This link between vaccines and autism is one of the most vile and dangerous bits of BS I've ever seen. It makes me furious to read some of the comments here, as this scaremongering will cost lives and already has. Its basis, where it all started? A greedy man who wanted money!

Google debunked vaxxed, research MMR and autism and learn for yourself the truth. However, one brilliant article stands out for me, read this from a mother with an autistic child:

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/mmr-and-autism-our-story/

Deactivated flu virus but it's the dihydrogen oxide in it I'd be worried about.

Blimey, the conspiracy loons are out in force tonight.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except polio, and a whole load of other nasty viruses that science has all but eradicated.
I often have the flu jab. Getting flu will in no way "make you stronger". This whole idea that vaccinations somehow make your immune system "lazy" is simply illogical, and unproven from a scientific perspective. But do carry on believing that little Johnny developed autism, sometime after having an mmr jab, if it makes you happy.

This has very little to do with a 15% risk dropping to a 5% risk to you. Or the risk of mortality to yourself. Why does everyone always refer to themselves and not look at the bigger picture.

This is all to do with protecting the vulnerable in society. Ideally through herd immunity - however as we will not achieve the required 90% uptake, it will at least help to protect your own elderly/young/vulnerable relatives, by you having the flu jab. And if not your relatives, the ones in the supermarket that you walk past.

Anyway, if you need to look at it from a point of view only concerning yourself, it may result in you not getting the flu.
Or, in the bigger picture, it may just save a life (Yes - you save a life by paying £7 for a flu jab).

thank you for posting

Thats early

Does anyone know whats in these? I certainly wouldn't take them. :confused:

I'm more worried about the Zombie Apocalypse, can you imagine a world where people are more interested in computer games than what is being injected into them or their children.

Terrifying :confused:

Along with flouride many vaccinations are great for dumbing down the masses so they keep voting liblabcon........

I suppose the only way to stop it is to get rid of the kids !!

Good price - better than the "subsidised" price of 12 pounds at my employer.

Oh forgive me op

Hot Deal:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI

As always, it is a simple numbers game. Without it, you have around a 15% change of getting the flu, with the jab, it goes down to 5%. Side effects are less clear, but are usually considered either rare or negligible (like being 7 quid less rich). This is a free country, it is your choice.

Had my last 2 flu jabs at Asda & still alive :smile:

Thought it was £9 last year :confused:

Heat added :smiley:

You didn't understand the logic of the question.

What are the chances of mortality from influenza virus? I suspect very very low, more chance of getting killed crossing the road I suspect. What's the risk of infection from taking the jab? Is there any potential negative impact on my immune system from having the jab? How many people have you heard of who have died from the influenza virus?

Been mugged

Sweat it out!

This has very little to do with a 15% risk dropping to a 5% risk to you. Or the risk of mortality to yourself. Why does everyone always refer to themselves and not look at the bigger picture.

This is all to do with protecting the vulnerable in society. Ideally through herd immunity - however as we will not achieve the required 90% uptake, it will at least help to protect your own elderly/young/vulnerable relatives, by you having the flu jab. And if not your relatives, the ones in the supermarket that you walk past.

Anyway, if you need to look at it from a point of view only concerning yourself, it may result in you not getting the flu.
Or, in the bigger picture, it may just save a life (Yes - you save a life by paying £7 for a flu jab).

Just look on the high street .. .all those heads down not looking where they are going looking at the small shiny displays.... zombie apocalypse is here .. just a bit different from expected lol

I read the other day that someone tested most of the vaccines and found GLYPHOSATE in nearly all of them.

You'd need to be mental to have this BS!!!

VAXED DOCUMENTARY

Interviews with pharmaceutical insiders, doctors, politicians, and parents of vaccine-injured children reveal an alarming deception that has contributed to the skyrocketing increase of autism and potentially the most catastrophic epidemic of our lifetime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIMEV6ButQw

Whenever I get close to someone with a cold or flu I gargle with whiskey ASAP. 2 teaspoons in a glass. Don't swallow. Repeat if you feel any flu like symptoms. Alcohol kills 99% of germs - dead !

Jab mercury directly into your bloodstream

I know, some of you will say 'there is more mercury in a tuna sandwitch'...
Well, you are not directly injecting tuna into your blood stream...Thimerosol, a mercury based preservative is mercury in organometallic form which can easily cross the blood/brain barrier.

If the jab is so wonderful, then you have nothing to worry about if I decline your 'helpful' advice.
Unfortunately, it is a worse than useless witches brew that exists to make money for Big Mad Pharma.

See my link to "Vaxed" above.

I think the flu is about as dangerous as the "bogey man".

Did you look under your bed? Did you see the Bogey Man? No, you see how the shot has protected you.

Baaaaaabaaaabaaaaa

http://www.runheiferrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/baaahahahahah.jpg

Blimey, the conspiracy loons are out in force tonight.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except polio, and a whole load of other nasty viruses that science has all but eradicated.
I often have the flu jab. Getting flu will in no way "make you stronger". This whole idea that vaccinations somehow make your immune system "lazy" is simply illogical, and unproven from a scientific perspective. But do carry on believing that little Johnny developed autism, sometime after having an mmr jab, if it makes you happy.

