It's a £200 4K blu Ray player..... can't expect everything for that price, it is primarily a games console after all, bit of perspective my carp loving friend

Didn't realise the Xbox One S had a 4k blu ray player, makes it that much more laughable that the PS4 Pro doesn't have it. Makes me want to cancel my ps4 pro preorder

Life of Pi is actually perhaps one of the best examples of 3D, not 4K - it is stunning in 3d and I would go out of my way to watch 3D at 1080p over 4k any day.

​Big fail from Sony this one stopped me ordering one right off the bat

Prices are back up

You're whole hazelnuts!!

Free...you mean pirated? Some of us like the film industry enough to BUY a film the odd time. Such entitled people these days, "why should I have to pay to see a film?, outrageous". The only nut here is you

Lap up? I think that kind of suggestion is proved wrong, and my open-mindedness on the subject of whether not including a 4K or not is a good idea, is shown directly above. I've said we'll see. And still no critical word on Phil Spencer has been shown.

As for the optical port, you're just wrong. There's a vocal minority of people who are complaining about that being removed - but exactly how many people do you think are going to suffer from that choice? The Slim is the budget model. The budget model has less features. This is because those who want/need to get the budget model aren't likely to have audio equipment which needs an optical out. For those who want the most up-to-date system, including features considered specialist, there's the PS4 Pro.

Again, we'll find out just how many refuse to buy the most powerful available console just because it doesn't have a 4K physical drive in just around a month. And any audiophiles who refuse to buy a budget model even sooner.

Overly sensitive? No, just observant. This wasn't about comparing an announced console to a "revealed" console, either. Back to the point - I still find it odd that you lap up everything Andrew House tells you, but keep a critical word for Phil Spencer. The more even minded of us here would see BOTH with a critical eye. The bluray drive wasn't the only odd choice, Sony also removed the optical audio output on the slim model. Something which, again, is seen as a strange omission. When the S model removed the dedicated Kinect port, it was generally seen as a smart choice.

My advice - never be a fanboy. It just doesn't work in real life. Just get what works for you and don't worry what others think about your choice. I certainly wouldn't lambaste anyone for their choice in console, or otherwise.

I'd hardly say that's knocking Phil Spencer. I think for whatever reason you're being overly sensitive here. Phil Spencer gave a few specs - that's it. Nothing more. If you're making a purchasing decision a year away based on that, in what seemed very clearly to be mainly designed to have a PR effect on anything that Sony might announce, then more fool you. Meanwhile, we know what PS4 Pro is, we know when it's launching, we know how much it's going to be and we can judge the product on what it is. It doesn't have a 4K BD drive, and we'll see how well it does off the back of that. House could quite easily have added that they wanted to keep the cost down and that's why the drive isn't there, but it's pretty implicit anyway in his statement that they believe most people will stream their 4K content, despite any drawbacks and so they didn't believe it was worthwhile.

Well, you did say, "rather than having just accepted everything Phil Spencer said for ten minutes on stage." I just thought it was strange that you'd take in everything that Andrew House had to say during an interview, but not the same for Phil. I'd say that that is knocking Phil Spencer.


Maybe you're too young to remember, but, DVDs when they were 3 years old (2001) could cost up to £25-30! And since it was an exciting new format, people bought them. Same thing here. People just want to enjoy the new format and, well, do it legally. Screw them, right?! :P

I own an Xbox one S. Yes it has a 4K blue ray player built into it. But no I won't be buying a single blue ray 4K disc. At £20 each, you say on here these are a "hot deal". This thread is 310 degrees hot. What planet do you guys live on? Since when is paying £20 for a disc "hot". My other boxes are an Amazon firetv 4K, and a now tv box. I've loaded Plex on both and kodi on the firetv. There are some 4K movies on Demand - these are free, and I can watch them again if I want to. At £20 a pop, you guys are nuts, whole hazelnuts!!

None of that is anything I didn't already know, or even say - and that includes my own comments about 4K gaming on PS Pro which you've even quoted back to me! So the stance I've given a number of times still stands on the Pro and the S and I've yet to see otherwise.

And I don't believe I "knocked" Phil Spencer, either! :wink:

Look, the best thing anyone can do here, is make their preference clear and leave it at that. Otherwise, it spirals into (as seen here) a multitude of comments going back and forth.

