Note: this deal is for 32GB, not the base 16GB version used by people who only use phones for texting and selfies.

16gb is plenty for people that know what they're doing with phones and don't fill them with junk ;-)

How can you NOT vote this hot?
When Nexus 6 barely fits in your hand (unless you are a giant) or
Samsung which has laggy touchwizt **** and a screen that is oversaturated (read: fake colours)?

May I add that this thread should be cold because it's not an iPhone? ROFLOL.

There you go, this site is getting worse because of the many people who turn these DEALS discussion into debating which phone is better. I'm so sick of having to skip through the many rubbish comments and read the ones that are really useful.

If you find a better deal, create another thread and you win. If you are here to debate which phone is better than what, then you are better off going to other forums to prove your point. This is after all a DEALS website.

Can I compare prices of apples in Aldi to your oranges in Tesco? Shxt, I have just gone off topic but who cares anyway!

G4 has to be best bang for buck at the moment

Isn't the Moto X Style a better buy at this price?

Yes I would but the only phone I've owned that has impressive battery life is the iPhone 6+ can get almost 2 days but really until it is a full week 1 or 1 and most of another day means may as well charge every night anyway... This will do a full day.

True, although some are better than this, though based on what I've read I'm sure it would be fine for me. Sadly they haven't made any giant leap forward with batteries, they have improved, but then the handsets are constantly needing more juice.

So my phone has finally just died....this afternoon i downloaded at least 15 albums via google play music and stream over an hour of music via bluetooth...i was also using it for a few youtube videos and several long hangouts chats+ taking photos....i think 6:30am to 8:10pm under heavy usage is pretty good going!

​

Sad fact is that no phones really have impressive battery life, amazing really when you consider what these things do these days... yet no one has come up with a way to extend battery life!

Seems a bit odd to me, I've looked at a lot of reviews and while nobody is terribly impressed with the battery they all seem to agree its average, except for that review.

built in but can be turned off.

​

I would agree.

have you used doze? keen to know more about it. does it have to be activated or is it built in to Marshmallow?

​

thanks mate. I much,much prefer reviews from people actually using handsets rather than review sites.

got nexus 5x serious scrolling or screen transition lag(txt fading out effect) -- is anybody experiencing the issue???

Something wrong there. Whatever it is - it isn't atrocious. And overnight (8 hours) on receiving mail it dropped just 6%. Which suggests either a faulty demo unit and/or had some powersucking app running.

I also disagree with the author on the charging - I am decidedly unimpressed with the 'lightening' charge. It might be faster than my old Nexus 4 but not of my Moto G. Started at 19% and still only 92% after 90 minutes.

Yeah I read that review too. I've been using phone since 6:30 am. So far I use it none stop for three of those hours watching video and browsing web. I have four email addresses two push and two hourly. I've left alone for an hour and on 74% at the moment. I'd say that's ok after three hours of none stop use and about an hour sat doing nothing. I'll let you know when it dies!

Isn't the Moto X Style a better buy at this price?

If I'm recording, I'm probably doing something interesting, which means I'm not at home. Holidays, trips etc. Having to dump your phone's memory every couple of days would become very tedious. I once had a 16gb Nexus 4, and that was irritating as heck. I can only imagine it would be miserable with today's app and media sizes.

Apparently, Nexus 5X disappeared from John Lewis website, how very strange.

CPW will have black colour in stock 27/10 according to website

You'd move that 4k captured footage off the phone though surely?
This phone can't display at 4k so keeping it on the memory is a waste.

​

here you go

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/google-nexus-5x-review/

the comments in here were a little worrying.


i tend to stay away from the main review sites as i have found they have their own agendas and have been burned before

I don't see why anyone would need more than 8GB in a phone. What are you storing?

I just checked my OnePlus One and I have 16gb of apps, app-data and cache. I don't even play games. So with no music, photos or videos - just on phone essentials - 16gb would be too low.

It seems fine to me! Been installing and setting up so tomorrow will be first proper day... The doze feature made a massive difference to my Nexus 6 so hope it will here too!

Not sure what reviews you have been reading or watching? I've been watching and reading loads and only two have said that and probably use an iPhone 6+ to which everything is rubbish except Moto X Play or droid turbo which we didn't get in UK

Looks like cpw and john lewis are out of stock in black now. giffgaff have it in stock at £359 if anyone wants it asap.