I can tell you don't have a lot of medical experience.

Flu might not be a problem directly to the average healthy person but still not a nice illness. The complications caused by flu such as pneumonia are a real concern especially for the vulnerable such as children or those with weakened immune systems. I can't imagine why anyone would prefer to increase the risk of passing their flu on to their children.

I will watch that documentary you linked to tomorrow and I'm sorry for your loss.

What I will say is that where infections are concerned, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. A strong immune system can deal with almost any infection you can throw at it without drugs and jabs. Young, old and vulnerable people may need medical care but the rest of us have the strength and ability to create enough antibodies ourselves that not only do the job of killing the infection but make our immune system stronger in the process.

Taking a jab potentially puts you at more risk

So, the end of the war...What would conditions have been like at the end of the war, food was scarce, people were weak.
Man this post is full of vax shills.

I think today's conditions are very different and little chance of pandemic influenza.

Which vaccines is thiomersal still used in? Why is the incidence of autism still rising? At what dosage of thimerosol is used in a vaccine? (hint, it's pretty tiny) Is there any evidence of harm from this dose?

Do you know the difference between methylmercury and ethylmercury? Methyl- is the stuff found in tuna and bioaccumulates and thus is a reason not to have 5 cans of tuna everyday. Ethyl-, the stuff thimerosal is made of, doesn't.






Whistleblowers lol.

Polio prevalence declined with better hygiene and nutrition? Then measles prevalence decreased significantly shortly after the introduction of the vaccine. Gosh we must have improved our hygiene and nutrition even further. And the same things happened with TB, meningitis etc. Our nutrition and hygiene keeps getting better and better! Face it, vaccines work, hygeine of course helped but you are suggesting that vaccines are useless.

Correlation is not causation. The autism link has been tested and debunked repeatedly. I think we know the real cause of autism.

This link between vaccines and autism is one of the most vile and dangerous bits of BS I've ever seen. It makes me furious to read some of the comments here, as this scaremongering will cost lives and already has. Its basis, where it all started? A greedy man who wanted money!

Google debunked vaxxed, research MMR and autism and learn for yourself the truth. However, one brilliant article stands out for me, read this from a mother with an autistic child:

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/mmr-and-autism-our-story/

Ah the shill gambit, usually an subtle admittance that you can't discuss things properly. A pertussis vaccine costs pounds. The cost to treat the disease with a course of strong antibiotics plus any related medical expenses arising as a result of the complications such as hospitalisation, pneumonia etc will result in far greater profits. Perhaps you are a big pharma shill?

Who? How? Sample size, methods etc? What levels were found? What does this mean?

Vaccines are produced to pretty high standards, contamination with a herbicide seems random and almost ludicrous.

Please explain.

Fantastic! :smiley:

Fantastic! :smiley:

I agree there's little chance of a flu pandemic today, mostly because a sizable part of the population have had the jab! I do know of people dying of flu, a work colleague's sister, she was 40, it was Christmas day. I also know fit twenty somethings who have been hospitalised through it. I don't know of anyone dying from a flu jab though, apart from maybe my grandad, who had a flu shot every year. Then one year in his 80s, he died. Cause / effect? It was a while ago now but I don't think his death certificate mentioned "flu jab" anywhere.

I think he means greater risk of catching flu? That would make about as much sense as anything else I've seen from the conspiracy loons on this thread.

You are the reason why herd immunity is not achievable and preventable diseases are making their way back into the population. You're doing far worse for mankind than you think.

I had these "jabs" twice and each time died of the bubonic plague complicated by wobbly basket.

I'd rather get it from my local gp surgery or pharmacy and support them than large private companies like boots/tesco/asda. This is just contributing to the privatisation of the nhs by diverting income away from it.

I agree with the medical side: herd immunity would be the best option. But if society truly wanted this, society would pay for it. Unfortunately, the NHS only pays for vulnerable individuals, not for everyone, which means that their goal is not herd immunity. There are not even enough vaccine doses around to provide herd immunity. So while I may not agree, I have to respect the decision of the NHS not to pursue herd immunity. Their decision would make a big difference, mine doesn't.

​Yeah nice one. A sheep. I see what you did there.

But the truth of it is, people like you are making children sick, causing them wide spread diseases and even death. Scaremongering about vaccines is not a joking matter. Many vaccines rely on herd Immunity and it is totally irresponsible to deny children the MMR because some discredited Dr in America made wild, unproven claims.

Please please please take some real time out to actual learn a little bit more about what you're talking about. If not for me, then for everyone's children.

It's also the way the anti-vax people refer to autism as some kind of terrible illness that must be feared.

Severe cases of autism can be very debilitating, but autism generally is actually quite common and believe it or not quite normal to have lots of autistic people in society but these people speak of it as something which must be eradicated.

It's rather ironic really given how deadly flu can be and how vaccination eradicated one of the worst diseases known to humankind.

Moreover, being vaccinated doesn't just protect you, it protects the unfortunate immuno-compromised people, so in some ways anti-vaxers are also quite selfish because the immuno-compromised run the very real risk of suffering terribly and maybe even being killed if they get infected.

Who needs doctors when you have neighbours huh..