Now, that said, here's (hopefully) the last post I'll make on the console subject. The PS4 will not be proper 4K for games, at least not the graphically challenging ones, i.e. most of them. That's just common sense, and it looks like you know that to be true, i.e. the "I don't pretend it can do every game at 4K. It can't." Anyway, here's an analysis from Digital Foundry - https://youtu.be/pUb63Dc7-Bw?t=293 - Bonus, here's a full rundown from last week - https://youtu.be/FGBlwdkHWFs

I don't know a great deal about Scorpio, but, I have been following Digital Foundry's analysis and comments since the reveal. This video is a basic sum-up with educated guesses at what was teased - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3moBYaEYc - p.s. release date is "Holiday 2017," which, more than likely, will be October/November 2017.

Btw, don't knock Phil Spencer till you've heard how he talks about Playstation. He's a really fair dude. Here's a great Giant Bomb interview from just after e3 - https://youtu.be/d7gWGDPFXqs

Let's just cut the fanboying for one particular side, out. Enjoy the fact that both these companies are pushing things forward! And with that, maybe we can get back to the 4K bluray deal.

I don't disagree with virtually anything you've said. I wasn't saying, and don't believe, that the PS4 Pro offers full 4K gaming because, as I've said above as well, it won't. But if you have a 4K TV and are a console gamer, it offers an unparalleled advantage over the existing PS4 and of course both existing versions of the Xbox, which the former was already superior to in processing performance anyway. That's not a fanboy statement, it's just fact.

So as I said - if gaming is more important, the Pro is the only choice. If it's 4K movies on disc, you have to get the S.

Yet again, you come to the table with no actual arguments, no ability to debate, and all you can make are ad hominem posts that waste your own time more than anyone else's.

Openly admitting you're a fanboy doesn't stop you being one.

It's the first 4K game. There will be others, and many others will be upscaled. It's the best 4k console gaming solution for at least a year. That's undeniable. Now, I don't pretend it can do every game at 4K. It can't. And it's also likely that the Scorpio, whenever and what it is, won't be able to either.

But nevertheless, onto the Xbox Scorpio then - you make it sound like a good proposition. Could you please tell me the price and release date?

I assume you know these basic details in order to make a purchasing recommendation to people, rather than having just accepted everything Phil Spencer said for ten minutes on stage, a few basic specs and a talking heads promotional video which was widely ridiculed.

:confused::laughing:

The person who said it is a well known fanboy himself.

Uhm... I'm pretty sure the PC has the whole lounge gaming and VR gaming sorted at this point - https://i.imgur.com/ISsOwbY.jpg - https://i.imgur.com/42SvRzB.jpg

P.s. you really hurt your argument when saying stuff like, "ignore anything Microsoft is selling." It reinforces that comment someone made about you being a fanboy.

Ooh, we nearly got back to UHD discs, but we're buying PS Pro's again,

And i quote:
"for people who aren't fussed about being anywhere near the best set-up for games get the S"

"you HAVE to get the PS Pro and ignore ANYTHING MS is selling"

You couldn't make this stuff up. This fella's on the payroll or something.

The game you linked to is not graphically demanding at all - it's irrelevant that it can run in 4k 60fps, as it still won't look good graphically, so I'm not sure what your point is.

The PS4 Pro is not going to be able to compete with existing PCs for graphics, and yet no existing graphics card is considered to be truly 4k ready, so the PS4 Pro certainly isn't. The GTX 1080 will run a lot of games at 4k 60fps, but there are many others that it can't. We're pretty close to getting a "true" 4k card, but not quite yet.

No offence but your post history and your posts here gives things away before anyone gets to your claims.

The big difference between me and you is that I don't have anything to hide so i'm fine with my avatar and post history unlike yourself I have No allegiance to one multi corporation over another, do you think that I should for some reason hide my avatar simply because I really like a certain game ?.

Anyway to your game link, a top down indie clone of Micro machines is NOT what people are expecting from 4k and I'm sure you know full well that Sony and Microsoft could put out EVERY game at 1080p and 60 fps if they only put out shovelware titles like the top down Micro machines clone you have linked to, in fact it seems like a pretty desperate attempt at making out the Pro can do Real 4k.

If you want the best option for gaming, in your lounge, including one that runs HD_VR, you have to get the Xbox Scorpio and ignore anything Sony is selling.

There's no debate possible about that.

No offence but your avatar gives things away before anyone gets to your claims.

Digital Foundry have already assessed the first 4K native game on PS4 Pro two minute months before the console's even out:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-hands-on-with-mantis-burn-racing-on-ps4-pro

There's no question that PC is the more powerful because you can continually spend and up the spec. However the debate here has always been about consoles, about what people have in their lounge, and the point remains as has been said all along:

For videophiles who can afford a 4K TV but not a professional home cinema setup and aren't fussed about being anywhere near the best setup for games for at least a year, get the S.

