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Opening post
carolinej81
8 Dec 16
We are all acutely aware of the fact that the NHS is In crisis. We won't have an NHS anymore if people don't stop abusing it.
I've found several Generic brands of medication that could save you money when you need them and also maybe save a trip to the GP or A&E

Asda specifically, have
Paracetamol 500mgs x16 for 19p
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Painkillers-paracetamol/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Ibuprofen 200mgs x 16 for 25p
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Painkillers-ibuprofen/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Asprin 300mgs x 16 for £28p
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anti-platelets-aspirin-low-dose-/pages/introduction.aspx

Tesco have
Cold & Flu max strength capsules X 16 for £1.50 - otherwise known as Beechams or Sudafed cold & flu tablets which cost £4.99 and have exactly the same ingredients.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Decongestant-drugs/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Lots of stores, Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsburys, even home bargains and Wilko have these and other generic medicines side by side with the big brand name
Which costs up way more just because it's got a brand name...it's the same drug.

Hope this was helpful to some of you.
Remember to always read the label!!:wink:
Top comments
squiby
8 Dec 16 279 #28
Its not the patients bankrupting the NHS its the many levels of managers and contractors that pay themselves extortiante amounts for ghost contract.
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 157 #43
I think as good an idea as this is by the OP, its just the tip of the iceberg in relation to the services of this country being bled dry by idiots. Until the whole system is re-styled, they will never fix any of the problems. Stop giving out jobseekers allowance to people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months. Give them milk and bread vouchers. You want fags and a flat screen TV? Get you rass out to work and earn it like every other tax paying person in the country does. I read the constant sob stories in the press of "but i only want to be treated as an equal" and "i have a right to do what i want with my benefit money" - no you bloody well dont. It isnt your money and you shouldnt have it. Get out and make something for yourself. Sorry for the rant, but it annoys me something chronic when i see these wasters wandering around town when im on my lunch break. I just despair for the next generation, as im 31 now and i see the idiots i went to school with have never grown up and done anything in the world, they have just copied their parents into a life of benefits and handouts. The first politician that promises to fix this problem will get my vote whether they are Tory, Labour, UKIP, or the Monster Raving Looney Party.

When is enough, enough?
RedRain to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 104 #56
​wow i will tell you when enough is enough when over a million people are not using food banks because of sanctions when low paid workers are payied a living wage when the mps do something about tax dodging companys and when the sick and disabled are not being hung out to dry but yeah i am envious of that £60 to £70 aweek they have to live off and by the way i will not be viewing your reply so dont bother
quinno1977
8 Dec 16 69 #2
excellent post, one of my big gripes is that our government is paying 30 times the actual price to supply these cheap items on prescription. i go through lots of children's paracetamol and ibuprofen but buy them from home bargains for£1 a bottle. they would cost the nhs maybe 6 times that. wasted money.
Latest comments (921)
kirstyarnold1
14 Apr 17 #921
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random_dude
4 Apr 17 #920
​and what about us Rastafarian, alcoholic, crackheads?

we want equality, when do we want it? meh
JamesSmith
29 Mar 17 #919
And Tic Tacs
adedamilola1
29 Mar 17 #918
Same with VitD. Buy high dose vit D on Amazon.
snas00
24 Mar 17 #917
[quote=thomasleep]Just how does this save the NHS from going bust? you cannot state which brands(or generic) you want to be filled on a prescriptio

This is because the NHS and community pharmacies are two separate entities. A GP prescribes a medication, the pharmacy dispenses it. The NHS pays the pharmacy fees (I think around 90p) for dispensing the item, and they also reimburse them for the cost of the medicine. So if the pharmacy is supplying a paracetamol costing 20p to buy then NHS are having to pay £1.10 to the pharmacy for dispensing that one paracetamol! So if people who get free prescriptions go buy their own paracetamols the NHS will save a lot of money!!
ace_rees
23 Mar 17 #916
Voting hot whilst in hospital on an iv drip the ultimate irony
JamesSmith
21 Mar 17 #915
What if they are a gluten intolerant vegetarian?

Bread and milk isn't an adequate diet people would become malnourished.

And what about heating and clothing and toilet roll and transport costs to get to job, toothpaste so their teeth don't fall out and shampoo so they are presentable.

What about if you wanting to dictate how a person spends their social security money is fascism.