Just picked one up from carphone warehouse 32gb in egg blue. For reference the black is more of a dark grey then nexus 5 black. I have lots of phones tablets etc...I will miss not having all my music on it but bar wireless charging and stereo speakers this is a great value for money phone for me. Have nexus 6 and iPhone 6 and 6+. Both 6 plus and N6 too big as day to day phone but great for media player and iPhone 6 is a great phone size wise but a total slip magnet with anything but silicone official case. This sticks in hand and has the fingerprint reader which I miss so much from iPhone and stock android. In short it fills a hole that no other normal size phone bar maybe z5 compact does but that is 720p. Looking forward to one handed phone use without worrying about dropping it or having a case!

I was all set to upgrade my 32gb Nexus 5 to one of these, then Android 6 landed, and my major gripe with my Nexus 5 (the battery life - or lack of!) was suddenly resolved. I'm seeing in the region of another 6-12 hours battery life :-) For me it's the best OS upgrade I've ever had on any device (I include those I've had on my iPad in that).

I just got this phone (been an iPhone user for the past 6 years) and was just wondering if there's something wrong with the Facebook app. It doesn't zoom in on pictures nearly as far the iPhone app. Is this a bug?

good price but ive opted for the g4, removable battery and sd card is a must

cold from me G4 is far better value.

Just recorded a minute of 4k on mine and it used up 304mb so you'd get about 12 minutes if you are reckoning 4gb spare room

Are you commenting on the same thing?

Yes, its the international version H959, bought it from eGlobal. Took a bit of a risk with warranty but wanted the 32GB of onboard storage

No, 16GB is a completely pointless on a phone like this.

If you record in 4k, or 1080p slow-mo then you are taking up about 500mb per minute. With a few apps and games, a few music albums atop the system files on the phone, 16gb would give you enough space to shot about 8 minutes of footage.

That just isn't enough.

If you aren't recording in 4k or 1080p slow-mo, then you're wasting your money buying this phone. Buy a Nexus 5 2013 on eBay and save another £200.

I never thought I'd say this but, goodbye Nexus, hello iPhone.

Since the Nexus 5, Google has really taken the line downhill. The Nexus 6 was frickin huge - yes, I tried it and I didn't get used to it - and it was also overpriced. The latest Nexus 5x is an even bigger joke. No wireless charging. No optical image stabilisation, hugeee ugly bezels (btw only one of the front-facing "speakers" is actually a speaker so there goes that excuse), higher price than the Nexus 5. The Nexus 6p specs wise is better, but still, no wireless charging. Why would you remove that feature from your flagship Google?! Anyway, for those who don't like phablets, the Nexus 9p is still a no-go.

It's like as though Google wants to destroy the Nexus brand.

Was it the Euro or Asian version? I saw the one on ebay for around £210, 32gb version from the US, but it was the Asian one and there might be some warranty issues as LG play hard ball. I played it safe in the end but as I said, compared to the 5x, the Flex 2 is great value at £220 - I've put a 64gb SD card in mine so storage isn't an issue and install Nova and it feels alot like stock android. Battery seems OK too.

John Lewis apparently has none in stock anymore. Coincidence? They've kept all the advertising for it on the site, but killed the link to the page, sounds like a hasty pull down because of a hotukdeal!

Or the Umi Iron, Elephone P8000 etc. The Chinese are coming..they're sharpening up their act and once they start opening warehouses across the EU (some already have) and providing the level of customer service we're used to, Samsung and LG will take a massive hit unless they drop their prices quite dramatically. It may take a few more years but it will happen. The Chinese are clever, remember how Xiaomi poached Hugo Barra from Google 3 years ago and see what he has done for them.

Apple would possibly be insulated to an extent from this onslaught as their fanbois have embraced their entire ecosystem lock, stock and barrel and are fairly price insensitive. We Android fans have little brand loyalty, and the Chinese are very aware of this.

No SD card slot, dead on arrival for me.

^^^^^ What he just said x 2

Personally I feel I have just wasted my time reading through your comment. How is you rant with no supporting facts any better than all the other rants and random conversations that crop up?

The Nexus range is nice, but the price is really quite high.

