Its not the patients bankrupting the NHS its the many levels of managers and contractors that pay themselves extortiante amounts for ghost contract.

I think as good an idea as this is by the OP, its just the tip of the iceberg in relation to the services of this country being bled dry by idiots. Until the whole system is re-styled, they will never fix any of the problems. Stop giving out jobseekers allowance to people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months. Give them milk and bread vouchers. You want fags and a flat screen TV? Get you rass out to work and earn it like every other tax paying person in the country does. I read the constant sob stories in the press of "but i only want to be treated as an equal" and "i have a right to do what i want with my benefit money" - no you bloody well dont. It isnt your money and you shouldnt have it. Get out and make something for yourself. Sorry for the rant, but it annoys me something chronic when i see these wasters wandering around town when im on my lunch break. I just despair for the next generation, as im 31 now and i see the idiots i went to school with have never grown up and done anything in the world, they have just copied their parents into a life of benefits and handouts. The first politician that promises to fix this problem will get my vote whether they are Tory, Labour, UKIP, or the Monster Raving Looney Party.

When is enough, enough?

​wow i will tell you when enough is enough when over a million people are not using food banks because of sanctions when low paid workers are payied a living wage when the mps do something about tax dodging companys and when the sick and disabled are not being hung out to dry but yeah i am envious of that £60 to £70 aweek they have to live off and by the way i will not be viewing your reply so dont bother

excellent post, one of my big gripes is that our government is paying 30 times the actual price to supply these cheap items on prescription. i go through lots of children's paracetamol and ibuprofen but buy them from home bargains for£1 a bottle. they would cost the nhs maybe 6 times that. wasted money.

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​and what about us Rastafarian, alcoholic, crackheads?

we want equality, when do we want it? meh

And Tic Tacs

Same with VitD. Buy high dose vit D on Amazon.

[quote=thomasleep]Just how does this save the NHS from going bust? you cannot state which brands(or generic) you want to be filled on a prescriptio

This is because the NHS and community pharmacies are two separate entities. A GP prescribes a medication, the pharmacy dispenses it. The NHS pays the pharmacy fees (I think around 90p) for dispensing the item, and they also reimburse them for the cost of the medicine. So if the pharmacy is supplying a paracetamol costing 20p to buy then NHS are having to pay £1.10 to the pharmacy for dispensing that one paracetamol! So if people who get free prescriptions go buy their own paracetamols the NHS will save a lot of money!!

Voting hot whilst in hospital on an iv drip the ultimate irony

What if they are a gluten intolerant vegetarian?

Bread and milk isn't an adequate diet people would become malnourished.

And what about heating and clothing and toilet roll and transport costs to get to job, toothpaste so their teeth don't fall out and shampoo so they are presentable.

What about if you wanting to dictate how a person spends their social security money is fascism.

That people are free to spend the money how they choose has been enshrined in the legislature since it's inception for very good reasons, and the amount granted is tweaked by an uprating system. Indeed it's common practice for benefit documentation to explicitly state that people can spend the money how they see fit.

It's not North Korea yet boys!

Too right

Avoid ibuprofen if you have asthma or gastrointestinal problems.

Nope the NHS was one of the cheapest, most efficient healthcare systems in world in 2014 rated No.1 by the commonwealth fund : http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

The NHS is not being bankrupted it's being underfunded, since the Conservatives took office the UK has cut the percentage of overall budget and now pays 2-3% less per head GDP than our european rivals (9% vs 12-13%), and they refuse to pay more. This is a "by design" bankrupting and Health Minister Jeremy Hunt "wrote the book" on privatising the NHS. Literally, he's co author of "Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party" which calls for the 'denationalisation' of the NHS in favour of an insurance based model.



Aswell as underfunding, conservatives top down reorganisation also introduced expensive internal market systems. They are expensive because a) they introduce swathes of private profiteering into the system b) private companies rarely live up to their tenders and often there's no oversight (eg ATOS) c) all the additional layers of bureaucracy required to manage, review, oversee and administer contracts.

The most filthy part, is the underfunding of social care, causing a knock on effect to NHS hospitals who are now choked up with people who formerly had residential care homes, or home support to go to. Hence the A&E bed blocking crisis this winter.

Another interesting fact is for every £1 invested in the NHS, the treasury sees a return of £1.60. This is because the cost of people being unwell to society (especially lost productivity) outweighs the cost of making them better.

So rather than blaming the well paid managers - like many industries there are a lot - who are very well paid when the NHS was rated No.1 just 3 years ago - blame the Conservative party who are on an ideological mission to give Britain an American style health system.

A system where the only people who benefit are the senior executives of profit making companies, and the very wealthy to whom extremely expensive healthcare makes no difference.

​ very well said that

Good post op! Just a shame the scroungers of Society will carry on abusing the NHS as they are self centred morons who only think of what they can get from the system! Have some heat! !!

Isn't the prescription cost a subsidized flat rate based on your expected income, and the government negotiates prices un-related to the prescription cost?!
One problem with the NHS seems to be the need to reduce internal and external corruption. You'd think it would be priority number one for as they lose billions to it, and spend a very tiny fraction of that on a department to investigate it (similar to HMRC and tax avoidance). I've read many stories of fake work from people and companies working in or for the NHS. The alternative is to privatize it like they do in the states, but that causes millions of people to go without healthcare because they can't afford it or can't get cover.

There's an interesting theoretical and/or literal side to that argument of yours still?.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

DOW!!, hahahahahaha.

That's irony for you?. :-(

Ps.
Galpram 'stuffs' can be found in SAVERS Stores too (and for LESS than £1 too!).

That's double irony right there for you also ..... :-(

Yep!.

I saw that Program too, it was a 1 hour MoneySavingExpert TV Program Special!, if I recall well? (with Martin Lewis).

It was on last month sometime?.

And was VERY GOOD TOO!. :-)

There was a TV program on recently about medicines can't remember which Chanel, anyway there are some codes on the back of these medicines which are common to branded as well as the cheaper ones telling you the medicines are same regardless of costs. So cheaper is the same as buying the more expensive brands. Which I do.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/03/do-branded-painkillers-work-better-than-cheaper-generic-ones-iboprofen-nurofen

Other facilities ? they're all slowing disappearing due to endless cutbacks from this **** government that shows no remorse whatsoever at the daily deaths that its lack of funding causes
.

Save the NHS from bankruptcy .....with a government focused on selling it off to the private sector to line its own pockets I don't think that there's much chance of that happening.

I Blame flip flops!

... "Tesco have 

Cold & Flu max strength capsules X 16 for £1.50 -..."

These are made by Galpram and can be commonly found in poundland etc.

The quality of GPs vary markedly but I have to say most of the GPs I've met are in the job trying their hardest to improve patients quality of life. The GPs at my surgery qualified before salaries took off. I'm pretty sure looking up peoples bums, would come second to being a hedge fund manager, as a career choice if it was all about the dosh.

I'm fortunate to live in a country where healthcare is free at the point of access - I never take that for granted and recently wrote a letter of thanks to my GP because of her enduring support.

So no sense of entitlement - but I believe in socialised healthcare and it was working very well in the UK until recently and rated . So please tell me Dr, from your point of view what is the most productive thing members of the public can do, actively, to curtail the asset stripping and privatisation of the NHS by this government?

Quite.

aà

NHS getting over charged with generics... someone's on the payroll. we shouldn't have to but let's do this​

Nhs needs to buy some, send it to everyone and fire all the doctors ( unnecessary expense anyway)

​Education.... Education..... Education. The uneducated need to be more aware of other facilities like pharmacies and minor treatment centres to get treatment rather than pitching up at ED for stupid stuff.

The issue is not paying £8.20 for paracetamol on prescription. It's when you are discharged from hospital say after a minor surgical procedure and medications like paracetamol are given to you for free. It costs the NHS 40 times what it costs you to buy it yourself from the supermarket so if you have it at home then refuse it (paracetamol/ibuprofen) from health care professionals. Really the government should get a grip on the pharmaceutical companies for allowing them to charge it.

You could save the NHS a thousand times more by eating more fruit and veg and doing exercise everyday. :man:

​The NHS pays pharmacies only £2.19 for a box of 100 Paracetamol. These random figures being pulled out from where the sun don't shine shows a lack of how the system works. Yes cutting back on Paracetamol prescribing may save a few pennies for the NHS however it is like comparing a crater hole being filled with a spade, and a very small one at that.

I will tweet lloyds and tell them that they are crooks!

​At last.....a post that makes sense.

For Brexit Voters, forget this and go just get the horse in the field by your house to give you a friendly lick on your forehead.

These pills were made by those "experts" you seem to hate...

I used to work in pharmacy and I can guarantee you that isn't where the money goes. It all goes to a manufacturer. In a huge amount of cases, the pharmacy doesn't even recover the cost of ordering the medicine in.

That, and the £8.20 charge goes back into the NHS. That's not pharmacy money. They don't get to keep that. The £8.20 fee is a contribution to the NHS, irrespective of the type of item - i.e., you get an inhaler that costs the pharmacy £90, or that pack of paracetamol, for the same price.

People buying cheap medication - when they can afford it - is a good thing. It won't save the NHS, but it's a damn good start.

Yes you are right. Still we should do what we can, one party will fund it properly and the other won't which is what it comes down to.

People need to eat healthier and do more exercise...the number of overweight people is shocking

I agree 100% ​

How about NHS staff getting paid full sick pay.

drugs produced for pennies sold for 8.20 is probably what's propping up the nhs.

I didn't say labour was the other option to be fair. Although I would think labour would be a bit tougher on millionaires and corporations who don't pay their share. Lets face it, the NHS has a lack of investment due to our government leaking money to the big boys in order to keep them happy.

That's laughable. The NHS in wales is in crisis and it's labour assembly government who decided that everyone should have free prescriptions, which is totally irresponsible!

The NHS should start charging for prescriptions in Wales. People are taking advantage, I've seen people get sudocrem, cotton wool and other stuff for free, not just medication. It's ridiculous.
They should at least charge a minimum fee.

NHS is broke & needs ripping up & restarting, not pumping money into a black hole in trying to fix it.
Gov. should give people an optional NI discount in return they take out a private policy to help take the stress off.
NHS patient treatment is fantastic once you get it, however there is to much pressure on GP's at the point of service.
Mental Health (this includes people suffering from Stress or need general counselling, etc.) has a lot to do with it & is an area that needs the biggest injection of cash with proper trained people. As it is, a lot just rock up at GP & unload their problems on them! I am lucky as we can see our GP same day, however Patients are screened to see if they do need an appointment or not.

Another option is change the way the NHS treat health issues. IE. I was eventually diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. It took nearly 2 yrs before I actually got insulin. I suffered bells palsy then huge loss of weight, endless neural pain eventually resulting in severe nerve damage, muscle wastage and cataracts in both eyes - result I was paralyzed and blind. I had to go private for cataract surgery as there was over a year waiting time through NHS but the real issue was down to the typical "see you in 2 - 3 months" appointment system as when you are ill without treatment or lets try this pill things quickly get worse and worse which results in more appointments and treatments with other doctors.
I ended up being stuck in a wheelchair for nearly 10 years and during this period I suffered from bacterial Keratitis while have treatment on my eyes and even though diagnosed I was sent home with steroid drops - result lost sight in 1 eye within 3 days and severely damaged cornea in other - because it was a Sunday. But all this started because they didn't treat my type 1 diabetes in a proper time frame so as not to cause further issues as well as incur the NHS a lot more money.

Thanks for posting OP.

Cracking deal! Voted HOT, HOT, HOT!

Unless you work in the NHS and understand the funding mechanisms I don't think you can truly appreciate the gravity of the current situation. If you can, read some STPs to get a feel for what we need to do over the next 5 years. One quick example in a small area is 'save £270 million, work together better and hope for a £65 million deficit at the end - best case scenario'. The NHS is imploding, and has been for a considerable amount of time. No amount of reorganisation (along the common cycle of centralisation/decentralisation) will fix it. It is an outdated social healthcare model that has no chance of ever working with the current funding mechanisms. You want a fully functioning NHS like you have grown to expect? Then you need to pay for it, either through more taxation (which is politically too difficult to take on and no one will want to do it), privatisation, or social health insurance more like mainland Europe.

I certainly don't believe the Western worlds economic crash was all to do with Labour, that was as large a lie sold by Cameron as those sold by Farage, Johnson, Duncan-Smith & Gove earlier this year. What I meant was that switching government would possibly prompt another reshuffle, and those are incredibly costly to the NHS. Politicians do not understand that reorganising such a large organisation takes years, and the drop in productivity whilst people work on changing how something is organised is enormous.

Sample extrapolation still has to reach significance. You will find that the majority of statistics out there are based on some form of sample because no-one has time to collect a millions of datapoints from millions of people. Unless the datapoints are already recorded for some reason (e.g. disease) the stats are based on a sample.

I would say it is that simple unless you believe that the 2008 crash, originating in the USA housing market, was Labour's fault...

Total and utter, ignorant balderdash. My wife came to the UK 6 years ago to work in medical research and in setting up collaborations with universities around the world. In bringing high fee-paying foreign students into this country, she's literally brought millions of pounds into the UK economy. She came on the relevant work visa, and we married two years ago. Immigration rules means she needs to be earning over 30-odd grand a year to remain here, until she completes the 5 year 'spouse visa' pathway. She's brought more money into this country than most people will earn in a lifetime. And yet you think she shouldn't be entitled to access NHS services because her passport isn't a UK one yet? In the relatively short time she's been here, she's brought in more money than you or I will probably earn in our lifetimes. And bear in mind that she's also paying tax and NI, plus spending money in this country, so is contributing financially to this country in a huge way when all said and done. Think on.

It's not that simple though. Granted 2004-10 saw a real upturn in NHS fortunes, going back to Labour now would probably be just as much bad news as it is with the Tories, just in different ways. What we really need is the NHS to be removed from political interference and its structure to be built around what is best for patients, not what is best for Whitehall.

Then she ends up at A&E costing the system a whole lot more. Good call by the GP IMO.

At least you're acknowledging they are, in fact, statistics - that's progress. But you haven't explained how they are being manipulated, nor offered a counter argument backed up with any evidence.

There are stats which are based on absolute fact, and then there are sample statistics. These are easily manipulated. You know this, but fail to acknowledge it because it doesn't suit your argument to do so. So please, feel free to continue to be condescending. It's all you have left.

At this stage you're arguing that statistics aren't actually statistics because you don't agree with them. I'm not sure how I can address that without condescension, sorry.

Condescension.....good counter argument.

I understand perfectly how statistics work, and I also understand how they are manipulated by governments, police forces, businesses etc. You seem to be in denial that this happens.

I don't think you understand how statistics work.

Sure. According to the very latest figures by the Office of National Statistics (as per end Q3 2016) 69.8% of women were in work. So, by simple mathematics, if 69.8% of women are working then 30.2% of women are not working (69.8% + 30.2% = 100%)

Link: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/dec2016

If 57% of Pakistani women do not work, this puts them well over the UK's National average of 30.2%. In fact, it would seem that twice as many Pakistani women stay at home when compared to the national average.

There could be many reasons for this - it could be cultural, male oppression, lack of education plus a myriad of other reasons. Equally, according to the most recent census data, 22% of Muslim women say they don’t speak English or don’t speak it well - which presumably restricts their employment options (Source: https://fullfact.org/immigration/22-muslim-women-say-they-dont-speak-english-or-dont-speak-it-well/ )

So, those are the facts and it's absolutely nothing to do with "xenophobia". You may not like them or agree with them, but nonetheless they are the facts.

HTH :wink:

You are moving backwards in our debate and are repeating points I have already addressed - not responding to my responses but pretty much ignoring them.

Also it's a bit rich for you to ask me what my plan is when I've been asking you for a while now what you mean by "complete decentralization". I still have no idea what your idea of "independent units" actually looks like, other than their qualities: fraud free, autonomic, minimally bureaucratic etc etc...

For reference, it would be to go after evaded taxes and restore social care funding which will already solve the majority of its financial issues, and then reassess there. There's always been fraud but you forget that the NHS was doing just fine until 2011 or so.

You know I don't actually disagree with you that we should go after fraud and create a more transparent structure, just that it's not the main reason for its problems and there are more effective things we should do first. I won't be continuing this debate, I don't think there is any point...

Probably because their husbands work? they are called housewives....the fact you singled them out shows your xenophobic side. Do you have figures for white women to hand? or is it JUST Pakistani Women?

It clearly says it's based on a sample, the sample cannot possibly be of those they haven't caught.
Why would any government admit to being inept, which is what they would essentially be doing if they say benefit fraud is high.

...it's a statistic. If you open the PDF, the first thing you read is:

"Fraud and Error in the Benefit System: 2014/15 biannual National Statistics, Great Britain"

A - Explain why they can't?

B - Why would the Conservative government, who like to blame poor people for everything, want to under-report the amount of fraud in the system?

ttttd here is even *more* evidence of the "caring officers" within NHS. Over-charge by the drug companies of this sort does not happen without inside knowledge. There has to be colluding with the drug companies for monetary gain. There has got to be corruption within NHS for this to take place.How can this sort of exploitation of NHS have gone on unnoticed? Judge for your-self: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nhs-overcharge-drugs-12000-hypercortisone-tablets-actavis-uk-company-a7478711.html

ttttd you stated, "What does your vision of independent units look like, except for the fantasy of not having any bureaucracy?"

It is not "fantasy" it is called being t-r-a-n-s-p-a-r-e-n-t. There is a *need* for NHS to be transparent. If £120 million goes to fraud there will be *more* in future unless this is stopped and---- stopped for good. The evidence is already there. There has to be checks and balances to put a stop to this ever mounting raids on NHS by the drugs companies and the inside colluding NHS officers. How else can you have this huge price increase rackets going on for years and years? How can nobody notice this within the NHS--- for years and years? This bureaucracy(bureau-crazy) business has got to go and be replaced by a transparent structure.
Luxury leads to poverty. We just can not afford the bureau-crazy in NHS: it has got to go. No fantasy. Just being practical.

If hotukd members want to help the NHS they siuld start by posting so many chocolate and booze deals :man:

Thank you for that nice comment, that made my day! I am feeling sorry for myself and being a bad patient...with tonsillitis of all things! Some may say that's karma though.

Save the NHS from bankruptcy stop voting tories

ttttd you stated, "Who is it that doesn't care about the NHS, other than the current government? Is there anyone actually within the NHS who does not care about the NHS?"

Fraud means that this was an inside job with those in knowledge who stood to gain from it. So those that were involved in fraud were they caring for NHS?
You criticize the current Government. But what is your plan for saving the NHS?
Please present your plan for saving the NHS with references, links.
Thank-you very much!

Your patients are lucky to have you. Keep up the good work.

You could go down that road, and give patients an ultimatum, and sometimes that is appropriate, so if a patient on strong Pain killing medicine says they need something stronger...generally my ears **** up, as they are asking for morphine often, and yes it's appropriate to say no you can't have morphine for your sciatica, or indeed you can't have antibiotics, or you can't have "something to help you sleep".

However the patient who had liquid form antibiotics is 18, she has probably only started coming to the GP alone in the last year or two, maybe less, and me or someone else has to try to maintain a relationship with that patient, and banging my fist off the desk and saying I WILL NOT GIVE YOU THIS MEDICINE and falling out with them them first time I meet them isn't likely to encourage her to come back. So when she catches chlamydia (and says she isn't going back to that GP because I was unpleasant and made her feel bad, and didn't help her) and so remains untreated, spreads it around, and ultimately becomes infertile and costs the NHS thousands, in treating her contacts and treating her complications, because she didn't feel able to come back the cost of those antibiotics may seem insignificant. Or when she develops a mental health problem, and doesn't feel she can talk to me, and that then becomes an enduring mental illness, and she doesn't ask for help, and reaches a point where she can no longer work, lives on benefits and contributes nothing to society.....then the £59 for liquid medication doesn't seem like such a big deal. Whilst I appreciate these are generalisations, I know the patient population well where I work, in an area of deprivation, and those scenarios will very possibly occur, and so sometimes you need to play the long game. Perhaps it doesnt always seem like it, but GPs try hard to maintain a good relationship with patients, because they do want patients to present early, with their STI, their cancer etc. They do want you to come and have your smear, your blood pressure check, your diabetes check, yes for your own health, but in the long run to save the NHS money. So there needs to be a bit of compromise and goodwill to get patients to engage with the healthcare system, which in the long term is cost saving. Unfortunately long gone are the days of the doctor says do this and the patient says....certainly doctor. But if that apparent compromise or giving in as some people seem to see it, turns my patient into a demanding patient, i.e the antibiotics patient thinks if she digs her heels in every time she comes in, she will get what she wants, then that quickly becomes apparent, and at that point you stop it in its tracks.

Sometimes you need to accept that no matter how irritated it makes you feel, seeing patients is not a battle and if is you shouldn't be dealing with them, and sometimes, as in this case, you need to make short term or one off concessions for a longer term gain, which is getting them to engage with you, and patients talk you know, so if that patient goes away satisfied, she may then say to her mum, friend, sister, whatever who has been putting off coming in because she doesn't like going to the doctors, that I was ok, and listened to her, and so that other person may then feel able to come in and tell me about something. And again we might be able to nip something in the bud, and ultimately require less resources.

You might think your GP looks bored or uninterested, but there is a lot going on under there besides just signing your precription. I think most of us are thinking....all the time, what is best for the patient, but also where is this going to go, if I do this or that, we think about the long term too, and how the decisions we make with you/about you are going to pan out, and yes I guess what kind of patient might we turn you into if we do or do not do something. And the issue of cost is not at the top of the list, and I don't think it's appropriate for it to be, otherwise I don't do my job to the best of my ability. But it's there, lurking. It always is.


Oh, and BTW Master G.....I am not a sir, and as you will find, most of the Gp's in the UK are not.

Perhaps if the opinionated experts on here put as much passion about paracetamol into their kids education 2/3's wouldn't be obese sending the bill for diabetes and further complications into the billions, getting smashed and either using up police resources or clogging up A+E most of the week due to binge-drinking.

Paracetamol??
Nice job Mums and Dads of the UK, your killing our NHS!

My doc would never give these on prescription. Ever. Seems strange if it happens...

The main issue with the NHS is funding on a basic level. People want high standards out of low funding. Its pretty much doomed at the current rate. Unless people accept much lower standards given funding.

This is not a stat, it's an estimation based on a sample of fraud found. You're assuming that,
A. The government has any idea how much fraud is actually being carried out. Given the nature of fraud, they're not likely to.
And,
B. That the government would be honest about it even if they did know.

I have an offbeat solution for the NHS crisis though dont think politicians or pharma companies will like it.

NHS floats its own pharma company which manufactures all drugs which have come off patent and only those are allowed on NHS prescriptions. There will still be some drugs which are in patents but will reduce the costs significantly.

NHS has its own Research and development to come out with new drugs which will be tested ethically and not just to line pharma execs pockets.

NHS enjoys excellent reputation worldwide, we start selling all these drugs to the rest of the world and turn our beloved NHS into a self sustaining entity

I have to say I agree with the tablets or nothing. According to the NHS website, self treatment for tonsillitis:

"Over-the-counter painkillers, such as paracetamol and ibuprofen, can help relieve painful symptoms such as a sore throat."

If someone is suffering from tonsilitis and needs pain relief the how can they forget to take painkillers? :confused:

Whoooa..... she insisted on liquid? You are the one prescribing. Just say "tablets or nothing" What's wrong with you? You, sir, appear to be part of the problem.

You have a very strange idea of what's going on with the NHS right now. Who is it that doesn't care about the NHS, other than the current government? Is there anyone actually within the NHS who does not care about the NHS?

"Total decentralization" - what does that even mean? The American system before ACA? I got news for you buddy, it was a bureaucratic nightmare because nothing was organized or co-ordinated...

"Independent units" what on earth are you talking about? What does your vision of independent units look like, except for the fantasy of not having any bureaucracy?

You stated, "Actually the real cost to the NHS (on the scale of billions) is the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which devolved (or decentralized as you put it) financial decisions to the regional level. Now each region has it's own bureaucracy and overhead has shot up".

The NHS system needs a complete overhaul. Retaining regional bureaucracy is not good enough.
Regional level has *also* to be decentralized. Unless there is *total* decentralization and complete *removal* of bureaucracy - incompetence,wastage,fraud will be the norm. They must function as *independent* units with *individual* managers:
"Proprietorship turns sand into gold." A person working on his own account, he can turn sand into gold, but a person working for others' account, that is not possible. He will be slow. He will be slow because the purpose is that "Why shall I work so hard?
What is happening is that nobody cares for NHS because they think that it is not mine so why care? Let the thing go on whatever breaks,steals,wastes not my problem. When something is yours you naturally work harder to make it a success. There *has* to be incentive.

Actually the real cost to the NHS (on the scale of billions) is the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which devolved (or decentralized as you put it) financial decisions to the regional level. Now each region has it's own bureaucracy and overhead has shot up.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-under-coalition-government

£120m is not nothing as you said. But we need to choose which battles we fight. You won't save £120m from cracking down on dodgy dealings because it costs money do crack down. So do you want to save less than £120m or billions?

You need to fix the major problems before you go chasing pennies.