That people are free to spend the money how they choose has been enshrined in the legislature since it's inception for very good reasons, and the amount granted is tweaked by an uprating system. Indeed it's common practice for benefit documentation to explicitly state that people can spend the money how they see fit.

It's not North Korea yet boys!
DarrenBee4
21 Mar 17 #914
Too right
westernise
20 Mar 17 #913
Avoid ibuprofen if you have asthma or gastrointestinal problems.
JamesSmith
20 Mar 17 #912
Nope the NHS was one of the cheapest, most efficient healthcare systems in world in 2014 rated No.1 by the commonwealth fund : http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

The NHS is not being bankrupted it's being underfunded, since the Conservatives took office the UK has cut the percentage of overall budget and now pays 2-3% less per head GDP than our european rivals (9% vs 12-13%), and they refuse to pay more. This is a "by design" bankrupting and Health Minister Jeremy Hunt "wrote the book" on privatising the NHS. Literally, he's co author of "Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party" which calls for the 'denationalisation' of the NHS in favour of an insurance based model.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuNd-otIMAAh5I7.png:large

Aswell as underfunding, conservatives top down reorganisation also introduced expensive internal market systems. They are expensive because a) they introduce swathes of private profiteering into the system b) private companies rarely live up to their tenders and often there's no oversight (eg ATOS) c) all the additional layers of bureaucracy required to manage, review, oversee and administer contracts.

The most filthy part, is the underfunding of social care, causing a knock on effect to NHS hospitals who are now choked up with people who formerly had residential care homes, or home support to go to. Hence the A&E bed blocking crisis this winter.

Another interesting fact is for every £1 invested in the NHS, the treasury sees a return of £1.60. This is because the cost of people being unwell to society (especially lost productivity) outweighs the cost of making them better.

So rather than blaming the well paid managers - like many industries there are a lot - who are very well paid when the NHS was rated No.1 just 3 years ago - blame the Conservative party who are on an ideological mission to give Britain an American style health system.

A system where the only people who benefit are the senior executives of profit making companies, and the very wealthy to whom extremely expensive healthcare makes no difference.
Burhanu79
20 Mar 17 #911
​ very well said that
dizzylol
18 Mar 17 #910
Good post op! Just a shame the scroungers of Society will carry on abusing the NHS as they are self centred morons who only think of what they can get from the system! Have some heat! !!
Anonknowmouse
8 Mar 17 #909
Isn't the prescription cost a subsidized flat rate based on your expected income, and the government negotiates prices un-related to the prescription cost?!
One problem with the NHS seems to be the need to reduce internal and external corruption. You'd think it would be priority number one for as they lose billions to it, and spend a very tiny fraction of that on a department to investigate it (similar to HMRC and tax avoidance). I've read many stories of fake work from people and companies working in or for the NHS. The alternative is to privatize it like they do in the states, but that causes millions of people to go without healthcare because they can't afford it or can't get cover.
amour3k
26 Feb 17 #908
There's an interesting theoretical and/or literal side to that argument of yours still?.

Hmmmmmmmmm.
amour3k
26 Feb 17 #907
DOW!!, hahahahahaha.

That's irony for you?. :-(

Ps.
Galpram 'stuffs' can be found in SAVERS Stores too (and for LESS than £1 too!).

That's double irony right there for you also ..... :-(
amour3k
26 Feb 17 #906
Yep!.

I saw that Program too, it was a 1 hour MoneySavingExpert TV Program Special!, if I recall well? (with Martin Lewis).

It was on last month sometime?.

And was VERY GOOD TOO!. :-)
pablobanez
17 Feb 17 #905
There was a TV program on recently about medicines can't remember which Chanel, anyway there are some codes on the back of these medicines which are common to branded as well as the cheaper ones telling you the medicines are same regardless of costs. So cheaper is the same as buying the more expensive brands. Which I do.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/03/do-branded-painkillers-work-better-than-cheaper-generic-ones-iboprofen-nurofen
broadyo796
16 Feb 17 #904
Other facilities ? they're all slowing disappearing due to endless cutbacks from this **** government that shows no remorse whatsoever at the daily deaths that its lack of funding causes
.
broadyo796
16 Feb 17 #903
Save the NHS from bankruptcy .....with a government focused on selling it off to the private sector to line its own pockets I don't think that there's much chance of that happening.
steve10574
13 Feb 17 #902
I Blame flip flops!
immynanj
9 Feb 17 #901
... "Tesco have 

Cold & Flu max strength capsules X 16 for £1.50 -..."