I'm still happily rocking the Z3 so I'll hold off for an upgrade until next year. However, as a previous owner of a Nexus 5, I have to admit I'm not a fan of the direction Google is heading with the new line up. The N5 was a top end flagship of it's time. The 5X is hitting the mid-range spectrum yet they're around the same price?

Me too, i picked up the 32GB version of the G Flex 2 a few weeks back for £200. Brilliant phone

Difficult to say. Fascination with it means the screen is on a lot more than normal but I'm still awaiting a nano-SIM so it isn't yet a phone. But a day looks good which is the crucial test. AFAIK it takes a few cycles to build up to its maximum capacity.

I think any report is meaningless until you have spent a day travelling in and out of WiFi/3G/4G coverage with tracking on (I'm a cyclist). The Nexus 4 failed that test without a powerpack boost.

Long term Nexus 5 user here . I picked up to LG Flex 2. At £220 it's a great deal. Phone got a rough ride in the early reviews but I'm impressed with mine. Very impressed.

If the Nexus was closer to £250 I would of buckled.

I tried two stores on Monday and it wasn't available.


Google have said any new phones will receive 2 years of support from now on.

On a side note to anyone who owns one... where is the Power Control Setting Widget? I can't seem to find it and it is killing me not being able to turn sync off for email etc at work Also how do you stop the phone vibrating when you press the keys? As the option in settings doesn't seem to work.

LG G4 around £300 from Amazon is a better deal. It looks like the Nexus is still a bit overpriced if you compare it to the LG G4 with option to change the battery and fit extra SD card (I think it's up to 2 TB).

Just received my second OTA update since I picked up the 5X on Monday. While it would be nice if they got everything perfect first time - nobody does. Which is why support is so vital when hacking threats on the Android platform will intensify to exceed even Windows XP and I use it in the field to administer my servers.

My Nexus 4 is still receiving fixes (sadly not a Marshmellow upgrade) after almost 3 years. I expect the same (plus probably Android 7 & 8 ) of the 5X. That's why I chose it above the others which within months will be landfill or a known security risk (as hackers reverse engineer Google's fixes). £299 (16Gb) works out at £100/year which is arguably better value than some alternative deals posted above.

Cold, poorer in spec compared to OnePlus 2 at £300, which i got easily on their website sale, no excuses

seen the reviews and the nexus 5x seems to give off an offset white colour (yellow tint) compared to the 6p which is an absolute superb white balance.. I cant wait to get the 6p on the 30th!!

​ a nexus is pure android.. a moto anything is going to be outdated (software wise) in a couple of months.

is it available instore in CPW, thanks?

​

i tried it in CPW

Not feeling this phone to be honest. Seems expensive compared to other options that have better features. Like others have commented - the build seems a little cheap and 2gb of Ram - though not always essential - doesn't scream cutting edge.

With an 'OK' build, 'ok' camera and price verging on expensive for what it is - the only redeeming feature is the latest android build.

Merely pointing out that not many support Band 20 LTE. You told someone to do their research after he said they don't all support all 4G bands (clearly done his research as he's correct). You don't use O2 or Vodafone, doesn't mean others don't :smiley:

G4 has to be best bang for buck at the moment

​yep I agree, that's why I moved to LG and I've been with Samsung since the original galaxy phone. Also Samsung's most recent strategies seem to mimic Apple's; pay more for less!

exactly right :smiley:

band 20 is only O2 and Vodafone (3 rolling out since Sept this year) so the two worst UK networks use band 20 for 4G (Vodafone and 02) So I'm not to bothered about not having a band 20....I'll be sticking with 3 and EE thanks.

how long ago though? in just the last 6 - 12 months a couple of manufacturers have seriously upped their game
also, the 3 you mentioned are probably the 3 best know cheap **** dodgy ones tbh, certainly thl & doogee anyway
couple of the new Umi's are supposed to be a lot better though

given what I've read about the shoddy build quality, and the apparently appalling battery life of the 5X, I wouldn't hesitate to take a chance on something like the £102 Meizu M2 Note, or Xiaomi Redmi Note 2, for example

​Hardly any work with band 20 mate so his point isnt "mite"

I save all of my media to my home server via Plex and stream everything

Do your research first they do, EE and 3 and seeing those are the two sims I use in my Current Xiaomi phone without issues both able to get 4G it's a rather mute point your trying to make.