You say, "With a fraud level of £120m, it forms 0.1% of the NHS budget. This is well within acceptable parameters - fixing this won't save the NHS"
Luxury leads to poverty. You have save every penny to make NHS accountable. Agreed, £120 million is not going to save the entire NHS but it *can* create employment opportunity to thousands student nurses. Besides, £120 million is just the tip of the Ice Burg. We do not exactly know how deep is the fraud problem -yet. Lets not forget some MPs who were involved in the expenses scandal for many many many years. Shove this £120 million under the carpet and forget it as insignificant? no. Luxury leads to poverty. The amount of loss means that taxpayers will see increase in taxes.

You are highly critical of Daily Mail. But - it has covered some interesting news also.
This Increase in Tax proposal is mentioned by Jeremy Hunt:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4031336/Jeremy-Hunt-believes-families-money-away-like-pensions.html

My own conviction is:
The sanguine proposal however, would be to *decentralize* the Bureaucratic NHS into smaller units each with responsible individual managers. This is the way forward for the future of NHS. £120 million fraud loss was because of centralized bureaucracy. Luxury leads to poverty.

I wish Brexit article 50 would happen sooner :disappointed:

When I wrote to the Labour Secretary For Work And Pensions, his secretary replied to me saying I could get a loan. Yeah right, when a large profit is being made on a £4000 qualification cost, that could probably be done for under £1000 (the price being made-up based on salary expectations of all of £22K or some lame figure post-qualification)? The problem isn't the benefits part of the system - the problem is PRIVATE PROFIT being made from the parts of the system that USED TO BE taxpayer funded and USED to actually HELP. Then the corrupt politicians LYING that private = efficient!

I was prompted to write because as soon as I got (barely) well-enough to attend a course that (realistically, for once) promised to get me employed, via teaching above-and-beyond the exam, in order to make people GENUINELY-employable for the specific role... their government funding got CUT. By New Labour.

I made the point that they could give £thousands to people in handouts, and WOULD do so, inevitably. That it was a completely-false economy when those people would be paying back more in tax in just 9-12 MONTHS than they would take in benefits in TWO YEARS - IF they could still go on the course. Plus, the reply from the secretary of the Secretary was so patronising - telling me what I already knew, as if I'd been too lazy or stupid to look at all my options already... Guess who the REAL lazy-stupid demographic is?

If this really happens (and I'm not saying it does not), it shows how taken for granted for the NHS is and how a little compulsion may be well overdue, not just in the patients but in the Drs who prescribe such things.

http://www.medicinewaste.com/campaign

Might be of interest - but it will take more than this to sort the NHS out.

Could it be those patients who are incensed at buying OTC paracetamol were hoping for something a little stronger eg co codamol ? :smirk:
Yes that is sometimes the case, but not often.....most of these types of people have a fairly elaborate and over-complicated story prepared to get stronger drugs!

I don't think we are thinking buying paracetamol is going to save the NHS, I think it's just being used as an example which most people can relate to.....e.g they know how much it costs in the shops, and so can appreciate that there is a massive difference between the cost via a shop and via a GP.

Of course you will not expect me to say I am paid too much, I work damn hard for it. Without going into the finer points of my salary, and bearing in mind it varies from area to area and country to country - I had 51 patient contacts last Monday and was paid £7.80 per contact, that is a mix of face to face, calls and visits - with most of those involving some degree of responsibility from prescribing the good old paracetamol to prescribing drugs at the end of someone's life, to deciding if someone needed to be admitted to hospital, to being asked to decide over the phone by a paramedic if someone I had never met should be admitted to hospital, based on a set of numbers and symptoms. So I think I earned my £7.80 every time! Oh and then I had 50 documents to look at, bloods, letters - decisions to be made, and then had around 120 prescriptions to check and sign. I completely agree that it's a lot of money, but with it comes a lot of responsibility, a few sleepless nights and some very long hours and days without lunch! And I wouldn't swap it for the world - sure patients frustrate the life out of me at times, they can be rude, angry, perplexing and demanding. But they also allow you the privilege of being involved in the biggest events in their lives - they let you into their head and into their heart, they often say "I have never told anyone this before....." and they trust you to do the right thing. They can inspire you, make you smile, make your day, sometimes make you cry and every day I love going to work.

Anyway.......that was a bit off topic.

Someone asked why the NHS pays the cost of these expensive drugs......I don't really know the answer, but I think taking a look at drug companies goes at least some way to answering that. Unfortunately if they produce a drug and no-one else does - if that is still under patent, there is no way that I know of, to circumvent that. When it comes off patent that is different. It is unfortunately the case that drugs that are "essential" or required in liquid or other forms are easy pickings for drug companies I suspect.

I think to the person who commented that doctors should be making the cost of drugs more widely known....I don't disagree as per my example of the liquid antibiotics - but as you can see the response from the patient wasn't ideal either! Sure we can try to rationalise the use of medicines, encourage patients to buy things where possible (bearing in mind Scotland has no prescription charge and so it's an uphill battle in that respect, as everything is free if you go to the GP!), but patients need to do their bit by asking themselves if they really need paracetamol (sorry - I'm not obssessed with paracetamol - well maybe a tiny bit) or is it "just in case", do they really need to tick every item on their repeat prescription, I think some people think - it's free, so why not? Except it isn't free. If you want to start a campaign to highlight the cost of common medicines OTC versus prescribed I'm right behind you. I think the fact the NHS has always been free at the point of need has made some people shy away from discussing cost with patients, as patients generally respond by saying "I pay my taxes so I'm entitled" and doctors in the past I think were a little frightened to tell patients they were giving them a cheaper drug as patients would be upset and think it was somehow attaching a sense of value, or not, to that patient e.g I'm giving you Acidex not Gaviscon because its £3 a bottle cheaper. Patients then decide it won't work before they take it, and then they say Bob next door gets Gaviscon, and his GP doesn't give him the cheap stuff......Oh God and on it goes and it all gets too messy for words!!! I don't shy away. I tell them the cost of things if it is relevant. I think people who pay their taxes need to realise their taxes don't go very far.

As far as the question of triage goes, that starts at the door of the surgery, some reception staff are very skilled at re-directing patients to pharmacies, opticians etc, there is then a further layer of triage if it's not clear whether a patient needs a face to face appt, and a GP will speak to them on the phone, and if an appointment is then needed then it's given.

Ok.....rant over - that's better!

Would like to hear the views of the GP on this.

Here's something else you might like to know - the average cost of a GP appointment in England is £200 (to the public purse.. as of a couple of years ago when I heard this discussed on Radio 4).

At my surgery patients just press a couple of buttons on a computer and are given an appointment slot, like they were dispensed £200 at an ATM.

Time is money. GPs salaries are very high and they are very overworked.

Not casting aspersions on patients but wouldn't some sort of triage alleviate pressures here? :smirk:

BUT... why is this going on? Why hasn't anyone with more than 10 braincells said let's not pay well over the odds for these things anymore? I don't understand how this has been allowed to go on? It's basically fraud or grand misconduct on someone's part.

It's like the NHS is being driven to fail on purpose... I know doctors like yourself work hard already, but every doctor in the land should be getting together and getting this info out at all times. It's a crime to let it go on like this unaddressed.

Who buys paracetamol from the doctors? Surely far more expensive.

Could it be those patients who are incensed at buying OTC paracetamol were hoping for something a little stronger eg co codamol ? :smirk:

Can we be honest here. Patients perceptions matters and they should be discouraged from seeing a GP for minor ailments. But isn't the REAL problem with the NHS stemming from the systematic reorganisation and dismantling by a Tory government..

The NHS was rated one of the most efficient and cost effective health systems in the world prior to Tory meddling, now it's on the brink of collapse. By design - privatisation by the back door.

Whilst well meaning and worth applying the principle, buying paracetomol OTC isn't going to undo the damage being done - against the will of the vast majority of the public - and people ought to be focusing their attention and actively doing something to prevent our most treasured institution from being destroyed.

Remembering of course that the NHS was created in a time of enormous national debt (almost bankrupt Britain post WW2), far worse conditions than exist now.

[Some might also point to excessive GP salaries being a concern, but might be rude to mention that...:wink:]

I am a GP in Scotland, and it costs £10 to prescribe paracetamol - taking into account the GP time, dispensing fee, drug cost etc. It costs 19p to buy. It's a no brainer. However, there are a certain group of patients who are outraged when any suggestion is made that they can buy things OTC. I have started to tell patients (I choose who to tell) how much it costs us - if I feel they genuinely can't afford to buy a few packets then I will happily issue it.

It doesn't just apply to paracetamol.....many patients have no concept of the fact that the NHS is free to them, but it still needs to be paid for. I spoke to a teenager a few weeks ago (someone who was 18) who needed treated for tonsillitis. I offered her tablets, she said she wouldn't be good at taking them as she wouldn't keep up with them and forget. She asked for liquid, I had quite a long conversation trying to understand why liquid medication would make her more compliant.....I still haven't figured it out, but she insisted it would. It wasn't a swallowing issue, it was a remembering to take them issue. I even told her tablets were £1.28 a course and liquid was costing the NHS £59-ish. So if she was able to take tablets that would be helpful. She didn't even flinch and just said she wanted the liquid. I suspect she still will not finish the course. That made me feel very despondent about patients perceptions of what they can expect and should expect.

I think in Scotland, where prescriptions are free, there needs to be re-introduction of even a nominal charge. I also wonder about GP practices selling simple drugs/OTC drugs like paracetamol, I think if patients were able to get what was recommended in one visit, in a reasonable quantity (e.g more than they are allowed to buy from a shop, for example 100 tablets as if often prescribed) most would not begrudge the couple of pounds it costs for many medicines. 100 paracetamol costs £2.70 if you bought that OTC. Sure some people really can't afford that, but most people can. Purchasing them from a surgery would be cheaper than issuing a prescription, and if the GP says that's what the patient needs, and this is documented, then that places no responsibility on reception staff etc.

I agree with the original post -the NHS absolutely will not survive unless things change. Yes there are many sources of inefficiency, but medication usage is a massive element of this. I sign often hundreds of prescriptions in a day, for several drugs at a time, many of which are cheap OTC and expensive on prescription. And this is for one small practice in a small town. This happens all over the UK, every day.

I am a GP in Scotland, and it costs £10 to prescribe paracetamol - taking into account the GP time, dispensing fee, drug cost etc. It costs 19p to buy. It's a no brainer. However, there are a certain group of patients who are outraged when any suggestion is made that they can buy things OTC. I have started to tell patients (I choose who to tell) how much it costs us - if I feel they genuinely can't afford to buy a few packets then I will happily issue it.

It doesn't just apply to paracetamol.....many patients have no concept of the fact that the NHS is free to them, but it still needs to be paid for. I spoke to a teenager a few weeks ago (someone who was 18) who needed treated for tonsillitis. I offered her tablets, she said she wouldn't be good at taking them as she wouldn't keep up with them and forget. She asked for liquid, I had quite a long conversation trying to understand why liquid medication would make her more compliant.....I still haven't figured it out, but she insisted it would. It wasn't a swallowing issue, it was a remembering to take them issue. I even told her tablets were £1.28 a course and liquid was costing the NHS £59-ish. So if she was able to take tablets that would be helpful. She didn't even flinch and just said she wanted the liquid. I suspect she still will not finish the course. That made me feel very despondent about patients perceptions of what they can expect and should expect.

I think in Scotland, where prescriptions are free, there needs to be re-introduction of even a nominal charge. I also wonder about GP practices selling simple drugs/OTC drugs like paracetamol, I think if patients were able to get what was recommended in one visit, in a reasonable quantity (e.g more than they are allowed to buy from a shop, for example 100 tablets as if often prescribed) most would not begrudge the couple of pounds it costs for many medicines. 100 paracetamol costs £2.70 if you bought that OTC. Sure some people really can't afford that, but most people can. Purchasing them from a surgery would be cheaper than issuing a prescription, and if the GP says that's what the patient needs, and this is documented, then that places no responsibility on reception staff etc.

I agree with the original post -the NHS absolutely will not survive unless things change. Yes there are many sources of inefficiency, but medication usage is a massive element of this. I sign often hundreds of prescriptions in a day, for several drugs at a time, many of which are cheap OTC and expensive on prescription. And this is for one small practice in a small town. This happens all over the UK, every day.

I don't get it, I've always bought these things from supermarkets.

When something is free there will always be shortages as people will abuse it but how are they getting these things for free?

I don't even bother going to my GP because they always seems to refer me to private treatments which I can't afford or say there's nothing wrong with me.

You don't work in meds management do you?!

Completely agree. The issue is people requesting paracetamol "just to have in the cupboard" or for occasional fever in kids. For chronic pain prescribed paracetamol has a valid part in pain management and may actually stop people needing more expensive drugs or interventions. I appreciate that there is a lot of waste in the NHS, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, but self care does have the potential to save much needed money.

paracetamol is 17p in Savers to get back to the point of the post!!! lol!

​Sorry, I haven't got time to read 40 pages of nonsense. It costs the NHS an average of £3.83 per prescription of paracetamol... Never mind the cost of the doctors time. I've heard of people making appointments just to get free painkillers.

Anyway... What point are you trying to make?

This is not a deal at all, these prices are standard at any supermarket and have always been this price

COLD

You are the problem. People like you. A walking talking product of societal manipulation by the elites, and too blind to see it.

Don't hate the player - hate the game.

Bring on BASIC INCOME.

No, they are estimates of total fraud occurring, not just what 'gets caught'. Read the footnotes of the page.

These are actual figures produced by an actual government agency, not your 'real life experiences'. The impact they have on your life is negligible, you simply choose to be more concerned about it than personal and corporate tax evasion. As is clear from your comments, you think everyone on benefits is a scrounger who wants to commit the crime of riding motorbikes and drinking alcohol. How dare those poor people do that.

This is because the Daily Mail have been found to make things up out of thin air, several times. Also the article provides nothing tangible, there are no figures, nothing.

I've done your work for you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10134429/Drug-firms-price-racket-calls-for-inquiry-into-drug-companies-overcharging-NHS.html

With a fraud level of £120m, it forms 0.1% of the NHS budget. This is well within acceptable parameters - fixing this won't save the NHS. Please provide better arguments.

You have thought out you response well with sensible stats that demonstrate the 'news' we're fed from the likes of the Daily Mail is just nonsense. Must be a remainer...

So effectively, if we were able to eliminate all forms of benefit fraud across Housing Benefit, Pensions, Employment and Support - with 60m UK inhabitants... each person will gain an average of £1.66 extra per year.

If you genuinely think it is going to make you better off, I am afraid the losses we will be sustaining in the first hour once Brexit actually happens, will dwarf that, so you have some hard times ahead.

You should be focusing your anger and frustration on those who imposed a trillion pound debt on you, your kids and grandkids back in 2008. Otherwise, you risk being 'left behind' forever.

Will be needing these after spending all my benefits on booze. Thanks OP :stuck_out_tongue:

​No I didn't 'kind of' say that, you just chose to interpret it as such. The figures are based on the actual amount of fraud that gets discovered. There is nothing else to base it on. How many people claiming benefits have other forms of income, for instance? The government has no idea. And the reason why these people are targeted as a problem, is because the guys growing weed in their lofts, and breaking into your house when you're on holiday, and riding motorbikes around the estate, and the people in a and e wankered on a saturday night are more than likely also claiming the dole. I don't read the daily mail and never have, these are real life experiences, and whilst the figures might be small, the impact this class of people have on other people's lives is massive.

This is what TIS was introduced for so you won't be out of pocket to go to interviews. As for travel to the job centre more than 95% of claimants live within travelling distance. If you fall outside the guidelines then you can continue your claim via post.

This site should be renamed...

TOXICukdeals.

Hardly gonna save the NHS is it?

Stupid.

Well yeah, you kind of did - because you were talking as if benefit fraud was a real, serious problem when it really isn't (except in the minds of Daily Mail readers).

The statistics are based on estimates of actual fraud occurring, i.e. not some guy looking at their local job centre and complaining that they're all lazy scroungers cheating the system. The government can be aware of it occurring based on prosecutions or simple estimates - it's bizarre to say they can't possibly measure it because 'if they could they could stop it'; the same could be said of any crime like drug use.

Here are the figures for you to look at yourself, you want page 9:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/473968/fraud-and-error-stats-release-fy-2014-15.pdf

Housing Benefit fraud is 2.4%, Pension Credit fraud is 1.8%, Employment and Support Allowance fraud is 1.2%, and Jobseeker's Allowance fraud (what you seem to be talking about) is 3.2%.

Shock! Horror! Oh, except it only costs £100m. That's a quarter of the entire NHS budget....in 1948. It's current budget is £116.4 billion, making JSA fraud a whopping 0.09% of their budget.

So yeah, benefit fraud is really taking away valuable tenths of a percent of the NHS budget.

It would be an idea if the people who come up with these threads understood how prescriptions work. There are some fantastically expensive medicines out there - cancer drugs that run to many thousands per year but their use, I'm comparison to the vast quantities and range of medicines is pretty small. So that people can afford the expensive drugs a prescription service was devised whereby a standard price is set which means the vast majority pay £8+ for medicines that are way cheaper and this overpayment is used to subsidise the expensive drugs. So when the OP calls for a boycott of getting cheap drugs on prescription, it's the people who don't use the prescriptions service who are actually costing the NHS money...not the other way around.

SAVE THE NHS? Isnt that the job of our prime minister? the one that goes around wearing £1,000 leather trousers.
the torries are going to wear the nhs down to the point of them saying that the only thing they can do is privatise it.
I can see it from a mile away, same thing has happened to our rail

Oh dear, you need to stop reading the Daily Mail. How do milk and and bread vouchers pay for travel to the job centre or job interviews? Think before you type.

The reason the NHS is short of money is far more complex than that. The issues with it are far from just management, in fact the NHS has an incredibly low spend on management in percentage terms compared with any other large business.

Problems with the NHS:
- Government interference; it's still trying to sort out the mess Andrew Lansley left it in - he's responsible for the biggest degradation in NHS services in the past 25 years.
- The system of commissioner/provider doesn't work. Commissions try to buy health services as cheaply as they can, Providers want people in through the doors so they get paid for it. Each person who walks into to A&E costs a CCG £75 or so, even if they then decide to go home.
- The removal of admin. It doesn't seem to click with some people that paying someone £15k pa to do paperwork to free up higher paid nurses and doctors is good value. No, the Daily Express and co would much rather pay a consultant £120k pa to do that in his work load. That's what happens, it's the equivalent of having Ronaldo & Messi serving drinks in the second half of football matches. Utterly bonkers. Get the highest paid people to do the really complex stuff, not the mickey mouse stuff.
- GPs taken out of practices and into management. This was Lansley goal when creating NHS CCGs. The result is a mess. GPs aren't generally interested in management, but Lansley (who's father was a GP), wanted them to dictate how the whole health system would work, so effectively forced some of them into management roles. Net result? Less GPs to see patients, GPs on £100k+ p/a taking jobs of management staff who were paid £40-60k p/a whilst back at their practices they have to get Locums in to cover their work who cost ridiculous money. If people can't get in to see a GP where do they go? A&E of course, and that costs vastly more than 20 minutes with a GP to resolve things!
- Lack of mental health funding. This one is damn silly, the government say they're increasing funding for this, but locally your non-mental health hospitals are struggling to the extent that they're demanding more money from your local CCG, who in turn doesn't have it, so will be pulling the money out of mental health services to keep things afloat. Why's it so silly? Because mental health patients have a far higher rate of admission to hospital than many other groups, so rather than stopping some of the traffic into hospitals at source via mental health assistance things are left to get out of hand. It's pure fire fighting.
- Medicines Management. These are the people who keep track of medicines locally and advise GPs what to prescribe, what not prescribe, what is poor value in terms of it's results, what alternatives that do the same thing costs less etc. These posts are classed as admin though, so they've seen plenty of cuts in the past few years. That's less people to try and help GPs prescribe effectively. In terms of a Paracetamol prescriptions an increase in funding of these teams could easily see the huge amount spent on this drug by the NHS cut.

I could go on and on... ultimately though the major issue with the NHS at present sits with the Tory government 2010-2016, their actions have had a huge impact on it, and that's why it's performance has been on a downward slope since the impact of their changes kicked in from ~2012 onwards. It's hard to know if they genuinely thought they'd make it better, or if the plan was to tie it's hands behind it's back to a point where privatisation then looked like it's only saviour.

Nice post.Many time i been docs and they have tried too give me a prescription for paracetamol.
i always just tell them i will buy it from shop.hoping one day my pennies saved with help someone with a real medical necessity.

I just worry that people that get these on the NHS give zero **** anyway. nice reminder though!

I think it's Iron Man and/or Captain America which are wholly funded by the US military... propaganda to get young Americans to blow themselves up in the name of patriotism. Over here we have Royal princes who do highly publicised stints in the forces to get us all romantic about war.

Of course, famously, the diamond barrons used cinema to implant the idea that diamond engagement rings are the only engagement rings worth the sentiment... it worked, and yet the they are still sitting on an abundance of the things artificially inflating the cost of diamonds when they are probably in reality worth less than a cat's eye.

Heat added. I've been buying supermarket own brands remedies for years like ibuprofen and cold/flu treatments. I'm exempt from prescription chgs because of health issues over recent years but it wouldn't occur to me to get things on prescription that i can get for pennies when i do my usual weekly shop.

When you have to wait 4-6 weeks in the queue to be seen by GP (of course you have to show the proof you live in the UK to get there in the first place), then 6-8 weeks in the queue for consultant... I can't really see how the "health tourists" could milk the NHS considering the cost of travel and accommodation for that time (unless that's walk-in clinic/A&E cost, when it would be enough to just check patients entitlement (i.e. give them invoices if they're not covered).
Bigger problem seem to be failing austerity policy (for example taking 2/3 money from councils *and* from care for elders *and* acting so surprised when people who could be discharged from hospitals can't be), "health tourists" seem to be only smaller part of the problem.
...of course, one can always fire some older doctors and make young leave the UK then bitch about immigration :>
...and of course, I forgot to mention about privatisation of the NHS Tories are so dedicated to -- no wonder, plenty of them (or their cronies) have businesses that are either milking NHS dry already, or can't wait to do it.

​I never offered any comment to suggest any opposite to what you're saying, did I?
As for your figures, they may be right, but if the government knew who was committing benefit fraud then there wouldn't be benefit fraud, is I'm not really sure where the figures come from.
In a town like Rotherham, I'm pretty sure the figures run much higher. And if you were to observe the front door of the job centre for a few hours, you'd see why a portion these people don't work. Their behaviour is disgusting, and it is this anti social lifestyle which alienates people from them. I very rarely go into my town centre as it is such a dive. I don't see how big corporations have caused certain people to behave worse than animals.

I've never seen it. I watch films on Blu-Ray, DVD and other means. I wouldn't regard cinema as television but it has its own department of mind control - the film industry is a classic arm of propaganda but of course it was only Nazis like Leni Riefenstahl who would do such a thing and never the UK or USA who only make factual and honest to goodness wholesome aren't we just brilliant movies which would never under any circumstances attempt to distort reality heaven forbid. God bless America.

How ironic that buying medicine from large supermarkets which don't pay their fair share of taxes, is somehow "helping" the NHS

It would be far more helpful to us the public, if all these thieving companies paid their taxes so that the required investment can be put into the NHS.

Aside from that, we need politicians willing to use our tax revenue to increase spending on public services such as the NHS, rather than crap we don't need, like trident.

Anyway, still a good deal, so I will add heat.

Peace.

​This is an unfortunate paradox. It infuriates me that people waste GP's time with coughs and colds when there's F... all the GP can do to help them. My dad lives in Wales and since they brought in universal free prescriptions, the GPs are overwhelmed with people wanting cheap over the counter medicines for free.
Unfortunately, they walk among us.

We won't have an NHS anymore if people keep voting in a party hellbent on destroying it. The amount of misinformed idiots in this thread is horrifying.


You're right - benefit fraud is running rampant at about 3%. The horror!

Meanwhile, 'hard working tax paying good folk' don't seem to care about rampant tax fraud by corporations and still happily support them. Almost as if they don't actually care about fraud and it's effect on public finances, they just don't like poor people.

Except that, as anyone who read through any of the earlier pages of this thread would already know, the NHS don't pay extortionate prices for mild painkillers. They pay the same, or less, than everyone else.

​I'm pretty sure he wants those who don't pay for prescriptions to just buy their own for 19p rather than the NHS paying their extortionate prices and prescribing them for free.

Believe it or not, you can watch television, and still make up your own mind. I'm watching 'The Goonies' right now with my son. No indoctrination, propaganda, dogmatism, or anything else for that matter. Just good clean fun!

Television, like all media, can only have as much influence on you as you allow.

You say, "Daily Mail website doesn't count".
One must have good discriminatory power to judge a thing on its merit. If Daily Mail or for that matter -any- newspaper or the Internet has exposed -tangible- substance, why deny it? Unless you are actually biased. You got no case. Judge a thing on its merit. What's the difficulty. Please read - Thank-you very much:

"The drugs companies said they were looking into the claims allegedly made by their representatives, while it was reported that one firm had suspended a member of staff.
A spokeswoman for Pharmarama International Limited, based in Borehamwood, Hertfordshire, said it would not comment while an internal investigation was being conducted.
Quantum Pharmaceutical said it was investigating the allegations and had suspended a member of staff.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2345639/Drug-firms-chemists-colluding-overcharge-NHS-millions-pounds-unregulated-drugs.html#ixzz4SYyv3jXL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Precisely, in fact just sit down and relax - it's being taken care of as we speak - 25.5 months remaining.

