Firstly, a lot of people have said the PSVR is better, more comfortable and because of Sony' expertise in screens also looks better than the ocolus

Secondly the rift is £600 + a £1000 for a PC that can run the damn thing, so your maths logic is way off, and speaking from Experience as someone who has the lot, including a PC with a 980, I still play on my consoles way more than the PC...so everyone is different, but what I can tell you is, asking Jimmy to get his mum to sell his PS4 and pay £1600 just so he can play on something that is better on paper (but not in reality, if all the reports are to be believed) aint going to happen.... not in poor jimmies lifetime

oh, the PS4 camera is £40 amn move controllers can be had for pennies FYI

And I love the "slot a new GPU in", because PC manufacturers never change the standards for slots or compatibility, or memory requirements for new hardware, etc. etc.

12,000 units seems like a rubbish figure. One of the biggest gaming launches, akin to a new console launch, announced 7 months before launch and they can only provide 12,000 units. Very questionable info.

​Why do I keep reading posts like this on every Playstation VR thread when the maths clearly don't work. The Playstation Eye camera and Move controllers definitely don't push the price of a £350 VR piece of kit up to the £600 the Oculus Rift costs?

Amazon can't sell out of a product for pre-order, especially not when the release date is October, they can run out of preorder spaces though. It's all to do with them thinking you're missing something. :smiley:

12,000 units seems like a rubbish figure. One of the biggest gaming launches, akin to a new console launch, announced 7 months before launch and they can only provide 12,000 units. Very questionable info.

That's a shame.
Only one per order.
These things will be next Xmas most wanted.

The figure of 12,000 sounds like they don't have a lot of faith in either the UK public spending more than the price of a console on what boils down to a headset. Or the first run is being treated as a test case which means the software probably isn't going to be there at launch anyway.

Until this comes bundled with the PS4.5 (which is probably the real reason that thing needs to exist) for less than £400, take up is going to be very slow.

Hasn't been out of stock at GAME, Amazon, Gamestop etc etc...If there were only 12,000 available in the UK at launch, I would think it would have been by now?

What's the difference on purchasing this from .de, .es or .fr?

Considering the cost of the camera and controllers, you're not paying much more to go for the much better oculus rift
I speak from experience when I say that selling your ps4/xb1 and building a pc is a much better investment, and will keep you gaming at top res for years with easy upgrades (i.e. sell your old gpu, buy a new gpu and slot it in)
I use my PS4 controller with it, as I got so used to controller/couch gaming that I won't want to play with kb/mouse

Instructions should be English right? And it will be compatible with my uk ps4? Not sure whether to get from here or spend more money for one in the uk

Not sure that's true.

what that Game wont **** you over and tell you in October they did not get enough stock from Sony

Don't forget the Oculus touch controllers too!

indeed, it is like people who have paid loads for their rift come into every PSVR thread to say that we are wrong and the Oculus is where it is, and pretend the price is even close :smiley:

not to mention as a developer who looks at this will see 50million PS4 in homes with access to PSVR vs less than 1% of the PC market with a PC that can run the Rift

who would you develop for?

I await the mass breakdown on reddit Oculus when the PSVR games are getting ported across from PSVR

Thanks.

I'm really unsure on the ps vr.

From articles they say the controllers are off slightly so it can remove the emersion from the VR.

Not sure why Sony didn't make new controllers to solve this issue. I'm feeling more towards holding off at the moment. Even though I really want it!

Then I don't get why all the hate to buy from .es: http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ps-vr-320-stock-amazon-es-2415576 It's exactly the same price, and in Euros, lol.

HUKD deals are all about timings, I bet you posted that at the weekend.... if it is not Tesco et al at weekends always go cold

So you're the guy in the comments of every YouTube video.

Amazon UK should really match this price.

good price. unless we leave the EU and you have to pay tax.

Ordered, not sure I want one but good to get an order in now just in case

so tempting

And I love the "slot a new GPU in", because PC manufacturers never change the standards for slots or compatibility, or memory requirements for new hardware, etc. etc.

Wait what? They're moving the UK? Are we going to be attached to France now?

Do Amazon take payment for it right away or not until it's ready to be shipped??

This will be in clearance bins by the new year due to lack of support....... until someone releases an *ahem* "adult entertainment" App for the PS4 :confused:

Haha worth placing an order then even if you can't afford it right now as these will go up in price once they sell out at launch

I found this easy to be understood article for you. Hope it is not only going to answer your questions but also saves you from illiteracy, lol.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

Right... but you said


Not from the.