Some scientific and medical opinion does differ....Take this paper on mercury in organic and inorganic form:
"The researchers emphasize, however, that the risks associated with low-level exposures to inorganic mercury in the developing brain are unknown, and they describe other research linking persistent inorganic mercury exposure with increased activation of microglia in the brain, an effect recently reported in children with autism. They recommend further research focused specifically on the biotransformation of thimerosal and its neurotoxic potential".

But that's fine, we have your reassurances, so can I see your publications of your work backing up your opinions. The health of children are stake.

Yeah, but she is obviously a "conspiracy loon" as defined by your buddy.

Yeah, the sheep was a cheapshot, just like your own early comment.
"Scarmongering", I do not think so, there is plenty of evidence to doubt both the safety and efficacy of probably most of the vaccines. Most of these people who speak out are not motivated by money, the only axe they have to grind is concern. I suppose when the sale of the jab puts food on your table then you probably would be a little defensive of them.

You cannot even think up your own derogatory nonsense. Copy 'n' paste, so cheap and unoriginal...maybe that is how you got qualified.

But if you've got the vax, why be worried????

These are available at your local pharmacy too. Support them as otherwise they'll all be shutting soon with the new government cuts and the supermarkets will get yet another monopoly in each area (or oligopoly country wide)

Ever wonder why nowadays it's standard to give the nasal flu vaccine to primary school children?? I don't remember anybody EVER getting this when I was a kid and I never heard of anybody dying from the flu. The reason it's being rolled out left, right and centre nowadays is down to profit for the pharma giants. The government don't give a flying fig about your or your children's health, we are nothing more than cattle to them. Obviously I refuse the vaccine for my son, I am not a sheep.

And, how many papers have you published to back up your assertions?
Here's one (you did not publish)....

Thimerosal and Animal Brains: New Data for Assessing Human Ethylmercury Risk

"...The researchers emphasize, however, that the risks associated with low-level exposures to inorganic mercury in the developing brain are unknown, and they describe other research linking persistent inorganic mercury exposure with increased activation of microglia in the brain, an effect recently reported in children with autism. They recommend further research focused specifically on the biotransformation of thimerosal and its neurotoxic potential..."

I had the MMR jab and all vaccinations growing up, not autistic in the slightest but fairly happy I have never had mumps! Or measles... Or meningitis etc

Debunked by 'whom', Big Pharma, we know how they work...Labs sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry touting themselves as independent.
Oh and sometimes causation does equal correlation or are you saying that one should have expected a link between a bowl of cereal and autism which has been denied?

​You really undermine any coherent argument when you use words like "probably" and "axe to grind" The health of billions isn't based on "probably" and arm chair scientists.

Then I think you're implying that I somehow profit from the sale of vaccines. This is a very odd and confusing comment. Could you please explain this please because you don't know me or anything about me. Very odd.

​And comments like this really show you have no idea how Herd Immunity works. Please just do a little credible research and explore the topic you claim to know so much about.

:smile:

No, I do not think so, I have posted hard facts.
And we are to believe that I am the sole purveyor of insult and cheap shot comment, Really? When phrases and words like "conspiracy loon" are used to insult and disrespect peoples opinions.

The same could be said about you, we only have you blowing hard about 'how much you know' and anyone disagreeing with you is up for insult.
I on the other hand have posted hard fact backed up with published papers.
You better try harder, you do not seem very credible.

​I didn't say that, did I? Try and keep up.

Ok, you haven't answered anything I asked. I'll try one at a time. Why did you suggest I personally would profit from Vaccines?

So, Doctors, nurses etc do not get paid for pumping this cooked up witches brew into peoples arms. You seem to suggest some profession connection.
I have answered what I've answered, I'm not here for your elicitation, it is not as if you haven't returned fair comment with sophomore.

Aye, but you did issue other just as disrespectful and insulting comment. And, please note, you were first to do so.
So, do not act all innocent.

I had proper flu once, not just a bad cold like many think the flu is. It is real hell on wheels and I would most certainly never want to experience it again. I can see how it could be dangerous to people who are a bit vulnerable.

If you got the flu shot last year, they even admitted you were wasting your time:

"CDC Admits Last Year’s Flu Shot Was One Of The Most Ineffective Vaccines To Date

...Flu shots have proven to be less and less effective in the wake of the past few flu seasons. In a stunning feat of acknowledgment, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently admitted that the 2014–15 flu vaccine was no better, setting record lows for effectiveness.

The organization has admitted that the 2014–2015 flu shot reduced the risk of getting the flu by a mere 23 percent. Meanwhile, the mainstream media has continued to cast anyone who dare question the efficacy of vaccines to the lunatic fringe.(1)....

...This year’s vaccine no better than last year’s....

http://www.vaccines.news/2016-01-20-cdc-admits-last-years-flu-shot-was-one-of-the-most-ineffective-vaccines-to-date.html

Get a refund...All that money wasted that could've saved lifes, all that rubbish injected into folks veins....

So Scottswoowoo, did you vote hot or cold then??

How can you be so selective? From what I've read from you so far, when the CDC or another respected scientific body states a vaccine is effective and safe, you don't believe them, it's lies. When they say a vaccine is not proving effective, as in the recent flu jabs, you use their statements as fact and to back your argument. Come on. If they are willing to cover up and deny a massive increase in autism due to vaccines, I don't think they would have any issue hiding a decreased effectiveness in the flu jab.