If you want the best option for gaming, in your lounge, including one that runs VR, you have to get the PS4 Pro and ignore anything Microsoft is selling.

There's no debate possible about that.

​Exactly. As we all know, the resolution of a film is far more important than the storyline, character, acting etc :wink:

Just as they said with Blu-ray vs DVD .

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/blu-ray-dvd-players/article/blu-ray-versus-dvd

Interesting article

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/ultra-hd-not-always-4k/

If you want an Ultra HD Blu-ray player and a games machine the Xbox One S is the only console option.

If you want to play REAL 4k games then your only option is PC as no console released until next year has anywhere near the specs to run real 4k games, so until Xbox Scorpio is released the Xbox One S has everything you need for both gaming and media.

It's absolutey fine to play games on a 4K TV too! The games won't be native 4K sure but they will look very decent, definitely a subtle improvement over the original Xbox One, though admitedly this will depend to an extent on the quality of the TVs upscaler vs the one in the console, for me the Xbox One S does it a bit better. Plus there is HDR for those with supporting TV's. Right now barring a high end PC (not a fair comparison due to the price difference) it's about the best option for 4K (gaming and movies). That may change in November with the PS4 Pro but it also may not as even that isn't going to have a native 4K in game resolution....

That's true.

If you want to play games in 4K on your TV, then it isn't.

Here is a list of 4K Blu-ray releases which use a genuine 4K source...

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798

Desk

So if you want true 4k movie experiance on a permanant basis- get a 4k TV - UHD Player or Xbox S and The Smurfs and restrict your viewing to the smurfs.

If you want an Ultra HD Blu-ray player and a games machine the Xbox One S is clearly the way to go.

Do you two even realise that you're making completely compatible arguments? Lack of UHD BR player in PS4 Pro was a surprise; Sony likely to focus on streaming services; Netflix userbase and appeal continues to grow; physical media continues to become less popular; Sony and other studios will most likely want a piece of the Netflix pie and try to tie consumers down to their own streaming services. Excellent points from both of you, well done :man:

Most Ultra HD Blu-rays are upscaled from 2k. Most releases have either been shot in 2k or shot in 5k but then used a 2k DI (i.e. the post-processing is done at 2k).

The Smurfs 2 is completely 4k native, so that was my first buy... I don't think my daughter appreciated the detail on screen as much as I did.

There are a few that have been shot on 35mm with a 4k DI (Amazing Spiderman 2, Salt, Hancock) - these have the potential to look more impressive than an upscaled 2k.

"Everyone" is surprised by this choice? That's an interesting assessment. I remember everyone being surprised when the Pro (then Neo) was revealed as well. So on your rational of that proving whether something is outright a good idea or not, let's see if no-one ends up buying the Pro console when it's out.

And I've provided one source that shows they made this choice because they weren't convinced the physical drive added enough value to justify including it. Can you provide one that shows they did it to save costs despite the fact that it's supposedly in massive demand?

Still arguing like you're in the playground - what's next, "my dad is bigger than your dad"? Can't you just argue on the facts please? We're debating the merits of each console on offer. That's all.


Instead, you're just adding false consensus bias into the mix as well.

And most people don't even have a decent Dolby digital 5.1 set up, let alone an ATMOS worthy set up.

First up, you're buying into their marketing by accepting what they say, i.e. their talk of going with streaming because it's the "trend" they see. They're playing it down (lack of a UHD drive) because, let's face it, everyone is surprised by this choice. A quick google search about the lack of a UHD drive shows this. So, two reasons for why they've done it is thus - 1. to save money on the hardware, which is what Sony always does with console revisions, even though, perhaps, this is a step further than normal. And second, they're more than likely going to find another source for their 4K income via their "Ultra" streaming service.

I've been watching Sony release multiple formats over the years to get their share and maybe they are trying something slightly different. Sadly, it's beginning to look similar to the way PC games are being sold, i.e. more publishers releasing games on their own storefront service, and not multiple game platforms.

The more I see reports about Netflix's library getting smaller, only makes me think that studios, like Sony are perhaps going to make a bigger push for their own store. And if it's true, speaking as a consumer first, I'd rather stick with physical which still allows for choice in where you buy, and what machine you watch them on. On the flipside, if this kind of streaming delivery becomes the norm, and price isn't low enough, it'll lead back to piracy. I guarantee it!

Anyway, back to the deal. This debate is starting to get in the way.


Name calling? Where?

You just keep telling yourself that.
The rest of us are enjoying watching you dance with your words.

It doesn't currently support bitstream audio which means it can't do Dolby Atmos or DTS X if you have an amp with those. It also doesn't accept 4K sources like Sky Q for one guide (Though without pass through without having the X Box on this seems like a pointless gimmick anyway).