No, I know that I am not entirely correct, I accept that there are people who screw the system but the people who have their opinions spoon fed to them by media organisations with vested interests are more ready to believe that the relatively small number who do so are a greater economic drain than the tax dodging patrons of the media organisations and their corporate buddies. It's easy for lazy people to pour scorn on somebody they can look down upon - especially when the mind controlling device in the corner of their room is pumping ready-mapped neural pathways into their blancmange like brains so they don't have to think for themselves. Mindless mob mentality guided and distracted by corporate crooks; that's why I don't watch television.

You're not entirely correct. People abuse the benefits system, and this does annoy hard working tax paying good folk. There are people claiming for disabilities that they don't have, for instance, which has led to the government trying to clamp down, but sadly, more often than not the wrong people get targeted, and those genuinely in need suffer. And there are people who claim to be single parents, who actually have a working partner living with them. There are many other ways to fiddle the system. And it does happen. And yes, to some people, unemployment is a lifestyle choice. I didn't read this in the Mail, or The Sun. I live in Rotherham, and have seen it with my own eyes on a daily basis.

In the North West of England, their NHS was paying 948 pounds PER ROLL of paper towels. The same paper towels that you got in school in 1985.

When I heard that, I decided the NHS has to go, preferably before all the boomers leave the youth with trillions more debt.

It's not quite as straightforward as this. The NHS needs restructuring, from top to bottom. I work in an estates department at a large hospital, and the amount of abuse of equipment that goes on is staggering. We replace literally thousands of pounds worth of equipment per day that has just been abused or used incorrectly. The managers have to take ultimate responsibility for this, but there is a culture within the NHS that money is no object, and that is throughout the entire organisation. Until people are held accountable from top to bottom, the NHS will continue to suffer.

Not what I said, everyone has bad luck but I still say that no one should get more for not working than for working else no one would ever work

I'm a bit confused about the sentiment of the OP.

Surely, if the cost of paracetamol is 19p and the cost of a prescription is £8.40, the saving here is to the consumer not the NHS. It could be argued that in the case of paracetamol and aspirin, getting it on prescription could be a net benefit to the NHS.

I love this oft trotted out hate flame.

I don't watch television so I can hardly be regarded as a TV sympathiser but to attack people for owning a FLAT SCREEN television is the most idiotic nonsense. You are basically attacking them for having a television because the last time I saw a CRT TV for sale was at a car boot sale about five years ago.

And being somebody who does not watch television, I know what an outcast that makes me; I am forever asked, 'how do you live without watching television?. So, the inference is that people who are alienated by their unemployment should be further alienated by their disconnection from social norms. I know from having worked in care that access to a television is regarded as a human right (a religious community was sanctioned by the CQC for not allowing residents with learning difficulties to watch the World Cup and it was deemed that their human rights were being violated).

But generally, you have really swallowed the establishment media narrative that it is all the fault of the poor and that people on benefits are somehow raking it in because The Sun managed to locate one or two people who are exceptions; people on JSA generally get £75 per week plus Housing Benefit which is usually a good deal short of rent. Being unemployed is not, despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe, a lifestyle choice.

So, in your world, nobody ever has bad luck and needs a helping hand then?

And why doesn't the workforce who give the best years of their lives to some ungrateful corporation for the privilege of being debt enslaved for 21 days holiday (if you're lucky) a year, ask for more instead of just bending over and taking it, being fed soap operas and talent shows on TV every night watching them like zombies?

You should watch Michael Moore Where to Invade Next before you react to my comment with your back up. If someone pointed out I was being exploited like a mug, and doped up with mindless TV to keep me sedated, I'd be a bit peed off too.

Why should anyone get more for sitting in the house than someone working at minimum wage, this is why some people do not want a job

So is M.E.

Just so you know its costs the NHS £10.49 each free prescription of paracetamol. Buy them yourselves!!!!

Fibromyalgia is a real disease

Wow, the stereotype of a bitter 'working-class hero'... Seriously, if working a 9-5 in an office or a shop and being 'allowed out' for lunch like a dog to do its business is such a nice life... why do you sound so bitter about it? For someone who has been given the privilege to be a debt slave you don't sound very happy about it.

People need to ask more questions of the life they acquiesce in to, lead sleepwalking by the brainwashing from newspapers and trashy TV shows like Britons on Benefits or whatever the hell button-pressing titles they give these low-brow 'programmings'.

To the person who wrote this: you're as much as a victim of your environmental surroundings as the dole scum you see and despise on your lunch. They are not the problem, they are the symptom of a system that is totally, totally, broken.

a small box of tissues is £5 in the NHS...

Delete the post!
The NHS had been saved!

Ever heard of NHS england ? Another corprate company brought in by corrupt nhs leaders getting a backhander fleecing us all

its not only public payments but free NHS, free accomodation etc....are they all included in that 0.5%?
People are getting away with too much. I didnt make the post you replied to but i definitely "hate" that.
Some poeple deserve the financial help but many dont and thats the message he sent.

It's OK everyone, stop worrying. I just remembered Boris and his pals saved the NHS back in June:

The restriction of max 32 tablets for sale in shops was theoretically a measure designed to discourage suicide attempts. Really though it was a cynical way to improve margins. I remember when you could buy a bottle of 100 paracetamol in Boots for much less than even now the cost of 100 paracetamol in 16-packs.

This is not to say that paracetamol overdose was a zero problem it did exist albeit in statistically small numbers. The more obvious solution though would have been to supply the tablets pre-mixed with the antidote methionine. Thus you could not overdose on them. For a while there was actually a branded version of this called Paradote. Private Eye ran a campaign for safer paracetamol but ultimately the ban just came in anyway.

Gonna have to start a thread about cheap supermarket Gaviscon copies (of which there are many) Reading all these rant posts gave me a headache so I took some 19p Aspirins and now I have acid reflux!!

Oops hit a nerve, ****!

What clinical background does the op have to advise or deter a visit to a gp or a&e

umm - i voted hot as surely this is about cheap 19p tablets being as effective as those being bought by NHS for so much more - I've not read the xxx comments before.... waiting to ensure shot down in flames....

Well it certainly wasn't any better before Obamacare. The state was spending more per head of population than the UK does (and the overall spend was several times higher) for generally worse outcomes. Some people's premiums were lower (because the insurers could pick and choose who to insure, and what for) but that makes no difference to the points I was making.

Do you know of any countries where the overall spend on healthcare per head is lower than the UK, and outcomes are better? I imagine there must be some, but I'm not sure who they are.

Yawn.

You do realise that unemployment payments (e.g the people you target in your post) account for less than 0.5% of public spending, right? That means that even if we put in the strictest 'get back to work you lazy non-taxpaying slob' bigoted policies, we're going to see a net gain... of almost nothing. You're hating the wrong people bud.

To all the Christians an Muslims in the UK, where is your " God " in all this? When you or your children get ill why don't you run to your local church / mosque and get god or Allah to cure them? Thank god you don't ( Lol, i know ) but It's clear that if you really had absolute faith you and yours would get worse and possibly die. Is that god's plan to save the NHS by removing 15m customers from it's system?
This has gone from a deal on meds to a discussion about the nhs/politics. So keep " God " and religion out of it, a system about knowledge science and innovation should not be sullied by pipe dreams, folklore and fantasy.

( p.s please don't wait for faith to cure you as it's dangerous and may open you up to ridicle )

Next time I get a visit from the question police, I'm going to demand a badge!

You must be having a great Saturday evening!

This is so true

How mortgages are created is another interesting one. The YouTuber WhiteRabbitTrust is an ex-banker with some interesting things to say..

If the world has a debt, who does it owe the money to?

'Money' is just made up on a computer. That's what quantitive easing is - just adding more numbers into the system. Saving the country this and that, is just a load of rubbish. There's nothing to save. Our debt can only ever increase as money is created from debt. learn how the financial system works. YouTube "the biggest scam in the history of mankind".

Could be worse, imagine if that happened during an election or referendum.

I don't know who gets but our GP prescribes it for everything like it's some miracle cure :man:

Its one of those deals were people vote hot no so much on the price but by the sentiment expressed. Its kind of like a thumbs up/thumbs down battle for those who care about such virtue signalling.

​wasn't saying that. However for a civilized nation it is unbelievable that anybody should be sleeping rough or going hungry.

The poorest parts of Africa are indeed true poverty however that is a third world country (and no I'm not saying that makes it alright because nobody should live in poverty regardless of where they come from!)

​Yes, but this is the fault of Lansley's ridiculous HSCA. They promised us no top down reorganisation, then wasted billions of taxpayers pounds on a top down reorganisation that made things worse. It's not a problem inherent in public provision, it's a problem of incompetent management by a dishonest government.

We need to get away from anti-NHS rhetoric and correctly apportion blame for its inadequacies to the politicians that run it.

LOL. "Save the NHS from bankruptcy". It is flooded with money and the sixth biggest "employer" cough bureaucracy in the World that uses government force to make people pay for it, and delivers terrible service in return. Rationed healthcare, waiting lists, needless deaths and a lot of money for it's managers. I'd rather buy a paracetamol from ASDA than be treated on the National Homicide Service. Heat added.

​oh I missed this slur, so this is a great deal?, or a revelation?, or are people just voting to show support for the NHS ?

you are thick, or ignorant o disagree with my simple statements, either way your comment regarding my opinion on this is pretty irrelevant to the original post.

Another one living with their head in the sand no doubt.

Aside from the London weighting, they are indeed similar.
I don't want to pry, but I have never heard of a case where the salary of a doctor is released in a compensation claim. We pay for medical defence insurance so, if sued, our insurance (or more often, the NHS trust) pays out if a valid claim, never the doctor themselves. Nor do I believe the NHS would ever release a certain doctor's salary (Confidentiality to the employee).

It sounds like you might have had a problem for a private procedure? Whom are indeed a select group of *usually* consultants whom part time work for the NHS and part time work privately. But I should emphasise the overwhelming majority don't do private procedures and therefore don't make anything like the few 'daily mail' headline rates.

These are the official figures for doctors before consultant level: https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/pay/juniors-pay-england

Just to point out that I know many elderly disabled people who get paracetamol on prescrition who have to take the full dose of 8 tablets a day, they simply cannot get to the shops every four days to keep buying the damn things so when they lift the ridiculous rule that you can only puchase two packets at a time then I'm sure many of them would be happy to pay.

Our doctors must be doing fine. You can't get an appointment for love nor money. So you either get better or end up in A&E before you can get an appointment. 17 day lead time for a 5 day window! People queue outside before they even open like they are queuing for an iPhone!

I'm now from the group of the only time I'm likely to use the NHS is if I'm hit by a bus and taken to A&E without my knowledge.

When it gets to the time the internet can't help it will be time to call the undertaker's. :disappointed:

Did you bother to read any of the 749 comments before yours? Or do you actually think you've solved the NHS crisis in one swift move?

Sorry for being grumpy :/

Why doesn't the NHS buy generic brands where possible??

I totally agree with people buying their own paracetamol and ibuprofen I do that myself and just buy the cheapest one as they work just the same as the branded ones

However, working as a doctor in the community I am surprised by the number of people who wanted it prescribed. The cost of dispensing these very cheap medications is so high. People are offended if I even so much as to suggest they were to buy it themselves. I have parents coming in for appointments to get a free paracetamol prescription for their child with a snotty nose. There is the cost of the consultation, cost of the product and the cost of dispensing. People just seems to be oblivious of the cost of anything in the NHS and seems too selfish and self-righteous to in their thinking telling me "well I pay my taxes" and SO DO I!!!!! If everyone can just do a tiny bit to help it will make a big difference.

If anyone thinks that those living in 'relative poverty' is REAL poverty then compare their houses, their sewers, their endless supply of clean water, their flat screen tvs, their luxuries with those LIVING IN AFRICA!

Part of the issue is that people who need and routinely take paracetamol can only buy 16 at a time from supermarkets to stop people commuting suicide. GPs can prescribe 100s at a time so people use the service for convenience. This limitation on purchases needs to be removed, it will do the NHS a favour and it's not like it will stop anyone killing themselves anyway. They could just go to two or three shops if they were determined.

​well yes, it would be an area of their life that has no concerns, so would not try to solve a problem that doesn't exist for them, they would not think about it. If they knew they could save tax payer £8 a throw, would they ? debatable but the best for themselves on a low budget would obviously be to take cheapest option regardless of potential benefits for others.

nice try but im not saving **** all and plus i never get ill

Why won't they, because they can get painkillers for free?

The general public have no medical or pharmacological training. In general they would be unable to take them responsibly and thus the risks would outweigh the benefits otherwise antibiotics would likely be OTC here. All drugs and medicines have side effects, including antibiotics, some worse than others. There aren't many addictive painkillers currently OTC, the only one I can think of are low doses of codeine and this has warning labels plastered all over them and are sold at the pharmacist's discretion.

Canada only sells topical antibiotics OTC, think of a savlon-type cream for cuts and minor wounds. All those USA drugs you listed are listed as Rx i.e. prescription only so I'm not sure where you're getting your info from. It's also a silly argument regardless. Some countries allow you to buy guns quiets easily and in some homosexuality is illegal, shall we legalise guns and ban homosexuality too because other countries do it?

so if these are 19p, how is it a waste of money for the nhs if u pay £8.20 for them?

What a load of rubbish a prescription costs more and gives money to the NHS

Im shocked the amount of people voting hot... I wouldnt pay more than 30p for a pack of painkillers, these prices are common knowledge?

Also who doesnt know that cheap brands and expensive ones are the same ingredients? (watch out for vitamin products tho, a lot of them are half dose, read the RDA's on the back)

Im just flabagasted how blind some people must have been to make it past the age of 16 without knowing these things...

Proof stats? My point is there has never been a sensible study into it without bias from one side or the other ... It's all who you choose to believe .

I was replying to a post about immigrants and using the nhs .. Sorry forgot to link it . And this post has degenerated into an attack on the poor , jobless , rich and everything else long before I posted . But I apologise for taking it off topic .

This is true, particularly in the case of the NHS - what's your point?

​I was involved in a recent compensation claim for blinding me in 1 eye and severely damaging the other and the senior doctors salaries and head of department were disclosed as well as the real amount of hours. Are salaries similar across the country (besides Ldn waiting allowance)?

Giving people the CHOICE to take medicines responsibly should be a basic human right. Painkillers are potentially far more harmful than antibiotics and are proven to be addictive yet nobody would ever suggest they were made available only by prescription.
Antibiotics are available over the counter in Canada and European countries such as Spain. Even in the heavily FDA regulated USA you can get antibiotics like vantin, Noroxin and Keflex.

What situation we have now? Some people are just obsessed and will turn any conversation about anything into a rant about immigrants.I have perfectly nice and otherwise normal mates who when I have a conversation with them about football or motorbikes or cleaning gutters within about 2 minutes they have kicked off about immigrants. Now you just did the same with paracetamol.

None of this was an issue until the poorer countries entered the EU. For 30 years the countries had basically the same standard of living so migration was mainly for work etc and in limited numbers . Then when the eastern block entered with wages a fifth of uk wages the figures ramped up . can't blame people for wanting better , but at what cost ? . Stagnation of wages for the low skilled , competition for social housing , massive strain on schools , and yes on health also . The politicians expected 10000 a year .. This turned out to be 170000 a year from the Eu. This was media managed into " immigrants are good for the economy and cost the country nothing " then announce any research into this statement is racist , so the truth is hidden , leading to the situation we have now .

basically any benefit-er that can afford 19p , should do this...but they won't

...i doubt they have any concern to do so, its free for them and they can just charge the tax payer £8 instead , no brainer - just like getting a house to lounge in all day for free and having the taxpayer cover the 1000's when its unlikely they have ever paid tax in their life.

It;s sensible financial choice on their part, you cant expect people with nothing to pay money they don't have to - and so the only fix is changing the system,

There are big changes a head though, next GE will be an interesting one - be prepared for the snide trickery or the anti 'brexit' brigade and the like

​Very true. It will be interesting to see where Europe will stand following brexit. I think we'll introduce an insurance system, similar to what we use on holiday. Ooh and the rest of the world as well just before someone calls me a racist or a fascist or a xenophobe or a nazi or a bigot or a platypus... Basically any word meaning anything, really

The way their figures now work makes it look like poverty isn't an issue when it evidently is.

Don't we anyway ? It's absurd to run a contribution based health , education and benefits system , then let people access it when they have paid zero in .

​So we should give free health care to the world? like every other nation doesn't?

The fact is everyone is a burden on the nhs .. If nobody used it , it would be awash with money . Immigrants and health tourism do have an effect obviously , but to what extent , who knows , and until they stop referring to any study into this as " racist" we will never know .

Check the balance sheets before moaning about "foreigners" burdening the NHS, it's a myth.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiPqbnuvOnQAhVKOhQKHUkBDJUQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.englishforum.ch%2Finternational-affairs-politics%2F248891-junior-doctors-nhs-vs-swiss-6.html&psig=AFQjCNFrWEvLSd5Mt1toNx1D2bnCgUR5zA&ust=1481453944184625

" hey mum we are on the up , we only live in relative poverty , not abject poverty"

​The government moved the goal posts on the definition of poverty and relative poverty to massage their figures.

What a vacuous statement. I asked for evidence. Very often what people think is true, empirically isn't. So actually providing it helps stop people claiming anything they want and then saying "Oh the evidence is out there, people have read it, so therefore it must be true."

How much do you suppose the cost of the admin, the doctor's time, the use of the consulting room, the purchase and distribution of the drugs and the time of the pharmacist at the dispensary would amount to if you did it privately?

If surgeries weren't clogged up with slackers who are trying to get medication that costs pennies for "free" or concocting BS stories to try to get their GP to support fraudulent benefit claims, we might have a better, more responsive health service.

That's ok then .

There aren't really any restrictions, wander around the shops, pick up a couple of packs in each shop, or simply go through the checkouts in Lidl or Aldi a few times and you can fill your shopping bag with the drug.

Yup that too. As a country overall we are doing very very well regarding antibiotic resistance thankfully (much better than the rest of Europe which dishes them out wilynily)
Haha. This is probably the best post of them all.
STOP reading the bloody Sun newspaper.

Do you know what the doctor starting salary was until the new contract? £22,000!
Do you know what the doctor starting salary is now with the new contract? £24,000.
Did you know that doctors work 48 hour weeks (minimum) in full time employment?

Doctors have just been given a new contract; which absolutely stinks. Bare in mind there have been no changes to salaries for the last 8 years or so, so due to inflation the salaries have already sunken drastically.

There are now no enhancements for working weekends therefore drastically reduced wages, removal of important fees/fines that hospitals have to pay if they overwork you; this all means; more doctors are leaving the UK (don't blame them one bit), more shortage of doctors, more gaps in rotas, more unsafe staffing levels -> WORST PATIENT SAFETY

Relative poverty IS NOT POVERTY!!!!

Look at the profits of the drugs companies .. Scandalous .. Yeah I know R&D , blah blah.. The govt should invest in setting up
A decent pharma industry in this country to create jobs and reduce costs.

​The problem is the NHS is paying too much. If the medication is ridiculously cheap they should also be buying it at the cheap price. The pharmacy should not be able to charge such an uncompetitive rate.

Wrong.
For chronic conditions like arthritis it is regularly prescribed alongside other pain killers such as tramadol.

I think antibiotic resistance may also be down to the injecting of animals in our food chain to maximise profits

Did you add an extra 0 into your doctor salary fugues by mistake or intentional? My starting junior doctor salary will be circa £28,000 and my consultant salary will be £75,000-£85,000. That's full time employment.

A race to the bottom . Because the nhs pays its admin staff a living wage and joe bloggs ltd pays his the minimum , we should adopt the sports direct zero hours contract model for all our government funded jobs .?.

75% of children living in poverty in this country come from homes with at least one parent working .

I wonder how much effect it would have if the NHS rebalanced Doctors salaries and made them work a full week rather than part time. £250,000 - £500,000 per annum and then off to earn even more in their private practices which in some cases are run from NHS hospitals.

Its a serious failing in our country that if your paid from the public purse theres no wage fairness and obscene salaries - Im a judge so worth more than highly skilled and need 18% pay increases, Im middle management in a council so should be paid far higher then a similar role in the private sector, Im a doctor so should only work part time so I can run my private practice. You may as well call senior bank staff public paid as for sone reason its public money that bails them all out while they take obscene amounts for themselves.
I dont think anything will change but the NHS and other public sectors will always be strapped for cash as the more you feed it thr more it wants due to self importance.

I haven't read all this thread but has anyone told the NHS? They're the ones who should be saving money by buying from asda...

Also has anyone mentioned that asthma sufferers can save a fortune by buying ventolin in Spain? Everytime I go on holiday I stock up as they're only E2.60 & you don't need a prescription. Just let your doctor know you've got them.

People lash out at others when their own lives are awful. This person is just jealous and hates their job. So they take out their frustrations on the unemployed or minorities groups. It's why all forms of prejudice exist.

​Quite right. The other day I diagnosed a patient with a relatively innocuous-sounding sore throat with a haematological malignancy. On the other hand, I see about 5 people a day with a blocked ear after a cold, which is entirely normal and requires no medical treatment.

Antibiotics aren't indicated for any of these people. Google is incredible and I must confess that we do use it, but it's no substitute for med school. If you have a cough or cold, try the pharmacist first, then see your GP if symptoms persist.

​Excellent post. C-sections are brutal indeed; ripping your first abdomen apart with your hands is something of a rite of passage for a JD/medical student. I wouldn't recommend it unless absolutely necessary, we are designed for reproduction after all. If you need one, however, don't fear; we do everything we can to make it as comfortable as possible. You won't see or feel much at all.

​HA HA you can't see past getting your free drugs, every time someone visits their GP to save themselves, for example, £1.50 on cold and flu medicine (if you get free prescriptions) the gp gets £30 for your visit and the NHS pay your prescription cost (it looks like they don't have to pay for it but the books have to be balanced), it costs the gp time that could be used helping someone who actually needs help.

You're also prescribed a recognised a brand that every pharmacy is likely to stock to ensure your prescription can be filled immediately. So instead of your prescription costing the NHS £1.50 it costs £4.50 for your medicine.

So to sum it up, you get a free £4.50 flu medicine (which could cost you personally £1.50), the NHS pays £38.50 for the doc and prescription, multiply that by let's say 10 times your GP does that per day, multiply that by 30,000+ surgeries in the UK = a crap load of money.

If you went and bought your own simple meds such as ibuprofen, cold and flu capsules then you save the NHS £38.50 and if everyone did that then the NHS saves 'a crap load of money' that they can use to get your operation or cancer treatment or what ever treatment, that you may come to rely upon, quicker in the future saving your penny pinching **** so that you can come to HDUK well into your 90's and save your skinny **** money when your pension amounts to little more than a tin of beans :smile:

Sorry but this is simply wrong. Dental abscesses require diagnosis by dentist to determine any necessary treatment such as extraction and antibiotics aren't even routinely prescribed. If you have or think you have an abscess you need to go see a GP or dentist, not self-diagnose and self-medicate with antibiotics. For example you may not need the antibiotics because either it's not an abscess or it might go away by itself after a couple of days or the antibiotics may not be suitable or strong enough for the abscess anyway.

When you pay the £8 for a prescription charge you are not paying for the drugs themselves, it is irrelevant if they are cheaper than £8 or not. Antibiotics are very important drugs that should be regulated, there is no significant benefit in making them available without prescription and certainly not if you just want to save a few quid.

And they get free Buckie and deep fried Mars bars. What's not to like?

Prescription charges in Scotland are free.

If it is on the internet, you can link it here... Daily Mail website doesn't count.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is question of *improving the system* with -checks and balances- not throwing out the system. There is no throwing out the baby with bath-water. The *need* is to to make the system accountable. Just like we have had a number of greedy MPs who exploited the system for *many* years with expenses scandal. They were exposed. Did we shut down the Parliament? Some had to go and some paid-back the money. We are not saying vulnerable should not be protected. On the contrary, the NHS is *for* the vulnerable. But we can not allow exploitation to go on unchallenged. Otherwise, NHS is finished. Regards Points 2, 4 & 5 are there for those that have got the sound presence of the intelligence to observe what is happening - it is on the internet.

The art of sweeping generalizations isn't dead here... People who work can still be poor.

No more for you tonight.

WE'VE TOLD THE WORLD THE TRUTH ABOUT SKEKSIS ROCK DEMON BRIAN MAY'S ANCIENT UNCHAINED EVIL.

WE'VE BLOWN THE LID OFF OF HIS FOLLICULAR FABLES.

WE'VE REVEALED HOW MAY DESTROYED FREDDIE IN AN OCCULT BLOOD SACRIFICE DURING A DESPERATE BID TO TAKE HIS PLACE IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE PUBLIC.

WE'VE EXPOSED HIS SHAMELESS MOCKERY, EXPLOITATION, AND HUMILIATION OF COWS AND FLIGHTLESS BIRDS.

