The English...

Always hating what others have. Always blaming others for their problems...

The British government in Westminster have chosen not to offer these loans for the whole of the UK. It has also chosen to cut back on renewable energy investment in favour of new Nuclear deals. That has sod all to do with Scotland.

Someone doesn't understand the efficiencies of scale. Nor the advantage of not pushing emissions out of the tailpipe in already polluted cities.


Oh look, another one.

Well apart from Tesla's since they announced the free supercharging is going to end. The 14 plates had dropped below £50k now they are wanting nearer £60k!

Back onto the deal. The new 41kwh Zoe will set you back about £23.5k so over 6 years that's about £325pm.

The problem with this is battery capacity is getting bigger every year and cheaper. So in 6 years time you are going to have equivalent cars with bigger batteries and smaller price tags. At the moment it makes more sense leasing one than buying an electric car.

Electric cars need more of an incentive. They are currently building an electric lane in Nottingham which will be used by electric park and ride buses but also electric cars. The thing is if you work 9-5 and use that route then it may be beneficial but once again leasing or second hand makes more sense.

I suppose if you were planning on doing big milage then buying one with a unlimited milage lease battery (£110pm) and drive it to the moon and back then getting an interest free loan is a bonus.

Maybe down in Englandshire, but in Scotland (where this deal is), we actually produce a huge percentage of our electricity from renewables. In fact in a single day in August this year, the wind turbines alone produced more energy than the entire country consumed that day so with each passing year, "zero-emmisions" is certainly achievable.

ref: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/11/scotland-completely-powered-by-wind-turbines-for-a-day

Ah, the false economy of buying hybric/electric cars.
The worst depreciating cars on the market are all electric - you'd be bonkers to buy a brand new one.

The deal is for pure electric or any plug in hybrid.

This brings into play Mitsubishi Phev, BMW I range, VW golf's etc.

Oh yes the clean electric cars. Battery's built from open cast mining rare earth minerals. Thousands of miles of travel to assemble the batteries. And still using a polluting energy source to charge them up

[Fast depreciation]

We have had a plug-in Prius for four years. If we don't sell it then we don't have this issue. When I bought it I decided I was going to run it until it died.

It is so damn cheap to run. £37 fill gets you 600 miles out of a tank. And it's a pretty good size inside. Boot isn't the best, but fine for a small family week away (just!). Zero car tax helps as well.

I agree high outlay. But if you intend to keep it for the long run, then they are cheap to run on a daily basis and the financial 'hit' becomes very small if at all.

When you can get PCP deals on a Leaf for £189 down and £189 per month then buying an electric car makes no sense. We have run a Renault Zoe for two years and it has saved is a fortune.

Great if you want one, but I be a little concerned about the durability of some of these cars, the other thing to consider is some have a battery lease change on top of the cost of the actual car. More manufacturers / energy suppliers are doing away with free charge points and at approximately £6 for half hour charge given maybe 30 to 50 ish miles it's falling in line a how much the equivalent petrol car would cost to fuel and there's no half hour wait / limited filling points.

The most false thing about it is the zero emissions more than the economy.

Might not be any at the tail-pipe, but the coal fired power station that just charged it up just belched out the equivalent elsewhere. Some of it will be renewable, but it's just a ****** feelgood exercise.

The only way for the government to force adoption of these given the limitations in range etc is to subsidise the cost like they do in the Nordic countries. Many taxis are Tesla's for example.

I bought a 14 plate Renault Zoe as ex display with under 1000 miles on the clock for under £7,000. I pay £57 per month for the battery lease and also have the cost of charging at home. I am £50 per month better off than if I had bought a diesel car for the same price and had to pay for fuel. No false economy here.

Cold, you gotta move to Scotland to get this deal and it is cold there too.

how do u define "Scottish driver" ? anyone resident in Scotland is ok?

@bozzy - Why do you think it was a coal powered generator that produced the electricity? There's a better chance that it was produced at a gas powered station, or from renewables. In fact it's about as likely to have come from nuclear as coal.

UK produces around 25% of its electricity using renewables and this is rising to 30% by 2020. This trend will continue, so that is better than 0% and isn't some intangible feel good.

Someone doesn't understand the efficiencies of scale. Nor the advantage of not pushing emissions out of the tailpipe in already polluted cities.


