I agree, the gas lighting in my house works perfectly fine - don't be phased by these mod cons.

I really don`t get these, tech moves on just plug in a charger.

If only someone released a quickcharge 3.0 socket

Yeah, dodgy old CPC farnell selling their dodgy knockoffs. Along with Maplin selling meth and radio shack rife with people trafficking

Why would I be prosecuted?

And no, I'm not lying, I bought the first ones (kitchen and office) c3 years ago.

You need to let it go you're making yourself look silly.

I've had enough of this, I was trying to be helpful. Do whatever you like.

"Your honor these sockets have been fitted for years and there has never been any problems in my home. I dont see why I should be prosecuted now because they failed and set the house on fire now"

Also your either lying or have a strange estimate of "years" when the very first high end models only got released to the market late 2014.

As a qualified electrician you should surely know the difference between everything you have mentioned and these sockets.

Indeed, BEKO had some appliances that had issues, going by the above scaremongering we should only ever use Miele as they are da best...

Erm, my point is I've used them for a few years and they have been fine...better?

Yes, yes it is different.

Indeed... I guess it depends on if the appliance or device is inside the circle of trust or not.
Fridge/freezers are of course in but washing machines and tumble dryers are not :smiley:
It may be some time before in built USB chargers are trusted.

... I wonder how many people out there have door bells with permanently connected transformers (often onto a lighting circuit with only a 6A MCB protecting it), permanently connected TV aerial amplifiers in their attics (often onto a lighting circuit with only a 6A MCB), PELV/SELV transformers running constantly and bathroom fans that are controlled only by a timer switch (and are otherwise constantly live)? No one worries much about any of those things...

Do you switch your TV/projector, HiFi, Sky/Virgin box, DVD/Blu-ray, PS/Xbox etc... off at the wall or do you turn them off using the remote?

If only you could switch the usb on/off.

I use 3 of these and very useful too, especially if you are limited to only a few sockets for running other equipment.saves having multiple dedicated usb chargers cluttering up the place.

At the end of the day it's up to the individual to make the decision. Given that my 3 port usb car charger got so hot the other day that it melted the solder on the circuit board I'm just a little sceptical about how good some of these designs are. When it's screwed to a wall, within an enclosure with 230v and you will likely be out of the room when/if it fails then it's likely a bigger risk. I know other engineers who have them fitted, but I'm happy to wait for now.

I'm not sure there is so much ambiguity, here is a cut and paste from Part P or the Building Regulations (anyone may access it for free online, and I think it is easy enough to understand:
The following types of work are non-notifiable:
Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses.
Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (1)
Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (2)

Quite frankly, that is a joke of a report. Some of those unit look like cheap ones made abroad and not to UK standards.

Get a decent brand British one of these, install it with some degree of intelligence and you won't have a problem.

When reports like that don't test high quality units along side poor one and don't have the cojones to name the manufacturers then they can't expect to be taken seriously.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, but the law agrees with me: changing a socket outlet is not deemed to be notifiable work and does not need certification under Part P.
In my experience there are far more dangerous permanent fittings (particularly luminaires, and often very expensive ones, with no earthing arrangement at all) that are sold to the public.

Thanks. Changed my mind after reading.

Don't you just love tradespeople and regulatory bodies!

Forums are full of people with their interpretation of the regulations for their profession. But that's where the problem lies for me. If the regulations are so open for interpretation that fully qualified sparks, plumbers etc. can argue that others are wrong then what is the point of the bodies other than offering guidelines rather than regulations.

I disagree, it is significantly easier and safer to both visually and physically check terminations at a CCU then it is at a socket.
The danger with the sockets is that you cannot see what is going on with the cables and terminations when you are screwing the socket back into the pattress, you don't have this problem at the CCU/fuseboard.
ie you can both visually and physically verify the terminations at the CCU and then simply leave them, at a socket the cables and terminations have additional forces and manipulations applied to them AFTER these tests has been completed.

USB is a IT component originally so does come under BS60950 but it doesnt really mean anything in this case. That british standard is only for the safe use and installation on IT equipment and wiring for it networks.