NOW, IN A MIND-BLOWING NEW SERIES, WE THINK YOU SHOULD WILL DELVE INTO THE SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT FREDDIE MERCURY AND HIS TRAUMA-INDUCED MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES, OR 'ALTERS' - AND HOW LECHEROUS LIAR BRIAN MAY CONTINUALLY REINFORCED HIS PROGRAMMING - ALL WHILE USING MERCURY AS A TOOL TO FURTHER MAY'S DISGUSTING MASTER PLAN. BE FOREWARNED, MUCH OF THIS WILL BE SERIOUSLY DISTURBING TO MANY OF FREDDIE'S LOVING AND DEVOTED FANS. BELIEVE YOUR EXPERT OPINION ADVISERS WHEN WE SAY THAT EVEN WTYS WAS SHOCKED TO OUR FOUNDATIONS BY WHAT WE UNCOVERED WHILE RESEARCHING THESE DARK THEMES...STILL, THESE TRUTHS MUST BE REVEALED IN ORDER TO FREE FREDDIE'S SOUL FROM BRIAN MAY'S OPPRESSIVE, MURDEROUS LIES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH EXPLICITLY LAID-OUT DEACONIST PROPHECIES. IN THIS SERIES WE WILL COVER:

-FREDDIE'S TRAUMATIC CHILDHOOD RAPE AT BOARDING SCHOOL
-FREDDIE'S KNOWN ALTERS: FAROKKH BULSARA, FREDDIE MERCURY, LARRY LUREX, MOTHER MERCURY, MELINA MERCURY, WHITE QUEEN
-FREDDIE'S TRANSFORMATION FROM 70s TRENDSETTER TO 80s "GAY CLONE"
-THE TRUE MEANING BEHIND MERCURY'S MAGNUM OPUS "BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY"

I'm all for this good find op

Those are good things.

Thanks for a clear and logical approach to your post Tianuk. You are a voice of sanity and reason and I admire the way you dismantle the 'facts' provided by John London.

Easier not to think about it mate .,just keep paying your taxes to keep them , Nothings going to change .

I know people shouldnt take them for colds but there are plenty of infections that necessitate penicillin for treatment that does not require a doctor to diagnose forching you to pay 8 quid for prescription that would otherwise costs pennnies. Tooth abscesses for one.

The NHS spends less per capita on public healthcare than Canada, Germany, USA, Switzerland and in the UK it is available to everyone. The USA in particular spends more public money on healthcare per capita than in the UK, but of course not everyone has access to the service.

The poor demonise themselves with their fecklessness and their sponging off the state.

wonder how much NHS pays for it? they must be using corrupted contracts their heads and politicians make, all brits btw.

If the Tories could get away with food stamps they would . Demonising the poor , sick and jobless , with the help of the media , has been the aim since they got in . Worse times ahead I fear .

It's maddening to think, he's getting angry at unemployed people for the NHS failing (for some reason??), when it's the Tories, who were voted-in by angry idiots like him (because they promised to punish the unemployed) who are deliberately and systematically de-funding services so they can eventually sell the whole thing off cheap to their millionaire donors. The future of the human race never looked so bleak.

Bread and milk vouchers eh? Well I am gluten and lactose intolerant , can I have fags and booze vouchers instead .

​I see.. well whoever is giving a jobless person 14k credit is a dumbass!

Too true! Everyone's entitled to an opinion but it does make him sound like a cretin. How can you go from the NHS is in the **** to having a pop at the unemployed? Did they somehow cause the problem?

Like I tell my kids, question everything and don't follow the crowd!

The best way to save the NHS is to stop voting Tory

http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/links-between-mps-lords-and-private-healthcare/

There's a reason they're so rich

Why does @John London avoid the question and tell us WHERE his "In My Country" is?
Also if its so flippin' good in his wont tell us "My Country" why doesn't he go back to his "My Country" if its that wonderful.
Ps
I voted remain and both my parents devoted their lives to the NHS, dad a Consultant pediatric anaesthetist and mum a teacher at Alder Hey Childrens Hospital Liverpool.

Scary how many people liked this post. This is the kind of mentality that caused Brexit and Trump

"Our own"

Cringe, cringe, cringe.

I think this is a brilliantly thought out response to this troll.

​Brilliantly said.

Really top notch post.

Unfortunately there are people who read the tabloid crap and take it as gospel.

Probably £19.99 to the NHS.... with a few back handers to make it easier to swallow :wink:

Is this site turning into facebook now?

Keep your ill informed opinions on public services to yourself.

on the same theme .. My mate got made redundant after 30 years in a well paid job , paying substantial tax and NI (even his redundancy was taxed) .. And cos his wife works , he can't claim a penny after his initial 6 months contribution based benefit stopped . So after 30 years of paying in he gets zilch, and pays full prescriptions etc . And at mid 50s is struggling to find anything . At least he is spared bread and milk vouchers eh.

This country has become racist, immigrantist and so incredibly stupid and gullible! People always want to put blame on benefit claimants and immigration and not people running country and companies bleeding us dry. People will bitch and moan when we start having to pay for healthcare upfront and people will bitch when rights are taken away you bloody voted for it!

Furiousjammin I've worked all my life up till last year when I was taken ill your attitude stinks about the unemployed I had the same attitude as you before I was unemployed but untill you been in that position you can't imagine how hard it is to get a job especially at my age I must have been to numerous intervews done courses to help me applyed for jobs rediculous amounts of times...but at the end of the day I've paid my taxes n my nat insurance I'm only getting back what I paid into for years n yes I bloody well will spend it how I like ok so plp remember one day you could be unemployed yourself...so dont knock plp that are on the dole thru no fault of there own you don't know what they been thru....n I'm not ranting I say it how it is n thru experience...

This outdated view that all the budget goes in managers coffers is early Cameron 2006 rhetoric. He slated labour for introducing private tenders for treatment yet in gov.t he took his/Osborne's Bullingdon club fantasy of reducing the size of the state including the NHS to the point where total privatization would become a necessity. As long as the poor keep dying young and the middle/upper classes and elites live on then conservative values will remain strong.
If the tory MP's including May were forced to take the truth drug sodium pentathol their dreams and views on the insignificant poor would terrify you, whereas insignificant Jeremy Corbyn would whimper ' where's my humanoid breathless barrel Diane Abbott '

Thanks, that's very kind. Yeah ED or Emergency Department it's the phrase the kids are using these days lol

Indeed, however, if you work in the NHS you can see the duplication between CCG's and CSU's is a bit of a joke. I used to work in the medical devices and our brands were overlooked by a CCG because the competitor offered 2 different types of colours, same device, same safety profile, same efficacy, same functionality same MHRA validation.

It cost one CCG an additional 1.8 million pound.....because the other provider had one more colour.

Madness.

Hi Caroline
I know you dont earn money (well I assumed you didn't like me) but 4k degrees is Kudos and I think you are likely to enjoy more success, just saying.
thanks for the posting.
ps
is EDs A and E?

TBH I have no problem with immigrants and don't listen to majority of the media on this issue like lot of this country does and I don't criticise them because I know it's not so black and white and it's benefical. The reason I said "why don't you go back home then" is because of you criticising how crap ours is but saying how amazing it is back home.

Believe me I know we have some issues. I'm struggling with illness for last few years that struggling to get under control and no one will prescribe me meds that I think can potentially make a big difference. One because of cost and it's a heated subject if works or not ( though studies and patient experience clearly shows it works for some people) Some of the doctors are also awfully incompetent and have no manors but changing it to private won't fix those issues.

and what country is this John London?


Again; I'm intrigued to find out the location of this utopia.


LOL this is just ridiculous. This definitely DID NOT happen; you see in the NHS they do actually attend and treat to people based on their clinical need; if the radiologist or whoever didn't authorise the scan it would be because there weren't sufficient indications for it, not because they couldn't afford it. Again; if you could enlighten us all on the issue itself, so far you have just written a lot of ambiguous stuff.


Again; more ambiguity; what was wrong with the baby?. it wasn't an emergency so why the need to see the Paediatrician right away?
Do you know how many worried parents visit the GP about their children?
Why waste precious paediatrician time when a GP can sort out the problem?


More lies and utter rubbish. IN THIS COUNTRY doctors ARE present during births for COMPLICATED patients and when they are NEEDED! Do you know how many births occur every hour in THIS COUNTRY? How feasible and efficient would it be to have a doctor with every woman giving birth?
Also if the baby is macrosomic or past dates (a very large baby!) and the health of the mother is put at risk through normal **** delivery then of course she will be given a C-section. Stop making stuff up.

Have you ever seen a C-section? do you even understand the risks involved?

I know this happens in Cuba; and it currently happens in the UK for a lot of different groups of patients who suffer from chronic conditions; it would be nice; but would also cost a lot more money for the taxpayer.


How is it Stalinist? You've just been talking about the wonders of "state health insurance"; how very Stalinist of you.


You honestly believe an extra 2% GDP is a similar figure for healthcare spending? (Germany compared to the UK for example), you also realise Germans pay far more each for their healthcare per year? Give me facts that all those countries have vastly superior healthcare systems.

Mr. John London; you obviously have a very large chip on your shoulder; and it does sound like YOUR country seems to be some sort of utopia according to yours truly.

Nope. It's the patients who will go to see a doctor to get a "free" prescription for drugs that would cost them pennies. The administration, the doctors time, the use of the buildings and facilities, managing the supply chain and the use of a pharmacist all cost money - increasing the real cost of the drugs by several orders of magnitude.

This has absolutely nothing to do with money or profit (for once)

You are only allowed to buy limited quantities in one transaction for a reason - the risk of an overdose. Take over 50 paracetamol tablets in one go and most people will either end up with permanent organ damage and/or die.

For example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-387953/Student-17-sold-lethal-paracetamol-dose-Tesco.html

Everyone's an armchair expert on health economics. As a doctor, I can tell you that the service has been cut to the bone by a government that refuses to fund it properly. They've rebranded underfunding as overspending to make you think the NHS is wasteful. Our public health spend per capita is about three quarters of that in Germany and France... and they don't even cover their whole population.

All the stuff about health tourism and excessive waste is utter nonsense. Most money is spent on elderly patients and those with chronic conditions, and we've been shown to have the most efficient health service in the world.

Don't believe the rubbish you read in the tabloids and please, for god's sake, don't regurgitate it parrot-fashion. People will just think you're thick.

If you could do that we would be completely f**ked; you've heard about antibiotic resistance before right? Immunologically compromised people are already dying needlessly because Mr. or Mrs. Bloggs insist on getting antibiotics for their cold which has lasted 2 days.

Unfortunately a full dose of paracetamol is 8 tablets a day each pack lasts two days. You are only allowed to buy limited packs!!
It's the corrupt drug companies that need sorting!!
There are people and families where every penny counts.!! Just saying

Another tip for drugs, is check the PL number, ALL manufacturers have to by law, have it on the packaging, same PL across 2 products means exactly the same product, don't by nurofen and the like, supermarket own are often exactly the same at a snip of the cost.

The government **** it up unfortunately by bloating it with beaurocracy and underfunding it in an effort to break it down. None of those problems you list existed more than 6 years ago. I agree with you the system is now inefficient when it comes to elective services but it's not the fault of the NHS itself but the government. The people strangely, appear to not care because they keep voting in the clowns who are responsible.

I've had similar problems - the staff are all as qualified and competent as you'd expect but many specialist services have been cut to the bone in the name of "efficiency".

If you care that much you should donate to charity. That's a very hypothetical situation, no-one actually pays £8.20 for a pack of paracetamol unless they need a ton of it on the regular without anyone grilling them on why they need so much.

Thanks for the 'go back to your country' comment, it's always enjoyable to receive those. I guess they are consistent with the times we live in unfortunately.

Actually I also thought before, like you, that the UK was spending a lot less on its healthcare than other European countries. This used to be true but not anymore following the huge costs bloating of the NHS which took place in recent years. According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK spends 9.4% of its GDP on healthcare, compared to 9.1% in Finland, 9.6% in Sweden, 10.8% in Belgium and 11.3% in Germany - all of which have vastly superior healthcare systems to the UK.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2225rank.html#uk

Other people mentioned on this thread some of the excellent experiences they have had with the NHS. I have had occasionally some good experiences too, mostly due to having been fortunate enough to be treated by some high quality staff from time to time, albeit far from on a consistent basis. In general my view is not that the staff is unqualified, but more than the overall system is inefficient and does not provide an acceptable level of service for a developed country, particularly for non life threatening health issues. Most people living in the UK are used to this level of mediocrity and think it is 'normal'. If in one of the other European countries I mentioned, they decided to replace their current health system with the NHS overnight, people wouldn't put up with it, there would be riots.

I bet you live in sunderland.

how did these deal get so hot paracetemol has always been cheaper at asda :confused:

Why did it work so well under Blair (god bless his warmongering soul) then? Life expectancy hasn't gone up that much over the last 6 years...

The Tories got you all exactly where they want -ie arguing & fighting each other, whilst they and the royals and greedy rentiers continue to live cushy lives.

That might be good if I earned money from the post. I was just trying to draw people's attention to the cost of these generic drugs and try to ward off inappropriate attendances at ED's and GP's

I voted cold in error.. apologies... stupid bottle of wine and fat fingers on tiny iPhone screen... ohh... takeaways here... nom nom nom......

If the current pensioners have paid more in than they're taking out, where have all their payments in over their 50 years of work gone?

​No prescriber will give paracetamol tablets on prescription for a paying patient.

16p is too much for some people... Don't forget those who are exempt from prescription charges qualify for "care at the chemist" or the minor ailment scheme. That needs to be promoted more imo.

ps
OP I recommend you doing the lottery tomorrow - approaching 4000 degrees for tablets that have been 19p for ages, your luck may well continue.

Wow 6.6% for pharmacist, I know they sell other products hopefully with higher margins but I now know why the owners look so pi#sed off.

The issue is that single payer healthcare never works.

They do collect them back, they have an empty dustbin in most hospitals thats labeled for purpose to place them in - to then be recycled and checked they are safe to be sterilised and re used and have new grips placed on the bottom (safety issues with used crutches). The crutches also have a number on them via a sticker to call and they will collect them from you at your home if you can't be bothered to take them back. They rely on honest people who appreciate being loaned them to bring them back when not needed, or arrange for them to be collected. It's the ones that don't give a toss leave them in their homes and ultimately cost the NHS further wastage.

Yes, but that is an average of all drugs - not just paracetamol. They definitely aren't paying £5.60 for a pack of paracetamol that costs 19p everywhere else.

As someone mentioned above a cancer drug might cost £1,000 a week. In the same way that Paracetamol isn't costing £5.60 a pack - the cancer drug isn't £5.60 a pack either, yet both cost just £8.20 if they are prescribed.

If I personally wanted to contribute £8.01 to the people who need the money to help fund their cancer treatment - isn't that a good thing, rather than bad?

You would have to be quite dim to pay £8.20 for something that's available from the same counter for over £7 less, but would go back towards the pot roughly broken down as...

See my other comment above

The point is the ones who work and don't get free prescriptions wouldn't pay the charge for a paracetamol prescription. The point being made here is that the unemployed and benefit scroungers will be given a prescription for these type of items for free and it's the NHS that foots the bill costing it money. Especially when they are contractually obliged to get their medicines from a certain company and have to pay well over the odds for them themselves. However this is only the tip of the iceberg on an NHS being bled dry. The ones who contribute the most to the organisation end up suffering due to the inconsiderate nature of others. Services really are not what they should be and there needs to be serious reforms to stop this merry go round

Surely, if you pay £8.20 for prescription Paracetamol, the extra £8.01 goes into the NHS, increasing the amount of money they have to treat other people?

Buying a 19p pack from a supermarket will save YOU money, but have no effect on the NHS at all, other than reducing the amount of money they have available to treat other ailments.

Isn't that fairly obvious?

​Theyve been this cheap for a long time.

​They don't lose elections, they have them rigged.

People seem to forget that the Tories are under criminal investigation for irregularities in their 2015 election campaign, if they weren't trying to cover it up. They wouldn't have their slim 'majority' (used in the loosest term may I add) then.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indy100.com/article/where-tory-election-fraud-claims-are-being-investigated-in-one-map--bylZ35tQIXb%3famp

Voting Conservative and voting Ukip amounts to 2 sides of the same coin.

It's just like turkeys voting for Christmas.

stop going to the hospital for aspirin, who tf would do that anyway?

I almost fell for this!

But then realised you're trolling because you couldn't be vile or ignorant enough to think that there's no such thing as poverty in this country, not least because you're assured everyone who needs help is smoking.

Just read your post, got a flamedeer!

Yes finally someone with common sense. Great post, heat added :sunglasses:

I read through all of this and didn't even get a flamedeer :confused:

I completely agree with you. I think PrEP is crazy; taking medication that there's no clinical need for, is entirely unjustified, and unnecessary. In my opinion, PrEP will damage the health and immune system, of those taking it.

Your statement is entirely false. You do not know me.

Also, I do not have a horse, BUT you are indeed lectured on how to think - though not by me. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/sep/01/the-establishment-how-get-away-with-it-review-owen-jones
. . . . and we are not actually having the false discussion you are alluding to.

S you paint everyone with same brush?

Not sure how this really saves the NHS.

From what I have been able to find out the biggest cause of stress for the NHS has been the increasing number of elderly patients. Elderly people require NHS support far more often that younger people and that usage pattern rises significantly as they reach very old age. Additionally, the older someone is the longer it usually takes for them to recover and the more likely it is that they will have complicating conditions such as dementia. So NHS demand rises significantly as the population ages.

Since 1963 the number of people making it to 80 has doubled, the number making it to 90 has gone up by a factor of 5 and the number of people making it to 100 has gone up by a factor of 20.

There isn't an easy answer to this problem.

There was one semi-humorous article in the Economist entitled "Smoke for your Country" - based on research that proved that smokers had a lower lifetime cost for the NHS than non-smokers - they even had lower costs when averaged over their generally shorter lives. This was because smokers had a much higher risk of getting cancer and dying in their 50s and 60s. A few months of intensive cancer treatment is far cheaper to the NHS than years of on-going support in later life. People who complain that smokers cost the NHS £X billion per year and should have their treatment limited should at least be aware that those choosing not to smoke are the ones who will cost the NHS more.

BTW - I am not encouraging smoking. :-)

There was another post about the cost of foreign aid. It appears that the UK budget for foreign aid is around £12bn per year. That is equivalent to about 8% of the NHS budget or 1.5% of total UK government expenditure.

Agree also NHS is too soft to even hard negotiate with Pharma cos. more so busy looking after their dividends.

So I don't have to pay innit..

Well said. Pretty sure Lynton Crosby was the architect of that particular brand of divide and rule. The perfect daily mail wet dream!

to be honest you are better paying for private health care than using the NHS

I got in with Bupa in less than 2 weeks where as the NHS had a 6 month waiting list

Thanks for your kind words. We've been trying very hard to save a deposit on a property but with rents as they are it's really hard. I and my wife have just applied for Help to Buy and we hope it'll come through or the b******s next door will move. The last straw was my little 'un starting to swear recently (told his mum to **** off) and we know for a fact that he'd not have heard that from us. The lot next door are always in the garden and have an extensive swear vocabulary. The kids appear to be all under 10 so you really do feel for them.
People like tryn2help have never been in our situation so they get on their high horse and lecture us on how to think about the less fortunate. I'm sure there're millions of genuine benefit claimants who don't work because they cannot for health reasons, however there're also thousands like my neighbours who play the system nicely and get away with it, all the while turning their noses up at those who pay into the system and make their profligate lifestyles possible..

There is no such thing as real poverty in this country.

Food bank use is often unwarranted - they can give up the fags first.

No working people should have taxpayers money spent on them to top up their wages.

People should have to fend for themself more.

This flies in the face of the facts; We've got over a million people in this country forced to use foodbanks, we have over 4 million people ALL working but living below the poverty line - they're on zero hours or low wages, but they're ALL working and still in poverty. The majority of them are in that working but poverty stricken situation because they were forced into it by being persistently sanctioned and harassed daily by DWP staff under severe instructions from the government, but your neighbours have somehow escaped this and are driving around in their fairly new merc?

If your neighbours actually exist they are very much in a tiny and ever-decreasing minority somewhere in the region of 0.00001 of the population.
They are at the opposite end of a society which sees people doing the exact same as they do, but on a million times more massive scale, and they usually get a knighthood for it.

Read and learn who's really screwing you over; http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/establishment-how-get-away-with-kindle-edition-0-99-amazon-2570679

Think we should throw more money at it tbh

Again, this isn't how it works.

For most drugs (i.e. generic ones), the NHS will either put out tenders or buy the cheapest/best value in the marketplace. In addition, many NHS hospitals now have their own pharmacy manufacturing units where they self-produce many of the common drugs they use - selling any surplus to other hospitals.

With regard to proprietary meds for hospital use (which is where most of the drugs budget is spent), the NHS typically engages in fixed price contract purchasing i.e. it negotiates with pharma companies to buy a certain amount of product at an agreed price which cannot be increased during the contract.

The only time the NHS has a problem is when it needs a particular drug which is only available from one supplier (usually under a patent) and an alternative drug isn't readily available. In this instance, the supplier has a relative monopoly and can dictate the price it charges the NHS (as is the case in my post #605 above)

have you ever thought, that the more money you help to save the NHS, by buying cheap pills means more money they have to line their pockets or more money to pay locums or crappy projects that dont work out..!! :stuck_out_tongue: or

Hi
Thanks for sharing.
Some of us dont realise how lucky we are. I try and never forget like being born in the UK etc
No one should endure what you have shared in your post.
I hope things inprove ASAP.
Cheers

If you ask for the non-Lloyds brand, it is the same price as Sainsbury's. (More expensive than shop pack obviously, because of bigger pack in pharmacy. In fact it is cheaper to get paracetamol capsules from the Lloyds in sainsburys than from equivalent from sainsburys shop floor.)

Possibly, but I was thinking more or less along the lines of the mechanism involved in 'winning' an NHS suppliers contract' and how prices shoot up when they've got that contract.

As others have said I don't think this is much of the deal but appreciate the sentiment of the poster. The numbers of people exploiting this is very low and the NHS will buy all these drugs for tiny amounts although appreciate there are other costs to consider and anyone needing these drugs should really buy them themselves. They'd also save GPs a lot of time.

As already pointed out, if anyone buying these drugs under prescription is subsidising more expensive drugs.

The NHS is great value if you look at it from an individual users point of view, even a high earner would struggle to fund a serious illness care and drugs out of the national insurance they pay. The issue is some people don't like paying for the NHS when they are not ill.
I am pretty sure that if a private healthcare provider could run the NHS with its current budget then the government would let them. I think this will happen eventually but for a vastly larger budget.

i'm more concerned about the homeless, there is enough money going abroad to completely change aspects of our country, im confident of that without having to go into any validation of figures.

I'd agree there is more to fixing the NHS than pouring money into it, but scrutiny and change regarding masses of money leaving our shores will have a bigger financial impact than people buying their paracetamol rather than letting the nhs foot the bill, it was to juxtaposition the potential impact of this posts endevour to 'save the nhs' - and people saving the nhs money this way(if it even does) are hardly providing any other sort of benefit for the organisation either.

there is a serious amount of complexity to matters like this, I have neither the knowledge or will to try & discuss the entirety of them, especially right here.

Yeah, my oppressors are my non-working neighbours with 4 kids who live rent free (well, paid by yours truly) and throw fag butts out their front window and soiled nappies out the rear windows into their own garden. Unfortunately. the only property I could afford was next to them. See, I pay my rent out of my own pocket. At least I have the pleasure of admiring their 12-Reg Merc ML as I drive past theirs on my way to work 6 days a week.
On the plus side, there's apparently another bun in her oven and the Council will hopefully be forced to give them a larger property soon, as it would be against their Human Rights to put all the kids together in one room.
Out of interest, do you live in North London?

I dont think the NHS are being Heterophobic they just want to target the highest risk group for maximum effect I guess.
Interesting points you raise though.

I see your point, but I don't think this thread has been about cheap ASDA own medicine for the last 14 pages.

I can't figure out if his was by design by the Original Poster, or just a natural tangent that has spawned from a deal being posted.

Many herbal medicines have been looked at, tested, extracted and purified the compounds that work and made into medicine. We then improved the original compounds by adding side chains. Medicine is the advanced and modern form of herbalism. If the NHS found I don't know turmeric, homeopathic remedies, St. John's wort etc cured meningitis or appendicitis or whatever ails you, that's what would be being prescribed.

All medicines, whether herbal/natural or man made/synthetic, have the potential for side effects. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's safe/better and if something is artificial/synthetic it's bad/toxic etc. Vaccines are pretty artificial but very safe and effective. The NHS isn't part of a conspiracy.

They need to do a crutches etc 'amnesty'. They never collect them back after use. Lots of crutches, toilet frames etc in charity shops when finished with from people.

Surprised everyone is whining about 50p packets of Paracetamol, while the NHS will be paying £360 per month per person (or £4,320 each year) so that gay men who engage in "high risk" sex (i.e. typically without condoms) can be protected against HIV by taking an antiviral drug called PrEP.

10,000 people will be involved in a 3 year trial - potentially costing the NHS around 4320 x 3 x 10000 = £129,600,000 - although the "official" press releases claim the cost will be £10 - £20 million.

Without going off on any pro or anti gay tangents, this raises 2 really important questions:

1. Why should this trial be exclusively for gay men? There are many heterosexual / bisexual men and women who also engage in "high risk" unprotected sex. Why aren't they going to be offered access to PrEP as part of this trial? Surely this is totally discriminatory on grounds of gender or sexuality?

2. Is it fair for the NHS to be asked to fund preventative medication to the tune of £4,320 per person per year? Condoms, contraceptive pills and flu / travel vaccinations are relatively inexpensive. The argument for funding PrEP is that it's apparently cheaper paying £4,320 per person per year for prevention - instead of paying £350,000 (which is the lifetime cost of treating someone with HIV).

However, you could also use the same logic that the NHS should pay for everyone's gym memberships and fruit & veg - as this would reduce the burden on the NHS in the future. Or the NHS should provide addicts with free drugs, as this would cost the NHS & society less in the long term.