These are made by Galpram and can be commonly found in poundland etc.
JamesSmith
6 Feb 17 #900
The quality of GPs vary markedly but I have to say most of the GPs I've met are in the job trying their hardest to improve patients quality of life. The GPs at my surgery qualified before salaries took off. I'm pretty sure looking up peoples bums, would come second to being a hedge fund manager, as a career choice if it was all about the dosh.

I'm fortunate to live in a country where healthcare is free at the point of access - I never take that for granted and recently wrote a letter of thanks to my GP because of her enduring support.

So no sense of entitlement - but I believe in socialised healthcare and it was working very well in the UK until recently and rated . So please tell me Dr, from your point of view what is the most productive thing members of the public can do, actively, to curtail the asset stripping and privatisation of the NHS by this government?
qwerta369
6 Feb 17 #899
Quite.
isobelbennie
6 Feb 17 #898
richardlj
29 Jan 17 #897
NHS getting over charged with generics... someone's on the payroll. we shouldn't have to but let's do this​
arash1
25 Jan 17 #896
Nhs needs to buy some, send it to everyone and fire all the doctors ( unnecessary expense anyway)
Paddy_o_furniture
22 Jan 17 #895
https://s27.postimg.org/9ctlf3woz/16174672_1365796383481805_8457086943502829346_n.png
aljack
22 Jan 17 1 #894
​Education.... Education..... Education. The uneducated need to be more aware of other facilities like pharmacies and minor treatment centres to get treatment rather than pitching up at ED for stupid stuff.
aljack
22 Jan 17 #893
The issue is not paying £8.20 for paracetamol on prescription. It's when you are discharged from hospital say after a minor surgical procedure and medications like paracetamol are given to you for free. It costs the NHS 40 times what it costs you to buy it yourself from the supermarket so if you have it at home then refuse it (paracetamol/ibuprofen) from health care professionals. Really the government should get a grip on the pharmaceutical companies for allowing them to charge it.
peaceoff
22 Jan 17 #892
You could save the NHS a thousand times more by eating more fruit and veg and doing exercise everyday. :man:
Neebaj
20 Jan 17 #891
​The NHS pays pharmacies only £2.19 for a box of 100 Paracetamol. These random figures being pulled out from where the sun don't shine shows a lack of how the system works. Yes cutting back on Paracetamol prescribing may save a few pennies for the NHS however it is like comparing a crater hole being filled with a spade, and a very small one at that.
cjabingham
14 Jan 17 #890
I will tweet lloyds and tell them that they are crooks!
bobbymartini
9 Jan 17 #889
​At last.....a post that makes sense.
kagamiofseirin
8 Jan 17 #888
For Brexit Voters, forget this and go just get the horse in the field by your house to give you a friendly lick on your forehead.

These pills were made by those "experts" you seem to hate...
Spid42
27 Dec 16 1 #887
I used to work in pharmacy and I can guarantee you that isn't where the money goes. It all goes to a manufacturer. In a huge amount of cases, the pharmacy doesn't even recover the cost of ordering the medicine in.

That, and the £8.20 charge goes back into the NHS. That's not pharmacy money. They don't get to keep that. The £8.20 fee is a contribution to the NHS, irrespective of the type of item - i.e., you get an inhaler that costs the pharmacy £90, or that pack of paracetamol, for the same price.