There is no BS standard for USB wall sockets, hense why we are seeing cheap Chinese models come out. As long as they are fit for the normal BS for a socket (which has zero mention to permanent live usb sockets) they are "fit for your home" under the regulations. This means that the cheap versions like seen above will have any old part in them.

If you are going to buy these (and I wouldn't fit them for anyone and have refused to do jobs for people asking for them) go for the most expensive well know make you can find (MK).

People have dodgy wiring in their house for years and then 1 day it finally decided to go and burn the house down, whats your point?

Saying "these are perfectly fine because nothing has happened to me" is no different to saying "you should drink bleach because I drink it and Im fit and healthy"

Some real scaremongering going on here... I have similar to these dotted around the house and they have been fine for the past few years.

Oh, and the Screwfix ones seem gvfm @ c3A each.

I've had one of these for a while although been uneasy about it due to the various conversations on here over the last few months (it's something that has come up numerous times) and as such gone back to my original faceplate.

I'm a little intrigued and, given there's at least two contributors stating they're qualified sparks, thought I'd ask the question.

Unsurprisingly there's a BS 5733 notification on the rear of the faceplate which has already been explained. But in addition there's a BS EN 60950 notification with "FOR IT EQUIPMENT USE ONLY" included. I realise these are one and the same but I don't understand what it's supposed to mean in practice. If it's for IT Equipment only, what is it suggesting you can't use it for?

I'm
not in disagreement but ​the same applies to replacing a regular wall socket, people do that all the time.

Hi,
Whilst the physics you started with was more or less right (a better way of thinking about it might be that each socket's phase and neutral terminal is connected via two 2.5mm2 conductors of varying resistance (due to their length) in parallel. This solution is not quite the same as a 5mm2 conductor, and indeed under Regulation 433.1 a 4mm2 radial circuit would be protected by a 32A overcurrent device. The conclusion you come to about an overcurrent device not disconnecting the supply is correct, but I'm not sure you have thought the solution through.
I'd consider that the risks of not connecting two phase and two neutral lives (and the CPC) into their terminals and so creating a broken ring (which is difficult to detect) is quite small (I've never done that) compared with the chance of breaking a wire or terminal inside the DB box, particularly on older houses where the wires may be quite brittle. In fact I doubt that I'd take apart any DB with red and black wiring without replacing the DB box with a modern one (which most customers would not want to pay for if they just want a socket changed).
There is another difficulty in that after removing the four lives from the bottom of the MCB and neutral bar (and theCPCs from the earthing bar), testing the ring for continuity and replacing them, how would one know there was not a broken ring circuit inside the DB box as they were replaced? One could test from another socket on the ring, but in practice that is done by a visual inspection (do the screws up and check they can't be pulled out). This leaves one in exactly the same situation as at the socket that was changed: a ring circuit has to be broken somewhere to test it for continuity.
So... whilst I (sort of) agree with your sentiments (because it would mean lots more work for guys like me), I don't think the answer you suggest is a sensible one.

These are a more tidy solution to having chargers plugged in and they are very good value. For me though I would want to know more about who actually made them (not just the distributor) and tested them before fitting something that heated up my wall cavity!

Like electricians have said above, remove this item now! Self-installing invalidates any insurance payout, its also dangerous. The transformers like on mobile phone adapters warm up. You need space to keep it cool and even then its not enough. Ideally you should have a 45/35mm depth box behind.

This particular item has blue LEDs, s it will use electricity even if minute, but active parts also mean it can wear out compared to versions without a light. Why would you want a blue light from your wall socket permanently on??

Check for CE and British Kite marksand get a electrical safety certificate, do you really love your family?

Hmm this is concerning, I think I'll be removing my 2 as soon as I return home; although mine are branded and bought at diferent times from Screwfix a while ago (BG Nexus and LAP I think), and whilst I can't make out if my sockets were included in those tests I'm not taking any chances, cheers.

Rather refreshing to have a tradesman living in the real world.

I've got a couple of MK version of these, slightly more expensive but match the other sockets and are pretty well made. Not had any fires either which is always a bonus.

This might be controversial but when USB 3 becomes the standard, I'll just swap these for the new type. During the transition, I'm quite certain the four horsemen won't show up and life will carry on.