Illiterate? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Lol good response, although I would have used a better more credibile link instead of one from the BBC news website

1) It's credible
2) Have you ever been featured on "spEak You're bRanes"?

I am not going to argue with you if by today you have never used any mobile phones for typing. Seriously, it is so lame to blame people for typos nowadays. Grow up.... And study the content from the link, might save your life at some point. :stuck_out_tongue:

*phew* all this non-PSVR chat was getting seriously boring.

Right, we shall open a non-PSVR chat thread under your "cat chat" thread then, shall we? :wink:

Good price voted hot, also ordered for myself. Also have a rift on order for my PC. Running a DK2 for over a year cannot play Elite or iracing now without VR.

Sorry what? If what you mean is "Have you ever used a mobile phone to type?", then yes, I have. Doing it right now.


Not sure what you mean by that. Is that a threat?

Has there been any news on what games will be supported? Or if devs are making games specifically for use of psvr

Those rollercoaster sims on oculus look awesome hoping for something similar

*bRains

No, it's bRanes. You just aren't smart enough to understand the joke.

Sadly the website is no-more. Especially since ignorance, narcissism, stupidity, hypocrisy, and bad grammar are on the rise.

See more here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/SpEak_You're_bRanes

"Sadly the website is no-more. Especially since ignorance, narcissism, stupidity, hypocrisy, and bad grammar are on the rise"

I can see the remnants of it from the way you comment here and on the kfc colonels club thread :smirk:

No, that threads about cats. Why not do it in one of the many, many 'In or Out' threads?

Sony VR the next kinect.............................Long live the Vita.........................oh dear.

Spot on. Even then, it is going to need some work over time to still be capable of playing stellar games during the lifetime of a console.

I'd say the opposite will be true, Ebay will be flooded by people either not impressed by it or simply unable to use it without suffering nausea.

Ah VR. Proof that in an over saturated market place, people will indeed buy any old crap (and will pay through the nose for it as well).

I managed to order one, in fact wanted to get one more, and then error when adding to basket:

Decreasing amount of this product is unfortunately limited . We have changed your number to the maximum possible purchase amount . (changed to 0)

Edit: Or it might be one per customer, as I wanted to order 2 straightaway and it didn't let me?

OOS now then?

The PSVR is better? Come on yes it's a good price but BETTER than the oculus (or even the VIVE for that matter) is seriously a load of bull shooting out your face! Don't get me wrong, PSVR looks good but better than the other VR headsets it most certainly is NOT. Stop spreading misinformation and literally talking out of your behind. Thank you

not me saying that, so no need to be offensive, just have a read around... no one for one min is saying the PSVR is a powerful, what they are saying is that it is more comfortable and Sony have nailed the screens and the feel better...

and it is all to do with how Sony is implementing it...

This will fail miserably as with 3D. Most people, me included, were not really interested in putting glasses on to view something or game but strapping something to your head for hours on end sounds like a terrible idea. For VR read 3D. I'd rather gaming consoles concentrated on more powerful hardware to deliver 4k graphics.

Do people never learn ???? Making additions to consoles NEVER works . The 4.5 with a streaming for 4k and a built in 4k player will be what happens imo

Ordered cheers had a 10euro voucher as well

But unlike the PSVR, you aren't limited to a very select choice of games with the Rift.

yep, but that is the same as console vs PC argument, regardless of VR... Consoles will always be a closed eco system

Cannot guarantee at this price, Amazon don't take your money until the item ships!

we already are, with the channel tunnel.

£315.63 at Gamestop.ie: https://www.gamestop.ie/PlayStation%204/Games/46341/playstation-vr

I'm so fuuuuunnnny.. I just made a witty comment off the back of someone's typo.. Laugh my people...Laugh!

* figuratively

That system posted is far more powerful than any console at the moment, so it should be fine for the life time of the console.

A £550 PC is not going to be delivering new games at a top level, in eight years time. It's also over double the price of a PS4. This all still makes the original argument, nonsence.

Yes, several times. It's a fad and will hopefully go the same way as 3DTV.

I purposely wrote literally, as I imagined him talking out his backside like Ace Ventura. There is no way to take the guy seriously everything he has said is total nonsense! "It's a better experience" etc - lol - based on what?! The lower specifications, non native frame rate and smaller field of view? Total rubbish honestly! Like I said before, sure to not a bad VR experience but for him to suggest it's "better" in any way is totally stupid.

Fair enough, I agree with the view that PSVR will be the lesser experience of all the headsets, but Ace Ventura was only pretending to speak from his backside, so "literally" is still incorrect. Sorry for being a pedant, but this is a pet peeve.