People buying cheap medication - when they can afford it - is a good thing. It won't save the NHS, but it's a damn good start.
ttttd
25 Dec 16 #886
Yes you are right. Still we should do what we can, one party will fund it properly and the other won't which is what it comes down to.
Orcinus_orca
24 Dec 16 1 #885
People need to eat healthier and do more exercise...the number of overweight people is shocking
tom_hungston
24 Dec 16 #884
I agree 100% ​
damiangrady4
23 Dec 16 #883
How about NHS staff getting paid full sick pay.
cmncomp
22 Dec 16 #882
drugs produced for pennies sold for 8.20 is probably what's propping up the nhs.
Micksabhoy
22 Dec 16 #881
I didn't say labour was the other option to be fair. Although I would think labour would be a bit tougher on millionaires and corporations who don't pay their share. Lets face it, the NHS has a lack of investment due to our government leaking money to the big boys in order to keep them happy.
Welsh Dragon
22 Dec 16 #880
That's laughable. The NHS in wales is in crisis and it's labour assembly government who decided that everyone should have free prescriptions, which is totally irresponsible!
Welsh Dragon
22 Dec 16 #879
The NHS should start charging for prescriptions in Wales. People are taking advantage, I've seen people get sudocrem, cotton wool and other stuff for free, not just medication. It's ridiculous.
They should at least charge a minimum fee.
bojangles
22 Dec 16 #878
NHS is broke & needs ripping up & restarting, not pumping money into a black hole in trying to fix it.
Gov. should give people an optional NI discount in return they take out a private policy to help take the stress off.
NHS patient treatment is fantastic once you get it, however there is to much pressure on GP's at the point of service.
Mental Health (this includes people suffering from Stress or need general counselling, etc.) has a lot to do with it & is an area that needs the biggest injection of cash with proper trained people. As it is, a lot just rock up at GP & unload their problems on them! I am lucky as we can see our GP same day, however Patients are screened to see if they do need an appointment or not.
The_KELRaTH
21 Dec 16 #877
Another option is change the way the NHS treat health issues. IE. I was eventually diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. It took nearly 2 yrs before I actually got insulin. I suffered bells palsy then huge loss of weight, endless neural pain eventually resulting in severe nerve damage, muscle wastage and cataracts in both eyes - result I was paralyzed and blind. I had to go private for cataract surgery as there was over a year waiting time through NHS but the real issue was down to the typical "see you in 2 - 3 months" appointment system as when you are ill without treatment or lets try this pill things quickly get worse and worse which results in more appointments and treatments with other doctors.
I ended up being stuck in a wheelchair for nearly 10 years and during this period I suffered from bacterial Keratitis while have treatment on my eyes and even though diagnosed I was sent home with steroid drops - result lost sight in 1 eye within 3 days and severely damaged cornea in other - because it was a Sunday. But all this started because they didn't treat my type 1 diabetes in a proper time frame so as not to cause further issues as well as incur the NHS a lot more money.
EveshamLad
21 Dec 16 #876
Thanks for posting OP.

Cracking deal! Voted HOT, HOT, HOT!
Gallois
21 Dec 16 #875
Unless you work in the NHS and understand the funding mechanisms I don't think you can truly appreciate the gravity of the current situation. If you can, read some STPs to get a feel for what we need to do over the next 5 years. One quick example in a small area is 'save £270 million, work together better and hope for a £65 million deficit at the end - best case scenario'. The NHS is imploding, and has been for a considerable amount of time. No amount of reorganisation (along the common cycle of centralisation/decentralisation) will fix it. It is an outdated social healthcare model that has no chance of ever working with the current funding mechanisms. You want a fully functioning NHS like you have grown to expect? Then you need to pay for it, either through more taxation (which is politically too difficult to take on and no one will want to do it), privatisation, or social health insurance more like mainland Europe.
Scorpion
20 Dec 16 #874
I certainly don't believe the Western worlds economic crash was all to do with Labour, that was as large a lie sold by Cameron as those sold by Farage, Johnson, Duncan-Smith & Gove earlier this year. What I meant was that switching government would possibly prompt another reshuffle, and those are incredibly costly to the NHS. Politicians do not understand that reorganising such a large organisation takes years, and the drop in productivity whilst people work on changing how something is organised is enormous.
ttttd
20 Dec 16 #873
Sample extrapolation still has to reach significance. You will find that the majority of statistics out there are based on some form of sample because no-one has time to collect a millions of datapoints from millions of people. Unless the datapoints are already recorded for some reason (e.g. disease) the stats are based on a sample.
ttttd
20 Dec 16 #872
I would say it is that simple unless you believe that the 2008 crash, originating in the USA housing market, was Labour's fault...
77andyb
20 Dec 16 1 #871
Total and utter, ignorant balderdash. My wife came to the UK 6 years ago to work in medical research and in setting up collaborations with universities around the world. In bringing high fee-paying foreign students into this country, she's literally brought millions of pounds into the UK economy. She came on the relevant work visa, and we married two years ago. Immigration rules means she needs to be earning over 30-odd grand a year to remain here, until she completes the 5 year 'spouse visa' pathway. She's brought more money into this country than most people will earn in a lifetime. And yet you think she shouldn't be entitled to access NHS services because her passport isn't a UK one yet? In the relatively short time she's been here, she's brought in more money than you or I will probably earn in our lifetimes. And bear in mind that she's also paying tax and NI, plus spending money in this country, so is contributing financially to this country in a huge way when all said and done. Think on.
Scorpion
19 Dec 16 #870
It's not that simple though. Granted 2004-10 saw a real upturn in NHS fortunes, going back to Labour now would probably be just as much bad news as it is with the Tories, just in different ways. What we really need is the NHS to be removed from political interference and its structure to be built around what is best for patients, not what is best for Whitehall.
Scorpion
19 Dec 16 #869
Then she ends up at A&E costing the system a whole lot more. Good call by the GP IMO.
Sumpte
19 Dec 16 #868
At least you're acknowledging they are, in fact, statistics - that's progress. But you haven't explained how they are being manipulated, nor offered a counter argument backed up with any evidence.
RuudBullit
18 Dec 16 #867
There are stats which are based on absolute fact, and then there are sample statistics. These are easily manipulated. You know this, but fail to acknowledge it because it doesn't suit your argument to do so. So please, feel free to continue to be condescending. It's all you have left.
Sumpte
18 Dec 16 #866
At this stage you're arguing that statistics aren't actually statistics because you don't agree with them. I'm not sure how I can address that without condescension, sorry.
RuudBullit
17 Dec 16 #865
Condescension.....good counter argument.