Oh look, another one.

ah well we cant afford to give our old people proper care but we can fund interest free loans for electric cars :disappointed: another great use of taxpayers funds by a quango

Maybe down in Englandshire, but in Scotland (where this deal is), we actually produce a huge percentage of our electricity from renewables. In fact in a single day in August this year, the wind turbines alone produced more energy than the entire country consumed that day so with each passing year, "zero-emmisions" is certainly achievable.

ref: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/11/scotland-completely-powered-by-wind-turbines-for-a-day

Diesel has become a dirty word. Once upon a time it was the car to buy but not anymore.

A new yaris hybrid on drive the deal is £14,200.

Which would then equate to £197.91 per month.

Interesting point. Where did you source this information as I'd like to have a read of this during my lunch break

You beat me to it. A power station is massively more efficient than a car engine burning petrol for itself...

Added in with this, as has been mentioned, at least some of the energy for electric cars comes from renewable from the grid... And the potential is there for much more.

And a massive plus is they aren't spewing dirty fumes all through town centres! I hate walking past busses and getting a body full of exhaust fumes. Plus electric cars are far quieter meaning less noise polution and not to mention that they are much more comfortable to drive.

When a car overtakes me on my bike I’m always glad if isn’t a desiesel and I don’t have to breathe in their poison. If the car is electric I’m even more pleased.

Heat from me on behalf of all the cyclists that feel the same.:smile:

interest free loan to buy a car is always welcome..even
better if its electric. no more polution in our cities..

I agree - I have three ageing "bargain basement" diesels (under £1000 to buy) and they'll do 400-650 miles on a £50 fill. If you're talking pure economy it's just not worth the outlay for a hybrid (unless you drive it 24/7). Obviously if I had the spare cash to spend on less polluting cars I might consider it but at present I'd rather be able to afford to pay to have a roof over my head.

that easy to achieve with a population of only 5.2 million and more wind/storms than you can cope with!
down here in England its a different ball game pal in terms of demographics of people and consumption.
surely only allowing Scottish people to apply for this grant is again demonstrating the fact that you like to treat people south of Hadrian's wall differently!

The English...

Always hating what others have. Always blaming others for their problems...

The British government in Westminster have chosen not to offer these loans for the whole of the UK. It has also chosen to cut back on renewable energy investment in favour of new Nuclear deals. That has sod all to do with Scotland.

It's perfectly possible to run an EV on green electricity. Just sign up to a green provider and only use Ecotricity's Electric Highway when out and about.

Great deal, I finally have enough to get that Porsche 918 to go with my McLaren P1

Scottish drivers? Surely Scottish address??

A current electric car will be worthless if not useless when paid off in over 6 years.
As for the 'new technology takes a while to get going' thing. Electric cars have been around at least ten years or so. they are still pretty awful and expensive with no proper network in place for charging.

This is hardly a new deal been on the go for as long as I can remember.

@fireman1 - There are currently over 4,000 charging locations in the UK, which is around half the number of petrol stations. Given that for many people their electric car leaves home (and possibly work) fully charged every day anyway, how many do you need for it to be a 'proper' network?

Some of you people talk a load of rubbish based on media crap, Have owned a Leaf for 20 months and 24000 miles and a Zoe for 15 months and 10000 miles, traveled all over the country and with planning and have had no problems getting a charge. the electricity when charging at home costs me between 60 to 67p per day to do my daily 46 mile commute and when out and about its 99% free at destination chargers and 10.8p per kW at Chargemaster rapid chargers. it always brings a grin to my face when people rant on about how useless electric cars are, and I know smugley who the suckers are paying so much for there motoring.

Electric is the future and diesel/petrol will be consigned to the dirty pages of history where they belong.
Wake up everybody and smell the coffee, non-electric car pollution is killing people TODAY!

Overall even from a 100% coal powered grid (which isn't a thing in pretty much any country anymore, eg. Denmark 100% renewable) you'll still be emitting about 99g co2 per km v average 5 year old petrol/diesel car which is nearer 150-180g/km. So it's a fair bit less if you drive 10,000 km a year.

Also it's more about reducing pollution at local level. Air pollution is responsible for 30-40k premature deaths a year in UK. This essentially eliminates this in places like cities where pollution culminates and UHI traps pollution in.

Obviously there are drawbacks (battery assembly/change) but "normal" cars have equal numbers of drawbacks. Overall it isn't zero emissions car, but it has a substantially lower impact on environment and on public health.

CO2 isn't a problem. Deaths by "pollution" extrapolated into outer space. Do what you want to, but don't force me to pay for it.