​trust me Chinese phone makes STILL HAVE A LONG LONG WAY TO GO! UMI in particular. I should know I've owned few, from umi to thl to doogee. Plagued with warranty issues, build quality, software bugs......

Unlucky if your network doesn't support that band. Guess he's done his research though. My Chinese phone rocks 4g perfectly soundly thanks!

It's a good price for this phone and John Lewis are excellent. However for me I'm going to be ordering a Xiaomi Mi4c...Why? same spec, dual sim, better build quality and less than £200 (voted HOT)

Shame it's plastic and has crap design compared to the 6P.

​but some prefer a smaller size. SD card ain't too big a deal (buggy and slow).

Just received my price match confirmation email, only submitted it an hour ago so very happy!

That was for a Moto Style i priced at Amazon not this Nexus.

By the way 2year warranty are standard on these devices anyway, doesn't matter if CPW or JL

http://selfhelp.carphonewarehouse.com/SelfHelp/request.do?view%28%29=c{79ae2a80-f9f3-11de-da00-000000000000}

How did u get it from bespoke offers? I tried to to put CPW link in there but it said they don't match prices from this retailer?

How can you vote this hot?
You can buy Nexus 6 for £270 or
Samsung Galaxy S6 64Gb £419.99 @ Amazon

I think I've just seen a new low in how shallow people can be-judging someone by the size of their phone storage.

​No quibble replacement for my nexus 5 when 15 months old at cpw.

Come on fish, where's the burn? You should be making that guy reach for the aloe vera!

for me, 16gb isnt enough. Event though I back up my pictures on google photos I still have to remove files etc. pretty regularly. Thats why I have been looking at the Moto X Style as it seems to be a better option that the nexus 5x but some people say it isnt as pure android as i though :/

John Lewis offer their 2-year GUARANTEE, not warranty. Basically, JL don't force you to fight so hard if a product's faulty (CPW probably would). Also, under UK consumer laws, you're actually protected for up to 6 years. The EU took Apple to task over selling AppleCare as an extended warranty and now your rights are clearly explained:

http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

I bought the 5x from CPW on sat, the 16GB one. To replace my trusty Nexus 4!. The 16gb is ample for pics etc, thats why they give you a lead so you can connect to a computer!. This site is starting to follow the age old saying "opinions are like assholes every one has one" Just publish the deal and spare us all the crap

​yes the salesman looked a bit disappointed when I put my wallet away when he said 'no stock mate'

contacted john lewis and they said would not price match as carphone warehouse are out of stock

Yeah I do compare those phones, the LG G4 has a much better camera for example. The Nexus 5X is lower spec than those other phones, they do share the same chipset. You're right about custom ROM and warranty. The LG G4 and S6 are both better spec phones. The N5X runs Marshmallow as stock. I've never been impressed with any Nexus release so far and have owned a Nexus 4 which tbh was hardly an upgrade over the S2 I had before it.

isn't a s6 a better deal at just 30 pounds extra

An extra 16gb of storage for £50 is a cruel joke. Voted hot anyway as this is the cheapest 32gb.

Yeah, but that's not a back-handed comment designed to wind people up.

Thanks but I ain't gonna chance it so paying the 5% extra. There's an alpha version of cm12.1 available on XDA forums

​I'm still on the one plan so my get unlimited data and tethering for £14 a month on three. I also said dozens of apps not a dozen. Also in the 200 region including system apps. Can't say I've ever had to start clearing data from my phone. Have never been in danger of running out. You make lots of assumptions that are mainly incorrect.

​no, I wasn't charged duty or customs either

was thinking on holding on for this when my old nexus 5 went faulty a few months ago, but on balance after seeing the spec and projected price , I decided to go with one plus one , just over £200 . Had it 2 months , so far so good , excellent for the price and 64gb , no probs with it at all

Another Marshmallow evangelist here! For the last few months I've had to charge my Nexus 5 in work without fail but since the update I've been getting home with over 50% battery left. It's crazy how much improved it is, although it probably shows they were doing something very wrong before!

​agree I have 16 and is fine

Did you the 5% import duty insurance?

I have the Mi4c and am very happy with it. Ordered from ibuygou and got it shipped with DHL, arrived within 2 working days from china and with no customs fees, very pleased!