I understand perfectly how statistics work, and I also understand how they are manipulated by governments, police forces, businesses etc. You seem to be in denial that this happens.
Sumpte
16 Dec 16 #864
I don't think you understand how statistics work.
cb-uk
16 Dec 16 #863
Sure. According to the very latest figures by the Office of National Statistics (as per end Q3 2016) 69.8% of women were in work. So, by simple mathematics, if 69.8% of women are working then 30.2% of women are not working (69.8% + 30.2% = 100%)

Link: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/dec2016

If 57% of Pakistani women do not work, this puts them well over the UK's National average of 30.2%. In fact, it would seem that twice as many Pakistani women stay at home when compared to the national average.

There could be many reasons for this - it could be cultural, male oppression, lack of education plus a myriad of other reasons. Equally, according to the most recent census data, 22% of Muslim women say they don’t speak English or don’t speak it well - which presumably restricts their employment options (Source: https://fullfact.org/immigration/22-muslim-women-say-they-dont-speak-english-or-dont-speak-it-well/ )

So, those are the facts and it's absolutely nothing to do with "xenophobia". You may not like them or agree with them, but nonetheless they are the facts.

HTH :wink:
ttttd
16 Dec 16 #862
You are moving backwards in our debate and are repeating points I have already addressed - not responding to my responses but pretty much ignoring them.

Also it's a bit rich for you to ask me what my plan is when I've been asking you for a while now what you mean by "complete decentralization". I still have no idea what your idea of "independent units" actually looks like, other than their qualities: fraud free, autonomic, minimally bureaucratic etc etc...

For reference, it would be to go after evaded taxes and restore social care funding which will already solve the majority of its financial issues, and then reassess there. There's always been fraud but you forget that the NHS was doing just fine until 2011 or so.

You know I don't actually disagree with you that we should go after fraud and create a more transparent structure, just that it's not the main reason for its problems and there are more effective things we should do first. I won't be continuing this debate, I don't think there is any point...
sm-1991
16 Dec 16 #861
Probably because their husbands work? they are called housewives....the fact you singled them out shows your xenophobic side. Do you have figures for white women to hand? or is it JUST Pakistani Women?
RuudBullit
16 Dec 16 #860
It clearly says it's based on a sample, the sample cannot possibly be of those they haven't caught.
Why would any government admit to being inept, which is what they would essentially be doing if they say benefit fraud is high.
Sumpte
16 Dec 16 #859
...it's a statistic. If you open the PDF, the first thing you read is:

"Fraud and Error in the Benefit System: 2014/15 biannual National Statistics, Great Britain"

A - Explain why they can't?

B - Why would the Conservative government, who like to blame poor people for everything, want to under-report the amount of fraud in the system?
Hare_Krishna
16 Dec 16 #858
ttttd here is even *more* evidence of the "caring officers" within NHS. Over-charge by the drug companies of this sort does not happen without inside knowledge. There has to be colluding with the drug companies for monetary gain. There has got to be corruption within NHS for this to take place.How can this sort of exploitation of NHS have gone on unnoticed? Judge for your-self: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nhs-overcharge-drugs-12000-hypercortisone-tablets-actavis-uk-company-a7478711.html

ttttd you stated, "What does your vision of independent units look like, except for the fantasy of not having any bureaucracy?"