If I assume for a second that you genuinely believe that all vaccines (I'm assuming it's all of them?) are dangerous and are totally ineffective, then I suppose I can understand you. However, everything I read regarding vaccines, all the evidence I can find at least, tells me that vaccines are proven effective and without them we would be in a very different and less fortunate place. I want to know if something is dangerous and\or ineffective, or course I do, but nothing you've said stands up to interrogation. The documentary you advertised has been completely debunked by multiple sources, nothing it says stands up either. Assuming I'm a rational human, assuming I'm a reasonably intelligent person, tell me...why are you right when everything tells me otherwise?

Being 'smart' with rhetoric and spin will not win anyone over, least of all me.
We know that the flu shot is useless and last year the CDC told the truth for once, that's all.
You do not "think they would hide a decrease in effectiveness", so you are quite clearly WRONG.
As for the link to autism: There already HAS been two such whistle blowers from the CDC who recanted denying the link, they discovered they had a conscience after all.

"(E)verything tells me otherwise" only because that is what you choose to believe and listen to.

You "assume" you do a lot of 'assuming', while I am posting links to facts and scientific papers.

What did you vote hot for? The tin of rice pudding?

I certainly don't have anything to worry about if you decline my helpful and informed advice. I do, however, have concern for the vulnerable members in society that could be affected by your actions of not having a flu vaccine.

I appreciate people have genuine concerns about vaccines, but there's "evidence" (and I use the " " very importantly) to say 9/11 was planned by the American government and to say the NASA moon landings were fake. And lots of people write about those 2 latter issues and they are also misinformed / misguided. Similarly there were countless people that believed the Earth was flat and we would fall off the end of it if we went too far - and that the Earth is at the centre of the solar system and that the Sun orbits the Earth.

We are slowly dismissing these myths but they take time - and some of these myths meanwhile cost lives. In particular the MMR / Autism link which is so farcical it's almost laughable - except for the damage already done :disappointed:

As to the person who mentioned the NHS should fund the flu vaccine for all if it wants to achieve herd immunity - it certainly would if it had an infinite amount of money. Unfortunately hospitals are already in record deficits.

​You're going round in circles. You suggested I benefited from the admission of Vaccines, you said it paid for the food on my table. You suggested I had a connection. I was simply asking why you suggested that. So, why did you suggest I benefited from them?

Regarding 9/11,I'm a little misinformed / misguided I would love for you to share vast knowledge on why BUILDING 7 collapsed into it's own footprint. And explain the NIST report on the collapse.

That is a lot of Strawmen that you managed to fit in your comment, were you going for a world record...?

Unfortunately though, you are poorly informed, the CDC have already admitted that the flu vaccine is virtually useless...

"CDC Admits Last Year’s Flu Shot Was One Of The Most Ineffective Vaccines To Date

Flu shots have proven to be less and less effective in the wake of the past few flu seasons. In a stunning feat of acknowledgment, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently admitted that the 2014–15 flu vaccine was no better, setting record lows for effectiveness

The organization has admitted that the 2014–2015 flu shot reduced the risk of getting the flu by a mere 23 percent. Meanwhile, the mainstream media has continued to cast anyone who dare question the efficacy of vaccines to the lunatic fringe".

Vaccine news

and in the ToryGraph...

Flu jab given to millions is 'useless'

The flu vaccine given to millions of people in the UK barely works, health officials have admitted, amid warnings that the number of deaths this winter will be the worst for 15 years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11393560/Flu-jab-given-to-millions-is-useless.html


So, seems that you are wrong. All that money wasted. What about all that 'herd protection', eh? All nonsense.
What was it you were saying before? That a virus mutating was just a 'conspiracy theory'.....

You have my answer read it again,be my guest.

Good price

There's a Monty Python sketch where a man walks into an office where he can actually pay someone to argue with him, that's obscure python humour for you. Perhaps you've seen this sketch, but in case you haven't.... So he walks in and pays the man sat at a desk for the argument, he hands over his money and then waits. No argument arrives, the man just sits at his desk. So, the man who had paid for his argument asks him "Where is my argument?", the man at the desk replies "You haven't paid me!", to which he replies "Yes, I have!" and he responds "No you haven't". And so on.... That's not verbatim, but was the jist of sketch, classic python.

Btw, heat from me.

My apologies, I was referring to the intelligent members of HDUK,who may may be concerned about the chemical cocktail that they were injecting. It was not meant as a slur to the intellectually compromised.

Flu vaccines are made up of 3 or 4 or viruses that each will be effective against a particular strain of flu. They're chosen based on the reported spread and dander of those strains of flu. So them failing is just like when the weather forecast gets it wrong - it's a thing that happens. Everyone gets angry and remembers it when their picnic gets **** on or their wedding day has a flood, but not the other way around. So let's get rid of weather forecasts - they're evil.

Good analogy...expect taking precautions against unexpected rain does not require one to inject a witches brew of mercury, squaline and goodness what into your veins. There are no reported harmful side effects from carrying an umbrella.

I have a son with severe autism so I have taken a keen interest in the MMR discussion.