Kinda makes 50p for a packet of paracetamol seem quite minor.

Full article link: https://www.ft.com/content/8b1baa5c-b8b1-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

I'm going all out with savings for the NHS by not going - every time I end up in a Surrey hospital I end up even worse off lol

Utter crap, these are the voices of the manipulated millions of struggling hard working people who are being taught by their oppressors that someone other than their oppressors is responsible for their lives being such a horrendous struggle.

P.S. It's called 'divide and rule' - and this thread is a perfect example of how effective it is.

i dont use Paracetamol, but if i needed it and could get it for free than I would like anything else!

If people can't see the humour in that I feel sorry for them. Laughter is the best medicine.

You can not buy more than two paracetamol based items over the counter at one time its the law. Paracetamol brands like galpharm or supermarket own have always been extremely cheap. Using ibuprofen is bad for you as is most nsaid products. Although they may relieve pain at the time further complications of stripping the lining of you stomach will only end you back in hospital and giving the nhs more problems, when you end up needing Gastro clinic. For most it makes sense to look to herbal medicine and remedies. Our bodies were not designed for synthetic drugs. But big phama and the nhs have always known this.

I think properly means that if you're ill, you receive treatment. I don't believe you can attach arbitrary monetary figure to it.

Actually, do you have a source for this? To prove it's genuine?

I'm just looking at the Statistics on International Development 2015 report from the Department for International Development, and it says that:

"..in 2014 the top three recipients of UK bilateral ODA were Ethiopia (£322 million), India (£279 million) and Pakistan (£266 million)."

So if that's one year, it seems a little hard to believe that the other four years (and that's a maximum, because we're assuming your table includes spending in 2016 which it probably doesn't) figures could be:

"Ethiopia (£3532.4 million), India (£3221.1 million) and Pakistan (£3508.6 million)."

..as you've posted? Maybe you have indeed posted real figures - but there's no source, and it seems hard to think that those over four years (probably less) could've brought the total up to ten times the amount of 2014 spending.

Well said my friend, well said. These are the sentiments of the silent millions who work had to pay into the system day in and day out but sadly whose voices will never be heard.

Yes, I'm an immigrant, who sells stolen goods for profit which I spend on running my BMW to get to the dole office where I limp in and sign on and claim my disability allowance, then off to the docs to claim my free paracetamol whilst sending some of my benefit to my lesbian cousin in Poland to raise her 14 kids she has with her immigrant partner who is recovering from breast enhancement surgery she received for free in a Middlesex hospital, she attended by NHS chartered helicopter, and whilst recovering in the UK after the surgery she stayed in a park lane hotel in London with a chauffeur service to run her to her check ups.


Stop believing everything you read.

You'll be a happier person.

I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.

No, the real question is; is the NHS value for money?

Are they being ripped off by suppliers - including equipment suppliers, drug suppliers, etc?

And would privatising it stop the rip-offs or increase the rip-offs?

Agreed that there will always be more wonderful treatments to be offered...the point I was making is that there wouldn't be a "crisis" of delivering current services, if the NHS had more resources.

Enough to look at the results of EU Ref, no need to go to HUKD to figure it out.

I'm not against privatising, but not at any cost.
There will definitely won't be enough money after we leave the EU as we expected to have deficit of a further £60bn, thanks to the Leavers.

If you hate NHS so much why no go back to your own country? Also what country are you from because most EU countries actually pay lot more for healthcare than here.

So many Neanderthals in this thread!

Wow! I can't believe that this is what "Great Britain" has come to!

I bet you're fun at parties

Privatising it will make costs go up not down.

May I ask which country this is? I'd quite like to move there!

Think you'll find that it wasn't everybody who voted for austerity...

Firstly, "not enough money" is not the primary problem in the NHS - it's where and how that money is being spent. Do you think that if we stopped spending on foreign aid, we could just buy more doctors? We already have to rely heavily on medical staff from abroad (which Brexit may substantially threaten) because we don't have enough of our own.

Are you also proposing that we shouldn't spend money on anything else until "our NHS is fixed"? There can be no spending on anything else until then? Do you not understand how foreign aid is important and is an investment for us too? We don't just it to countries out of the kindness of our hearts.

And the reason I made it clear that it was many years' worth of money is because when you add up something over time, it looks worse than if it's just on a yearly timeframe. Bigger numbers can make people angrier - which is exactly what it's used to do - and anger is a good motivator to get people to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do.

Like buy newspapers, blame immigrants for things, vote to leave institutions which make their lives better and elect businessmen to power who are going to drive their wages even lower into the dirt.

Yes lets punish jobseekers and add more misery to already misreable life. Despite what the press have you believe (obviously can't think for yourself) most people are not smoking fags and spending money on big screen tvs. A very few minority of people are but as usual being blown as a majority. Most people want to work and can't even ****ing afford fags or tvs on money they get on JSA. Most people are trying their damn hardest.

You are a real piece of work!

so very expensive musical chairs then

It needs privatising.

I cannot continue to exist in its current form.

There will never be enough money. Ever.

I read somewhere that medical experts have always said these drinks are entirely unnecessary, and that the only thing in them proven to help is the paracetamol, thus two paracetamol pills equals the exact same effect at a fraction of the price (Think 'Which' magazine also ran an article on this point).

Already paying National insurance and too much tax, y should I pay privately while those thieves get EVERYTHING for free? Hopefully you are not one of them..

Plus the Tory government who wants to privatise it

Not the first time I've heard such things.

Foreign friends have often expressed disappointment with their experiences of our health service.

Discussing an ailment with a Kurdish chap running his own business here, he surprised me when he said he went to Belgium to get his operation. This well-traveled man poured scorn on our NHS saying it was one of the worst systems he'd experienced.

Their views surprise me because they contradict my own experience of the NHS, whom I am thankful for saving my life.
If it wasn't for the NHS I most probably wouldn't be here; the treatment I got when I had a heart attack and again when I had a stroke undoubtedly saved my life.

Far better than BBCs 'Question Time'

I hope everyone sees the humour in this. Sadly I don't think everyone will.

I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.

I already have to pay over a hundred quid a year for my medication, so why wouldnt I get my asprin included in that

​Well, if you dislike the NHS so much why not return to "your country" for superior health care?

The Tesco cold & flu tablets are excellent

The "max strength" cold and flu tablets are a bit of a rip off. Most have 1000 mg of paracetamol, with just some caffeine, and a decongestant added. I get a similar effect taking 2 paracetamol, some strong coffee, and a cheap antihistamine.
P.S This is a good deal, I have my stock in already.

Why should anyone put up with pain if they don't have to? Clearly you haven't experienced enough pain in your life. "Some cases" :laughing: "Don't take medication for colds" hilarious.

Well, I find it amazing that this 'deal' is getting 3,500 degrees+. I voted cold for this deal. I am a foreigner living in this country for 20 years, and compared to what I was used to in my home country, my view is that the NHS is a complete piece of crap (made up, in parts, of well meaning and competent staff) and should be dismantled. In my home country in continental Europe, the health care spending as a percentage of GDP is about the same as in the UK. Yet for the same cost, the level of service we get in my home country is a million miles better than the NHS (think the difference between a Rolls Royce and a Lada).

A few examples from personal experience:

- when my wife had to go to ER recently for a very serious issue, due to NHS budgetary issues, she wasn't offered a scan even though it was a potentially life threatening emergency. We had to go private the next day to do the scan. There is no way this would have happened in my home country, and we wouldn't have had to wait four hours to be told this.

- in my country, when a baby is sick, you get to see a pediatrician straight away, i.e. same day, without GP referral. Here last time my baby daughter was sick, we went to GP, then waited several days, then were told that we had a pediatrician appointment in 5 weeks. We ended up having to go private as we wouldn't take the chance with the health of our daughter.

- in my country, when a woman gives birth, a doctor is present during the birth, and if a woman thinks that the best thing to do for her is to have a caesarean, she can have one paid for by the state healthcare system. In this country, no doctor shows up during the pre birth period or during the birth itself unless something goes seriously wrong (at which point it may be too late), and unless you pay £15K or so to go private, forget about a c section in most cases, even with valid medical reasons such as having a very large baby.

- in my country, you get annual health checkups paid for by your state health insurance. Under the NHS you only get to see a doctor when you're already sick. Talk about preventive medicine!

Truly, I hope the Stalinist state-controlled NHS goes bust and gets replaced by a properly functioning, efficient healthcare system along the lines of what most of the rest of Europe has had for years. I don't think this will ever happen in my lifetime sadly.

What a stupid self righteous and self indulgent OP... I know it's meant with good intentions, but get real, you obviously no nothing about NHS prescribing, and the only thing that will truly save the NHS, is money, which the Tories are cutting as of when they can.

I'm not confusing anything , and who said it was for a year

A lot of money going out of our country that could be used to 'save the nhs from bankrupcy' and also deal with the countries homeless crisis, its disgusting.

3 and a half thousand degrees for paracetamol that has been this price for years. What the actual f&%k is going on here!
This site deserves to be destroyed now.
I bet the op is laughing his t#ts off. (medication for which available on prescription)

Some contradiction there - you exclaim about fighting for our own country and give two examples of fighting in someone elses!

Do not confuse "poor spending on foreign aid" with "all spending on foreign aid is bad."

Foreign aid, even when it isn't tied to benefits to us (which it often is) is an investment in global security. Many of these countries would slip into civil war and be taken over by despots which would cost us far more than this, which is only a fraction of total government spending. Plus those figures are aggregated from 2011, rather than what we spend in a year.

As I've said before in this thread: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We'd never spend government money on anything and be all the lesser for it.

I always buy supermarkets own cheap versions of paracetomol as they are just the same. Perfectly fine. Even been confirmed by doctors on tv before too.

Dont be a mug by paying extra for the expensive branded ones. Get the cheap ones

I am pretty sure that the reason this "deal" is getting so much heat is because people feel like they're voting to "save the NHS," which is obviously (and rightly, imho) a subject which people are very passionate about it.

However the right way to do this is to treat the political process with the respect it deserves - and that means scrutinising your local candidates who run for MP, actually voting, holding them to account when they're elected and then respecting them when they do what it is a hard job right. If you don't follow those steps from the very start, the process doesn't work, and then we'll wonder why we end up with governments who don't seem to care what happens to us and let us scapegoat other people (immigrants, the EU etc.).

"In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve."
- Joseph de Maistre

Really...this is hardly a deal is it? for those who pay, its common sense to buy things at pharmacy cost if avble under the £8 prescription line fee

Why someone gets prescription for free/abuses the system/NHS is stretched.....has no place here and just encourages keyboard warriors....Admin ought to be ashamed:disappointed:

What are you talking about its only a bit of spare change !

Is anyone actually getting paracetamol, ibuprofen, or aspirin on prescription?

beats joining the back of an A&E queue with people with graised knees and runny noses wasting everyones time for 4 hours at a time. hot!

I work in pharmacy and can tell you nearly every other prescription has paracetamol on.It is probably in the top 20 most prescribed items in England.It's one of the easiest and safest way's for GP's to get patients out of the door & onto the next patient.

I pre pay for my prescriptions around £100 a year. Following a stroke in my 30's I am on medication for life including an aspirin a day, and although it would be more convenient to collect it with my other meds I buy it separately from Home Bargains or somewhere similar for around 50p for a months supply

good post op. You need to be looking out for the PL product license number. Many of the supermarket own brand medications are exactly the same as the branded ones,. If the PL number is the same, it's the same formulation.

The NHS cost IS NOT £8.20 for a 0.19p box of paracetamol. This is total NONSENSE.

I'll repost my earlier post, as you seem to have missed it.

Let's start off with some solid facts. According to the British National Formulary (aka BNF) which provides prices for virtually all NHS medication, the NHS current cost for 16 generic paracetamol tablets is £0.48 and £0.78 for 30 tablets.

It's fair to say supermarket prices may be a little cheaper, but they are often selling commonly used meds as loss leaders to get people into their stores. However, the NHS is most definitely NOT "paying 30 times the actual price".

Here's the BNF costing for Paracetamol:



HTH :wink:

In agreement, OP. Thanks for posting!

Totally applaud the OP's aim and message. I just bought paracetamol from Aldi for 19p! Ibuprofen is similarly priced. But sadly even if everyone bought their own painkillers, it won't in any way save the NHS from bankruptcy and that's ignoring the fact all in Scotland, Wales and NI get free prescriptions.

NHS budget 2015/16- £114 billion http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
£80 million spent on paracetamol. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33055847 Assume it's £240m with ibuprofen and aspirin.
Percentage saving of the annual budget would be an infinitesimal 0.002%.

A massively bigger issue is the epidemic in obesity, alcohol consumption levels, inactivity and related disease from these risk factors, combined with population growth and longer life span.

I had open heart surgery and after you have finished on the industrial strength pain killers it is common to use paracetamol to manage the pain. I took 200 over a month or so - we did start out by collecting them from different shops, but after a week or so the doctor told us to stop being stupid and just gave us loads :-) As you are often collecting other drugs from the pharmacy it is just simpler.

I imagine this is true for many operations.

Someone mentioned earlier about those coming here purely for medical treatment they're not entitled to - a true story to help explain why it might be more widespread than people think.
I knew a female teacher when I was working abroad, and she told me she wanted to live in Britain, and also that she had a serious medical problem she couldn't discuss with me.
I explained that a pre-existing condition might prevent her from getting treatment here, as that was being discussed back then, around fifteen years ago - not to worry she replied, she had been diagnosed by a private doctor so it wouldn't be on her official records, (private medical checks being fairly cheap in some countries).
She ended up marrying a British doctor she met online, he flew to a different city from her home, never meeting her friends or family until after the wedding - he didn't have much free time and she of course wanted to prevent him from discovering about her health.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, if anyone out there knows Yordanka (Danny/ Dani for short), married to a doctor who comes from a family of doctors or other medical people, probably still teaching, and with at least one child who would now be at least twelve years..........her inlaws would perhaps be surprised to know that the love she married for, was not love for their son, but love of the free medical help his passport provided.
I know her original surname and other details to verify the story which it would be unfair to reveal on here, but it has made me wonder for all these years just how many others are living here in similar circumstances i.e. they only 'discover' their medical problem a while after arriving and settling here and becoming entitled to free treatment ?

Not on prescription as such but when I've had stays in hospital for things like complications with kidney stones I've been given big boxes of Ibuprofen (and much stronger painkillers) by the doctors when I've been discharged.

Why is it that the 'government' is so idiotic in things like this? This seems insane that its public knowledge but yet, still going on?
Is the Head of Pharmaceutical Supply for the NHS also the CEO of the pharmaceutical companies supplying?
If a box 12 paracetamol costs 0.19p to your average Joe, but yet the same box an extortionate amount more to the NHS? How's this justified?

On the rare occasion I have to have meds prescribed, I ask if there is a generic product I can purchase myself! £8.20 for a 0.19p box of paracetamol!
No wonder cannabis is still illegal, someone has all our pants down!

indeed lol

this post = Brexit anomaly :smile:

Don't forget Aldi and Lidl have generic Paracetamol.

Appreciate the sentiment but assuming most of the votes/comments purely to catch these piggin' flamedeers!

I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.

Perhaps if we stopped being something like the third largest donor of overseas aid in the world and spent the money on our own, the situation would be better. Instead, it's funding shopping malls in Nairobi (£15m), Daraz (Pakistani version of Amazon) £32m, Online Gaming platform in Singapore....
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/consultants-take-billions-from-foreign-aid-budget-hw7b6bk3f

i assure you - one day you will surely fit into one of the very same categories you mention ie losers, minorities, freaks and foreigners.

Its not just the drugs themselves. You need to add on the cost per prescription of the chemist handing out the prescription & other charges along the way.

Agree 100% with you. I choose not to smoke. You choose to smoke. But in regards to tobacco tax, can you imagine the tax shortfall should the country quit smoking tomorrow...

But what % of those claiming pensions spent their whole lives paying IN to the system?

I would imagine the pension payout minus the pension paid in by those who are claiming it is a lot less than the unemployment benefits payout minus the TAX/NI contributions paid in by those claiming that.

So yes, the pension amount may be xxx higher, but those people spent years paying in whereas the enemployed sector pay in nothing

If I'm paying taxes, I should have the right to smoke, not exercise and get free treatment, tobacco tax is extortionate aswell.

My side has won everything important over the last 18 months - so yes I guess I am one of the winners.[/quote

There it is! You think you have won but in actual fact we all lose and the 1% win! The art of deception. In was done in plain sight and yet you can't see how it was done!

This is the most bizarre hot rated post I've seen :confused: I understand the point about generic medicines and considered it common knowledge. (Until seeing the heat on this deal for usual price items. )Still can't work out how the Saving the NHS money part is related ?

I think people who are are exempt from paying fees usually try to take advantage of it. I'm exempt because of my epilepsy but I always buy my painkillers from Wilkos etc. What about the money from from Boris and Nigel's bus too? Nobbers! Excellent post and should be shared over more than just hotukdeals because I don't care what some people say the NHS is brilliant and the flack the workers get is atrocious!

Locums are selfish people and believe it or not many of them build up their experience working under nhs until a day comes when they realise that they can now dictate their own terms/hours etc and get paid between 8-10 times more for their services (Quote me on this) I have worked across many NHS trusts and have seen their records/spend. The patterns across all these trusts have been the same sometimes the trusts overspend knowing fully well that its an opportunity for the future. They can revisit this area and just produce some savings by offloading for a few months and later rehire due to demand. As for the full time staff HR and finance department hardly care about them as they know too well that staff who have been with them on a long term basis wouldn't dare to think about moving especially the ones who have seen the days when nhs jobs were seen as jobs for life now these are the ones who are paid peanuts. Agencies/Locums/Contractors are the ones who are sucking more money out of NHS than necessary.

I don't know if you realise Locums have various expertise levels, some can be junior doctors, some can be consultant level with 15-20+ yrs of experience. Just to break it to you in a more simple term if a trust has a clinician who is paid £20 hourly rate the same clinician when filling up the same post as a locum charges £160 -200 per hour, knowing fully well that NHS would pay them in order to meet the demand/need.

The NHS is the most cost effective health service in the word.

My side has won everything important over the last 18 months - so yes I guess I am one of the winners.

Oh dear. I guess your a real winner then??? . Ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately for you and many others like you we all lose and the 1% win

If you really want to help, comment/reject/refuse the threads posted on HotDeals which encourage people to get common items from their GP, including nit combs and headlice treatments.

It's obscene the prescription system is used for ibuprofen. I've only become aware of this gravy train in the last few years; it would never, ever have occurred to me to a) seek such things at a doctor or even b) go to a doctor with something so minor the cure was aspirin. They've thankfully clamped down on doling out gluten-free cake to people, now they can crack down on this.

Locums are selfish people and believe it or not many of them build up their experience working under nhs until a day comes when they realise that they can now dictate their own terms/hours etc and get paid between 8-10 times more for their services (Quote me on this) I have worked across many NHS trusts and have seen their records/spend. The patterns across all these trusts have been the same sometimes the trusts overspend knowing fully well that its an opportunity for the future. They can revisit this area and just produce some savings by offloading for a few months and later rehire due to demand. As for the full time staff HR and finance department hardly care about them as they know too well that staff who have been with them on a long term basis wouldn't dare to think about moving especially the ones who have seen the days when nhs jobs were seen as jobs for life now these are the ones who are paid peanuts. Agencies/Locums/Contractors are the ones who are sucking more money out of NHS than necessary.

​where exactly are you getting these from?

I love the NHS. But it should be more like a (free) house insurance policy. You look after your house, maintain it, lock the doors etc the insurance company will look after you.

If you choose to binge eat, smoke, do drugs, do little or no exercise or drink excessive amounts of booze; when it finally goes ***s up for you, you should be liable for any costs incurred.

If however you look after yourself, drink within the guidelines, don't smoke or do drugs. The NHS should be there to help you.

This thread is just barmy 3000+ heat for absolute common sense. This sort of nonsense belongs on mumsnet.

Nothing to be worry about:
- after the brexit NHS will be getting £350 million a week :smile::smile::stuck_out_tongue::smile:

cold...it's free in the dole :smile:

You'd rather be associated with a failure than a success. Figures...

Corbyn and everything he stands for is for losers, minorities, freaks and foreigners.

Whilst that may have been the case a few years ago, I rather suspect from some of the screen names and statements in various threads, that things have changed....... almost as if it had been orchestrated somehow. There's another little conspiracy theory for someone to investigate. The number of truly free speech forums is getting less as time goes on, as evidenced by the amount of debate on here, mostly due to the lack of truly free speech elsewhere online I feel.

Save the NHS, stop going in with the slightest thing wrong.

yes we should because they are doing a fantastic job of running the country aren't they

​simply not true.

Utter rubbish - when 'the right wing' lose an election or come second in a vote, do they take to the streets and wave placards to demand another vote ? It's mostly the lefties who cannot abide losing a democratic vote you'll find.
The same with the states - if Trump had lost, would his supporters have rioted ?
When anyone with a vaguely right wing view gives their opinion, the classic response is to call them a racist or Nazi, to try and demonise them - the 'racists' and other 'xenophobic' people you'd love to deport are usually British citizens whose ancestors lived here a thousand years ago, and fought for their country.
Can you imagine the charge of the light brigade with no riders, or the mission at Rorke's Drift empty when the Zulu warriors arrived, because Brits had decided to run away and claim asylum or seek refuge somewhere ?
Why this once-great nation gives shelter to male cowards who cannot be bothered to fight for their own country is beyond me.

Same difference.

Err, didn't you realise that most HUKD members are traditionally UKIP voters?


:wink:

Brilliant picture!!!

I guarantee that the majority posting in here vote Tory and yet complain that the NHS is 'at its knees' as a result of Tory budget cuts and creeping privatisation of services.

you took the words right out of my mouth to paraphrase meatloaf ,
the problem with the NHS it is trying to help many people who have no means or intention of ever getting a job in order to pay back into the system ,
and is also paying the drug companys (cartels) over the top for drugs medicines in the name of development when the same generic items are available cheaper elsewhere
rant over

Rational argument? Statements are easy to make without credible facts and data.

The sooner the NHS goes, the better... the private system is better, you get better care and as long as the government enforces competition and not what the US has, then prices come down. Yes it means you only get heath care if you have a job or excused because you're unable to work, but I prefer that as I don't want to pay for drunks, obese people and the lazy jobless.

When you're a child your parents pay, when you're retired you've earnt the right for free healthcare under your pension and when you're ill you have the right too, as you need to get better to go back to work.

The NHS only protects bums.

Crap, sorry, forgot.

if we voted to remain, the NHS would be a perfect institution. Leaving the EU is going to cause us to lose all our cheap labour and cause costs to sore.

Sorted.

Brexit is a smokescreen to what's really going on in this country.

I'm surprised no one has blamed this on Brexit yet.........

:wink:

If you think Labour being in power is going to solve the countries issue, then you really need to give your head a wobble.

Personally, I feel I am paid rather well for the work I undertake!

Again, see why I gave my initial comment :smiley:

In the UK, yes, you have to be earning more (obviously).

If only the people would wake up
and see the truth! Maybe we could have a real revolution instead of the one that is being orchestrated by the right wing! These are scary times we are living in.

I have never voted Conservative, and everyone thinks they are underpaid.

Apologies, Sir. I tend to think of things on a global scale (as I have done here). Whilst you are looking at the UK top 1%, I was thinking the global 1% :smiley:

Exactly!!! The Corporate controlled press have the people convinced that the Torys are the party of economic security which in fact couldn't be further from the truth! I wish that the Labour Party would use this argument more. The trouble is the working majority have been dumbed down so much that they cant understand.

Please try again, to be in the top 10% you have to be earning £78,208 or more https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/adhocs/005220grosshouseholdincomebyincomedecilegroupuk2014 The top 1% will be considerably higher.

I've come to the wrong site - can someone direct me to the site which has good deals please.

Interesting that you should refer to the Railways. What about the telecommunications sector as an example? Have you ever worked in a public sector environment? It is like a throwback to the 1970s, not unlike our hospitals.

Heat added

I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard, my guests could think in a peasant.

Again, you can link me to articles all you like. There was already a sharp increase happening. Let me give you an example.

Year 1: £100 borrowing
Year 2: £100 borrowing
Year 3 (crisis): £300 borrowing
Year 4 (crisis continues): £500 borrowing

Suddenly, in one year, you've borrowed an equal amount to what the last three years cost. Now imagine that the Conservative's only came in to power in year 4; the sharp increases due to the crisis had already started, and HAD to continue.

"That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital."
Noam Chomsky,

That's the funniest thing I've read all year. Scotland is the most indebted country per head in the UK and it has a massive deficit. Head out the sand time for you.

I disagree. To make a job worth doing you have to pay a decent wage. Stress and anxiety resulting from overworking, and not forgetting low pay which adds pressure outside work too, lead to laziness and skiving. Anyone who thinks any differently votes Conservative, and subscribes to the "I'm all right, Jack" perspective on life.

Funny how people always assume the profit driven private sector can deliver services better...I mean it's worked for the railways hasn't it...
It's private companies that are overcharging the NHS for certain drugs. I recently heard the head of a private care home group demanding that the government had to make more of a contribution. When asked about the £100k+ bonus he'd recently given one of his executives his response was 'well it's a business'. Well it shouldn't be. The private sector has many strengths but healthcare isn't one of them. That's me off my soapbox.

Sigh.. you do realise the richest 1% includes absolutely everyone over about £25,000 a year, right?