It is not "fantasy" it is called being t-r-a-n-s-p-a-r-e-n-t. There is a *need* for NHS to be transparent. If £120 million goes to fraud there will be *more* in future unless this is stopped and---- stopped for good. The evidence is already there. There has to be checks and balances to put a stop to this ever mounting raids on NHS by the drugs companies and the inside colluding NHS officers. How else can you have this huge price increase rackets going on for years and years? How can nobody notice this within the NHS--- for years and years? This bureaucracy(bureau-crazy) business has got to go and be replaced by a transparent structure.
Luxury leads to poverty. We just can not afford the bureau-crazy in NHS: it has got to go. No fantasy. Just being practical.
catbeans
15 Dec 16 #857
If hotukd members want to help the NHS they siuld start by posting so many chocolate and booze deals :man:
doctor43
15 Dec 16 1 #856
Thank you for that nice comment, that made my day! I am feeling sorry for myself and being a bad patient...with tonsillitis of all things! Some may say that's karma though.
Micksabhoy
15 Dec 16 1 #855
Save the NHS from bankruptcy stop voting tories
Hare_Krishna
15 Dec 16 #854
ttttd you stated, "Who is it that doesn't care about the NHS, other than the current government? Is there anyone actually within the NHS who does not care about the NHS?"

Fraud means that this was an inside job with those in knowledge who stood to gain from it. So those that were involved in fraud were they caring for NHS?
You criticize the current Government. But what is your plan for saving the NHS?
Please present your plan for saving the NHS with references, links.
Thank-you very much!
olilovespies
15 Dec 16 #853
Your patients are lucky to have you. Keep up the good work.
doctor43
15 Dec 16 1 #852
You could go down that road, and give patients an ultimatum, and sometimes that is appropriate, so if a patient on strong Pain killing medicine says they need something stronger...generally my ears **** up, as they are asking for morphine often, and yes it's appropriate to say no you can't have morphine for your sciatica, or indeed you can't have antibiotics, or you can't have "something to help you sleep".

However the patient who had liquid form antibiotics is 18, she has probably only started coming to the GP alone in the last year or two, maybe less, and me or someone else has to try to maintain a relationship with that patient, and banging my fist off the desk and saying I WILL NOT GIVE YOU THIS MEDICINE and falling out with them them first time I meet them isn't likely to encourage her to come back. So when she catches chlamydia (and says she isn't going back to that GP because I was unpleasant and made her feel bad, and didn't help her) and so remains untreated, spreads it around, and ultimately becomes infertile and costs the NHS thousands, in treating her contacts and treating her complications, because she didn't feel able to come back the cost of those antibiotics may seem insignificant. Or when she develops a mental health problem, and doesn't feel she can talk to me, and that then becomes an enduring mental illness, and she doesn't ask for help, and reaches a point where she can no longer work, lives on benefits and contributes nothing to society.....then the £59 for liquid medication doesn't seem like such a big deal. Whilst I appreciate these are generalisations, I know the patient population well where I work, in an area of deprivation, and those scenarios will very possibly occur, and so sometimes you need to play the long game. Perhaps it doesnt always seem like it, but GPs try hard to maintain a good relationship with patients, because they do want patients to present early, with their STI, their cancer etc. They do want you to come and have your smear, your blood pressure check, your diabetes check, yes for your own health, but in the long run to save the NHS money. So there needs to be a bit of compromise and goodwill to get patients to engage with the healthcare system, which in the long term is cost saving. Unfortunately long gone are the days of the doctor says do this and the patient says....certainly doctor. But if that apparent compromise or giving in as some people seem to see it, turns my patient into a demanding patient, i.e the antibiotics patient thinks if she digs her heels in every time she comes in, she will get what she wants, then that quickly becomes apparent, and at that point you stop it in its tracks.

Sometimes you need to accept that no matter how irritated it makes you feel, seeing patients is not a battle and if is you shouldn't be dealing with them, and sometimes, as in this case, you need to make short term or one off concessions for a longer term gain, which is getting them to engage with you, and patients talk you know, so if that patient goes away satisfied, she may then say to her mum, friend, sister, whatever who has been putting off coming in because she doesn't like going to the doctors, that I was ok, and listened to her, and so that other person may then feel able to come in and tell me about something. And again we might be able to nip something in the bud, and ultimately require less resources.

