Moisture problems at home? just gaze into her eyes, you'll know if it's game on or not :wink:

Yes there is, it starred Leonard Rossiter.

Moisture problems are normally caused by limited preparation time before the mainjob.

Remember... There is no such thing as 'rising damp' - it doesnt exist... No evidence at all for it.

Many years working in the trade and i have never seen a damp issue that couldnt be explained by something more realistic

I work in restoration dealing with water damaged properties daily. Rising damp is not a myth. But I have worked in this type of role for 2.5 years and have not come across a property that couldn't be solved with a logical explanation. Either an escape of water from pipework or an ingress from an external issue - failing dpc, guttering etc. Of course poor ventilation is also a common issue.

I use a Moisture Meter daily. Which is the Protimeter Mms2 and costs around £700. Although this cheap model may give you some indication of moisture levels its accuracy is very questionable. Also the scale it uses is based for wood - WME - Wood moisture equivalent and will only be truly accurate for wood. There are other scales and further equipment to accurately measure the Moisture levels of other building materials.

Do not invest in any type of aftermarket Damp Proofing this will only excaberate the problem. They are all farce and a waste of money.

If stuck. Get a decent surveyor with a thermal imaging camera to highlight your damp issues for around £200.

As I feared, it's why I haven't googled it. Thanks for replying!

Pretty much nothing.

Really nice to see a number of people and builders on this forum aware of the rising damp myth, unlike the majority of ignorant numpties on my road who've already ruined their homes with an injectable DPC

check out Peter Ward's channel where he discusses the issue
https://www.youtube.com/user/stibnite11

Although I wouldn't agree 100% with you, I do agree that almost all of the time damp is penetrating rather than 'rising' and that the solutions offered (e.g. chemical injection) are rarely, if ever, the answer. There appear to be logical fallacies in his arguments though, for example "It doesn't happen in this example so it can't happen anywhere" when there are many types of construction and materials. Another example is that it can't reach a metre high because capillary action won't take it that high past the first joint - damp doesn't have to go higher than that, it only needs to be high enough to hit a different, more absorbent material such as a render or plaster. I've had 3 instances of damp at home. One was dodgy guttering and another a pointing problem but the was a door-frame that was standing in a pool of water in the masonry that I couldn't see - this allowed water to rise upwards - and of course wood is a lot more porous than brick. Injecting something into the bricks would have done nothing to stop this...

I think what he says about not hacking plaster off is half right - you shouldn't replace it with a 'waterproof' render as you simply move the problem. But plaster is often damaged and/or has salts coming through that will continue for a long time after the problem is fixed - it sometimes does need replacing, albeit with the same (i.e. not waterproof) materials once the underlying problem is sorted and everything is dry.

Peter Ward himself says that rising damp is 'rare' rather than non-existent.

This deal should be expired. The heat is based on the original price of £12.57 which is misleading.

Really all anyone has to go on is a bunch of examples, and for me the things that Peter Ward has pointed out as issues to look out for.
Everything I've seen so far has indicated he is right, there is always a reason for damp other than claiming it is rising damp.
Sometimes it is not obvious and you do have to be methodical in tracing the origin.

Rising damp is all based on the idea that bricks will transfer water by capillary action, when you can test this for yourself and see it has no basis. Even religions put up more proof than this.

Maybe you've read evidence that I haven't. If you can point me in that direction it would be helpful - Googling has proven pretty useless as you are swamped by people selling damp-proofing and when you do find an article they seem heavy on claims (in both directions), light on facts and are invariably from vested interests or are sensationalist newspaper stories.

As I said, I am genuinely interested but it's the first time I've heard this - I believe in evaluating things for myself and I'm struggling to find the facts to do so.

BSc (Hons) MCIOB (Chartered Institute of Building)
good enough I think.
I know a fair bit about building and she knew more than me about her area.

yeh one guy is selling a book, and thousands of builders are selling £400 injectable DPCs to suckers, I wonder who has the greater vested interest here?

Councils (and banks) are equally culpable, they won't allow a damp property to be rented without this magic fix, and any further damp is blamed on something else.

Was she definitely a surveyor? It usually seems to be valuers rather than surveyors that wander round with the meters...

And yes, found all sorts of 'evidence' (opinion would be a better description). Suspect the truth is somewhere in-between. As for finding someone unbiased, I couldn't. The main proponent saying it's a myth has a book to sell and as for the damp-proofing firms - turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Would still love to know why our floors are self-destructing.

Really? All I've found is parties with a commercial interest in promoting the issue, those who want to sidestep responsibility, and those who supply proof that the cause is always something else.

My surveyor, very qualified, very experienced - still pointed at "rising damp" (using the same two pronged toy here)
When quite clearly the problem was the guttering outflow was all being deposited against the rear wall.

Was she lying or was she just stupid, I can't decide.

Not getting into an argument about 'rising damp' definition. Outdoor levels being higher than indoor levels are a big factor - incorrect drainage or blocked drainage... Poor ventilation... The list goes on.

But rising damp - in its most 'common' definition simply does not exist... And never has.