Jeez the absolute ignorance on this thread from people who clearly have been brainwashed by the mainstream media is incredible...

which subsidises the cost of the more expensive medicines !

That has nothing to do with laziness and skiving.

Cold. This will not solve the NHS's problems. Self medicate if you must and your local pharmacy can help you determine if that's appropriate, but never be afraid to "bother" your GP. Many serious conditions are diagnosed at too late a stage.

Many people forget that before the financial crisis, the Tories were calling for far wider reaching deregulation of the financial sector than New Labour introduced.

And the Tories have in fact made the deficit worse

If people only understood basic economics they would realize that Tory Blair and Thatcher, Cameron and May are all the same beast. They all employed Friedman economics over Keynesian. Friedman right wing economics=deregulation of financial services which in turn left it open for looting and fraud hence the financial crisis of 2008. Prior to Thatcher and Regans era Keynesian economic policy was the norm. All the financial services were heavily regulated and we had very little debt. Jeremy Corbyns and Labour under his leadership want a return to
Keynesian econic policy. All of the big Corporations are up
In arms about it because they will have to pay their taxes and they won't get away with offshore accounting any more! Let's not forget that the papers that criticize and hate Corbyn are also owned and Controlled by just three big Corporations!

The NHS are also too soft on genuinely bad employees... lazy, skiving, and getting away with it because it's incredibly difficult to get rid of them without giving them a good reference and packing them off to another department in the NHS. I've seen this happen on both the clinical and administrative sides.

A minority of employees, of course, but a significant one.

Too many people are burying their heads in the sand in blinkerd praise of the NHS in its current form to protest against privatisation, and whilst I don't want to see it privatised, I do want to see it run far more efficiently.

Nice

​no. Scotland, Wales and NI get a block grant. It can't spend more than that. It can't borrow and thus have a deficit.
If you're being semantic then it is a kind of deficit but not the deficit as in comparison to Greece as the original poster said.

So you don't agree with paying taxes to light the streets, pay for policing, or provide social services? To put out fires, to take away your rubbish, to look after your elderly? To pay for national defence, to pay for a voice?

i agree the nhs bleeds money but it will NEVER be declared bankrupt :smiley: .but if being a drama queen gets you a good heat youve succeeded...heat added :wink:

Er, a deficit?

That's actually a very weak argument. The Financial Crisis caused a sharp rise in the deficit (when Labour were in power, but I won't blame them for the FC..) - it was always going to be the case that the deficit would continue increasing for a number of years, as you can't suddenly make it disappear.

Couldn't agree more. I've being buying non branded asprin, paracetamol and ibuprofen for years. Think my last box of paracetamols was 16p from Tesco

Capitalism is the only legal means of theft. Minimum wage should be enough that that risk/reward balance looks less enticing. Unfortunately with Neoliberalism they pit the poor against the poorer to justify paying all the poor naff all, while the richest 1% are laughing all the way to the bank.

​ do you think this contradicts me? Scotland has no borrowing powers. Scotland spends it's budget.
As for this deficit as a % of gdp thing. That's true. Scotland currently spends more than it generates in revenue. Most regions in the UK do. Scotland also contributed more than it took out for decades and its under-performing economy (though still out performing most UK regions) is on the back of deindustralisation that successive UK governments haven't dealt with - as is the case also in the north, Wales, etc.

It might be worth noting that every time a Doctor write a prescription for Paracetamol and you pay your £6-something at the Pharmacists to get it, then the NHS is effectively getting some money back from you....which is good for NHS, really.

Not that anyone would ever do this...

Great post everybody knows big companies profiteer where nhs is concerned. Thing is it needs to be sorted from the inside out. Managers in NHS need to be given chance to purchase the cheapest product where possible and not tied in to stupid tenders!!

Agreed. Tory Blair was just a tiny cog in a vast machine. A corporate puppet. Colonialism, resource theft, state sponsored terrorism and an uneasy alliance with a certain dodgy oil Monarchy. Them throw Russia into the Mix and let's not forget Turkey.

I wish I could like this comment a thousand times.

And the Tories have in fact made the deficit worse.

Erm, surely paying £7.20 in prescription charges for Paracetamol and Ibupfrofen that cost the NHS about 19p a packet is doing the exact opposite of bankrupting the NHS. It is in fact funding them to the tune of £7.01.

Doctors really give prescriptions for paracetamol? Only makes sense to bother in Wales or if you're eligible for free prescriptions.

Its not the patients bankrupting the NHS its the many levels of managers and contractors that pay themselves extortiante amounts for ghost contract.

Whilst I won't deny TB's part in the creation of ISIS, I would argue it is something that can actually be routed all the way back to the Empire, where we did a fine job of encouraging Taliban ideology in north India.

Whether one supports that argument or not, ISIS is a creation of decades of mismanagement of the Middle East; both from within and on the outside.

"The gap between Scotland’s spending and revenue represents a net fiscal deficit of £14.8bn including notional share of oil revenues, or 9.5 per cent of GDP, according to Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland 2015-16 (GERS) figures published this morning."

Really? https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/scotland%E2%80%99s-fiscal-deficit-over-twice-uk%E2%80%99s-percentage-gdp

Also no top of that you have also people spending their money on abroad holidays. Should you forbid that because they should spend money here ? The same with buying stuff abroad.

"It's Jeremy Corbyn"
Thanks for the compliment.
Better JC than Tory Blair the war criminal who created the deficit and gave us Isis

Great idea for a post!

Risk vs reward makes the life of a criminal/drug dealer less than enticing for many. Doctors can go on to earn an excellent salary; our education system is the reason we NEED Asian doctors (whom are often superb) - not the alternative 'career' paths available.

you did hot mentioned how to sooth hungry NHS bosses with what amount of money? :sunglasses: _

Bloody hell - it's Jeremy Corbyn.


Someone who clearly hates our country, its native people and its proud history while sticking up for foreigners and minorities all the time.
Your lot have been found out mate - you're going the way of the dodo.

You are right about sending money, but we don't know exact number really. You would need to check how much money you gain and loose. If for example somebody is sending home £300, but £1300 spends here is it good or bad for UK economy. Would you like it to be 0 ?

You also can't say that you will be able to force people to work when you have so low unemployment rate. There is no country with 0 unemployment rate, there will be always some ammount of people that doesn't want to work. You can only try to make this amount as small as possible.
Another thing is that if you have so many foreigners and still unemployment is low than what would happen if you wouldn't have those 2 millions of workers. It does not need to be good for the economy and instead of being better it could be worse. You should also remember that UK population is ageing. This means that without immigrant you would much less people in working age.

Also because this is about NHS I can tell you that many foreigners go and pay for private treatment abroad and not use the NHS as it doesn't work to well now. This means that healthcare of those people cost you less than healthcare of Brits.

In my opinion the main thing is to stop people from abusing social systems. It would force more Brits to work and also would make immigration more valuable as only people that want to work would come here.

I am very serious and I am British and I still live in Xenophobic Britain. I can tell you from personal experience that when the NHS saved my daughters life. She was nine at the time. I don't know if it was a coincidence but I can honestly say that the best quality care,advice we got was from the foreign or to be more specific Asian consultants and doctors. I appreciate all NHS staff so much and that includes British and foreign. The people I would love to deport from the U.K. Are the racists and Xenophobic ingnorant brain dead morons.

Haha, if there was ever a need for academic evidence that we were in a post fact society, it would be this thread!

Your post makes no sense....
A prescription costs £8.40, if you get Paracetamol on prescription then nearly all the £8.40 goes towards subsidising the more expensive prescriptions which cost more then £8.40.
So every time you buy Paracetamol from anywhere other then the NHS your making the NHS loose £8.40.

Your right about not wasting the doctors time, I just don't think you understand how the prescription system work.

Are you serious - I'm glad you're not living here any longer ? The best doctors are Indian..... you're 'avin' a laugh ! Have you not read about the number of overseas workers who cannot speak fluent English, and as a result people have died ?
We need to train more staff for the nhs and make them feel valued, like they were many years ago, when it was almost an honour to work in a hospital.
When criminals earn more than a policeman, and drug dealers earn more than a doctor, how can you expect someone living amongst pondlife to think it's a good career move to clean a toilet in a hospital, never mind spend years training to be a nurse or a surgeon ?

​Scotland has no debt and is not allowed a deficit. Perhaps try not just making stuff up.

Your administration in Scotland has increased government debt as percent of GDP to levels worse than Greece. That is not caring for people. That is guaranteeing people will suffer in the future when you cannot borrow any more money to fund your economy. Sturgeon has screwed you all and you don't even know it.

In my opinion, this is a very good post
I am glad that someone had the courage to post this and to remind people not to take things for granted even if its the "hated" NHS.

What would some of us do if there was no NHS anymore.
If we can help it then lets avoid relying onto the NHS.
As individuals we could make an impact no matter how small and leave the resources to people who have no other option but to rely on NHS.

If the lazy Brits were forced to work (not those with a genuine problem which prevents them from working) then we could easily do without half or more of the present day overseas workforce.
Fact is that many foreign workers send some money 'back home' to friends and relatives, which would likely be spent in Britain if a local person was forced to do the job, in addition to the worker usually needing less medical help as they would be physically and mentally healthier and happier, so costing the nhs less money.
All in all it really needs a government which will reduce the advantage of staying unemployed and allowing someone from overseas to do the job instead, although they pay taxes, the unemployed Brit is costing money whilst the foreigner often sends money abroad - I live in a smallish place where foreigners, both working and asylum seekers, are sending money overseas from a local post office...... it's a fact as myself and others have been standing behind them whilst they are giving the details to counter staff.

The NHS in it's current form is a dead duck, the sooner it goes the better. Free at the point of need - yes, provided by the public sector, no.

Working people fighting with other working people about there is a problem with the NHS. We voted for austerity and that's what we're getting. If you don't like it, emigrate.

Who alive right now colonized and took over countries? Was it only Britain that colonized other countries?

​No doubt the same community has its fair share of rent to buy shops? its easy to buy all those luxuries when it cost fiver a week..

The pound sign goes before numbers, not afterwards. We're not in continental Europe!

"Benefit scroungers" are the reason the prices you and I pay are going up and up. because them "scroungers" are not paying so much to the likes of Sky and Virgin Media and such. those and other companies are seeing a big fall in income. so they make us non "benefit scroungers" pay more!

multiply this over a wide range of services and goods. and we'll soon be paying double for everything because them "benefit scroungers" are not buying anything anymore!

cheapskates! :smiley:

The day they're all given just bread and water. companies and services all over the country would just fold and collapse due to no income from the bread and water people.

excellent post, one of my big gripes is that our government is paying 30 times the actual price to supply these cheap items on prescription. i go through lots of children's paracetamol and ibuprofen but buy them from home bargains for£1 a bottle. they would cost the nhs maybe 6 times that. wasted money.

I use the excellent http://www.myrepeats.com service so saves going to surgery and getting a prescription and get that contagious bug mentioned earlier while waiting to see over worked GP.
All chemists should offer this service.
I also think telephone (ideally video facetime, skype etc) consultations should be increased by GPs to save time money and the upset of being say elderly getting a bus and waiting to see GP while unwell.
My mum can Skype and she is 83 years

The NHS wouldn't be able to run without foreigners. All the best doctors are Indian etc. 1.5 million Brits in Spain a lot of whom including myself have used European healthcare and services for free. We are a nation of migrants ourselves. Australia was stolen from the Aborigines, The US and Canada belonged to the Native Americans. The U.K. has colinised over the world by invasion and then stolen those country's resources and enslaved many of its peoples. Your statements are nieve to say the least. I don't blame you. The British people have been dumbed down and sedated with right wing propaganda for decades. My arguments are made rationally and on the basis of historical facts. When things are not going your way the easiest thing to do is demonize the outsider or the foreigner and use them as a scapegoat. It is not the outsider that has caused the mess in this country it is the insiders. The corrupt governments and greedy corporations who avoid paying their taxes. They are living in oppulance whilst we the people suffer.

Throwing around insults is not an argument.

Exactly my argument for those who say we should allow as many in, as want to come here - why don't those tree huggers and do-gooders actually sign a contract to allow one person or family (depending on how large their property is), to sleep on their floor or bunk beds, and also agree to financially support those people for food, clothing, education, medical bills etc etc for at least two generations - wonder how many would march in support of refugees and immigrants if they had to personally support them, not just through everyone's taxes ?

who gets Paracetamol on prescription anyway?
my doctor would laugh at me if I went and asked him for it.
And as for 'saving the NHS' - let's leave that up to the politicians...

I am glad to see your in a position to be able to afford a few hundred thousand if ever you need some life saving surgery or treatment. Not many are.

Loving this thread, there really are some idiots out there. I dont think the post is about the cost of the goods as in saving yourself money. Its saving a service that is overstretched as it is. Giving someone who needs an appointment that ability to get one in a suitable time frame.

If you honestly are willing to wait in a doctors surgery for ages surrounded by properly ill people with bugs that will more than likely be contagious then I would say you value money more than you do yourself. I would say it works out better for all parties to get these items when out doing your shopping as oppose to potentially driving to a surgery to drive to a pharmacy etc etc.

Just picking up on another couple of things, when in supermarkets if the do have a Pharmacy ask for the paracetamol/nurofen from behind the counter rather than off the shelf they can sell them in bigger pack sizes as its a consultative sale. Over use of nurofen potentially causes stomach ulcers - take it from a nurofen fan !

What you have to wonder is, WHY does it cost the NHS £10ish to prescribe paracetamol when you can buy it for 18p. The company they buy them from likely would still only get the 3 or 4p wholesale price, its all the middlemen and red tape within the NHS that bumps up the price.

This number also include pension credit, widows pension, widows allowance etc

Asda Paracetamol 500mgs x16 for 19p

No thanks. I prefer 'Pfiser' brand from the NHS for £4.94 = 2600% extortion !

I'm confused here: for over 65s or 60 for ladies say it £119.30 x 52 = £6,203.60 per annum divided by £108,000,000,000

I'm getting that to 17,409,246 pensioners or approx 27% of the population based on UKs 64.1M

I know folks are living longer but 27% seem excessive.

why would someone go to the docs or A and E, for paracetamol? that's madness, so inefficient. don't people have better things to do over a 19p packet of tablets? I'm confused, it makes zero sense to me :-/

Just how does this save the NHS from going bust? you cannot state which brands(or generic) you want to be filled on a prescription

What someone suspects and what they actually have is very different. Fine, clog up A&E with your "appendicitis" which actually turns out to be a bit of gas from your curry last night. But hey, your visit down to A&E was "free" right? No harm done.

Not that I agree or disagree on morality and the benefit system. Fact is tho it's more than 60-70.

75£ ish, I dunno current 25+ JSA levels.
100£ rent ish
20£ council tax
Variety of other small benefits, low interest loans, furniture grants, social housing, etc etc etc. Free NHS prescriptions, opticians, dental...

Combine with the fact working simply costs money. Bus, train, fuel, clothing, food rtc.

So theyre getting about 150-200 a week outside London once you factor in paid rent and council tax. Then they don't have all generic work expense, which even for the most frugal is 20 a week alone for bus etc. Not everyone can walk to work.

So, 220 a week relative.
220*52 = 10,400£
Very generic math/rounding. But my point is to day it's just the 75£ a week is wrong, extremely.

So it's not THAT bad, I've lived off job seekers and it's doable. I'd rather work tho, insanely boring not working.

very true.

couldn't agree more.

but unfortunately even some voting hot here are abusing NHS when times come to them.

I think in Wales we need to change the free prescriptions. Its Madness.
Even is it a £1.00 it would be more than fair, and they would harvest millions.
ps
It can take 18 months to get counselling in Wales - something wrong somewhere.

That is not the point, the other money you refer to the £41bn in incapacity benefits, £27bn in Housing benefits also join the pot of money, not just the money spent on the unemployed.

Whyyyyyyy

Ibuprofen generally better than paracetamol: can't OD, doesn't dehydrate you, less reactive with other substances, better if you've been boozing, also an inti-inflamatory!

I love this post!!!! Thanks OP.
Also same price in Aldi (if not slightly cheaper)

Don't forget guys ibuprofen is THE EXACT SAME as nurofen. The name nurofen is what you're paying for. Its the same drug inside that tiny tablet :wink:

This epidemic of white van man humour has to stop.

ah, just looked who the op is! hi! couldn't swap you that flamedeer i needed it.

totally agree with this, there is very little anyone can do, too many greedy people/companies about that make us feel we have a voice, but in reality does not get heard over the money they are counting.!

there this NHS problem stated above, new houses that are given green lights despite how much locals protest, yet anything builders/councils want goes ahead and anytime a simple home owner wants to extend or change on their own house has to jump hoops with fees/planning etc etc! sadly nothing will ever change.

Anyone criticising me for not wanting to spend MY OWN money on providing healthcare for strangers (many of whom are foreigners) I expect are people who are opening their own doors of their home to let TRAMPS and DOSSERS help themselves to your food and beds?

No - THOUGHT NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the big issues is Recruitment Agencies in the health sector. Nurses are earning over a thousand pound working a weekend shift, then you can double the amount that's invoiced from the agency to the NHS.

Recruitment agencies are leaching the tax payers money more than anything. The NHS is more privitised than you can imagine. I know of one Recruitment Agency in the health sector that's actually owned by a member of the Conservative party. It's an absolute joke.

Who goes to the Dr's for paracetamol?

Wouldn't people rather save money for themselves? I'm for prescription for everything. People pay taxes for this very reason.

Besides, saving money is the main reason for this site..

Going to have to vote this icing cold.

Sorry.

I'll get my coat..

I think as good an idea as this is by the OP, its just the tip of the iceberg in relation to the services of this country being bled dry by idiots. Until the whole system is re-styled, they will never fix any of the problems. Stop giving out jobseekers allowance to people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months. Give them milk and bread vouchers. You want fags and a flat screen TV? Get you rass out to work and earn it like every other tax paying person in the country does. I read the constant sob stories in the press of "but i only want to be treated as an equal" and "i have a right to do what i want with my benefit money" - no you bloody well dont. It isnt your money and you shouldnt have it. Get out and make something for yourself. Sorry for the rant, but it annoys me something chronic when i see these wasters wandering around town when im on my lunch break. I just despair for the next generation, as im 31 now and i see the idiots i went to school with have never grown up and done anything in the world, they have just copied their parents into a life of benefits and handouts. The first politician that promises to fix this problem will get my vote whether they are Tory, Labour, UKIP, or the Monster Raving Looney Party.

When is enough, enough?

Someone should send this to the house of commons and Downing street.

Take a look on ebay, the amount of sellers on there selling NHS stuff is awful, like NHS only hearing aid batteries in packs of 120, obviously NHS workers stealing them.

They wouldn't be aware of the £20k being written off. An IVA stays on a credit file for six years from when it commenced.

Great post. NHS needs to sack the overpaid a$$holes and make their own generic drugs instead of paying to companies who overprice their tablets.

Please provide sources for points 2, 4 & 5 which show they're a significant reason for the problems in the NHS.

Any system - yes, any system - provided for the benefit of others will have those determined to exploit it.

That does not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater and fail to provide help for the people that need it. If we can all afford multiple flat screen TVs and the latest mobile phones, we can afford to look after our vulnerable.

You know Food Banks existed and were busy BEFORE the benefit sanctions came about - one didn't cause the other.

You Want treatment ? Show your passport (UK ONLY) and if you can't then you don't get treatment. Simple as.

That will claw back hundreds of millions from people who are not entitled to treatment.

Remove all the comsultants who are overpaid and lazy and watch the health service return to a better state.

I need these this morning!

True that they are less than neutral but their report on NHS management is both valid and accurate.

Trump is better than the whole Brexit thing.

Also it's so much cheaper for people to buy kids paracetamol and ibuprofen then to get it on minor elements it costs the nhs more then it does to but a bottle over the counter

Less than 10% of prescriptions issued are actually paid for. I know there was talk a few years ago of abolishing free prescriptions for unemployed/pensioners etc and introducing a much lower flat rate of a couple of quid. Don't think it ever came to anything though.

Edit: "60% of the population are entitled to free prescriptions but they take over 90% of all prescriptions issued".

Crikey!! Just reading the news - and this paragraph below.....And we wonder what is costing the NHS? We need as a nation to address this timebomb. It's insanity to ignore it....And I do not blame individuals, these are social problems that come about from poor funding, education and policy. People have got to be encouraged or incentivised to become more active / eat less. Likewise, something has to be done about our addiction to crap food. (I include myself because despite cycling to and from work, 120 odd miles a week, I still have a 36" waist. I just eat too big portions and I snack).

Quote:
Nearly half of men and a third of women aged 50 to 70 are overweight in terms of body mass index (BMI), a measure of fat based on weight in relation to height, Dame Sally said in her annual report.

However, these figures rise to 80 per cent and 92 per cent when waist circumference is considered. So-called central obesity is defined as measuring 40 inches or more in men and 34 inches or more in women around the midsection of the abdomen in line with the navel.

If a contract is signed to supply something at a high price, when the cost is actually rather low, that leaves a lot of spare money to grease palms or send cases of wine etc - try reading Private Eye for a few issues, and see if you don't get angry about all of the corruption. I stopped reading a few years ago when I realised there was little the average person could do about it.

The Kings Fund are funded by the Department of Health with an agenda to privatise the NHS and charge you every time you have anything to do with it.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/gary-walker/kings-fund-suggests-nhs-fees-but-is-it-really-independent

Why don't you believe it? Unfortunately, simple analysis of the costs is not the first initiative. There is plenty of info around on the NHS costs and the areas that are rising but the overall picture is very rarely painted.

It's a shame, but media outlets cannot rely on their circulation sales anymore and so have to drive their online "click-bait" associate funding. To do this, they need to present ever more outrageous claims.:disappointed:

The next president really should be a native American, but let's not forget all the shouting about rights for blacks, whites, Hispanics etc, when in fact it's the rights of the original inhabitants which are often ignored, and have been ever since they had their lands taken away and forced to live in reservations.
But if we stick to the present day situations, then at least those across the pond could vote for someone not on the usual voting lists, and who said it like it was, so the 'average citizen' could vote against uncontrolled immigration if that is what they wanted to do, and around half of the voters voted for the Donald.
When you think that a turkey is unlikely to vote for Christmas, it shows exactly what the majority of descendants of the pioneers thought, whether the lefties like it or not,

Even more bargains at Aldi, as you'd expect!

I don't get it, the NHS surely must buy paracetamol on a larger scale than all the supermarkets combined. They must be getting it even more cheaply than the supermarkets, unless their procurement people are on the other sort of drugs?

Can't believe that a comment so wrong got so many likes.

That the NHS is over-managed is a myth that has been demonstrated to be untrue by an analysis by The Kings Fund. It is, in fact, under-managed which is every bit as inefficient as being over-managed but "NHS appoints more managers" is a too poisonous a headline for them to do very much about it.

But as per usual neglicting to analyse your golden stats.
Benefits are paid out to people without them contributing in. Pensions are out to people who have paid in for many many years.
You have just taken the paid out part for your argument and completely forgotten about how much has been paid in.
The point of your argument being then that a person who pays into a pension for 40 years, retires and starts getting paid back mostly their own money is a scrounger. And someone that pays nothing in and takes money out indefinitely is a much more an upstanding member of the community.
Nice one genius.

You votes tories you gets no NHS

It's the drug companies that over charge the NHS . They are the main dealers !

Am I actually reading this correctly?
Over 2000 degrees on a something that has been normal price for years!
'Oh thanks op, for all these years I have been picking up the expensive branded paracetamol that sit millimetres next to these very cheap ones'

1 NHS box has 200 paracetemol tablets = 12½ retail boxes with 16 tablets per box

13 boxes = £2.47 (you'd have to make at least 6 trips to the shop though)
200 tablet box = £8.20 with a prescription

I reckon either the pharmacy or the NHS is making serious money on these tablets (but the cost for the GP visit outweighs it).

So you agree with me :smiley: It is the cost of smoking, inactivity and elderly care that weighs most on the NHS.

But we have to be careful where to lay the blame.

Smoking is on the wane but it's addictive and needs more education and direct action to try to stop it. Bear in mind that is used to be encouraged, and the tobacco companies are massively powerful.

Inactivity is again something that you think is an individual's problem but why has our traffic policy made very little provision for cycling over the past 20 / 30 years - look at Dutch cities - everyone goes around on bike, no helmets, no hi viz, simple functional bikes, dedicated lanes, traffic lights, junctions - consequently, journeys under 5 miles are easier on bike! And obesity is low. Why are fast food giants allowed to spring up everywhere and target audiences? Why is it deemed a cheaper option for those close to poverty to get a bucket of poor quality chicken rather than make a lentil broth? Government needs to address and answer these social issues.

Elderly Care - it's an absolute disgrace that so many bus services / community care services / local social care services have been axed off the back of the last years of austerity. Funds are simply cut and diverted away from these services. That in turn pushes it onto the NHS. That breaks it because it is not designed to be that service. We need far, far better support in the community to turn that around. At the moment, it's people volunteering that is sticky plaster trying to keep it together. That is a massive issue that the Government are not addressing. They appeal to the pensioner through other means(pensions etc) and sneakily cut the real local support. They are quite happy for every blue rinse's favourite rag, The Daily Mail, to blame it all on immigration. What about all the retired in Spain? We don't pay for their medical - how much do you think we cost over there?