You might think your GP looks bored or uninterested, but there is a lot going on under there besides just signing your precription. I think most of us are thinking....all the time, what is best for the patient, but also where is this going to go, if I do this or that, we think about the long term too, and how the decisions we make with you/about you are going to pan out, and yes I guess what kind of patient might we turn you into if we do or do not do something. And the issue of cost is not at the top of the list, and I don't think it's appropriate for it to be, otherwise I don't do my job to the best of my ability. But it's there, lurking. It always is.


Oh, and BTW Master G.....I am not a sir, and as you will find, most of the Gp's in the UK are not.
blugardian
15 Dec 16 #851
Perhaps if the opinionated experts on here put as much passion about paracetamol into their kids education 2/3's wouldn't be obese sending the bill for diabetes and further complications into the billions, getting smashed and either using up police resources or clogging up A+E most of the week due to binge-drinking.

Paracetamol??
Nice job Mums and Dads of the UK, your killing our NHS!
MRP
15 Dec 16 #850
My doc would never give these on prescription. Ever. Seems strange if it happens...

The main issue with the NHS is funding on a basic level. People want high standards out of low funding. Its pretty much doomed at the current rate. Unless people accept much lower standards given funding.
RuudBullit
15 Dec 16 #849
This is not a stat, it's an estimation based on a sample of fraud found. You're assuming that,
A. The government has any idea how much fraud is actually being carried out. Given the nature of fraud, they're not likely to.
And,
B. That the government would be honest about it even if they did know.
dragon_ninsu
15 Dec 16 #848
I have an offbeat solution for the NHS crisis though dont think politicians or pharma companies will like it.

NHS floats its own pharma company which manufactures all drugs which have come off patent and only those are allowed on NHS prescriptions. There will still be some drugs which are in patents but will reduce the costs significantly.

NHS has its own Research and development to come out with new drugs which will be tested ethically and not just to line pharma execs pockets.

NHS enjoys excellent reputation worldwide, we start selling all these drugs to the rest of the world and turn our beloved NHS into a self sustaining entity
smk77
14 Dec 16 #847
I have to say I agree with the tablets or nothing. According to the NHS website, self treatment for tonsillitis:

"Over-the-counter painkillers, such as paracetamol and ibuprofen, can help relieve painful symptoms such as a sore throat."

If someone is suffering from tonsilitis and needs pain relief the how can they forget to take painkillers? :confused:
Master G
14 Dec 16 #846
Whoooa..... she insisted on liquid? You are the one prescribing. Just say "tablets or nothing" What's wrong with you? You, sir, appear to be part of the problem.
ttttd
14 Dec 16 #845
You have a very strange idea of what's going on with the NHS right now. Who is it that doesn't care about the NHS, other than the current government? Is there anyone actually within the NHS who does not care about the NHS?

"Total decentralization" - what does that even mean? The American system before ACA? I got news for you buddy, it was a bureaucratic nightmare because nothing was organized or co-ordinated...

"Independent units" what on earth are you talking about? What does your vision of independent units look like, except for the fantasy of not having any bureaucracy?
Hare_Krishna
14 Dec 16 #844
You stated, "Actually the real cost to the NHS (on the scale of billions) is the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which devolved (or decentralized as you put it) financial decisions to the regional level. Now each region has it's own bureaucracy and overhead has shot up".

The NHS system needs a complete overhaul. Retaining regional bureaucracy is not good enough.
Regional level has *also* to be decentralized. Unless there is *total* decentralization and complete *removal* of bureaucracy - incompetence,wastage,fraud will be the norm. They must function as *independent* units with *individual* managers:
"Proprietorship turns sand into gold." A person working on his own account, he can turn sand into gold, but a person working for others' account, that is not possible. He will be slow. He will be slow because the purpose is that "Why shall I work so hard?
What is happening is that nobody cares for NHS because they think that it is not mine so why care? Let the thing go on whatever breaks,steals,wastes not my problem. When something is yours you naturally work harder to make it a success. There *has* to be incentive.
ttttd
14 Dec 16 #843
Actually the real cost to the NHS (on the scale of billions) is the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which devolved (or decentralized as you put it) financial decisions to the regional level. Now each region has it's own bureaucracy and overhead has shot up.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-under-coalition-government

£120m is not nothing as you said. But we need to choose which battles we fight. You won't save £120m from cracking down on dodgy dealings because it costs money do crack down. So do you want to save less than £120m or billions?