It's all B/S. There was an extensive Japanese study - 40,000 participants - which is huge, from a statistical point of view - and it was comprehensively proven that there is zero connection between MMR jabs and autism.

Parents with autistic kids naturally get very worried and can make irrational decisions or form irrational opinions - they wonder/ worry if they somehow contributed to the autism.

I remember when 'chelation' was the vogue thing with autism - it means forcing the body to give up heavy metals such as mercury etc. One obviously otherwise intelligent doctor couple from the UK did it to their autistic son (in the USA) and simply killed him by chelation. He died because essential minerals got chelated out of his body.

Autism is just a different development of the brain in very young children. We don't know the causes but it's certainly not flu/ MMR jabs.

​Ha ha, you haven't answered anything. I pity you. But it's a shame your ignorance and bullishness may cost children their lives. One last question.... How on earth do you sleep at night?

How can you be so sure that the vaccines are blameless? We have only recently discovered that supposedly independent studies have been owned by Big Pharma in one way or another eg scientists/doctors being on the payroll of some Pharmaceutical company or other.
Have you seen the internet lately, namely that two prominent CDC doctors have admitted that they should never have signed off the vaccines due to the autism link?
This is the latest:

"Obama Grants Immunity to CDC Whistleblower on Measles Vaccine Link to Autism"

Patrick Howley of The Daily Caller has reported that the Obama administration has granted whistleblower immunity to Dr. William Thompson, a senior epidemiologist at the CDC who co-authored and published research on the MMR vaccine for the CDC back in 2004. His decision to become a whistleblower and reveal data that was concealed by the CDC linking the MMR vaccine to autism among African American boys was revealed during the summer of 2014.

https://healthimpactnews.com/2015/obama-grants-immunity-to-cdc-whistleblower-on-measles-vaccine-link-to-autism/

I hope this helps...

By the way, would chelation not be something that was given after the symptoms presented themselves ie the damage had already been done???

of course chelation is after the diagnosis

How do YOU sleep at night?
Well sometimes I hear an adult autism sufferer screaming his head off at his mother. He his very strong and my neighbour is frequently badly bruised. Her husband left, a few years ago, he couldn't handle it. She begs me not to say anything or interfere.
This is because of people like you Jim.

Wait a second...
You actually do think MMR vaccine is related to Autism?
I was just mentioning it as an example of a ludicrous proposal. I didn't actually think you believed it!?! What a joke. The original paper was withdrawn from publication due to fraud by deception and countless studies have not replicated anything similar in the decades since. Yet you want to believe that "scientist" whilst everyone else is owned by big pharma?

​No. No it is not.

I think asda colleagues and their nominated family members get flu jab for £5. not bad...

Nope, but I believe the gentleman you mentioned was cleared...

But see my post above regarding the CDC whistleblowers, it is a bit more up to date as it is unfolding right now.

Here is a section from the link:

"Patrick Howley of The Daily Caller has reported that the Obama administration has granted whistleblower immunity to Dr. William Thompson, a senior epidemiologist at the CDC who co-authored and published research on the MMR vaccine for the CDC back in 2004. His decision to become a whistleblower and reveal data that was concealed by the CDC linking the MMR vaccine to autism among African American boys was revealed during the summer of 2014".

He lost his position as a Doctor and struck off for deception. He was never cleared.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

In January 2012 Wakefield filed a defamation lawsuit in Texas state court against Deer, Fiona Godlee, and the BMJ for false accusations of fraud, seeking a jury trial in Travis County. The filing identified Wakefield as a resident of Austin, and cited the "Texas Long-Arm Statute" as justification for initiating the proceeding in Texas. The journal responded that it stood by its reports and would "defend the claim vigorously".In August 2012 District Court Judge Amy Meachum dismissed Wakefield's suit.Her ruling was upheld on appeal in September 2014 and Wakefield was ordered to pay all parties' costs.

In February 2015, he publicly repeated his denials and refused to back down from his assertions,even though—as stated by a British Administrative Court Justice in a related decision—"There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports (Dr Wakefield's) hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked".

Well, they may have quoted work done by the CDC and the two whistle blowers so watch this space as they say.
Not much to say about the CDC whistleblowers, waiting for the whitewash or the assasinations, that's sensible, stay stum.

The problem is - anybody can write a news article or blog these days with any story that they want. There could literally be thousands of reasons why certain data was withheld. We have one side of the story. Perhaps they saw the methodology was flawed. There could be another thousand reasons.

What we can all do however, is look at peer reviewed journal articles preferably from Randomised Controlled Trials (RCTs) that allow doctors and others to see the methodology, the raw results, an evaluation and conclusion. There have been so many RCTs - with no conflict of interest - because you have to declare your conflict of interest in journals - that have shown Andrew Wakefield to be simply wrong.

Let's get cracking with some RCT paper reading? They are peer reviewed - with no conflicts of interest - or, if there are conflicts of interest, they are announced in the papers.

If you are saying we cannot trust RCTs, our conversation is over :smiley:

Oh, sure, perfectly innocuous,a simply innocent...slip, of course that's why Obama's granting immunity from prosecution.

You tell me what to read, I'll tell you what to read.

Ok thanks

But I WAS intending it as a comment on the ignorant and closed-minded.