I got the Xbox One S at launch primarily as a 4K Blu Ray player and have been very impressed. The Revenant looked far better than any 4K stream I have seen on Amazon or Netflix. I only put my order in after the PS4 Pro announcement, I would have loved to get a PS4 instead but couldn't believe no UHD Blu Ray drive, made my choice very easy.

More name calling.. and instead, by trying to just tell people about the various hardware you've got, I believe this is a variation of an appeal to authority fallacy.

We're only talking about hardware boxes and what each of them do here. You don't need to take your toys away.

I wasn't saying there's no difference between streaming and physical. That'd be fairly ridiculous, but in practicality, especially with all factors taken into account, the difference doesn't matter for anyone but the hardcore videophile, which isn't most people. Netflix and services like it are the future for most audiences.

And here's the source you asked for:

The Guardian - Interview with Andrew House

Pfft.
Literally not a clue about video formats, or compression. Knows PS4 does better grafix than Xbox.
I own a PS4, Xbox S, and separate UHD transport. No bias here. Just an understanding of the thread, and subject at hand.
Next

Well mainly because it was raised as a subject in the fourth comment in this thread, which wasn't by me.

So are you going to seem strangely personally aggrieved with the OP too? Or do you only say people are "banging on" when the comments run counter to people buying an Xbox S?

Unfortunately you decided to call me a fanboy instead of argue the point, which pretty much says who the fanboy really is here. The PS4 Pro doesn't have a 4K drive, as OP stated, but is a far superior gaming machine. The S is better as a budget 4K player if you absolutely have to have movies on a physical disc.

If you've anything to dispute that, then try bringing facts instead of silly name calling next time.

It sounds like your preference (for games and streaming at least) is elsewhere, but, you shouldn't make out like we aren't telling the truth about your streaming preference. Here's my source for streaming vs 4k bluray - http://www.whathifi.com/features/4k-streaming-vs-4k-blu-ray-vs-blu-ray-which-best

Also, why you're trying to say Sony isn't including a 4K bluray drive is due to a dying format, well, that's incredibly ill-informed. It also doesn't make sense. Btw, where's your source? Anyway, Sony have a stake in bluray, so, why wouldn't they want to push it? Mind you, there's a rumour that they're looking to sell 4K content through their storefront instead. If so, that's pretty cheeky.

Anyway, I don't own a pile of movies and am not a videophile. However, I do care about quality. That said, I won't buy in till it's cheap enough. And for Netflix at £10 a month for 4K streaming?! No chance. I don't care how convenient that seems. And I do love streaming convenience.

​If you think there's only a "small" difference between 4k blu-ray disc quality & compressed streaming format then 4k blu-ray is definitely not for you lol.

Why the hell are you banging on about best games console? What relevance to this thread does this offer?
Please, enjoy your Sony product, and allow others to enjoy the choices they have made.

So again, like I said, it's only worthwhile for the videophile who's on a tight budget.. which isn't going to be most people.

Meanwhile, if you want the best games console for, you know, playing games, the S compares pretty badly to the Pro (and even the PS4 slim) in absolutely everything except whether it's got a physical 4K BR capability or not.

Source please, not only because that sounds like baloney but also because that's not what Sony themselves have said. Of course, you may say they would say that, which is why sourcing where you've read that is important to give a reason otherwise. Streaming, primarily Netflix but also other services, is eating away at physical day by day which is why the 4K drive will be irrelevant to most people.

What a load of old blah. Sounds like a Sony fanboy

Firstly, if you are a videophile, in an ideal world of course you would buy a reference machine with the cleanest output. However, if you dont have budget for such a thing then the S has a more than decent output (just as the PS3 was a more than capable BR player) for a fantastic price. In addition you also have a multitude of audio output options as well as additional material.
Streams are compromised in both video and audio quality, and sometimes by more than "a little"
You keep telling yourself that Netflix has comparable bit-rates (let alone compression) as a full-fat 4K master UHD and uncompressed audio.

​Sony are releasing a 4k player next year which is why they didn't include 4k on the ps4, that's what I read a few days ago anyway. It's so they can sell both and make more money probably, except they won't because people will buy an xbox S.

If you say so, but it'll be hard to tell for the average consumer and academic anyway - physical is a dying format.. which will be exactly why Sony didn't include the 4K drive and make their latest console more expensive. If you're a videophile, the S won't be what you want anyway and if you want the most powerful console on the market, for over a year, for gaming then the Pro will still be what you'd want.

That drive might be great for the small crossover of people who want the least powerful console and will buy 4K movie discs but for anyone else, it's an inferior choice.