Do a google search... Far more intelligent people than you and i will confirm this is the case. Its been scientifically proven many times - dpc's are useless... Completely useless. Find the root cause and damp will disappear... The solution is not to whack in a new dpc...

Seriously... Research the subject.

Moisture problems at home? just gaze into her eyes, you'll know if it's game on or not :wink:

What absolute tosh...

So lets be clear here you push a probe inside to see if there is moisture hmmm :man:

This meter has allowed me to prove my case and I'm now in the process of taking my local council to trial.
They use the Protimeter? Whenever it alerted they'd say, it's calibrated to wood, as an excuse. I soon proved they were talking carp.

​They'll be pretty much the same. Both work in exactly the same way and to much the same tolerances. £300+ more too. :smile:

Wife wasn't amused.

One's a cheap paper weight - one's an expensive one...

Don't waste your money on this, buy the real deal instead:
http://www.damp-meter-direct.co.uk/protimeter-surveymaster.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjw86e4BRCnzuWGlpjLoUcSJACaHG55BeViWF2nO1X8REc19q2EC9SlfM-gqEuWYORTYTv05xoCA8fw_wcB#.Vwqz74ikqrV

I'd like to think I'm an okay tenant for this. I always use the extractor hood/fan when cooking/showering and open the windows at least once a week for a few hours. Still got damp.

The letting agent had a look and found the guttering was broken which was the main patch. For the other part, no-one had realised that there were no vents, not even trinkle vents so they put it down to inadequate ventilation after initially arguing that windows should be open more in the middle of winter in a house which is already very cold.

Well maybe your hand is always damp but mine is usually fairly dry :smile:

Think you have damp? Drill into the brick - collect dust samples from the brick - use a carbide moisture detector... I'll bet that any tide marks on your plaster are (in the main) bad ventilation not 'rising damp' - just moisture looking for a place to settle.

I own a few houses and you find that the good tenants never get damp - thebad ones tend to... Why? Because the bad ones stop air ventilation in critical areas. Which starts the black marks, tide lines and eventually mould. Not closing vents - using extractor hoods, extractor fans in bathrooms... Etc etc is usually the cause.

The sooner people wake up to this rising damp scam the better... Its scary - people spend thousands on remedies when usually its something simple.

These just measure electrical conductance so don't think it's really that accurate on anything other than wood.... it's why 'Damp Specialists' use these sorts of things to get damp 'results' - you can probe these things against your hand and it'll register 'damp'

Remember... There is no such thing as 'rising damp' - it doesnt exist... No evidence at all for it.

Many years working in the trade and i have never seen a damp issue that couldnt be explained by something more realistic

I'm just thinking back to when I was renting, maybe that's different, haven't had any problems in my own property so I might be wrong. Soz.

Save yourself the money and bother, just call in environmental health if you are concerned, they have the right tools and will take accurate readings for free. They can also give advice on how to remedy any problems etc.

Do it... It wont...

Nope...

I used this to track down which parts of a wall needed repairing. Well worth the money.

Not correct that all damp meters are calibrated to timber. Most have dual settings for "building" or "timber". When set to detect moisture levels in the timber calibrated mode you will get readings that indicate if timber in the vicinity of the dampness is at risk of decay. Generally (depending on species) timber cannot sustain dampness at more than 21% WME (wood moisture equivalent) before decaying. So long term dampness in a wall at more than 21% is likely to cause wet rot if timber is in contact with the wall (e.g. wall plates, joist ends etc.). Dry rot is different and depends on there being humidity and lack of ventilation in a void where timber is located. When used on walls that have been damp and still contain salts (hygroscopic in nature) or on materials with high carbon content can give indications of dampness when none is present - this is because the meter (as some have observed) only detects current between the pins, and current will flow between the pins when there is enough conductance caused by mineral/chemical deposits. Using a moisture meter without knowledge of building defects and the technology of damp meters can be dangerous and give misleading results. The damp meters used by surveyors are typically £150 to £200, the reason being that surveyors need to have reliable instruments that are quite different from the cheap ones sold online and that are often calibrated just for "buildings". For anyone thinking of getting a damp meter (e.g. taking on a landlord in a disrepair case) I would suggest reading the book published by Protimeter "Dampness in Buildings: Diagnosis, Treatment, Instruments", which is a standard text for building surveying students (or it should be if the university is doing its job).

I love how everyone on HDUK are an expert!

I bought one of these (same model) when I moved into my new house last year and used it to take daily readings. I hired two dehumidifiers from HSS and tracked the reduction in moisture.

I can highly recommend it. It give me great piece of mind to take a steady reading every couple of weeks after the dehumidifiers were returned.

A must have for the caravanner, especially when buying a used caravan. My £6 meter from eBay has also served it's purpose here though.

Recently installed a log burner and this has been perfect for checking if logs are seasoned before burning, making the burner much more efficient

Don't buy this. They're rubbish - if you have concerns get someone in to look as this will tell you absolutely nothing useful.