But surely it's a government conspiracy anyway? :confused:
If the employee signed a confidentiality agreement, of course he is open to prosecution if he breaches this. Good for Obama allowing somebody to speak - so they can be shown to be completely wrong - rather than "Oh it must be a cover up as he is threatened with prosecution!".

See - if he didn't grant immunity, then that would be a cover-up.

You're not going to read RCTs? /End of our conversation. You seem to want to be educated in vaccines yet don't want to read the evidence base. Perhaps as you won't like what you see.

Man, you vaccine pushers are prolific with the strawmen, it was laughable, but now it is getting a little boring and predictable.

"...of course he is open to prosecution if he breaches this" but a only a moment ago, you were suggesting that it was only an innocent mistake, eg using the disabled parking space...(my own straw man, like it?)

Like I said, I'll tell you what to read first, you need the education more than me. As for ending the convo, well, I'll just have to live without your sparkling wit.

I read RCTs every week. They come with the BMJ. I have seen what great things vaccines have done for us - and how we don't have any cases of Smallpox, and how we deal with far less Measles, Mumps and Rubella patients than in the past.

As with any confidentiality agreement, you cannot breach it without risk of prosecution. This gentleman believes there has been a cover-up and wants to whistleblow. Far far more likely, we have an individual that - for a thousand reasons - has interpreted data wrongly and come to the wrong conclusion. He clearly feels the need to speak out - and Obama has allowed him to break his confidentiality agreement so that the scientific community can examine his claims and prove they are without truth.

Just because something is an innocent mistake doesn't mean someone else wont interpret it as a cover-up.

Please let your children have their 8/12/16 week vaccinations. That truly is my final word on the subject as we are spamming this thread inappropriately, but it is so important to show others that they have nothing to fear from vaccines.

As for the Whistleblowers, it does NOT seem to be as innocent as you would like it to be, they will testify before Congress.
No comment about my other post, like the CDC admitting that the flu vaccine is virtually useless, go on apply your 24 karrat spin to that one.
Many illness disappeared because of better hygene, nutrition...

Not true, the hygiene where I work is so bad I'm surprised we've not been done in by the Andromeda strain. Seriously, people going for a dump and not washing their hands. Who does that??

While i was waiting for a takeaway curry, I went for a jimmy and I noticed a dusky gentleman dressed as a waiter coming out of a stall and not washing his hands. Needless to say, I never went back. People blame the spices for loose bowels, maybe this is the reason.

You'd prefer your son to have a higher risk of catching the flu and increasing the risk of exposure of the vulnerable simply to satisfy your conspiracy theories? Most adults hate getting flu and feeling absolutely shocking for several days, why wouldn't you want to decrease the chances of that happening to your child? The vaccine is offered to those with increased risk or a select few areas as part of a test program, you are privileged to be offered it.

My mate's dad died from flu, pretty healthy guy, even took part in the London marathon a few years before. For the most part, flu just knocks people out for a few days, others take a week, others develop pneumonia etc. Just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've never heard of anyone dying from meningitis or measles but I'll still get the vaccine because the risk of outbreaks increase otherwise.

You never heard of the nasal spray vaccine as a kid because it wasn't developed back then. The nasal spray has been found to be more effective.

There is no proof of the Obama administration ever doing that. You are probably quoting a website with no references. Plus I thought the government was owned by big pharma, they could easily silence them.

The "whistleblower" saga has been explained several times, this article walks you through the whole thing.

My son and I both got the flu at the start of the year, we were ill for a few days, he had a week off school and he went back fit as a fiddle. I just refused to sign the consent form for this year's flu vaccine for him again, children can get brain damage from the nasal flu vac, I'd rather have a few days being ill thank you!!

A quote from the actual study:

"“The results indicate that methylmercury is not a suitable reference for risk assessment from exposure to thimerosal-derived Hg.”

Also, only half of the experiment was done. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this but this is a poor study and poor quality evidence which means nothing significant can be concluded from it. suggest you properly read the evidence you are pointed to as "proof" next time instead of, ironically, blindly accepting it.


You don't seem to understand how the flu vaccine is made and you using the flu vaccine as a straw man to refute all vaccines. Flu vaccines aren't always as effective as we'd like but that doesn't mean all vaccines are useless. No vaccine is 100% effective nor 100% safe, nothing is. Bridges aren't 100% safe, it doesn't mean we shouldn't cross them.

It seems to me, I'm probably wrong though, that you think that:

Vaccines are useless and have no benefit to public health. [citation required]
Herd immunity isn't real. [citation required]
Vaccines cause autism. [citation required]
Big Pharma has bribed almost every immunologist, government and health organisation worldwide to think vaccines work.

Consider Big Oil. It produces far more profits than big pharma yet it cannot buy all the scientists and governments to deny climate change. This seems very odd to me.

You might be concerned about ingredients and sceptical of big pharma etc but to deny vaccines work and have not had a profound benefit to humanity is just anti-science.

A quote from the actual study:

"“The results indicate that methylmercury is not a suitable reference for risk assessment from exposure to thimerosal-derived Hg.”

Also, only half of the experiment was done. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this but this is a poor study and poor quality evidence which means nothing significant can be concluded from it. suggest you properly read the evidence you are pointed to as "proof" next time instead of, ironically, blindly accepting it.