Neither will a PS4 if we are to be honest here.

Anyway I have voted hot for the price, but I am sitting on the fence until I see what others think when they are out. It could be another fad.

I'm basing it on what a PS3 offered in comparison to a PC, when launched. I think it's inarguable that a PS4 lifespan will be greater than that of a PC, in the sense that in many years time it'll still play new games, out of the box, without needing any upgrading. The PC will, and it costs double.

I have a gaming PC, I have nothing against it, but if we hit back to the original argument, it's not comparable.

Why hopefully? Obviously there are a lot of people who want this tech because of the different experience it offers.

It's usually me correcting people - so to make you feel better let's just assume that he has a special talent that really does allow him to use his backside to talk!

It's usually me correcting people - so to make you feel better let's just assume that he has a special talent that really does allow him to use his backside to talk!

"Sounds" like a terrible idea. Have you used it?

For those who guarantee this will fail like 3D TV, you're demonstrating that you don't understand the technology and the benefits and differences between them. This is not a slightly-supported, under-immersive tech that doesn't bring any additional gameplay benefits or experiences like 3D TV did. VR is a new platform, of which PSVR, Oculus and/or Vive will not be the final form but they absolutely are the starting point.

3D TV failed. Motion gaming failed. VR works because it does both those things and better, bringing a kind of immersion that hasn't been possible before and at various price points. PS VR, while less powerful than Oculus or Vive, has a standardised platform as its advantage. VR brings a level of immersion that supercedes the fact you're wearing a headset, which isn't something that wearing those (godawful) glasses for 3D TV gave you.

But then you're the guy who says that Bloodborne must be a badly designed game because you don't understand it and aren't very good at it.

There's a difference between having an informed opinion, and just being opinionated. And that's another difference I know you won't see either.

I understand Bloodborne fully. I just think that its a badly designed pile of garbage.

They are both the same in the regard that they require you to wear something which is obtrusive and uncomfortable. In fact VR is worse because it requires you to essentially plug yourself in and close yourself off to your surroundings making it essentially unsuitable for people with young children for example. At least 3D TV glasses could be very easily removed.

Because its another example of a gimmicky piece of crap being forced into the market because people have stopped buying or replacing TVs as fast as the manufacturers would like.

No, you absolutely don't. You criticise it because it doesn't have save points. Which is exactly the point of what makes it so good (instead of just convincing you that you're any good yourself) and also why you are incapable of understanding the difference between you not liking something, you not being good at something, and something not being good.

I haven't tried Oculus or Vive but PS VR isn't obtrusive and it isn't uncomfortable. In the slightest.

And who exactly is advocating letting their young children immerse themselves in VR or anything else solitary for hours at a time?

Regardless - since closing yourself off to your surroundings is a problem, that must also be why you don't go to the cinema except when you've demanded they turn the lights on and you can talk to other people throughout the film. That's also why you never check your phone when you're out in public unless you're on the tube and show people what you're looking at. That's also why, when you sit at home on your console or PC, you also insist that other people are sitting there with you and watching you play it, and why you regularly take breaks to look at the wall with them or perhaps that lovely potted plant you have in the corner and also why you've never, ever closed your eyes to listen to music because you're plugged in and closed off to your surroundings.

I'm not getting into Bloodborne again and even if I wanted to then this wouldn't be the right thread on which to do that.

I entirely understand why you wouldn't want to - but it's just important to highlight to people when you're trying to pass off your unqualified opinion as fact again, in case anyone believes you.

Nobody is (hopefully) recommending that children use VR although it wouldn't surprise me at all if some parents start using it as a babysitting mechanism for their kids in the way that a lot of largely irresponsible parents use iPads now.

The difference between VR and the likes of the cinema, headphones etc is that those things only generally take one of your senses away whereas VR essentially renders your unconscious to the world around you. That's why it is unsuitable for people who need to look after their kids (even when the kids are in bed) or anybody who doesn't quite fancy plugging themselves into the matrix every time they want to play a game.

If you're using a phone/tablet or playing a game using a TV screen then you can always look away whereas your house could be broken into or catch fire whilst using VR and you might not realise until its too late.

VR isn't just a fad. It's a particularly dangerous and worrying fad and I personally can't wait until it fades into obscurity where it belongs. Incidentally, I have used Oculus on a few occasions over the last few years so I'm not just blindly criticising VR for the sake of it.

You only think my opinion is unqualified because I disagree with you. With regards to Bloodborne, I have illustrated on several occasions both here and elsewhere why I think it is an extremely poor example of software design. Those who have tended to disagree have either usually been PlayStation fanboys or people who for whatever reason feel that modern games are too easy and see themselves as part of some sort of rebellion against today's AAA.