Expanding a little on that last point, I posted earlier about the cost of the reciprocal health care across the UK / EU. The figures suggest that the UK pays £1 for non-doms compared with EU paying £5 for UK non-doms.... We have to be careful to see the full picture. We all have access to EHIC which grants us full NHS type rights anywhere in the EU and seeing as we go on a lot more holidays than most other countries, we are massive winners with the current arrangement.

What is almost a certainty is that should we lose this reciprocal arrangement, it will be the public who then have to fund their own medical bills / increased insurance.

Therefore, it's hard to conclude that the current arrangement is anything other than a good deal for the UK when considering the alternative.

Christ, what a load of waffle - sorry :smiley:

Shouldnt it be the other way round- tell the NHS to grab meds from Home Bargains. With the £8 prescription charge they'll soon be back on their feet! :smile:

The issue is one of total *mismanagement* of the NHS. Not exactly of paracetamol. More buying power means NHS must get better deal then supermarkets - obviously.
The -mismanagement- in the NHS is about:
1) payment massive salaries for the managers etc
2) corrupt inside dealings with back-hand payments or payments in kind between the purchaser and drugs sellers.
3) over prescription - (sometimes the patients have stopped using but still gets the medicine because it is still in the prescription). There is nobody to check if the patient is still using that is the flaw in the system. It is not always the patients fault either. The patient has medical issues and the surgeries also do not always cancel immediately when informed.
4) health tourist from abroad
5) excessive immigration from abroad who have not paid into the system
6) In many cases "use-by date" is wrong. Many drugs can still be used after the said date. The drug sellers have made it so that the drugs are thrown away too early. Quick money for drug companies - and more waste for NHS.
7) Inferior drugs prescribed that do nothing for the patient
:sunglasses: there needs to be also alternatives like ayurvedic medicines they actually *do work* and are cheaper for the nhs eg. Himej. Think-out-of-the box solutions are absolutely required if we really care for NHS.
9) many drugs need to made available to be sold on counters eg amoxicillin so that will release the pressure on getting from doctors for common ailments eg chest infection. Let us not forget we want to save NHS - some drastic changes are required. This will also ease pressure on going to see doctors for anything and everything.

Take a look on ebay, the amount of sellers on there selling NHS stuff is awful, like NHS only hearing aid batteries in packs of 120, obviously NHS workers stealing them.

Sorry, but where I live the people who use food banks are the same ones who prop up pub doorways, or think it's their human right to spend taxpayers money on cigarettes (never mind they usually have children who would be happy if the fag money was spent on stuff for them instead) and cases of beer so the parents ''can relax at home because it's too expensive to go to pubs'' !!
I live in a smallish place where everyone knows everyone else, and nobody here is starving, neither were they starving before food banks - the only ones who struggled were those I've already described, as well as those who squandered their money on needless things and you'd see them with the newest phones glued to their ears on calls which all cost money.
In addition, there are asylum seekers near here who regularly queue up at the post office to send money overseas, and some of them even drive a car.............. is that also their human right as well, to spend taxpayers money in that fashion ?

Bang on

Ha nice touch, will be stocking up on, will be needed for the morning after, with all the Jack Daniels deals going round ATM lol

£60 - £70 a week?! Ha ha, try multiplying that by 5 at least when you build in housing benefit, council tax reduction, free school meals, free prescriptions, free bus travel (wales) ... Don't believe the loony left, that the people on benefits are all living off food banks. My parents live in an estate where nearly no on works, they all have iphones, flat screens and the latest technology. And maybe you should read the reply, it may open your eyes to eh reality !

Yes but in my experience they also tell you it's cheaper to go and buy yourself from Boots etc. So they give you the prescription (if you wish) and advise you it's cheaper to buy without it, if applicable.

Why should my taxes go towards the health of other people. I want a system where I can truly take responsibility for my own healthcare. I don't want to subsidise spongers.

If you wake up with suspected appendicitis, don't go to see a GP, go straight to A&E!

Would it be so wrong to pay contributions towards doctors visits/ other medical care? I know I come from a country which has deductibles if you have insurance.

If we tell people they need to pay a £10 charge for doctors visits or ER care, would it not reduce people going in for the sniffles or a broken fingernail? Thus reducing the burden on the NHS for non essential care.

It's a constant battle I have with my wife (British). She thinks the kids have a sniffle, let's go to the doctors, where I am of the opinion it needs to be worse than the sniffles to warrant a visit to the doctors. So she is used to having the system there, where I am used to health care being a premium you only use if required.

The current system seems to be open to abuse as people will go for any issues serious or not.

Wait... I'm confused, people pay £8.20 for paracetamol?

Admire the OP for posting as it's known a 19p pack of paracetamol costs the NHS about £10 on prescription apparently. A lot of problems lie with people who attend A&E for things that could be treated at home or elsewhere or by NHS 111. Saw a picture which indicates treatment costs to the purse and every ambulance callout is about £240+ and walking into A&E costs typically £124!

Walked past some Nurofen in the Co-op last week. £3.99!! :confused:

Sorry I pay for the NHS so I will use it as much as needed.... they need to stop doing free work for foreigners

First factual comment ive read lol

Im farilyk certain most people don't realise the £8.20 we pay in England to pharmacies is basically just the Pharmacy collecting tax for the government with their income coming from The NHS / government book price for each individuals drug on prescription

I've worked pharmacy for 14+ yrs and it's disgusting how the government bring in schemes (minor ailments) or allow prescriptions for such trivial things such as E45, allergy tablets and a wide range of things. The amount of prescribing for baby milk, bread, even pasta. I understand people can be affected by gluten but back in the day you had to buy all the things yourself. In my opinion Things like that should be on a private prescription not a green doctors one. Sometimes it's cheaper on a private prescription, what's that say about our government??

£8.20 if I want paracetamol from the NHS!

Really... bit of a fantasy post

This isnt a deal,

No here one is 'saving the NHS from bankrupcy'

A whole lot of 'morality heat' lol

Cold. Standard price. Not a deal.

I imagine it's more complicated than that. Not defending the model buts it's probably a method to fund the pharmacists as they do provide a national network of care.

It wouldn't neccesarily be cheaper for the gov to do it. Think of all the free holds/leases the gov would have to buy. With the current model at least phamarcys are part funded from their overpriced ibuprofen, perfumes etc.

Why is everyone so confused about the cost of 20p paracetamol costing 8 quid?
It doesn't cost the NHS 8 quid to buy the tablets, it costs pennies. But the cost of the doctor, the pharmacist, the pharmacy staff, the pharmacy itself, the insurance, the parking the electricity the processing of the prescription, the checks ....

Why does the government not have their own private pharmacies then?if they put their foot down and say we are not going to pay you.£8.20 for something that costs less than a pound but the government is too lazy to do that.if you go to lot of Far East countries more than half the pharmacies are government owned.they should take a leaf out of their book.

By Tory I assume you include Blair governments too, but that's a different debate.

It is exactly this. Successive governments willing the NHS to fail so eventually the public beg for it to be privatised.

The only way this will save the NHS is if we all overdose.

Good deal, though!

How much do the Health Tourists cost the nhs?

Or the government could just make the rich and big corporations like google pay their taxes and close the offshore accounts loopholes and use the hundreds of billions in lost tax revenue. But them that wouldn't be in their interests as they get paid and work for the big corporations!!! This government want the NHS to collapse so that they can privitise it so that their business associates can control and monopolize the health service so that they can have complete control on pricing. Making healthcare available only for the wealthy whilst the rest of us perish. If we want to save the NHS we have to get the Torys out folks!!!

He probably meant illegal immigrants. Tho I am not sure if they can get any NHS service.

And you don't think someone who has a bit of bad luck and needs help should get it? Like the guy above? The first thing you want to do for them is call them a scrounger etc etc? Fair enough then.

I assume you mean food vouchers? Trivial to bypass, they just swap them, or what they buy, for fags, same as in the USA. There's no point proposing a fix which has already been shown to be a failure in other countries.

I agree with "furiousjammin" some people do not want to work because they get as much from benefits. The benefits scheme need massive cuts . No one on benefits should be getting more than some working on minimum wage.

So I know there are some cheap generic brands at supermarkets but how do these compare to the big name brands?

I'm guessing something must be different to legitimise the difference between 19p and £3.50 or more.

I'm pleased you have found another job now. The whole experience must have been awful enough, without idiots like the guy above insulting you too. We all have bad luck and are entitled to a bit of help and respect.

Voted hot, may help some people.

However, the real issue here at play across the board is the Barnett formula, as residents of the united kingdom we are very expensive.
We cost on average 8000 each per person per year in england, there is 4 of us in our household, that would mean we would have to pay back in tax - income and vat 32000.
At the moment my wife pays no tax or very little as a full time level 3 teaching assistant, she receives 11500 per year.
I am a local wagon driver earning 23500 per year, this means we pay approximately 3000
Per year in income tax and approx 2500 in vat per year, so we are giving 5500 to the government, yet we are costing on average as a family 32000 - 5500 = 26500 deficit.

In short mainly because of living and working in a low wage, high cost of living country and economy there is nowhere near enough money going back into the countries pockets, also of course due to the fact that corporations pay top accountants to fiddle their tax contributions.

So in short we are extremely lucky, but as long as wages remain stagnant and no real growth, we are on the hard working financial treadmill... A lot of effort but we are not getting anywhere.
Personally the wife is training as a teacher but that's another 4 years away, I am about to go and work away as a wagon driver, we didn't want to have to do this but needs must, we can no longer manage really,we also have aspirations.
We don't qualify for prescriptions, tax credits, dentistry, school meals, nothing.
We are on over 30000 so don't qualify.

But chin up, we are grafters and we will get there.

Of all the things I like about the UK, the NHS is what I will miss the most. It's like a safety blanket for health care, but saying that, the US has a lot more specialist care, but it will cost you if you're not insured.

For anyone thinking of moving there, get a job which includes health coverage. Any job which is worth having should offer it as part of your employment.

I hope your friend gets the care they need.

Currently the US is not a good example of a competitive private healthcare system because of Obamacare e.g. Insurers cannot provide plans across state lines and this dramatically reduces competition: higher premiums.

I'm Scottish, so free prescriptions. I don't agree that it should be free, if you can afford to pay then you should. Whenever I collect a prescription for myself, which is probably once every few years (thankfully), I always donate to the charity tin in the chemist due to feeling guilty.

Everyone working at pharmacy knows how millions of people are abusing the system by sucking tax payers money in the form of benefits... I remember one of my friend used to tell me the real example.. 'when a young man come to the pharmacy with a prescription I said oh! you can buy this without prescription! Then that patient replied' I don't pay for my medine, it's free(no its not, it's paid by tax payers money which has been taken from them)'.Now,when I ask them to sign the exemption at the back of the prescription' he asked for the pen and left his BMW key on the side and proudly marked benefits box'. This tells us that 1 or 2 out of 10 are genuinely disabled/needs our help, otherwise all are very healthy but just don't want to work as they can get more benefits by NOT working than working 40 hours/weeks. Many Tax payers are still renting a flat while these thieves are enjoying whole 4 bedroom house for free and going on holidays every season. Also, they have iPhone 7 while tax payers have to wait few years to get a new phone. NHS should be private, in fact there shouldn't be a NHS. Every time I ring my surgery, I have to wait 5 days before I see my GP, while these thieves are there every day blocking all appointments just for paracetamol.

Fair enough- that makes some sense.

The NHS trusts would probably be better off just stocking a large cupboard of cheap medicines at each GP surgery, and just handing them out for free without prescription in these cases.

I'm sure that there are admin reasons why this isn't done, but it should be possible to deal with stuff like giving away free (cheap) medicines without using an expensive process.

Is not just cost.... I often have as many as 8 a day most days . There's a convenience and availability factor. If I run out which I frequently do when I have to rely on shops as you can only buy 2 packs at a time ,then i can't manage my symptoms .
Don't tar everyone with the same brush.
BTW, I pay for my prescriptions.

Being scammed by the big pharmas doesn't help.
2,600% price gouging

Fantastic idea for a post, hope people listen!

For what? Well, if you got run over the NHS would be pretty handy. The private sector doesn't do emergency care.

You do realise that private healthcare insurance doesn't cover pre-existing conditions? In the US there are thousands of families that have had to sell their family homes when they have had an unfortunate health episode. Think of it like car insurance - any excuse they can find to not pay a claim or to increase your premium, they will do it.

I am not actually anti-private sector, i have used the French system and found it excellent. But in this country, we wouldn't get the French system as a replacement for the NHS, we would get the US system. This is because the big US health companies lobby mps and ministers, many of whom are very free market orientated in any case - this points to US style, not European.

I've never met a doctor who would consider using a prescription for commonly sold medicines.

I've always had to pay for prescriptions, but obviously that info isn't available to doctors when they're writing prescriptions, so shouldn't be affecting decisions.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm surprised. Clearly the NHS is badly suited to providing benefits like free prescriptions for items which are available much cheaper anywhere else.

You would pass with flying colours too.

I thought the NHS has plenty of money now after they got all the billions saved from Brexit? :laughing:

If you maintain a good diet and exercise you will be needing less pills in some cases. Don't take medication for colds...

I wouldn't bother, you are arguing with someone repeating what they read in their Daily Mail six years ago and thinking they are well informed. Maybe Labour could have been accused of some unwise spending and too many managers? But we have had six years of Conservative ministers running the NHS now, it's underfunded - would say deliberately so.

Would you be willing to forgoe all treatment from other sources if it were found that your insurance didn't cover you for certain conditions or treatments?

A friend of mine had just found out that his high price private health insurance won't cover treatment for his son who thought to be autistic... Early and effective treatment is crucial to ensure as normal a life as possible, but they won't cover him.
Guess where he's going to get something done?

I do have an option to get an ADDITIONAL insurance. I believe it would be fair that in that case the government would lover the taxes for that person. As some of the older data show (2012), that 5% of your yearly salary goes to NHS. For what? For "GPs" and "doctors" telling to have some paracetamol? Please. I would rather spend that money on a private insurance and let NHS go to hell with all that under-qualified staff.

One of the things that happens when you strip away all the layers of management "waste", is you find that doctors etc start surrendering more time on paperwork and admin than being able to treat people.

Same thing happens with teaching.

Waste sucks, but someone has to provide the support roles so that the "real" workers can operate efficiently.

It would be for the best if the NHS was gone. The quality of service is below par anyway. I'd rather have an option to get a proper private insurance than being covered by the government. Therefor cold.

Those who are complaining about a lack of funding from government:
What additional percentage of your income have you given voluntarily given to the government to help support public finances?
What about to your local NHS trust?

Or is it all "someone else's problem"?

A lot of people talk the talk for higher taxes, but very few put their money where their mouth is before being forced to.

If we paid the same percentage of our GDP as the vast majority of the world does for its health service then the NHS wouldn't have a problem. The simple fact is it is starved of funds.

wife works hor one of the big pharmaceutical company's and pay is good so cold from me

Socialised healthcare is a failure. The more tax payers money that is put into it results in no improvements. Free market insurance based healthcare results in lower tax and better treatment.

I would rather the NHS die. I pay so much towards it and it isn't worth it. I would rather we all have to pay for medical insurance. It works out cheaper and you get a better service. However I'm not prepared to pay towards the NHS AND medical insurance on top of it.

Just because it cannot be proven, does not mean it does not exist.
However, it does mean it may well be something that can be faked.
I suffer from Costochondritis - it's only diagnosed as that when they can't find anything else wrong!
Does not mean I run to the pill cabinet every few hours when I get a flare up.
Long term use of paracetamol can damage your liver.

If you check the drug id number, you will find lots are exactly the same & just reboxed for certain ailements like a cold/flu symptoms at higher price.

Yep! Always buy the cheap ibuprofen :smiley:

Yup. Nhs being fleeced by multinationals. Time to hand over nhs buying to the boss of farmfoods.

Chicken Fillets £4 for 4 at Tesco. Another cost saving tip for the NHS :smirk:

Supermarkets have always sold generic painkillers. Bolt on a story about saving the NHS and suddenly people are falling over themselves saying what a brilliant deal this is.

I must be missing something.

Wow. 2000 degrees for name dropping the NHS and dropping the bombshell that asda's paracetamol is cheaper than a prescription. I decided not to read too many of the comments, don't need yet another reminder of how many selfish, intolerant twonks there are.

i only go see gps for my sick notes lol not to get treated thanks to my company private insurance i go private hospital lol haha

i agree the dole system and the Medical systeme need to change here ... i work full time and pay tax .... too much

i use to live 20 years in France BTW

I always buy my medicine from the pharmacy , not because i want to save NHS no but its easier than asking my Wonderful GP ( sarcasme) at least my pharmacist say never NO , And INMO i think we should privatise the NHS like in USA or The EUropean countries like France , etc.. where you pay upfront the GP 25 euros or Any Hospital treatment even A&E . you receive a nice invoice after few days . i think we should not have any problem with funds dont we ?

Voted cold, sick of seeing this type of tripe on top of the deals list. Disappointed with the mods for letting it happen and not either forcing change of title to "Asda paracetamol 500mgs x 16 19p" or just deleting it entirely.

We could save the UK a fortune if ministers actually held some kind of qualification in the position they held - running for a MP's seat a candidate should stipulate the professional qualification/experience and what ministerial seat they wanted and how that and their plan would benefit the country.


Jobs for the boys cabinet selection is just draconian, undemocratic and wastes money and time.


Us at the bottom need to demand change, universally.

Don't get worked up about it mate, we the public are ALWAYS looking for the blame of why they are not getting "something" that someone else is or why there isn't enough to go round.I have read a couple of pages of comments and it's all here on a plate. It's immigrants fault. It's NHS managers fault. It's disabled people's fault. blah blah blah

It's the way we have been engineered to think so that we ignore the real reasons we are being told that there is going to be no NHS, no state pension, and not enough police. We are constantly being told that such and such is the boogey man this week and we as a nation buy into it almost consistently without fail.

Gosh !! well getting back to the OPs original post.

I was in Morrisons the other day and their box of 16 Cold Relief Capsules was 64p amazingly sold next to big named brands costing a lot more so worth a look.

I was unaware of the PL number info very useful just googled the PL code for this product PL12063/0003 and its amazing what information comes up and variation in cost.

Some interesting comments should be forwarded on to the health secretary !!!

I have M.E. and work full time and it is not fake or a mental illness. It is viral and I was left with it after getting glandular fever. I am in constant pain. Christ on a bike this site is full of morons.
I am also transgender and don't get any help from the NHS (pay privately). Care to offer an opinion on this. You both probably go to the GP every time you have a sniffle.

Anyone who goes to the GP for a cold is an idiot.

Gps agouldnt give it out on prescription. While I was working at a GP's surgery our doctors refused to do it

Stupid people and their stupid regurgitated views from the sun, daily mail and express, the NHS is going to **** thanks to old people who enjoyed the good years and refuse to die since neither heaven or hell wants boomers.

The government wont fund it and enjoy virgin healthcare since it's coming to a hospital near you.

Starve the beast baby.

the problem with the NHS is echoed across the world be it a bank, government or firm;
Greed
Laziness
Incompetence
Complacency

Big up to the people on the front line doing the graft and the rest......shame on you

I care about my half baked opinions and so should you.

Big thanks to HUK genius '2minutenoodles' with their professional medical opinion there... I can make a fake DLA claim by pretending I'm mentally ill, that does not cast any doubt on the legitimacy of mental illnesses, same for back pain and other illnesses.

That was a thoroughly dimwitted argument and you made a clown of yourself by airing that jelly-brained thought process in public.

From my perspective we don't have one, I was admitted to cardio emergency ward with tachycardia and atrial fibrillation a few weeks ago, accept the cardo ward refused me entry because I wasn't sick enough, A&E told me to go to ACU because I had been referred by a doc therefore A&E was inappropriate, ACU told my to go back the cardio ward and ask to be admitted again. After one hour thirty minutes of pacing around the hospital being palmed off I got a taxi to a hospital 20 miles away, 2 hours 30 mins I went without treatment, I was lied to and generally treated like crap (Royal Liverpool Hospital).

GP, has ignored all my cardio warning signs attributing them to anxiety despite no history of anxiety and no actual anxiety (to be expected when they receive bonuses for meeting targets to reduce referrals), I've had to fight hard for the couple of specialists I've seen over the years for heart problems and chronic gastric symptoms and obstructive sleep apnoea, if they can't ease your symptoms with a pill they're not interested.

Currently looking to go private so I can get some answers about my heart. The NHS is already finished, it's just a cash cow for politicians chums whose companies come in to build nice fancy buildings with all your tax money, god forbid they spend any of that money on staffing.

Just a shame we cant buy Amoxicillin or other penicillin based drugs without a prescription. They literally cost pennies

Not against this campaign or the idea of saving NHS BUT I'm work with drugs - discovery to development etc. and I firmly advise against buying those cheap 'drugs'. They are synthetic polymers that has low administration time and high impact on kidney filtration rate. Try getting a box of Aspirin from Morissons or ASDA - read ingredients, Talcum is one the many unnecessary, synthetic chemicals that are added to these meds. To give them substance, make them fair and lovely looking. These are made from what we call 'dead stock' of actual medicines. All in all there's papers, reviews and what not if you're really interested. They'll work now and then but they're not exactly 'doing' what they're meant to or doing ONLY what they're meant to be doing to your organs. There might be an alternative not saying I don't support this move of saving NHS and it's funds.

Anybody a Pharmacologist here, i need some help on my essay.

Labor and Tory governments poked the holes in the bucket, now the water can be collected by their corporate chums instead of wasting away in the bucket being used by the peasants.

How on earth is this so hot? It's just a list of crap medicine that has always been available for very cheap.

You should never even use paracetamol and ibuprofen unless you desperately have to. A) it seems like it never actually really helps and instead relies on the placebo effect. B) Don't put drugs into your body if you can help it! These things still have side effects and they cause your body to rely on medicine, making your immune system weaker. The best medicine is a healthy diet - lots of natural, non-GM fruits and veg.

I can't believe that I've read every single comment.

Home bargains also sell cheap hayfever and anti allergy tablets.

Home bargains also sell cheap hayfever and anti allergy tablets.

the NHS needs complete reform and to pay the going rate for all supplies they bring in.

if a consumer can buy XYZ cheaper than the NHS then that's really saying something, if a wholesaler can buy in cheaper than the HNS then that is saying something.

But it'll never happen, way too many fingers in too many pies.

Becoming a preferred supplier to the NHS for ANYTHING from toilet paper to high end medical equipment is essentially having a blank cheque in your name

You know who should pay? That bit** that got breast enlargement paid for through NHS. She's probably whoring herself out and making loads more.

Not a deal

Actually national debt has tripled under the Conservatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

There is no excuse for this. Labour plunged the country into a deficit to bail out the banks. Whether you like it or not, it was necessary. The Conservatives responded by cutting taxes for the top 1% and businesses and then borrowing to plug the gaps and reduce the deficit and now national debt is EIGHTY PER CENT of GDP.

Labour didn't do anything. That's just Tory rubbish.

All right if you want cheapo generic paracetamol that doesn't work but if you want proper Panadol it's still expensive.

While I agree with the spirit of this, I disagree that the way to save the NHS is to stop using it. We have to just realise that money that could be spent on NHS is spent elsewhere. If there was money to bail out banks then there should be money for an institution that literally saves lives.

I'd say it's a disease that hasn't been proven yet rather than can't be proven. Remember that a lot of people have said similar things about a lot of illnesses before they were a proven thing.

Doctors aren't encouraged to prescribe paracetamol, never have been and I've yet to meet one who's happy to dish it out. The prices that are being thrown around are all a bit over the top and only relate to packs of 100 which aren't 19p anywhere. Doctors are only permitted to prescribe paracetamol as a long term solution if no suitable alternative available rather than a quick fix 16pack for a sore head or day fever as then when you start adding in doctor surgery time, pharmacy staffing and running costs of course it's not going to be under 19p from start to finish. This same story goes about every year and Health Officials seem less bothered than the media as it costs them TWICE as much at their worst, or at least so thats what the officials claim, and the fact they do what they can to limit prescription by only allowing it under certain circumstances leaves only the doctors at fault if the problem is expanding.

I think the whole point of bringing it up again and again is to create awareness and encourage people to think twice before using any NHS service and expecting pill handouts rather than to try and save the world by promoting low quality pain pills that can damage your liver if used incorrectly or extensively and lead to higher NHS costs. I'd say it's more to make people aware that using GP and pharmacy time can be costly if all you have is a minor issue that could've been sorted with some cheap pills and rest. My doctor has told me for at least ten years to buy my own pain killers when I mention any pain issues and I've never questioned him for a freebie. It's nothing new, in Scotland at least, but then again the statistics I keep seeing only seem to mention England.

Thats a job description for one of the phoney posts that they invent and then play musical chairs on. You can employ 10x the amount of doctors and nurses on the ground and do what the NHS was meant for which is look after those who need it.

+1 on this not being the place for peoples blogposts. Cold & spammed.

Great post

Wales' top-paid locum doctor paid £183,000 in 2015-16. It is just a LOCUM doctor. His wage can buy 1 Million pack paracetamol. Connect them all together is about 100km long. The top 5 locum doctors in wales are
£183,000 Aneurin Bevan Uni Health Board
£159,000 Aneurin Bevan
£144,000 Aneurin Bevan
£137,000 Betsi Cadwaladr
£133,000 Aneurin Bevan

Now you know one reason why NHS is bankrupt. It is not just because of the overseas or EU patients.

​Well whoever is giving him 14k credit after his 20k wiped off are stupid!