I've had my EV for nearly two years now, it's great to drive, handles well as all the weight is low down and is super smooth. It has also saved me a fortune. I do 12-14k miles a year and couldn't tell you the last time I was in a petrol station!
They really are the way forward. I find it hard to believe anyone given the choice would opt to have a cancer causing diesel car anywhere near them or their loved ones.

Good on the Scottish Government for offering this loan - shame on the UK Government for not doing the same!

More segregation of our nation

any Scottish people want to make a quick tenner ?

But in scotland we produced 56.7% of our energy from renewables in 2015. My father works for SSE and up in Aberdeenshire we are almost 100% running off renewables most days, the gas powered stations sit idle waiting for demand to rise for sometimes weeks at a time.

I have a Mercedes C350e PHEV company car and it has great performance but economy is pants at 35mpg.

With only around 11 miles of electric range, the potential savings are hard to realise.

Would I buy as a personal car .... no way!

Once out of warranty, any problems will cost a fortune to fix as the dealers are nowhere near up to speed on the technology and a duff battery would possibly be the death nail!!

A very scary proposition!

,%"≥

Reading everyone's comments the perception of electric/hybrid and plug in hybrid acceptance is changing....I love sneaking up on cyclists and zipping past.

Deisel has become a dirty word and nobody mentioned particulates just smoke, cancer or fumes.

What about petrol, is this still part of the future of motoring?

Although I complain about the C350e - the Tesla Model S is a real game changer!

Knowing American cars, I was a complete sceptic but you have to try it to appreciate it! Fantastic to drive with a seamless wall of torque and radical interiors and dash layout.

With Tesla's technology and early infrastructure investment and adoption, you start to understand why the German prestige marques are so worried - and believe me - they are extremely worried!

I work in automotive engineering - with the death of the small diesel engine on the near horizon and the average product range consumption requirements going up - the push for electric has never been so urgent!!

Watch this space!

Not interested in Electric cars until I can get a Tesla. lol @ waiting for battery technology upgrades, they won't change a significant amount in the next 20 years.

What's "intrest"?

I have an Audi A3 sport back e-tron (plug in petrol hybrid). I charge overnight and round trip to work in 70 miles, about 20 of which are pure electric whilst the other 50 mixed petrol/electric (the computer decides when to use either). Average MPG is 65, although I have had up to 80mpg if driven carefully.

I can see both sides of the story, these cars are not simple technology and I have had a number of problems with the car back to Audi for work due to electric system faults on 3 occasions. In one case they had it for 4 weeks! Battery life is expected to be 7-10 years at which time you'll have a cost to replace. On the plus side, they have a great feature - automatic electrically heated when for when you go out to the car in the morning - no scraping the windscreen in winter.

Mines a company car and the reason I took it (from new) was the BIK value due to it being hybrid. Would I buy one myself ....... probably not. At around £35k for the hybrid - it's £15k more than the non-hybrid version and I doubt you would save £15k over the life of the vehicle unless every trip was full electric (really rough maths - 45 litre tank @ say £50 gives about 600 miles, so to make the difference up you'd have to do about 180k miles full electric and that assumes that you charge for free.

Sorry but have to laugh at the diesel haters/cyclists/electric car owners.
Diesels won't be dying out in the near future like they are hoping, electric vehicles are still nowhere near as practical as fossil fuel cars.
Yesterday I drove down from the Scottish highlands (about 40 miles from John O'Groats) down to Leeds. I didn't have to stop for fuel, Now I would love to know what electric car can do that. Even the majority of petrols would struggle (ignoring hybrids).

The initial cost of them is high and the depreciation is terrible (tesla being the exception to the latter) - they are still a long way to go before they will be able to fully replace fossil fuels.
Plus, the vast majority are blissfully ignorant of the very latest gen of diesels, which actually emit less particulates than the new gen petrols. Mine uses Pig Urine (adblue) injected into the exhaust to nearly eliminate NOx emissions.

Nothing like a bit of racism to make a point hey?