Given that it's been designed do you can take it off with one hand and can pull the screen forward out if the way, I wouldn't say that it true.

It's also not supposed to be used by kids under 12. So you're argument is, people will use it not as intended and irresponsibly? That's hardly a flaw with the product is it. It's a flaw with human beings.

But by design it is intended to remove your attention from your surroundings as much as current technology can allow. You might be able to remove it more easily than previous iterations of the hardware but its still not possible to look away. To my knowledge there has also not yet been any conclusive research conducted regarding the effects that long-term use can have on the eyes and brain.

Or the millions of people who bought it, the 100 critics who reviewed it for the near-unparalleled 92 score on Metacritic or even the 50k people who (pointlessly) petitioned for it to come to PC.

But please, don't let the fact that you couldn't beat the first boss have any bearing on all this.

I did beat the first boss. If you'd actually properly bothered to read anything that I'd written about that game, I passed both the Cleric Beast and Father Gascoigne before I gave up on it. It wasn't like I just played it for 5 minutes and then made up my mind from there.

And many a poor game has been given a high critical reception, and in particular, a higher user review score in the past and vice-versa. Unfortunately reviews are no longer the indicator that they once were.

So you're saying that iPads are a fad and should not become mainstream?


This is such unbelievable nonsense. Are you saying it's not good to watch a film at the cinema either in case your baby is at home crying or your house is on fire? A movie at the cinema and music on your headphones is designed to do exactly the same thing that VR is - immerse you as much as it can in the experience. In fact, cinema chains explicitly ask you not to talk during a film and to put your phone to silent. Again, are you saying that you only ever listen to music on headphones with your eyes open in case you're about to be burgled?

[/quote]That's why it is unsuitable for people who need to look after their kids (even when the kids are in bed) or anybody who doesn't quite fancy plugging themselves into the matrix every time they want to play a game.[/quote]
Sorry, again - so is entertainment media or bad parenting the problem here?


You're trolling, aren't you? You're not being serious?


Fortunate, then, that the hundreds of companies investing in and developing for VR across the board have also tried it and don't seem to agree with you. But then, just like Bloodborne, you seem assured that you know the truth, don't you?

ps. I hope you checked the windows and doors while reading this. You may be being burgled at any point!

So? You use it responsibly, not when looking after kids or cooking your dinner. Immersion is not a negative thing.

There's nothing to say it's dangerous either. Reading while make you short sighed, tv will make your eyes square and gaming I general lowers your intelligence y'know :wink:

So you didn't get out of Yharnam then?

That's why it is unsuitable for people who need to look after their kids (even when the kids are in bed) or anybody who doesn't quite fancy plugging themselves into the matrix every time they want to play a game.[/quote]Sorry, again - so is entertainment media or bad parenting the problem here? You're trolling, aren't you? You're not being serious?Fortunate, then, that the hundreds of companies investing in and developing for VR across the board have also tried it and don't seem to agree with you. But then, just like Bloodborne, you seem assured that you know the truth, don't you?
ps. I hope you checked the windows and doors while reading this. You may be being burgled at any point![/quote]
I think you're purposefully misreading and misquoting everything that I've said in attempt to put your flawed argument across.

I have no issue with iPads although I think people using them as a babysitting mechanism is irresponsible. When you go to the cinema or watch a movie in the dark at home you can still hear what's going on around you and quickly look around to see something else if you need to. VR is specifically designed to remove those abilities from you and attach you to technology in a way that I, and I'm sure many others, are not comfortable with.

If you want to back it then go nuts and good luck but I didn't buy into 3D TV and I won't be buying into this either.

My apologies - you gave up very early in the game, but you were complaining that it didn't have save points to make it easier for you when did.


Many a poor game has been given a high critical reception? Can you read the list out? It's on that piece of paper just to your left:



Remember - VR is a fad because you've tried it all and tried it extensively. Just like you tried Bloodborne extensively.. and didn't understand that either before dismissing it as being the one out of touch, instead of you. It's the game industry that's wrong. Not you. You studied software at university!

No. I'd honestly had enough at that point and never wanted to play the game again for the rest of my life. .

It could be argued that most pieces of consumer tech are 'gimmicky pieces of crap'. VR is a gimmicky piece of crap to you. However this is not the opinion shared by many, many people who have also tried it. Do you wish for others to be denied the opportunity to enjoy this tech just because you don't like it?

