confirmed the older box will be updated to have all the same features apart from the ir blaster which is hardware. I think you may need one of the new remotes or controllers for some of the added voice functions too http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/01/04/nvidia-updates-the-shield-android-tv-with-a-smaller-body-and-a-new-controller-for-hands-free-voice-control/

I don't know if the OP is referring to Amazon video on this new model, or just that they do 4K with some series, but I've never got Amazon video to work on my first gen shield (sadly).

The thing about the 40% smaller chassis is also kind of a moot point as the thing is fairly small anyway.

If your into gaming wouldn't a PS4,Xbox be a better option especially at these higher prices ?

Don't understand an RRP increase of £40 for the same box with the same internals.

It can do 4K HDR and the software update will surely come to both boxes..

Seems strange to not upgrade any of the insides.

Thanks for the availability heads-up! Just preordered from Amazon :smile:

If you need a Plex Server for multiple HD transcoding then this is a very good option - however, it might equally make sense to get multiple clients (thinking Xiaomi MiBox) that will support appropriate formats for direct play including 4K.

Just putting this out there for some opinions.

Is the Xiaomi MiBox officially available in the UK as yet? Last I heard, it was only available via import?

I dont sorry, but if you google the Mi box Kodi, there is 60 pages of discussion on this box, someone is bound to of spoken about pass through

Same price on amazon etc

http://www.mi.com/en/mibox/ has Mi box on HDMI2.0a.
Dolby TrueHD bitstream capable supported from HDMI version 1.3 onwards according to wiki

Anyway I'm miles behind on this. Which telly allows 5.1 passthrough? I've an old pioneer setup via optical which I want to keep but I'm in the market for a new telly and box. Over to the experts ...

I have the previous model and still pre-ordered this one. Best console/4k player!!!

Excellent post, lets all check the price drop on Mi box and previous shields come 17th Jan

Aside from the new controller it appears to be almost identical to the existing model.
Not certain on the HDR functionality, perhaps the current one cannot support HDMI 2.0a?

Was gonna post this but ain't that rrp?