Nothing to do with this topic but if you go into the menu and turn on "let it snow" you pic looks good :sunglasses:

My diesel megane does almost 800 miles per tank, I can drive 200 miles at once without having to ask a stranger to plug my car into their place and I don't have to pay 60 quid a month for 'battery rental". Electric may be the future, but until they raise the capacity to at least 200 miles per charge, have charging points pretty much everywhere, make the charging faster and the car prices come down, isn't really worth it.

read some of the comments to try get a feel for how good electric cars are, but got bored of the tit for tat(some may call it debate)

so all i'll say is.......Give me a 911 Turbo any day :smile:

But how many people want to drive 9 hours in one go without a stop? Many would class that as dangerous.
So realistically you would/should stop at least once.
From a pure electric point then the markets pretty limited. At that only the Tesla would suit. Although technically you probably could do it with a 41kwh Zoe.

But in reality how many people are doing a 450mile trip in one day, not many. Most won't do that mileage a month.

I don't think electric will get big until the restrictions on fossil fuels start. When diesel cars start being excluded from cities then it might be the push people need.

I stopped twice (toilet trips and lunch) :smile:

I realise that about 75% of people probably only use cars to pop to the shops and do a school run (hence why there are so many lease deals with below 10k PA miles on here). Some of us do high mileage though, and its the high mileage drivers that would struggle to make an EV work for them practically. This is why Fossil fueled cars wont die out yet, until EV technology has caught up and can do the same range for less money. Tech is advancing all the time, and i have no doubt that one day Electric Cars will be the norm, but we are a long way off that yet.

For many people the electronic car is only suitable as a second car. The new Zoe has moved the goal posts for mainstream electric as now say a couple working and living in London could use the car for work and visit friends or have a weekend away without too much worry.

If you look at battery improvements (at the leading edge, so Tesla) capacity is improving at a about 6% per year and cost is dropping about 10% with the batteries being 20-25% of the cars price.

So now if you grab a napkin and a pen, you should be able to get a rough idea when you will be able to get a suitable car that fits your needs.

But the big scam here is this deal. If you were to borrow/spend the full £35k and based on 0.25% rate the Scottish government would borrow at they are paying in the region of £265 or about 0.75% of the loan.
Doesn't look so great now. :smiley:

@118luke - Let me make sure I've understood this diesel thing properly. It's a carcinogenic poison that contributes to the premature death of tens of thousands of people each year. It's so dangerous that hardly anyone keeps significant quantities at home, so each time I need to refill my car I have to go to a special building to get some, a building I hope is miles from home because of the associated pollution. When I 'plug it in' I get to breathe in the fumes and often end up with smelly hands, and then hand over 3 or 4 times as much as an electric car. The cars that use it burn it even when stationary, so I can run out while going nowhere, and require expensive regular service to cope with the damage the corrosive explosions cause to their insides.

Sure, it lets you go further than most electric cars, but until they fix all these other problems? Well tech is advancing all the time, and I have no doubt that one day Diesel Cars will be the norm, but we are a long way off that yet.

:wink:

I also have a leaf with the 30kw battery, even fully charged it has never shown a range above 106 miles.
My commute is 18 miles each way, in the summer this took 16%/20 miles off the range for each one way journey, hence 32%/40 miles for the return trip. I had to charge every 2 days. Different story now, each 18 mile journey is taking 25%/30 miles off the range, hence 50%/60 miles for the return journey. I now have to charge the vehicle EVERY DAY! I use a bit of town and rural country roads, I am also a very light footed driver and can achieve 50MPG from a BMW X3 3.5D on the same journey. Needless to say my next car will not be an EV as the advertised range is even more misleading than the bullsh*t MPG figures from ALL car makers.

​High performance small capacity diesel development is currently being backed off big time.
You will start to see larger capacity Diesel motors with lower states of tune to provide the same performance .... 3.0l diesels in place of 2.0l. The reason ... Combustion is easier to control over a narrower operating spectrum providing good consumption and much improved NOx and soot control.
VW Audi group have already started this trend and others will follow.
The 150hp/litre Diesel powerplant is no longer a target!

Instead, the money is now being diverted into accelerated development of gasoline electric assist - with particular investment in reliable and cost effective super capacitors which buffer the Lion Battery charging to provide much higher capacities and efficiencies of regenerative braking systems.

Can I attach a battery to me house and use the loan for it instead? Much better financial sense

You No speaked the inglish ???

I speak English perfectly well. What exactly do you mean by 'extrapolated into outer space' and why was pollution in inverted commas, as if you don't believe there is such a thing?

Can the people that say "It is just the same but not coming out the car" please stop talking? You sound like a 4 year old with absolutely no knowledge, study, research or experience of the topic. I am cringing.

Satchef1:


Satchef1! Top man! I love your comment!

The majority of English still do believe that they have colonies.