I thought the very point of Bloodborne was that it wasn't representative of the modern games industry. That seems to be why so many of its supporters stand up for it as though it were their only child and despite the fact that it is so fundamentally flawed.

Not at all but what I don't want to be is forced to use it. If it takes off in the way that the hardware vendors want then that's a real possibility unfortunately and would mean that I would just need to give up on games.

I am currently inclined to think that it will go in the same direction as Kinect and the PlayStation Eye though, especially on consoles.

Sorry, what? I was talking both about how VR is being widely supported across the industry, not just the fact that Bloodborne is too and rightly so.


Their only child.. don't you realise saying all these things makes you look silly? You have literally nothing to back up anything you say about the game except your own dogmatic convictions. Meanwhile, it's clear that by any other metric in the world, it's a great game and you not liking it isn't any proof otherwise.

It seems a tad far-fetched to think that developers would focus solely on VR games and abandon traditional ones. VR isn't going to be suitable for everyone, or indeed every type of game. But the tech for it will only improve, and its scope isn't just limited to games.
I'd bet my life savings that it's here to stay in one form or another. Actually..fancy a bet :smiley:?

Bloodborne isn't supported by the industry, it's supported by critics. If it was supported by the industry then more games would be ripping it off (which they're not). If you notice it didn't win anything at the recent GDC awards for example and it is presently only up for 1 BAFTA nomination whereas MGSV, another Japanese game, is up for 4.

If it truly was such a great game then it would be far more popular within its own industry. Awards given by gaming media publications are usually influenced heavily by their readership. E.g. it makes sense that Eurogamer awarded it game of the year because their forums tend to be largely populated by the UK hardcore gaming crowd.

I actually agree with you but that is also why it will largely fail. To produce AAA console games in 2016 costs a fortune and the optimisation required to get something running at the compulsory 60 frames on the PS4 headset is apparently still a major technical challenge. If the publishers don't see the potential for massive returns on their investment then they are likely to abandon VR in the same way that they did with Kinect.

So we can have a bet if you want but I think we'll ultimately be betting on the same side. :laughing:

Utter nonsense. If you click on the link I gave you in that sentence you'll see what I meant when I said that but other studios ripping off a game isn't proof it's supported by the industry! Bloodborne is a highly unusual and original title that very few studios are able to imitate - this is further proven by the Dark Souls series, which you of course know is from the same studio, is hugely popular and is very, very similar. Nevertheless, if that's the proof you need, its mechanics are popping up in more and more titles.

As for awards, we're not debating whether it's the best game ever and nor does it not winning awards at any recent ceremonies (regardless of the fact it was released last March) prove that it isn't an excellent game - which it is, as shown by not just the metrics that matter but indeed all the ones there are: Sales, critical reviews and consumer reviews. Or indeed, award nominations as can be seen here. For your final, flimsy point - gaming publications are reflective, as you say, of gamers - and even if they were heavily influenced by their readership instead of what they thought themselves, then it is, indeed, a game that gamers love.

Your definition of a good title therefore seems to be one that doesn't sell very well, that critics don't like, that players don't like, that wins every award going as long as it isn't from a gaming media publication but most importantly one that you think it's well designed. I'd call you a troll but I know you honestly believe everything you're saying and for that you have my pity.

I'll take that bet too - £500 that in three years time, VR will be an established platform that's here to stay.

Such as?


I think there were plenty of great games last year. The Witcher 3 probably being the cream of the crop and the likes of Fallout 4, Until Dawn, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Her Story, Rocket League and MGS V being other examples (although I personally didn't care for MGS V all that much). I just think that Bloodborne was not an example of a good game and therefore has no place listed among those that I just mentioned.

I really, really hope that you're wrong. Fortunately I just can't see how it will take off all that well on the PS4. The PS4 has become the console of choice for the casual this time around and I can't imagine most of them being willing or able to fork out more for an accessory than they paid for the console in the first place.

It will probably do better on PC but it will mostly get abused by indie YouTuber-bait horror crap and will eventually become the subject of ridicule. In order for the major AAA publishers to start adopting something like that, the established user base really has to be there and PC gaming's most popular markets these days are the ones where people generally can't afford to fork out £600 on a headset.

Google is my friend and saved me the trouble. Since I've answered that straight away, can you now provide me the list I asked for earlier? It was when you said:

"And many a poor game has been given a high critical reception, and in particular, a higher user review score in the past"


All of those are recognised as being good games (except for Until Dawn, which scored lower, although personally I hated it when I played it - however, I wouldn't take it away as being good from anyone who didn't) according to any metric you can show me. Bloodborne is as well and better than most of those. I'll say it as many times as you need to hear it: It's a great game by any metric that exists which anyone takes remotely seriously and your blinkered opinion isn't ever going to be one of them.