Rising damp DOES exists in theory however in practice the main causes of damp are condensation/poor ventilation, moisture penetration or a leak/tracking moisture. Check extracts are on and pulling sufficient air, get trickle vents fitted if you don't have them, check external ground levels don't bridge dpc, check for leaks to gutters, downpipes, hoppers etc. If someone tells you that you need an injected dpc, try a French drain for a year first, will solve dpc level damp issues 9 times out of 10.

Just use a multi-meter...

As an FYI. Bringing one of these to a house viewing serves two purposes, firstly you can hunt out hidden damp. Chimney breasts etc, saving on potential homebuyer surveys like I have! And secondly usually the estate agent is a little shocked you are so well prepared and treats you like more of an adult! "Aaaand this is the kitchen!" - as if the sink and oven and worktops didn't give it away!

I don't need one of these as I can just look at the mound growing on my walls :disappointed:

Yes generally there is another factor which is causing moisture to ingress or penetrate though the fabric.

In your case its highly unlikely that the orginial slate DPC to the kitchen would have failed. It is more likely that the external areas have, over the years, been built up and are either breaching the DPC or there is not the minimum 6 inch distance between ground level and the course.

Rising damp is a term generally used by salesman of liquid DPC companies to sell there products, which are a waste of money.

That term doesn't really fit. I just renovated a victorian house, and had damp issues in the back kitchen. Had 2 different building firms suggest that it was either a burst pipe, or that the damp course (or whatever they used then) had gone due to age and a membrane fitted in the floor would keep the water out of the room. Both terrible and expensive solutions...

In the end my decorator suggested it was the small puddle by the outer wall after raining. All we needed to do was repave and direct away from the house. Cleared up pretty quickly.

Is their point that the term 'rising damp' is never a cause of a problem, it's always something else? I always just assumed it was a term for a symptom, and therefor valid

Many damp situations are caused by water ingress from external sources. Such as a leaking roofline gutter allowing rain to saturate the external wall and that eventually causes "ingress" through to inner wall above the dpc level. Another typical issue is where a boundary wall is built into the house wall again causing a "bridge" between a wet wall and the house again causing ingress above the dpc level. If internal render and plaster is allowed to go below the dpc that too will cause a bridge resulting in capiliary action and resulting in damp. Such damp in this situation is commonly known as Rising Damp, as its source is below the dpc. Once saturated the damp will cause damage to the substrate of the building even after the source of damp has been resolved, this requires treatment of the fabric of the building with "salt away" to neutralize the salt or cutting away and replacing the damaged plaster, render or brickwork. Plastering over the damage will result in the salt showing through on the new plaster /wall. These meters are therefore useful to indicate where potential moisture exists, however care is needed to consider what is causing the moisture, it may be rising damp however equally it may be many other causes including condensation !

If you think you have damp, get a flaming professional in!
Agreed, but get an independent damp specialist in who does not actually carry out renovation work.
These people are quite hard to find but are out there.
Damp company's are inclined to find problems in order to keep themselves in work.
Rising damp may be real or maybe not but let the real experts decide for you, NOT damp company salesmen.

Rising damp has been shown to be a myth, though there are many damp issues in UK homes. I had an issue highlighted by a surveyor which my mortgage lender used to withhold an amount on the mortgage. We moved in, put the heating on and opened windows occasionally, we sold the house having done no repairs with no damp issues. Houses need ventilation, damp is often caused by inadequate air flow.

The closest term would be flooded.

If rising damp doesn't exist then why bother building with a damp-proof course?! Older constructions most certainly can suffer from rising damp - the house I grew up in as a child was from the 1800s and the kitchen was a horrid wet mess for most of the year.

If you think you have damp, get a flaming professional in!

Good deal op.

Fair point... But dont be conned by these meters... They are useless on walls and are meant for wood.

There is absolutely no use for them in detecting damp in the house.. Dont waste your money... It'll show high damp levels in almost any house, thats why companies use them to flog equally useless dpc's!!

Yes there is, it starred Leonard Rossiter.

Hi guys its a very good price for a moisture meter. I am a building surveying student and moisture meters are only calibrated for timber so the results are only accurate in timber. However if they are used in other materials such as brick, plaster etc they can give an indication if the material is damp. You just cant rely on the results 100%

may as well buy a cheap multimeter and use the resistance setting, then at least you have it to test batteries with as well!

looks useful, thanks op, can this be used to check the moisture level in the air of a room or the loft?

It's got 2 prongs that need to make contact with a surface. You get a visual and audio reading. The display is poor in a dark corner but the beeping gets faster the more damp detected. It tells you what readings are normal on the back. My walls were 33%, 16% is the maximum accepted in homes

Only a usefull tool if you understand how it works, and what it should read!

Thanks

​in description it says brick

Only works with wood

Hmmmmm had a look and found this one, any ideas on the differences?

Tena Lady would sort you out......oops!

Instruction manual: http://www.brennenstuhl.com/index.php?module=explorer&displayAction=download&downloadFile=products/en-DE/pdf/instruction_manual_1298680_0451781_ba.pdf