You don't seem to understand how the flu vaccine is made and you using the flu vaccine as a straw man to refute all vaccines. Flu vaccines aren't always as effective as we'd like but that doesn't mean all vaccines are useless. No vaccine is 100% effective nor 100% safe, nothing is. Bridges aren't 100% safe, it doesn't mean we shouldn't cross them.

It seems to me, I'm probably wrong though, that you think that:

Vaccines are useless and have no benefit to public health. [citation required]
Herd immunity isn't real. [citation required]
Vaccines cause autism. [citation required]
Big Pharma has bribed almost every immunologist, government and health organisation worldwide to think vaccines work.

Consider Big Oil. It produces far more profits than big pharma yet it cannot buy all the scientists and governments to deny climate change. This seems very odd to me.

You might be concerned about ingredients and sceptical of big pharma etc but to deny vaccines work and have not had a profound benefit to humanity is just anti-science.

It's great to hear you both bounced back fine again but others are not always so fortunate each time.
.
Brain damage? Please consider there is a lot of scaremongering done by the media and on the internet. This article covers a lot of myths about flu vaccines, #10-14 are the most relevant. I doubt the NHS would be recommending a vaccine that has a chance of causing brain damage.

Don't get me wrong, there is a small risk of side effects as with any medication . However the risk of catching the disease and getting any complications from it are far greater than the risk of problems caused by the vaccine. Serious vaccine side effects are very very rare. I'd wager that even all the rare complications of flu such as febrile seizures, meningitis and encephalitis are far far more common by comparison. The flu vaccine is a tough one to argue for because as you say most people recover quite well, yourself included, I just wanted to raise awareness of risk vs benefit of the vaccine compared to the risks of flu. :smiley:

I had this last year, felt a little ****, nothing more at the time, but recently I do talk a right lot of ****, now wondering if it caused some form of brain damage as suggested?

Seems that you have a little bit of damage, there is however ppe to wear for certain people when getting the jab or any other vaccine for that matter, it's called a tin foil hat. :smirk:

So, what you are saying it is a "good thing" to put mercury into your body, a neurotoxin, who's effects on the developing brain are unknown. No. You cannot say it is safe. The vaccine manufacturers cannot even say that....

As for the efficacy or should I say unefficacy of the flu jab, the punter is not sold it on a "cost versus risk" basis, or do you think that most of the people would bother if they knew that it was only claimed to be 23 percent effective? Referring to your "bridge" analogy, would a punter cross a bridge if they knew that 76% of the time, the bridge would collapse????

I quote some information from a pharamaceutical dose...

FLULAVAL is a vaccine indicated for active immunization against influenza disease… but doesn’t state if the vaccine works.

… there have been no controlled trials adequately demonstrating a decrease in influenza disease after vaccination with FLULAVAL.

Safety and effectiveness of FLULAVAL in pediatric patients have not been established.

The same insert also reads, FLULAVAL has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility.

Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative. Each … dose contains 50 mcg thimerosal. Each dose may also contain residual amounts of ovalbumin, formaldehyde, and sodium deoxycholate from the manufacturing process.


I did not say "every" scientist is corrupt, but consider the CDC whistleblowers will likely go before Congress to testify on cover-ups of evidence linking vaccine to autism. CDC is THE government agency in America certifying the safety of such things. Their evidence has already been heard there. So much for what you say.

"CDC Whistleblower Told Congress of Coverup on Vaccines Causing Autism...."(google as site will not post link)

"Congressman Posey of Florida reported to congress that he had received evidence from Dr. Thompson of the Center for Disease Control. This information gave details about the destruction of documents which show that vaccination causes autism."

Did you know that 3 billion dollars US is paid out by the American government annually to children damaged by vaccines??

As for your other comments on "Big Oil", did you know that it is heavily invested in "Big Green".

You vaccine pushers are desperate to keep causing autism, how much is it worth to destroy childrens' brains, how do sleep at night.

Do you deny that mercury is a neurotoxin and it's effects on the developing brain are unknown.
Would a punter bother getting the jab if they knew it was only 23% effective, no. To use your wee analogy, would you cross a bridge if you knew that there was nearly an 80% chance it would collapse. But, you vaccine pushers do not sell it on a cost versus risk basis.

Congress HAS ALREADY heard the CDC Whistleblowers evidence, so much for what you say....

"CDC Whistleblower Told Congress of Coverup on Vaccines Causing Autism" (google, site does not allow this link)

Congressman Posey of Florida reported to congress that he had received evidence from Dr. Thompson of the Center for Disease Control. This information gave details about the destruction of documents which show that vaccination causes autism.


For anyone who does not know, the CDC is The US Centre for Disease Control, everything they say goes!

FYI The US Government has paid now an sum approaching $12 Billion dollars to parents who's children are damaged by vaccines.

As for Big Oil, well, Big Oil has plenty invested in Big Green.

Read about herd immunity.

​I've already told scottswaha to do that. They haven't.