Nonsense. The shooter crowd has moved to PS4 and is one of the most hardcore around. Selling millions upon millions doesn't make it casual, just popular.

Now, are you going to take my bet?

That list you just provided (if it's even a list) just includes a bunch of forthcoming hack and slash games, many of which most people don't actually know much about yet.

CoD: Ghosts is a good example of a crap game that got good reviews (Gamespot 8/10, IGN 8.8/10). The user reviews for it were actually far lower and it faced a lot of criticism. Bloodborne reviewed well with the critics for different reasons but is fundamentally still a poor game as far as I'm concerned.

What exactly do you want to bet? That PlayStation VR won't fail and that sales will get close to 1:1 for every console sold? Because that's what it will need to be if you are ever going to see any kind of future in an addon like that.

Let's not forget there was a good reason why MS tried to make Kinect a mandatory addon for the XB1. Let's also not forget that the vast majority of games today are multi-platform and you can't tailor a multi-platform game around VR for the PS4 because you will risk isolating the XB1 and PC versions if you do. Unless the sales hit close to 1:1, Sony are also far less likely to push VR in the PS4 exclusives because all that would lead to is an overall loss in sales.

Irrelevant, for the reasons I've already provided. Are you also denying the sales, acclaim and popularity of the Dark Souls series? Where Dark Souls is one of the highest, most adored games of recent generations that I could possibly name? I need to ask you this directly because you have this amazing ability to ignore the logic in virtually anything that's put to you.


Those reviews are above the Metacritic average and I'm not going through the user reviews to find out what the problem with it was - user reviews, in isolation, are worthless. However, when all the metrics are pointing in the same direction, you need to make a very strong case for the opposite and you haven't ever made it for Bloodborne.

Now let's say I'm generous and take your point regardless. That's one game. Where's the many you spoke of?

Yes..


..no, because that's ridiculous. Games don't fail if they don't have a 1:1 tie ratio (which no game ever has) and neither is the standard the same for peripherals. PS VR is for a segment of PS4 users. Not most of them. Not the majority. The segment of gamers who want VR but who don't own a high-powered PC.

Now, if you'd like to make a serious bet actually based in reality (hoho!) then put it on the table.


Did hundreds of companies develop for Kinect and did tens of companies across different platforms push their own version of Kinect then? No? So it's a completely different case study which isn't comparable. Kinect was, basically, crap and never had any real gaming potential. The VR market is very different for any number of reasons. As for the argument about tailoring games, another that you're sticking to for validation, tell me about Rez Infinite - this is a game that's being pushed as a VR title but doesn't need VR for it. And it works very well in VR. Please tell me why VR support isn't also an option for lots of games and it needs to be an either/or option like you insist.

That was one game off the top of my head. I didn't just Google something like you did but FFXIII is another modern example if you really need one.

For someone who puts so much stock in proof, you have proven nothing as well. Those games on that list probably have far more in common with Devil May Cry or a Goichi Suda game than they do with Bloodborne.

Incidentally, I have only played Demon's Souls and a small amount of Dark Souls 1. I haven't played Dark Souls 2 at all. I disliked both of them but not to the extent that I disliked Bloodborne and I would say that based on what I played of both, Demon's Souls was an infinitely better made game than Bloodborne.

The Kinect technology has been used to aid medical research among other things so I think to describe it as 'crap' is a bit strong really.

OK, let's try this differently. Please name another console peripheral accessory that cost above £100 and didn't fail (and before you try to get clever, the original PlayStation doesn't count).

Sorry, is it wrong to Google? What it's like living in your head where you have very different rules for everything than everyone else (in addition to "something is good because I say it is," of course)? Is it difficult for you?

And I asked for a list, not one game. By what measure is FFXIII not a good game despite good reviews? I don't play the Final Fantasy games so I genuinely don't know much about it - but notice, however, that I accept that doesn't make me qualified to know whether it's good or not, which is a lesson I hope one day you'll learn.


Probably? Oh, so you've no idea then. Anyway regardless, whether it's been "ripped off" much or not changes nothing - like I've already said, Dark Souls is indisputably a fantastic game and very similar to Bloodborne. All the metrics are the same or similar. Demon's Souls included. They even have the same or similar flaws. Do you dispute their otherwise-universal excellence despite your lack of knowledge about them?

The difference is that you haven't played FFXIII but have played Bloodborne. I've, unfortunately, played both.