As usual they work with their media friends, telling us all to look at the unemployed, the refugees, the immigrants, the disabled, the young struggling to find a job...don't look up at the super wealthy, and the politicians, doing nasty deal to let them off millions in tax, let's harass the guy getting seventy quid a week, because it's the poor who've bankrupted the country, clearly.

I was thinking about this today while driving home from work.
Since the Tories came to power they have
1. made drastic cuts to public services,
2. cuts to income support and benefits and
3. raised VAT up to 20%.

That last point alone will have made a net income of tens of billions (maybe hundreds!) - think of how many VAT chargeable items are sold every single day, and how much extra money that has made the treasury since VAT was raised from 15 to 20%.
Funny though, that that wasn't enough.

Point 1, They have also slashed billions from vital services, leaving our health and protection services in a critical state, forcing hospitals to close and downgrade. I would love to know how much that has saved (truthfully), but that wasn't enough either!

Yet, - we are told we are still in a mammoth amount of debt. Someone, has to be lying - money just doesn't vanish into thin air. But there again, this is why i absolutely hated the liars Osborne and Cameron. I diddn't trust either of them from the moment they stepped foot into No.10.

Dominatez, please show a bit of respect. Amazing how a good deal could turn into this much hate.

I'm a foreigner who has been contributing to the system for 15 years, and have only seen a doctor a handful of times.

By your theory I have no right to the treatment I've contributed to? Why cause I'm not British?

I feel you're pain. I really do.

I know Crohn's is not fibromyalgia however Crohn's is a disease that keeps on giving, as us Chronies put it, unfortunately fibromyalgia is connected as a symptom along with numerous other bodily symptoms. It's a ****. I should have shares in Andrex by now!

Um....sorry to break up the novelty post party but aren't they always this price? I was under the impression the idea of the site was for stuff that isn't usually a particular price.

What is 'properly'? What £ number is that?

The NHS will never have 'more than enough money'.

There will always be more wonderful work it can do to keep people alive and healthier for longer and lots of magical new tech and drugs that can help as part of this.

Crohns isn't fibromyalgia, I have IBS and have to have 12 loperamide a day and don't claim to have "fibromyalgia". I also have life threatening allergies and am a severe Asthmatic. My point is Fibromyalgia is specifically non specific which makes it easy for people to claim as anything can be a symptom. I know what it is to have illness. Maybe it is just when I see someone say "oh I can't cope today I am aching all over, I have fibromyalgia" ok I'll do the dishes.

Edit: Funny thing is I didn't say it doesn't exist but that is my point exactly.

Yes OP but Asda will only sell me one mingy 16 pack!

on prescription I can get my full overdose on one order, which on the long run would be cheaper for the NHS...

Paracetamol are always helpful. Will pick up two boxes.

My point was that no-one should have to pay prescription charges - the NHS should be properly funded through taxation/NI contributions

There'd be more than enough money to fund the NHS if this government did the decent thing and compelled their wealthy friends and corporations like Apple/Amazon/Starbucks etc to pay the correct level of taxation.

mmm Try having Crohn's Disease & tell me that fibromyalgia don't exist!

I've always worked & paid my dues. Not claimed DLA yet as I don't want to be more of a drain than I am with a Disease that is not of my doing or any known cause!

i'll stick to prescription thanks

How is this going to save the NHS from going bust? aren't these made by seperate manufacturers and tested by a government sector, not our health service?

In Iceland too

BTW if your asthmatic it is advised not to take ibuprofen

Oh I thought this was a deal about pain relief, not a slagging off thread for professions and social class. But good old JSA people with their fags, booze, flat screens, let's not forget the ponies and goats in the garden too, always take a battering.

*waves at David Cameron*

I may be wrong but I think the person you're replying to was talking more about the folks that could go and get a job, could better themselves and not rely on benefits (however big or small) but can't be arsed. They're the people abusing a welfare system that was set up originally to help those who you're talking about and who can't work or have poorly paid jobs etc.

Very well wriiten post. Thank you

Plus aeykeay has just completely made a fictitious statement.
I know what a guide F2 (junior doctor) locum rate per hour is - and if you were to pay anything of the magnitude of 6!! times less for a "clinician" (by this, he means a junior doctor or nurse...) then it would be illegal as it would be far below the minimum wage.

Not against this campaign or the idea of saving NHS BUT I'm work with drugs - discovery to development etc. and I firmly advise against buying those cheap 'drugs'. They are synthetic polymers that has low administration time and high impact on kidney filtration rate. Try getting a box of Aspirin from Morissons or ASDA - read ingredients, Talcum is one the many unnecessary, synthetic chemicals that are added to these meds. To give them substance, make them fair and lovely looking. These are made from what we call 'dead stock' of actual medicines. All in all there's papers, reviews and what not if you're really interested. They'll work now and then but they're not exactly 'doing' what they're meant to or doing ONLY what they're meant to be doing to your organs. There might be an alternative not saying I don't support this move of saving NHS and it's funds.

nice opening to the title OP :')

If you're going to your gp for any of these drugs then you are part of the problem!
You're probably the sort of person that demands antibiotics for a cold or the flu

How about if NHS stop overspending on locum doctors and nurses and start taking control by managing teams instead of being friends with their staff. A single locum doctor/nurse costs NHS between 8-10 times more than a single employed clinician. Current team managers behave like friends with their staff and do not focus on performance which results in NHS paying out for the services of a dead rat. I love NHS and believe it is the best service in the world along with some really passionate people serving us. Equally I am very annoyed at how it is still run with large waste on a daily basis be it waste of resources or waste of spend. On a positive note this is still a hot deal and as they say every little helps. Hot from me.

Apologees for the typos; it's late evening and I've had a long day; I've been busy working 223243 jobs you see.

I'm not a party politics guy; but it wasn't Labour which caused the financial crisis which affected every Western country; it was the greedy bankers and lack of regulation (which is a failure of both Con & Lab). Lets not forget that UK national debt has risen by £555 billion since 2010 not fallen.

Think you'll find that if the true figures for non-doms using the NHS (either from the EU or outside ) were published there would be a public outcry. The NHS was conceived to give treatment at the point of need - which was a great idea at the time. These days the world and our country has changed, and so have the attitude of the people. They demand treatment not for illness or injury, but for self indulgence such as plastic surgery to increase their self confidence or a gastric bypass because they're too damn lazy to lose weight themselves. Tattoo removal is another. Add to all this the never ending queues of people from overseas who haven't paid a penny into our system and you can see why the NHS is doomed to fail, unless a drastic solution is found.

Check out the ingredients on the supermarket brand items - I buy their cold relief capsules which are I think about 65p a pack and they contain the same ingredients as named brand items for three times the price.

Everyone going on like buying a couple of pills going to save the NHS, NHS has far more serious problems than people getting prescription pills.

Sorry, as a nurse i have the strange affliction of taking anything that isn't nailed down! If that's wrong then lock me up and nail the key down.

You guys have no clue how the system works.

Well said.

What kills me is the total idiots who "travel" by bus or car to the doctor to get these on prescription, probably takes 2 hours to get through the appointment and still think that was cheaper and more sensible than buying a pack themselves when shopping!! The bus must cost £2 at least these days (dont use them so not sure), the government hasnt really advertised the scheme where the chemist can give them to you for free under the Small Ailments Scheme to save the visit to the doctor.

Enough of the sob stories and the CVs showing how much you work and therefore how much people who don't work don't deserve any sort of life at all.

Do you really think even "benefit scrounging" would be a decent life? really? wake up.

Government and the big business must love a lot of these comments; as you are all being taken for fools.
Do you really think the very small number of 'benefits scroungers' in this country is to blame for the NHS for the state it is in? or is it the health tourist immigrants all coming over here to be treated?

Look at who is meant to be responsible for running the health service effectively; the Government.
What have they done? the NHS is in its worst crisis EVER, yet not a single mention of it in the Autumn statement or funding.

No paediatric ICU beds, ED waiting lists >4hours, ridiculously low morale amongst nurses and doctors with a new contract which will make their task of providing you with SAFE and DECENT care increasingly more and more difficult. It's not hyperbole when you see the news reports on the TV about the state of the health service; all this under the Conservative government when it was in surplus when Labour left it.

Yet right now we are hearing "oh it's unsustainable".etc; if it's not being funding properly of course it's going to have problems.

People have to face the facts that the Government will need to pay more towards it. This likely means increasing taxes for it. They however don't have the bottle to do this.

However, they do have the bottle to reduce tax for big business, the extremely wealthy (£250,000+ pa), fly jets into Syria, trident missile subs, renovate stately homes and royal buildings with taxpayers money (when the owners are multi-millionaires).etc oh and one big thing; bailing out all the banks in 2008 (this one is the fault of all the parties).

I'm not a fan of NHS managers and think most are a waste of space but why has no one mentioned PPI? Pretty sure that is costing the NHS more than all the managers combined. Lets face it the government want it to fail; so they can sell it off to their mates. They don't give one s**t about you or your struggles, look at George Osborne, he took money from disabled people and the poor and he has already earned half a million this year.

Lmao - everything was in surplus when Labour left government apart from (oh yeah) the country. Like spending borrowed money is a great achievement and management. :laughing:

Think you mean PFI not PPI on your other point? :confused:

Healthcare spending is an infinite black hole. The more you spend, the longer people live. The longer people live, the more ill they get for longer at the end. :man:

You have to draw the line somewhere. You are right the government have declined to make a hard decision and raise taxes to fund more. Sadly they have also chickened out of the other decision options of:
> reducing what is provided
> getting people to pay separately in some way
All of these options are deeply unpopular so no decision made & NHS will continue to be asked the impossible with all the little and occasionally very sad and fatal frictions this causes. :disappointed:

Amazes me that people fall for this stuff about scroungers and immigrants bleeding the country dry. That's just distraction tactics from our dishonest and manipulative politicians.

These costs are a few hundred million a year (probably nearer to £100m). But we happily spent £50bn on the bank bailout and £12bn+ on nuclear subs that can't fight terrorists.

A bit of perspective is needed.

Oh sorry, I completely forgot these threads were patrolled by the punctuation police

Definitely less than.

No, I am taking about the OP.

It would be a good idea if the NHS charged all the time wasters. So lets say a ambulance goes to a call and it was a false alarm or the patient had a minor panic attack which didn't require a ambulance, they should be charged £40. Say if a patient is a hypochondriac and calls for a doctors appointment every week, that patient should be charged £10 if the outcome of the assessment was deemed unnecessary

What about the big wigs having conferences all expenses paid at our local hotel. in my opinion that's where the waste is in the nhs. unlike a private company, no one is accountable in the NHS.

For all who think pharmacies make a fortune from paracetamol prescriptions, please be aware that apart from a fixed dispensing fees of 90p, the pharmacies only get paid £2.28 per 100 paracetamol.
And the £8.40 prescription charge ( where applicable) is not retained by pharmacies and is forawarded to NHS.

If you ask at the instore pharmacy they sell them in packs of 32 and they are better value. Apologies if already posted, but this is one long thread...

Was standing in at the airport check in desk only to hear the mother of a family proudly announcing that they went to the doctor to get their free NHS suntan lotion for the holiday. On the flip side know folk that that work in the NHS drawing £50k+ salaries to produce surveys of surveys that the bottom line result is just pure common sense. Its about time that the NHS had a public HUKD of its own, instead of deals its issues we can vote on!

Well why the actual donkey cockadoodledo don't the Government use Asda's supplier for the NHS rather than the stupidly over hiked firms the Government use at the moment?

Psst.. I don't think the Government care so why should you.

This is exactly correct. Sometimes the expensive ones will have something like Caffeine too or some other kind of herbal remedy stuff. In terms of the actual paracetamol, it's the same stuff if its 19p or 19 quid

Yeah, I guess that's true. But knowing this and that outlets are forcing opinions on us is the first step to having a more balanced and informed opinion.

Can't say that the general public isn't being manipulated by tabloid giants such as daily mail et al. and their hate-filled rhetoric and scapegoat-ing.

Came across a guy who has just entered his 2nd IVA. Never worked a day in over a decade, but racked up over £20k of debt and entered an IVA. That cleared 6 years ago and he's spent the past year racking up another £14k which he's just entered another IVA for. He reckons he should actually pay around £1200 towards this in the end.
He was laughing saying this and then asked me to work harder and earn more tax because he needed a pay rise (in his benefits). I could've lamped him one!

​There really is no such thing as a free press anymore. Whether it's religion, politics or good old fashioned money, all news outlets serve an agenda.

This. Most mainstream media is owned by a select few wealthy individuals/corporations, and that's not a conspiracy theory. It's a massive problem. It means that agendas are pushed through these media outlets onto the common people, which seek to only benefit the interest of these corporate entities. Did we hear much about NHS contracts being sold to the for profit company Virgin/Richard Branson? Nope. Wonder why.

I was operated on by a Pakistani orthopaedic surgeon around 20 years ago. Nice guy and he turned my life around, I'm very grateful for immigrants in the UK.
People forget we live in an increasingly shrinking world and people like my surgeon have come to the UK to have a better life and work in a world leading system. If we had sufficient capable human resources within the UK then the visas offered would not be available and people like him would not be here.
He told me earlier this year when I went back to see him for a check up that after 35 years of working for the NHS that he's going back to Pakistan to settle for his pension years. Yes, he's drawing it from the UK purse and taking it abroad, but he deserves it. He could have earned more working in many other countries, but chose the UK. His 2 sons are surgeons and he has a daughter who is a psychologist all in the NHS. I won't mention a name on a public forum, but he has chosen to come here and we have reaped the benefits of him having done so since.
I think that after the hurt and suffering we have caused around the world then I'm surprised that former colonies are not bitter for centuries of pillaging carried out by the UK.

19p seems a good deal. Heat from me. Just wish we could buy more than 32 from the same place. Does it work if you go out of the store and back in on the same day? Just keep doing that until you got a few to make it worthwhile?

I remember seeing a post floating around being shared on Facebook about how buying paracetamol/ibuprofen from supermarkets save the NHS £xx. I think it's been debunked though. I mean, it may save a marginal amount of money, but we're talking the pences here, not pounds.

If anything, supporting your local independent pharmacy and paying that little extra is a much bigger investment than spending it in a supermarket giant which rains millions of pounds in profit. The cuts to community pharmacy really isn't helping the healthcare system.

​oh i know, ever the cynic lol. It so sad to see an institution created to do great stuff had just become gold mine for those serving their self interest.

​there are 3x more pakistani doctors as a proportion than compared to the general public..

http://www.wilko.com/coughs-colds-and-flu/wilko-max-strength-cold-and-flu-day-and-night-capsules-x-16/invt/0249131
Best price for day/night capsules.
Or, a cheaper option is to buy 19p paracetamol and these for 60p.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/decongestant---sinus-relief/sainsburys-max-strength-congestion-relief-x12

Is this a deal? it seems the goods on offer are retailing at normal prices so no deal.Cold from me

​haha never! good old BBC actually :wink:

DISCLAIMER - (before people get on their soap boxes) I am NOT talking about people who have a genuine need.

It really bugs me when I go into a pharmacy and tick the box to say I pay for my prescriptions when its full of low life's sucking the life out of the economy whilst contributing nothing to it. I don't mind paying and doing my part but there's so many leeches around who smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much and breed too much (without having the assets - financial and emotional) that really makes it tiring handing over £8/9 every time :disappointed:

Anyway...HOT lol

no GP prescribes Paracetamol anyway. :man:

You're actually attacking people who don't exist, a culture of benefit fraudsters has been discredited many times.

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

At less than 1% fraud rate, the benefits system is hugely efficient.I don't know if you've applied for JSA recently but they give you peanuts, wouldn't cover rent anywhere.

I think I found your problem


The Daily Mail by any chance? Stop reading rags.

The PL number means it's the same tablet inside the boxes so it can be different manufacturers with the same PL number! :smiley:

​Seriously, what are you on? I'm not attacking people who pay INTO the system!

Here is a fact that 3 or so years ago it cost the N.H.S £86 per patient to see the G.P not sure today's value and then as others have said and I have witnessed people going just for O.T.C medication/pain kills that cost pennies. G.P's you need to make people pay for these painkillers ontop of this last nights program G.P's behind closed doors a young Asian guy took a perscription for painkillers but then this DR should of told the guy to BUY these himself. This government and previous are all corrupt take backhanders, I'd better stop there before we go to deep

Drugs all have a Product License number (PL) on the box - if the PL numbers are the same, it's the same product from the same manufacturer (as far as I know). There was something on about it on BBC the other week. Not sure that Neurofen will have the same PL as a generic ibuprofen, but I'm pretty sure all their varieties (back pain, period pain etc) all have the PL number.

​again there are always exception, the point is about those people ordering basic items on prescription just to save themselves a £1. it's a massive issue in Northern Ireland as we all get free prescriptions and some people just take advantage costing the nhs millions in unnecessary costs.

I think pharmacies should hold more responsibility in supplying meds like this so safety protocols are there. I don't think they should be this cheap or available this easily in supermarkets. Paracetamol overdose is easily done if you think about all the products that have it in ie flu/cough meds etc and is one of the hardest things to reverse because of the small therapeutic index of the drug (toxicity is easily achieved if you take more than recommended.) Yes people might think it's a waste of resources for the NHS but just think about the cost and impact of accidental / non accidental overdose?

Good but the main reason the NHS is dying our governments choices.

I am typing this from a hospital bed, but I am fortunate enough to be in as a private patient and paying for my own medications!
I am shocked that anybody could think that we would be better off without the NHS, The inference being that it should instead be in private hands. Hasn't worked well for the rail industry, no care homes for the elderly - watch some of the exposes in this area! I believe it doesn't work too well America either.
Blaming certain social groups is just a distraction and misses the big picture that is government under-funding.
It would be a crying shame to lose the NHS, an institution we should all be proud of.

I always buy paracetamols in poundshop as I assume they're cheap. :disappointed:

I've lost count of the number of times I've queued up in the Pharmacy to get a prescription and heard every single person other than me in the queue say no when asked If they pay for there prescription...

The thing with these sorts of figures are that it's a one-eyed view of the picture. The reciprocal arrangement we have with the rest of the EU states means that the other EU countries pay far, far more for UK Health Tourists than the UK pays for EU Health Tourists. Being one of the richest countries in the world, we have a very much higher % of people travelling on holidays and the like than others. The UK bill for health outside of the UK is ENOURMOUS. Just think of the number of brits who are going to need attention from winter sports injuries, or the drinking accidents during the summer....

But hey, don't worry about that - we'll soon be free to pay just our own bills, and I think a quick search will show that UK costs outweigh EU costs to us by about 5 to 1. So we save a quid, but have to spend 4. lol.

The balanced view doesn't fit with today's thirst for outrage though

(edit: I'm not having a go at you btw! Or others! I'm concerned that the message is put out so one-sided. I think that is wrong.)

I think trump has been occupying the news quite nicely to sweep a few things under the rug.

All medications should be "opensource" and available for delivery online without prescription, no patents. And if paracetamol is available this cheap and you can self service the stuff (it is one of the most dangerous medications), then why do women have to do some stupid questionnaire or something to receive the relatively safe morning after pill?.

Why do people with mental health issues have to go through the process of calling a doctors and have to wait until the medication has run out before they can get the prescription (so travelling is a problem). Then they have to go to a Pharmacy and potentially pay £8.20 for a medication that they need in order to live a better life.

Not to mention the ridiculous waiting time in Pharmacies, how long does it take to pick a packet off a shelf or draw and put it in a bag?. Then they ask you loudly "Do you pay for your Prescriptions?", which in modern day Sun reading Britain has very negative social implications.

The system is broke, but it won't be fixed. Just more "NHS Foundation Trusts" and private firms milking the NHS for everything theyv'e got, whilst it lasts. Plenty of fat cats on the fiddle and execs taking back handers.
The post war socialist structure is being eradicated if you haven't noticed..

This is what you get with no meaningful opposition. And a huge group of apathetic constituents. I can't believe the Tories aren't getting more grief, their spin dept is masterful. I mean, everyone now has all their internet usage logged and available for a huge number of groups to access should they wish, including Works and Pensions, Police, etc - anyone squeak about that? Nope.... Everyone's too busy bewing outrageously outraged about some non-story involving a celeb somewhere. Then blaming immigration. :disappointed:

£8 billion over 6 years according to an article in the Guardian.

This is all rrp stuff wtf

Deal

does this save the nhs money. I thought socialised means we pay more for things like paracetamol and less for things like cancer treatment. for example a nhs proscription costs £8 but the nhs does not pay £8 for paracetamol so they are making money from it to subsidise the expensive medicane. if everyone bought over the counter cheap meds woundnt the whole point of socialised medication be undermined

Jonathan Pie did a good video on this. It's also happening to the BBC. A conservative government basically breaking socialist organisations because that way they can be privatised with no complaint.

It's not free, we all pay for the nhs.

​don't forget their husbands who own shops and businesses that on paper don't ever make a profit.....therefore zero tax for the household.

:smiley: Fantastic post, heat added.

Paracetamol has always been cheap in stores so I don't class this as a deal but more informative for the people that did not know. On the subject of the NHS haemorrhaging funds, why has no one mentioned 'health tourists' who take it for a ride to the tune of £600 Million per + year!

​Uneducated and uninformed? I'm a 31 year old Accountant studying at night school to better myself to better provide for my wife and future family. When I left school I worked nights in factories, I have worked day shifts in supermarkets while working evenings in pubs as a second job. I have worked as a brickies labourer and also swept the floors in a steel factory. For the last 9 years I have worked my way up from a credit controller to a Management Accountant. I have done my fair share of graft so I will not apologise for not showing respect to those who refuse to.

I don't understand how my views on thinking other people should have to work and pay their way offends your values. I'm genuinely interested how my comment offended you. All I can presume is that you yourself are jobless and receiving said benefits and have taken some exception to me saying you should be without your cancer sticks or 4k TV.

Don't do drugs kids

one of the worst demographic for this are the baby boomers pots of cash but still take take take what they can get for free

£43 for a GP appointment we're told; plus this mother gets to pass the cold (an incurable virus) on to however many more people she comes in to contact with (including the GP!), then the cost of the prescription too. This would be one of the many reasons the NHS is on its knees. Pay your pound in Tesco or Poundland and get your generic cold relief and stop wasting the country's money.

My wife and I have worked hard since leaving school and we believe in the NHS for what it was set up for. If you need basic care then you can have it. If you need a nose job, boob job, braces on your teeth for cosmetic reasons, etc then go and pay for it yourself. If you don't like it then find somewhere else that thinks that wasting thousands on these "treatments" should be funded by your peers and abuse their system instead.

As someone who "pays their dues" I am frankly fed up of subsidising others. We've been told to expect to pay an addition £3xx more on our council tax next year because we (just scrape) in to a "luxury" house banding. I need to pay to get my windows and doors replaced plus upgrade my hearing to modern standards when I have the pleasure of driving past council homes (which I am paying to subsidise) are getting them done. I'd love to have been allowed a council house when I started work but my wife and I didn't fit the criteria to get one, so we've had to pay our own way, and then pay for others to benefit from them instead. Even where we live I have to pay an annual maintenance charge for some open space to be tended to as it's a newish development, but we have to allow others in from out with our development who graffiti structures, damage equipment, etc we then have to pay to get brought back to a good standard.

Strip back the NHS to what it was designed for. Cut back public services to what they should have been. If you pay for something then you generally try to ensure that you get the most from it. If you don't pay then you tend to see it as not being of sufficient value to respect it.

If you've worked hard, you should get more. If you're unable to work, you should get more. Otherwise, no, try harder and live on the "breadline". There's 3 billion people in the world who have to survive on less than. £1 per day. What gives you the privilege to say your life is worth more than theirs solely by virtue of where you happen to be born.

Nobody in this country would starve to death without a food bank. You'd find they'd make a different choice of how their money is spent if it was actually that bad.

I support charities like mercy ship, like children's hospices, like refugee camps. These people rely on charity to live. They do not take advantage of other people's generosity because they are making bad choices.

Your woman above. If she reckons it's maybe once a year she does this, then I would support a 2p per week rise to her benefit payment to pay for the generic brand lemsip. That way I can expect to see a reduction in the money I pay to the UK government to pay for the wasted appointment and prescription.

Rant over!

Isn't that because they aren't allowed out in public unless accompanied by a male family member? Or is that another group?

Take a look at this..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/14RlXMhR7g7Dk09vK7YmWXl/are-more-expensive-painkillers-worth-the-money

nhs is in dire straits. Whenever i go , the excessive redtape and process, inefficient equipment make me double think.. that privatisation may have a point

£28 for 16 aspirin? Think I'll pass.

The only way you can save the NHS from bankruptcy is by voting. Vote the Conservatives out of office (and make sure UKIP don't get any power) and you will still have an NHS.

What we get for having a monopoly

Or vote for a government that increases the budget for the NHS instead of the privileged grammar schools

Wow, this thread is crazy, everybody has really strong views on the NHS. Personally I think the problem is the NHS needs to change, change costs money and people (generally) don't like things changing so it is trying to be run in a similar way it was when the population with access to it was 20 million less. Also the more medicine and medical procedures advance the more demand there is for the NHS. With demand the way it is the NHS is not fundable without massive tax increases. The real question for me is, do we all pay more taxes to fund for everybody or do we privately fund our own healthcare?

All well and good if you pay £8.20 per prescription, you save a packet. But what if like me you have an annual prepayment certificate? Should I choose to pay on top of that for cheap medications and this will save the NHS?