So you're not going to pay the extra 5% in case they charge? They refund you if charged. Did you buy high priced items without being charged?

​I'm quite careful on what I put on my 16gb Galaxy S5 and the phones memory is nearly full and that's with quite a few apps moved onto the SD card along with all my music, videos and films.

I'd want min 32gb next time with the SD card option for all my media.

32gb should be the basic size with the price of memory (I was a 128gb SD card for £35 the other day on here).

I've never paid customs, always ship with DHL.

I've not bought from them before, but they have good reviews:
https://www.ibuygou.com/p-xiaomi-mi4c-qualcomm-snapdragon-808-hexa-core-18ghz-3gb-ram-32gb-rom-7081.html

Well they don't stipulate you have to use their cloud storage, the Drive limit is 15GB and there are many Android users for whom that would not be sufficient. Free usage limits on Dropbox, Box, Amazon Cloud etc are equally restrictive, sometimes worse.
I have a 128GB SD card in my phone, backed up regularly to my NAS, and that contains all my documents, music, movies on the go etc. Haven't tried streaming my own movies from Drive or Dropbox or Box or whatever, but I doubt with the kind of charges one has to pay for 3G/4G bandwidth today streaming movies or even music from Google Music is financially feasible for the majority of us when outside of WiFi.
I travel to the sticks quite often and getting a 2G EDGE signal on my phone is a challenge in these areas, forget about 3G or 4G. For me, local storage on my devices is an absolute must.

I'm guessing they'll wait for the snapdragon 820. Where are you buying your mi 4c from?

Thanks! I will try that too.. Cheers...

​dozens of apps isnt much i use to be into this root and su stuff and had around 200/250 apps plus more Storage is needed for makeing backups of apps and having the 3/4 roms ready to be installed fr Testing to find the best one to use for testing purposes so having a dozen apps and paying for unlimited data then saying why pay extra for a larger Storage doesn't make sense as you are probably paying more for unlimited data than say a 20pounds external sd card of say 64/128 gb and having a cheaper restricted data limit and more Storage is better as it doesn't start slowing down the phone and you don't need to keep erasing data in whatsapp Viber etc if you have a large groups you are actively involved with or use your phone for business purposes in essence these are the modern day computer Laptop and most users use them for that purpose

Do you? Do Apple give you 2 years? My old Nexus 4 came with 1 year. If true thanks for the info.

Worth mentioning you get a 2 year warranty with Carphone also.

Seriously, do we need the storage capacity debate on every one of these deals....

We all have different requirements, all use are phones in different ways, and are all capable of personally deciding how much capacity we need. Just accept that and deal with it....

Anyway, heat given, was tempted with carphonewarehouse for the price but would be wary of their service, so great alternative.

I ordered the black/carbon, so yep.

I was hoping the Mi5 was going to be annouced today, but it seems not. I think I'm going to go with the Mi4c :smiley:

even if CPW showing the Black as preorder, will JL still price match it?

Anyone done the price match? How quick do JL respond? Is it better to purchase first then claim the price match, or do you submit it first?

Eh?

Where do google stipulate you MUST use their storage? They let apps be so heavily integrated, you might aswell forget that Drive even exists.

Do jl have the nexus 6p

Where to get a great Moto X Style deal? This Nexus spec is a joke...

That's good to know, did you ever pay customs and have you ordered yet?

A warning to anyone thinking of buying the Moto X Style... this is NOT pure android. You are NOT guaranteed updates like with the Nexus line. Motorola are not even updating their Moto X from 2014 or the Moto E from 2015 to Marshmallow! There are huge numbers of people turning their back on Motorola after this...
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2991956/android/motorola-marshmallow-meltdown.html

£349 for this? Must be a joke. Buy a flagship phone G4 or S6, can be found around this price, and root and custom ROM, will thrash the pants off this.

I always buy from ibuygou

Nice phone, they should have included micro sd card slot. Let's see what HTC reveals in the next few days.

Looked forward to the 5x since early this year when the leaks started. I was happy to wait for my Nexus 4 upgrade.

Then they announce a phone with mid to high range stats and charge a premium price.

Bought a s6 for £370 instead and couldn't be happier.

Google dropped a clanger.

Most people will keep their phone for 2 years... you'll probably miss Android N next October, and Android O in 2 years time. In less than 12 months people will be kicking themselves for buying another Motorola.