The Souls series is not universally excellent. Far from it in fact. From Software games are usually released full of bugs with extensive loading times and poor design but because they're difficult people like to pretend that they like them. They're that turd stain on the floor of today's games industry that for some reason every 'hardcore' gamer wants to wait in line to polish just in case they risk not looking like one of the cool kids.

Crap for gaming, which is obviously entirely what we're discussing.

No, the original PlayStation doesn't count because it wasn't an accessory despite its development heritage and you'd have to be pretty stupid to bring it up in that regard.

Anyway to answer your question, I can't name one and crucially I don't need to name one, for this very reason: VR is not an accessory. It's unprecedented. It's a platform itself across the various existing hardware it works in conjunction with (PS4, PC and mobile). Sony are using the PS4 to enable VR on their platform. Some games will be cross-platform, others will be exclusive.

The kind of question you'd be better posing is asking why VCRs or games consoles would ever become popular as an extra box when TVs already give you entertainment?

Is it a device that connects to a pre-existing piece of hardware and is designed to increase or aid it's central feature set?

Yes?

It's an accessory. By its very nature alone, it's an accessory.

I don't care whether you've played them or not. I asked you for proof it wasn't a good game despite every other metric saying it was. How does saying you've played FFXIII show anything? I've already repeatedly shown how your opinion on its own counts for absolutely nothing credible.


So basically you're saying I don't know what I like, I'm pretending to like these games along with literally millions of other people and/or I don't know when I'm enjoying myself. Astounding.

Now, the Dark Souls 3 reviews are only just around the corner and assuming the game is even half as good as its predecessors, you're going to have your work cut out to keep your little fantasy world going as well as to avoid all gaming media while the rest of us are actually enjoying ourselves!

:laughing:

Actually I have already read a Dark Souls 3 review, albeit in a different language. It did very well but I won't be buying it for obvious reasons. Fool me once, shame on me....

I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm saying that people persevere with From Software games to look cool. I actually know people who have admitted that.

FFXIII had a very mixed reception and incidentally you haven't "repeatedly shown" a damn thing.

No. And I would say that your inability to get beyond semantics is the reason why you can't understand that this is a real evolution point, but I know that it's by far not your only mental block.

The first returned definition of an accessory is:

"a thing which can be added to something else in order to make it more useful, versatile, or attractive."

But with VR, that's not the case. For VR, the PS4 powers the immersion provided by the headset just as much as the VR adds abilities to the PS4. If not more so. Yes, you need a PS4 for PSVR. But you also need PSVR for VR on the PS4. Combined, they are part of a new platform which is about to launch across a range of existing platforms already in place and it's only the start. What we have now won't be its final form by any means and it won't replace gaming on 2D screens either. But is it going away? No. No, it isn't. And it's a shame you can't structure your opposition to it in a question you'd put money on it because I'd like to make some money on it in a few year's time.

Oh really? What did the review say? And if it was positive, did you point out to the reader that you know gaming tastes (their own, and the industry) better than them? Or not because it's tosh?

And how many people (note the plural) do you know who've admitted that? Is it millions?

Finally, please show me the mixed reception for FFXIII.

It said it was good. It didn't get a perfect score but not far off it. It was a scan of a magazine so there was no opportunity to add feedback.

If you Google FFXIII then you'll see it for yourself.

So still nothing to prove that the Dark Souls series (Bloodborne included) isn't bloody fantastic by any metric that anyone could take seriously, and in fact something that supports it is.

I did Google it. I saw a strong Metacritic and good Steam user reviews.

I still haven't seen a list of the other games you claim to exist, which only further supports the theory that you have been talking absolute nonsense for pages now.

Wow, do you work in SCE PR or something? Because that is a lot of a nonsensical marketing speak that you just produced right there? You might want to consider a change in career if you're not.


That sounds like the perfect description of both PlayStation VR, Samsung Gear VR and the Steam VR helmet IMHO, assuming that the concept of VR appeals to you in that way. In order for it not to be an accessory, it would need to be a standalone self-functioning product capable of independent operation. Correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK, none of those products are.

Even Amazon say its an accessory.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PlayStation-VR/dp/B00I9WWBCQ

Well to be fair, you didn't actually provide a list either. Just a link of a reddit thread of opinions on games that mostly don't even exist yet.

To describe From Software games as " bloody fantastic" is to ignore their ridiculously low standards of quality control, even if you do think that the gameplay has potential.