Heat... prices are falling pretty quickly on these, wont be that long before the 4K/UHD premium has dropped off and they are the same released price as regular blurays.

Small difference? Uhm, no.

I nearly got Labyrinth as my first 4k film to test it but decided against it as i wanted the true 4k look so ended up with deadpool
(Its also £19.99 delivered on amazon)

What does the Xbox S not support in terms of 4K films? bearing in mind most people using an Xbox S wont have £1000 audio systems... thanks

Except if you actually have a 4K TV and you're more into gaming than you are movies (which I definitely am) then you'll get much, much more out of your PS4 Pro than you would buying an Xbox One S, the latter being inferior to both the PS4 Pro and PS4 original/slim as well. So the only advantage left to the S is that it plays physical 4K movies. But it does nothing other than that.

Two hours watching a movie once that you've had to pay through the nose for, or a game you'll spent countless hours in and can still stream and watch 4K movie content (with only a small difference in quality compared to the disc version) anyway so you don't even miss out?

It's a no brainer for me.. PS4 Pro all the way, even with Microsoft's next Xbox coming out in another year or so.

Totally not available anywhere? :wink:

The good news is Microsoft's Head of product planning Alert Penello has recently confirmed those sound formats are not any hardware restriction in the Xbox One S and will be coming soon in a software update.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=212289369&postcount=907

4k discs are a complete swiz at the moment, a couple have already been mentioned but not one of the discs in the OP comes from an actual 4k (or above) master.

‘The Maze Runner’ – Shot mostly in 2k mixed with some 5k, with a 4k Digital intermediate
‘Life of Pi’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k Digital intermediate
‘X-Men: Days of Future Past’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k Digital intermediate

Regardless of price, you just don't do half a job

​Yes exactly, I bought mine for £239 which came with club card points and sold the 3 games which came with it.. forza horizon 3, overwatch and fifa 17 for about £90 so bought the xbox one s for around £150 so for £150 which has a 4k player and everything defiantly worth it, quite cheap

Now expired.

Does the X-men blu ray have hdr?

What's the going rate for 4K players these days? I haven't bitten yet as it's early days and we're still at the Hollywood blockbuster phase. But once we start getting vintage cinema on the format I'll be in for one.

​lol As in sooner rather than later.

Joke of a price cold

For me most films will I only watch once so buying is not ideal at the current prices , lovefilm need to get round to letting us rent the UHD discs via post .

Just like blurays these will eventually fall in price.

Film gave me terrible nightmares when I was a kid, never watched it since. Bought it on DVD as an adult, still haven't plucked up the courage to watch it again :wink:

Thanks a lot, I saw HMV have a Labyrinth 4K Steelbook. As long as the transfer represents the source material, that's the main thing.

Avatar 4k?? thats not out yet ???

Bear in mind that a fair few of these are mastered in 2K. Life of Pi and Mad Max for example aren't significantly better than the standard Blu-ray other than offering HDR and higher quality audio tracks (Which the Xbox One S and some cheaper 4K Blu-ray players don't support)

Thanks just bought a KS7000 Samsung today and got the xbox one S gears bundle arriving end of week so need some 4k blu-ray to try it out. heated

​No, but Life of Pi in 4K HDR is what you really want.

Avatar isn't available on 4K!

​lol...carp loving get friend that cracked me up :smile:

Life of Pi is possibly THE best example of what 4K is all about, it looks stunning

Life of Pi is actually perhaps one of the best examples of 3D, not 4K - it is stunning in 3d and I would go out of my way to watch 3D at 1080p over 4k any day.

The Martian is on pre order for tomorrow too for £19.99. That's my first 4K blue ray to test on my Xbox

Not just for x box one owners!
I have a Samsung 4k ultra hd player and have The Martian disc i got with player and Kingsman i got really cheap frpm Amazon a few months ago for £8.99 .Now that was a bargain which sadly didnt last long!

These are from discsforall and fulfilled by Amazon, heat added but bear in mind your not buying from Amazon but a third party

One S is carp no Atmos or DTSX, can't run another 4K source i. e. Sky Q through it either.

Didn't realise the Xbox One S had a 4k blu ray player, makes it that much more laughable that the PS4 Pro doesn't have it. Makes me want to cancel my ps4 pro preorder

Heated as every bit helps, but darn 4K blurays are expensive. I recently got an Xbox One S and would really like to try out the 4K bluray capability but even at these prices they aren't exactly giving them away. Just one of these nearly buys me two months of top tier Netflix with 4K streaming. I know the bluray will be better quality but it's way off the mark in terms of VFM sadly...