I wonder if he would be willing to give out his details as Im sure the NICEIC would be interested to hear his views on electrical work and testing (and recommendation of these sockets as "just as safe as PELV equipment when there has already been a safety notice gone out about these sockets)

I was tempted by this, until I read the bench safety test results on 9 different models - now a NO Why, see for yourself at:
[url=http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100145109/web_usb-article-from-so32.pdf

In the majority of UK homes sockets are wired into what is called a 'Ring Final' circuit. This is a loop of 2.5mm cable that goes out from the CCU/Fuseboard and returns to the CCU/Fuseboard in one big loop.
So it can be imagined as 2 parallel 2.5mm cables supplying each socket allowing the entire circuit to safely draw the same amount of current as a 5mm cable.
This 2.5mm ring final circuit has the same current carrying capacity as a 5mm radial (2x2.5) and is therefore protected at the CCU/Fuseboard with a 32A breaker (if the circuit draws over 32A for any significant amount of time the breaker will break preventing the cable from overheating and turning into what is effectively a heating element)

The danger of a broken ring final circuit is that you now have a 32A fuse protecting a cable with the CSA of 2.5mm instead of 5mm, if you were to say draw 30A for a significant amount of time the fuse would not blow and the single 2.5mm cable would become red hot and start a fire.

These USB sockets obviously have transformers in them and are therefore deeper, many DIY people will try and cram them into unsuitable back box's that are too shallow to safely accommodate them.
There is a serious risk that when people are squeezing them into the box's and screwing the front on that one or more of the conductors are either pulled out of the terminals or that they simply snap the solid core conductor due to all the squeezing and bending of the cables.
In many broken ring final cases the circuit will appear to be working fine however you now have 32A protecting cable with a CSA/thickness of 2.5mm, this is extremely dangerous and a serious fire risk.

This is why you REALLY should do a proper continuity test at the CCU/Fuseboard as you can't say for sure 100% what has happened to the terminations and cables while you were screwing the socked back onto the wall.

​Come on now, house bashing leccy to start with is a just a dumbed down version of proper leccy work and changing a socket is the bottom end of that spectrum, slightly above changing a plug just because of the isolation involved.. unless your a proper numpty anyone can do it

​Didnt someone get a Nobel prize for inventing them?

Blimey! A tradesman who hasn't posted on a forum with the sole aim to keep the sourcery and mysticism of their profession intact. Hats off to you sir!

I'm not sure I see your point here. As a qualified electrician I'd quite like it if only competent persons were allowed to change fittings, as I'd them be able to charge £75 for 5 minutes work, but that is not the law and lay people are allowed to do like for like replacements. There are only 6 wires (or 3 if it is the end of a spur or radial circuit) going into a socket and they are colour coded, are you implying that someone might leave some out completely and therefore continuity should be checked (not necessarily at the DB of course, any socket on the ring would do)? To be honest, I don't think many electricians would do a continuity check after changing a single socket, and I don't think many customers would pay for the time it took to do so. I'd be wary of causing inadvertent damage in taking a DB or another socket apart to test, and so would trust the 17th Ed meter to confirm the wiring and the Zs had not changed appreciably.
I've fitted quite a few of these USB wall plates and not has a single failure so far (although I get the odd double outlet socket that fails - but I suppose I fit 20 times as many of those). So far there have been no fires or deaths, the technology is pretty well proven and is no more dangerous than a PELV or SELV supply that millions of people have in their bathrooms. This is the cheapest price I have seen for this item, so I've added some heat.

Each to his own. For those with limited socket availability like me - these are ideal. Took me about 5 mins to install and kept my old socket if I need to change back.

Shocking

Got one of these from Wickes few months ago

Maybe turn the power off first?

If anyone's interested, Screwfix have an upgraded version of this that runs at 3.1 amp, 2 for £18 I believe and come in different finishes as well.

These are a waste of time.
If and when the USB it becomes useless.
So you have to leave it or changed it

Better with something like anker 6port 60w charger
For £20, plug in and away you go

The target market for these is student, hotel, pubs, stations, tourists locations. At home, it is better to keep sockets simple and maintenance free. USB port means a transformer and possible loose connection with USB pins, well to avoid them at any cost.