Mercury is a neurotoxin and the effects are known, I have never suggested otherwise. I am saying the benefits a vaccine outweigh the risk of putting a tiny dose of mercury in your body. The problem is you are lumping all forms of mercury together as a definite neurotoxin and ignoring basic chemistry and toxicology. The dose makes the poison. Chlorine is undeniably a dangerous toxin so by your logic we need to avoid all salt yet we need it to live. Formaldehyde is a Class 1 carcinogen used to preserve bodies yet it occurs naturally in pears and is produced by your body as part of your normal metabolism in greater quantities than you could eat. Ethylmercury is not the same as elemental mercury or the mercury found in tuna. Sodium chloride/table salt is not the same as chlorine. Mercury is bad in high doses, almost homeopathic doses of a mercury compound easily excreted is very unlikely to be a problem. Given that millions of doses of vaccines are given each year, autism should be far more highly prevalent. Not sure why we are talking about mercury and autism in children when the NHS children's flu vaccine contains zero mercury.


Look up the definition of something which is medically "indicated" The vaccine is indicated for immunisation against flu. "Indicated" means a valid reason to use a medicine. The FDA regulates inserts and so it cannot be indicated for immunisation if it has not been deemed safe and effective for that purpose. So yeah the US government says it works.




Just wanted to mention that all this is a delicious copy pasta. Didn’t you moan at somebody for copying something earlier? Regardless, you can read the current packaging insert here, in it you can see the results of trials done including efficacy and paediatric safety. Your insert is out of date which is why your insert states "for use in patients 18 or older". So no need to cry "Look it says it's not safe for children!", when it wasn't used in children and now the US government deem it is suitable for use in those over 3 because more research has been done. Even the NHS uses a vaccine indicated for 2 year olds.



Again the dose makes the poison. The vaccine may contain no more than 25 mcg of formaldehyde, consider a pear contains 60mg, that’s over 2400x more than a shot. You can get preservative i.e. thimerosal-free vaccines, it’s really not an issue. Ovalbumin is egg protein isn't surprising given that the vaccine is produced using eggs hence the allergy warnings and why people with allergy shouldn’t have the vaccine. Sodium deoxycholate is used as a detergent. Deoxycholic acid is found in the body and a component of Niuhuang, a traditional Chinese medicine. What reason is there to believe that up to 50 micrograms of sodium deoxycholate is harmful?



This suggests to me that it is you who is the sheep who will happily believe anything spoon fed to you by “alternative media” as long as it conforms to your views. A simple trip to google would reveal $3.4 billion has been paid out over 27 years, not annually.



There is no mention of children and there is no mention of autism and puts the risk of vaccines at 1 in a million. Given that the risk of dying from tetanus is about 20%, I know what I'd prefer. You misunderstand how the program works, it is not scientific proof nor is it the government admitting vaccines cause autism nor is it the same as a regular legal court.


You are still unfairly targeting flu vaccines whose efficacy changes every year. Why not target a vaccine with a much higher rate of efficacy and success such as measles? You still deny the risk outweighs the benefit yet the CDC, who’s word goes as you say, state the risk of vaccines are much much lower than the disease. This is a much better version of my bridge analogy.

I read RCTs every week. They come with the BMJ. I have seen what great things vaccines have done for us - and how we don't have any cases of Smallpox, and how we deal with far less Measles, Mumps and Rubella patients than in the past.
As with any confidentiality agreement, you cannot breach it without risk of prosecution. This gentleman believes there has been a cover-up and wants to whistleblow. Far far more likely, we have an individual that - for a thousand reasons - has interpreted data wrongly and come to the wrong conclusion. He clearly feels the need to speak out - and Obama has allowed him to break his confidentiality agreement so that the scientific community can examine his claims and prove they are without truth.
Just because something is an innocent mistake doesn't mean someone else wont interpret it as a cover-up.
Please let your children have their 8/12/16 week vaccinations. That truly is my final word on the subject as we are spamming this thread inappropriately, but it is so important to show others that they have nothing to fear from vaccines.[/quote

So you introduce the subjects of 9/11,flat earth and the moon landings then accuse people of spamming the thread??? Then when you have lost the argument you decide it will be your last word. Are you real ?

Please don't bother trying to have an intelligent conversation with the anti vaxxers people. Its pointless, they wont listen to reason. Leave them to their illogical, irrational warped reasoning.

Can't actually believe they would put mercury in a medicine, wtf, total waste of one of the precious few planets we gave left in our solar system.

If you are eligible have it done at your surgery! If you have them done elsewhere the chemist gets paid for doing them and your local surgery miss out! Surgeries rely on extra income like this.

Please don't bother trying to have an intelligent conversation with the vax pushers. Its pointless, they wont listen to reason. Leave them to their illogical, irrational warped reasoning

​Tool

I've encountered similar attitudes in regards to how to treat serious illnesses like liver cirrhosis. You get people, who I assume have no medical qualifications or a science background, insisting that people use milk thistle and other home remedies and avoid pharmaceutical drugs.

Sometimes they state this emphatically to people who have cirrhosis and are actually dying and insist that cirrhosis is reversal with these home remedies. It's really quite sad as vulnerable people actually believe these people over trained medical professionals.

Sometimes, it's hard to gauge what is motivating their attitudes, whether they are sincere and just delusional but one thing is for certain, the common theme running through this is anti-science. They seem to find it very difficult to separate criticism of science from criticism of the pharmaceutical industry.