Remember, every time someone buys a non-nexus device, an android upgrade fairy dies.

samsung are the worst with thier version of android, its very bad! I have an LG G2 and even though its decent, it does have a good amount of bloat. mmm....I got a month to decide before my contract runs out but im still tempted with the moto x style :/

Thank you for posting this. I hope to be collecting my 16Gb version from CPW today. Hence you will not be surprised if I take exception to your remark " 16GB version used by people who only use phones for texting and selfies". You are wrong. So wrong.

People who do need lots of local storage (music, videos etc) should seriously look at SD storage phones - not a fixed size 5X. For those of us that actually use their phones for doing data communications rather than storing data the 5X is a very practical device. If you have used a 16Gb Nexus 4 for nearly three years without filling it up - then 16Gb will be OK and I'd rather spend the £50 saving on beer.

Ive had handsets in the past that slowed right down after updating. Ive got the G4 now and im holding off on updates untill i see a couple of months feedback from other users.
The phone flies so dont want that ruined.

​USB OTG is the answer when you go on holiday. I load up a 64gb flash drive with movies to play on my tablet.

Android One made it to the UK but we still have to pay more :stuck_out_tongue:

Security, new features, better UI, optimisations...
Nexus 4 was first released nearly 3 years ago. You expecting the battery life and performance to improve?

The security fixes are fairly important.

It's pretty close to vanilla, but not as pure as Nexus ROMs - TBH you wouldn't suffer from the bloat and skinning like Sammy inflict with TouchWiz.

oh, what really? See Ive seen alot of people saying its pure. Now im conflicted :/

Now there is a damning comment if ever there was one - however, I wholehearted agree that Samsung deserve the boot as often as possible for their poor, poor upgrade roll outs (or total lack of) and tendency to abandon devices very early on...

Not pure android. No guarantee of updates. Moto claim to be good at updates, but they are as bad as Samsung and the rest...
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/10/02/wtf-motorola-marketed-the-moto-e-2015-on-promise-of-updates-is-now-apparently-ending-them-after-219-days/

​Pointless argument. People are different. I'm heavily in to technology and 16gb is fine. I'm sure I get more functionality and potential than most 32 or 64gb users. I've dozens of apps. I have unlimited data so streaming isn't a problem, unlimited photos backup with Google photos, I have a couple of games and have a couple of things to watch if needed. More backed up in free cloud storage with my documents. I still have a few gb left so your reference to not using half the phones functionality is complete rubbish. Pointless paying for more storage if not needed.

Can't tell whether you're trolling - I'll respond regardless... If you're always somewhere with WiFi or mobile data, lucky you. I'm not though, and want to listen to my GBs of music offline.

Hate the way Google are trying to move people to spend on their cloud storage, the same tactic as Apple's. This is not a bad deal for the price, but I'll always prefer a device with expandable storage.

All the mainstream manufacturers in the Android ecosystem such as Google, LG and Samsung will be rethinking their spec and pricing strategies over the next few years when the likes of Xiaomi, Umi, Elephone etc start their onslaught into the EU and US markets while offering better spec'ed phones for almost half the price of the former.

​you point is invalid.... I have 50gb of music on a 16gb phone... Ohhh and i don't use mobile data for that....

Shows 379 in JL, am I missing something?

​It's just a joke... sort of. I save Google play music and Spotify playlists on my device for offline listening, so for me personally, 16GB isn't enough. This phone has all the features I want - except SD expansion - so 32GB is the only option.

Note: this deal is for 32GB, not the base 16GB version used by people who only use phones for texting and selfies - such an odd comment

​Have you been listening to my playlists? :stuck_out_tongue:

Note: this deal is for 32GB, not the base 16GB version used by people who only use phones for texting and selfies.

16gb is plenty for people that know what they're doing with phones and don't fill them with junk ;-)

I was really excited about new nexus but the spec vs price is a let down. Going to give this a miss.

I remember buying the n5 from cpw for £240 and boy did that hold up well.

Based on the list of features alone, maybe. I'm optimistic about the new Nexus camera though! Absolutely love my Moto G, but the photos... :neutral_face:

Good deal. Same price as CPWH with a 2 year warranty. You may now get that with them though as well, unsure.

JL are top notch.