And since you seem largely incapable of reading any website other than reddit or metacritic, here you go:

http://kotaku.com/5881121/just-why-exactly-did-final-fantasy-xiii-suck-so-badly

No I don't - but I've tried it and I was also massively cynical at first. The buzz at GDC, which clearly also resonated in the gaming media, has shown me otherwise. So I'm sorry if you're going to resort to essentially calling names to make an argument as well as, again, semantics, but you haven't (again) been able to refute anything material I've said. The fact you're resorting to an Amazon listing to explain the fundamental impact that VR will have is little short of hilarious.

Oh dear, semantics again. Many of those games exist and even if I'd provided it in list form, it wouldn't have made any difference as I've already explained why any other game needing to be inspired by/rip off the mechanics is irrelevant.


Potential. Potential! You are a delight. The games in question are bloody fantastic by every metric we can use, awarded even despite their well-known bugs and occasional frame rate issues. You're unequivocally wrong by every measure that we could rationally use to assess your position.


Wonderful. Truly wonderful - thank you for that article. Now read the first user comment underneath it.

I didn't. I used Amazon to prove that it was an accessory.

Look, if you like it a lot then that's fine but it will no more transform the medium of games than Kinect did and is extremely unlikely to receive anywhere near the same levels of market penetration as the Wii.

Well that brings us back to the big question. You're looking at two professional journalists versus one volunteer contributor. Who do you believe? The answer isn't really as clear cut anymore as it used to be.

Very good price but I think I'll wait till after launch. No point pre-ordering when there's no extras. I'd also like to see how well it gets supported and how it'll compare to Rift. I've already got a gtx970+i7 5820k with 32gb so I'm open to both, most of my gaming is on PC though.

No, no - you use Amazon as your definition of what VR is. You doubt the legitimacy of industry journalists but trust Amazon for your definitions. Wonderful. Still, I'd say it's a platform - and Eurogamer agree.

Of course, if it wasn't already painfully clear how you're out of touch with what everyone else thinks, I should've realised how futile it was to debate anything with you when your benchmark for sales success is the third most successful home console ever. Sigh.

:laughing:

Oculus is closer to a platform than PlayStation VR is because it is independent from any other eco system e.g. Steam. PlayStation VR is tied to the PS4 eco system and is therefore a hardware accessory.

The Wii succeeded because it was cheap, simple and family friendly. It encouraged local family and friend interaction in a market where everyone else was moving towards discouraging it. PlayStation VR meets none of those criteria. In fact it is the polar opposite of those criteria.

Be sure to let your gaming bible (Amazon!) know when that suddenly changes then and it instantly becomes a platform when available on PC!


Oh it was all those things and it did all those things and the market subsequently also fell off a cliff. However, this is all also entirely irrelevant and what I'd like to know is why you think that it's valid to assess a product against the criteria for a completely different market than the one its aimed at.

VR will be mass market one day but it's very unlikely to be in the form of the three major headsets releasing this year. I've told you that already but you aren't, like so many other things, able to understand that because you can't tell the difference between any new technology and therefore in your mind X will fail because A and B did.

But then you're also the same person who says "Y is bad because I say so" even when the data is staring you in the face and laughing because you once studied software at university. So really, what's the point? Even when I can (and will) show you sales data in a year or two or even more, you still won't know what you're looking at.

:laughing:

To be honest, some part of me hopes that you're right because giving up games would save me a lot of money and time in the long run.

The fact remains that you're probably wrong though but if you and your ilk want to chuck 350 quid at cack like this then who am I to object.

Incidentally, we both know that I'm smarter than you so its probably best if you don't ever come out with rubbish about me not being able to understand sales figures ever again. It just makes you look silly.

Get a room you two.

Says this:


Fails to understand numerous sources of data over and over and over and thinks that "because I say so!" means anything to anyone else on the planet.

:laughing:

I'd like to say one day you'll realise how little you understand both games and the games market, but you won't, and you're constantly proving why over and over again.

Even before this year is out, millions will be generated from VR headsets that will bring new, valuable and lasting experiences to gamers everywhere that will continue to evolve. Millions of copies of Dark Souls 3 will be played, loved (and likely well-reviewed). And people from both groups will happily crossover and co-exist to push gaming further forward.

And meanwhile you'll be sitting there all on your own, wailing that it's all so unfair, ignorant and miserable and insisting you know better than us all, that it can't be any good, just because you don't like it and just because you don't get it.

:smiley:

We shall see.

​Thank god this waffle has ended!!! :smile:

Anybody still keeping this order or will the Euro make it a no goer

Cancelled mine, but only because I am not convinced VR is going to catch on

I forgot to cancel and now with the Euro so low this will cost me £369 !

I cancelled mine thank god :smiley: