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I think there's a joke in there, not sure what though

Fair enough, part of the concept behind page files is they vary a bit between rigs. Perhaps you have an issue with your SSD, your RAM, your mobo, or some combination.

The majority of page files shouldn't have stuttering issues.

It was static. 4GB.

The pagefile shouldn't be getting accessed... Perhaps you had a dynamic pagefile size? That's really about the only thing I could think of that would do that.

I've ran the system with a pagefile. I get lock ups now and then playing games as the pagefile is being accessed. I disabled it.

Sure sure, I'm just trying to explain why it isn't a knock on 8GB of RAM, it's a knock on running 8GB with no pagefiles. You are losing some proper RAM by running no page file, and it's actually slower...

https://tweakhound.com/2011/10/10/the-windows-7-pagefile-and-running-without-one/

The thing is, you're actually running into a similar issue I experienced with 6GB of RAM ages ago when I used to run no page file. It started to 'just crash' and 'fill up RAM'.

And no page file means no crash dumps.

So you may save 300 milliseconds on shutdown, but because you are forcing all committed RAM to actually *be ram* when committed ram is just a fictional number that applications request at startup... The absolute maximum, you are creating a situation where every single application you open immediately gets the absolute maximum it could ever use.

That's ultimately the point of a pagefile. You avoid committing real ram until it is actually in use.

I've been without one for years, no issues, and if I do (out of memory warnings), I'll install more physical memory.

Right, if you don't have a page file, then the committed is an issue here.

Ihttp://superuser.com/questions/482678/commit-charge-is-100-full-but-physical-memory-is-just-60-when-using-no-page-fi

You kinda want a page file even if you have a lot, or you run into a weird issue (like this!).

Committed in the Task Manager is system virtual address space, not sure where you got VRAM committed from?

I don't have a pagefile!

You maxed out your VRAM committed memory? That again has nothing to do with your in use memory.

You can type words like "agree to disagree" but you can also be plainly wrong too.

Increase your page file to 32GB and rerun the tests. You'll see that your in use memory remains at 5.9GB and your page/committed grows.

I maxed out committed and applications started to crash, not long after uploading the images. I know how the system reacts as I've tested it extensively. We will have to agree to disagree.

Simply because your are allotted space on the VRAM doesn't mean you are using that memory.

You only have 5.9 GB of memory in use, as per your screenshot.

Here's a concise definition of committed memory.

http://superuser.com/questions/836286/window-8-ram-usage-committed-memory


I think you are confusing the allocated page file memory with the RAM that is actually being used. You can ask for a ton of page file, it's not actually used though unless you start paging memory out.

That's not the case here, you are only using 5.9GB.

As you can see, in both screen shots you still have 'Cached' memory. This is RAM windows is holding onto just in case you access it again... It would load the games much quicker if it did it correctly. Since this is a cold start, you wouldn't have other opportunity to fill that cache with other apps. You could load a ton of different things, keep doing it, repeat, and then close it all. Then check your cache, you'll see it nearly maxed out.

Either way, my point is (and maybe I'm misinterpreting you)... You aren't exceeding 8GB of RAM.

I personally have 12GB at the moment, and I want more, for how I game/surf/keep everything open, I absolutely will benefit from 32GB of RAM. Dual monitors, games loaded with a stream running in the background, while an app ticks away? Yeah, that's my PC.

If I had a single monitor and I closed everything to game? I'd be considering 8GB or 16GB right now, with 16GB as a future proof idea. I would pair 960/380x with 8GB of RAM. 970/390 with 16GB. I think that's my breakpoint on what to buy.

Interesting. What I've just done to see if what you said was correct... Booted cold, loaded usual applications to get commited back to 2.9GB and loaded AC:Syndicate and I now have 9.1GB committed just like the other test I did. I knew this would be the case because the committed dropped after closing both games in my previous test. And then climbed back up as expected.
If this is a cache thing, how come it used the same amount of committed without the 2 games loading before hand? AC:Syndicate is VRAM intensive here, it uses near 3GB, so that's an extra 3GB committed alone. The game is using 3GB memory so that's 6GB. I went from 2.9GB committed to 9.1GB committed, so it's works out almost perfectly.

This shows what's happening. Look at how the memory drops 3GB once I closed the game, but look at the commit charge drop twice the amount.



If we didn't have the committed as an example here you would think AC:Syndicate is using only 3GB of my memory, shown below. Virtual address space is stored either on physical memory and/or pagefile, Windows doesn't care. VRAM usage is allocated in virtual address space, so if I had a Titan X for example and the game used 12GB VRAM (extreme example), that would be 12GB virtual address space allocated alone, AC:Syndicate would be consuming 15GB+ physical memory with virtual address space in my case.

If I had 8GB physical memory and a pagefile, I would be consuming 8GB of it plus 1GB of pagefile in this scenario. Which might not be too bad, but that's not the point here. I'm talking about memory consumption in total which is committed/virtual address space.



Before


After


The X1 and PS4 having unified memory avoids this allocation that would probably make their 8GB memory too small for what they do.

So, what you may notice is that Windows doesn't release the committed ram until it is required again.

So, what that means is on a 16gb ram system, if you load 6gb of games, quit them, load 3 more GB of games, you will then have 9gb of committed ram. In allocated, non allocated, and cached ram. The cached ram in the scenario above can be reallocated freely. This cached ram is considered available, but will be lower priority over non allocated.

So, you essentially are not actively using that 9GB of ram and your system would dynamically reallocate the RAM from the closed games. In your situation, 8GB would be flawless still.

The only situation where you benefit from 16GB is if you actually want to re-use that cached RAM.

So, if you somehow reopened those games in the same state. This wouldn't happen, it would re-request the RAM since you initially closed the game. If you minimized the game, opened a new game. Minimized that game... Opened the 3rd. The first game would then be put in VRAM, requiring you to access the page file when you want to resume.

You could probably tell I was on one last night. Drunk as a skunk hehe. You're right what the specifications should say is 16GB committed RAM on the specifications. However the consumer won't know how much physical RAM they require, so it's a guide. If you have 16GB physical RAM then you're covered, but it doesn't mean you actually need 16GB physical RAM, that's how I see the situation.

I'll reply to this comment as I find memory discussions interesting...

You said Quantum Break and Crysis 3 there, I honestly thought someone got hold of an early release :smile:

I loaded Tomb Raider (not Rise) and Crysis 3 and my commited was up to about 6GB, which isn't much. Task Manager stated just over 4GB but that's not including other committed address space, from the VRAM for example. PC doesn't use unified memory like consoles so you have to account for this.

I closed those games and loaded AC:Syndicate. I'm at over 9GB committed right now so If I had 8GB installed and pagefile, there would be > 1GB pagefile used for the game. This might not be so crucial if the game isn't i/o intensive or the pagefile is on an extremely quick drive like an SSD, but if we're talking about "memory used" alone, the game is using 9GB of it as I don't have a pagefile.
By the way, this is loading the game from 2.9GB committed. 2.9GB to 9.1GB with that one game. I do find the recommended requirements for quantum quite high but the Ultra specifications are with 6/8GB GPU's which means if the games do use up 5GB+ that's an extra 2GB committed. 5GB is going to be seen at 4K, it is already in a few games.

I'm not saying 16GB is the norm nowadays, just that people overlook what's actually been consumed here when talking about memory. Task Manager splits it into a few different things and most only focus on one section of it. Committed is the most important part.

Modded Kerbal Space Program can use more then 16 GB comfortably.

You have given facts that go against you lol
So who has the less brain cells?
Keep rocking your 4gb or 8gb of ddr3 as u don't have a clue what on earth u are talking about.
Damage control :smile:

I've presented more facts than you have braincells young chap :smiley:

This is why I like rev6 as he actually has a clue what he is talking about.
I have listened to him and he is right about most things.

Damage control
Must back pedal
I do not know what I'm saying
980ti loses to 390x
Titian X loses to 390x
9gb goes into 8gb
Damage control lol
Stop talking trash seriously u look silly as u clearly don't have a clue :smirk:

They would probably start getting low memory warnings and the system could become unstable.
Windows doesn't care where virtual address space is stored just don't run out of space for it.

I don't need to look at your information as I have a top PC and I know what it uses.
Your going on about dx12 benches and guess what again I have benched it with the fury and guess what it did the unthinkable for a nvidia fan boy.
Titian X is in meltdown lol

Technically, metaphysicially or physically?

What do you think would happen if the paging file was disabled on that system?

Yep 16gb is now required but not essential

I did Maths at school and 9 isn't 16. I think everyone else can decide whose presenting the facts :smiley:

Also Rise of the Tomb Raider uses 4.5GB RAM >

http://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-pc-performance-analysis/

Here's Quantum Break on max settings running together with Crysis 3 at the same time on max settings and only using 9.5GB RAM >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_17N6H2gc

Here is it again as you might have missed it >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_17N6H2gc

Just one more time >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_17N6H2gc

and here's the Rise of the Tomb Raider link again because you will have definitely missed that >

http://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-pc-performance-analysis/

Lastly here is a definition of the word Fact >
fact
fakt/Submit
noun
a thing that is known or proved to be true.
"the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas"
synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty, factuality, certitude; More
information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
"even the most inventive journalism peters out without facts, and in this case there were no facts"
synonyms: detail, piece of information, particular, item, specific, element, point, factor, feature, characteristic, respect, ingredient, attribute, circumstance, consideration, aspect, facet; More
used to refer to a particular situation under discussion.
noun: the fact that

I have no audio but glancing at the video, at 1:50, their system is using over 15GB committed and seeing they have 16GB physical memory and Windows 10, the 4GB pagefile they have assigned won't be being used yet. They're technically using 15GB RAM.
2 games though :smile:

You call it stupid maybe but I'm quite well off so it's nothing to me and I enjoy a God like PC :stuck_out_tongue:

You absolutely do not read anything that is presented to you in any detail do you. That's obvious. Go watch the YouTube video. So what if they recommend 16GB, have you seen real world examples? No of course you haven't, you didn't even do me the courtesy of looking at the evidence I presented. I recommend you put your hand in a fire will you do that? Think before you do!

Oh also rise of the tomb raider used 9gb of ram so yeah your talking nonsense as I just completed the game last week :laughing:

Quantum break recommend 16gb go look and yes new games do benefit from 16gb. Not much but they do and also faster ram aswell

I have this exact ram bought it cheaper last year but having 32gb is awesome. 16gb is what u need now really as games are taking advantage of it. 32 gb is overkill but why not :smile:

When the cost of buying extra should be pennies? :wink:

There's little point going from 8gb to 16gb unless you're doing video editing etc.
http://www.techspot.com/article/1043-8gb-vs-16gb-ram/page3.html

Can this be used to run the division on pc? If so it's cold from me. Sorry.

the fun police are out in force today...