Think you should change your sparky if you're getting that many fires. :smiley:

P=VxI (setting aside PF)
5v x 2.1A = 10.5W
10.5W / 230v = 0.045A
Therefore minimal current loading!
Do you get a buzz from scaremongering?

​Gas lighting, that's modern stuff, I am still using candles

Bumping this post - we`ve had 3 major fires at my works (requiring 10+ fire engines) , all from failed electrics . Big or small electrics , the outcome is the same , if you can say "I love the smell of burnt bakelite in the morning" you need a proper spark .

is the total mean if only one USB is plugged in, that USB will get 2.1a still?

Doesnt really make any difference, still got current pulling on top of a normal socket with no room at the back for the cables.

Also just had a read through these on CPC, I would 100% not recommend these to anyone, they are cheap chinese made sockets.

They only comply to BS5733 which means they only have to actually comply as a socket, there is no British Standard for USB sockets yet. The USB part of that socket can be done in any way with any cheap component they can find.

Its scary to think people are buying these and any tom dick or harry is fitting them

I really don`t get these, tech moves on just plug in a charger.

It's 2.1 amp total, not 2x 2.1 amp.

Very easy if you have a deep back-box (ooo-er missus). Can be a squeeze if you don't. Plus read the comments by the Hypnotoad above.

3 or 6 wires out, the same back in. Maybe have a fly earth if taken off a metal box.

So these actually draw any power when nothing is plugged in?

Also another word of warning for people the main problem with these sockets are the step down transformers in the back of the socket.

You have all seen the notices that say never leave your charger on all the time because when the charger stops working its because the transformer has burnt out, well the vast majority of these sockets (bar the MK and really expensive ones) constantly pull a small amount of current through the transformer 24/7 which not only is it not cost effective it will eventually burn out. When your charger burns out you throw it away, when these sockets burn out you have to completely remove it and change it, problem with that is the entire time you wait to change it they still have voltage going on to the primary side of a burnt out transformer.

At this point you better hope you have a good RCD breaker on the circuit as at the very least its going to quickly melt the back of that socket (and again try getting an insurance company to pay out when its proven that dodgy usb socket you fitted yourself was the cause of a fire)

Installed one of these last weekend. Seems decent enough for the price. If folk are worried about redundancy in a few years time, just keep the front plate that you take off. Personally, i think that the growing popularity and the very fact that they're being built into domestics sockets goes some way to extending their position and life span.

A small word of warning, these take up a lot more space than the plate i took off (MK bevelled top) and, while the depth was ultimately, just about acceptable, it was really touch and go for a while whether they would actually fit.

Yes just reverse the process of taking off the old one

If you don't mind having a charger permanently powered on and hidden behind the wall of your house that could possibly overheat or catch fire that's your call.
Personally I don't even like to leave normal chargers plugged in when not being used after reading about some cheaper makes catching fire.

Unless the people installing these truly understand the serious danger and literal fire risk of broken ring finals I fear the abundance of these cheap USB sockets will cause a lot of house fires and possible deaths in the years to come!

If you don't fully understand whats just been said please research and educate yourself on the matter before installing new sockets, you MUST do a continuity test at the CCU after messing around with a ring final!
A broken ring final is VERY VERY dangerous!! (It will appear to be working just fine but will have the potential to start a fire once the circuit is drawing a high load)

How are these dangerous?

These are very dangerous. MK are the only ones I would trust and are five times the price for a reason.

USB-C more likely, as that's actually the plan.

.... But you know the light is on and it really bugs

It is nice, but of course you wonder how well it ages. Cheap chargers tend to die after a year or two of being plugged in. And in a few years, phones will use USB C with PD for charging, which delivers more power than the current 2.1A quasi-standard.

good find OP

​micro USB ???????????????????

Same warnings apply as every other time these things are posted! Not a good idea.

think these have the lovely blue light, which keeps you awake at night, so dont install by your bed!!!!

good find op, heat added

I hope they're better than this selection here

If only someone released a quickcharge 3.0 socket

shame only 2.1a total