You need to fix the major problems before you go chasing pennies.
Hare_Krishna
14 Dec 16 #842
You say, "With a fraud level of £120m, it forms 0.1% of the NHS budget. This is well within acceptable parameters - fixing this won't save the NHS"
Luxury leads to poverty. You have save every penny to make NHS accountable. Agreed, £120 million is not going to save the entire NHS but it *can* create employment opportunity to thousands student nurses. Besides, £120 million is just the tip of the Ice Burg. We do not exactly know how deep is the fraud problem -yet. Lets not forget some MPs who were involved in the expenses scandal for many many many years. Shove this £120 million under the carpet and forget it as insignificant? no. Luxury leads to poverty. The amount of loss means that taxpayers will see increase in taxes.

You are highly critical of Daily Mail. But - it has covered some interesting news also.
This Increase in Tax proposal is mentioned by Jeremy Hunt:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4031336/Jeremy-Hunt-believes-families-money-away-like-pensions.html

My own conviction is:
The sanguine proposal however, would be to *decentralize* the Bureaucratic NHS into smaller units each with responsible individual managers. This is the way forward for the future of NHS. £120 million fraud loss was because of centralized bureaucracy. Luxury leads to poverty.
Money_Expert
14 Dec 16 #841
I wish Brexit article 50 would happen sooner :disappointed:
CoqueVsBull
14 Dec 16 2 #840
When I wrote to the Labour Secretary For Work And Pensions, his secretary replied to me saying I could get a loan. Yeah right, when a large profit is being made on a £4000 qualification cost, that could probably be done for under £1000 (the price being made-up based on salary expectations of all of £22K or some lame figure post-qualification)? The problem isn't the benefits part of the system - the problem is PRIVATE PROFIT being made from the parts of the system that USED TO BE taxpayer funded and USED to actually HELP. Then the corrupt politicians LYING that private = efficient!

I was prompted to write because as soon as I got (barely) well-enough to attend a course that (realistically, for once) promised to get me employed, via teaching above-and-beyond the exam, in order to make people GENUINELY-employable for the specific role... their government funding got CUT. By New Labour.

I made the point that they could give £thousands to people in handouts, and WOULD do so, inevitably. That it was a completely-false economy when those people would be paying back more in tax in just 9-12 MONTHS than they would take in benefits in TWO YEARS - IF they could still go on the course. Plus, the reply from the secretary of the Secretary was so patronising - telling me what I already knew, as if I'd been too lazy or stupid to look at all my options already... Guess who the REAL lazy-stupid demographic is?
steamuk
13 Dec 16 #839
If this really happens (and I'm not saying it does not), it shows how taken for granted for the NHS is and how a little compulsion may be well overdue, not just in the patients but in the Drs who prescribe such things.
doctor43
13 Dec 16 #838
http://www.medicinewaste.com/campaign

Might be of interest - but it will take more than this to sort the NHS out.
doctor43
13 Dec 16 2 #837
Could it be those patients who are incensed at buying OTC paracetamol were hoping for something a little stronger eg co codamol ? :smirk:
Yes that is sometimes the case, but not often.....most of these types of people have a fairly elaborate and over-complicated story prepared to get stronger drugs!

I don't think we are thinking buying paracetamol is going to save the NHS, I think it's just being used as an example which most people can relate to.....e.g they know how much it costs in the shops, and so can appreciate that there is a massive difference between the cost via a shop and via a GP.

Of course you will not expect me to say I am paid too much, I work damn hard for it. Without going into the finer points of my salary, and bearing in mind it varies from area to area and country to country - I had 51 patient contacts last Monday and was paid £7.80 per contact, that is a mix of face to face, calls and visits - with most of those involving some degree of responsibility from prescribing the good old paracetamol to prescribing drugs at the end of someone's life, to deciding if someone needed to be admitted to hospital, to being asked to decide over the phone by a paramedic if someone I had never met should be admitted to hospital, based on a set of numbers and symptoms. So I think I earned my £7.80 every time! Oh and then I had 50 documents to look at, bloods, letters - decisions to be made, and then had around 120 prescriptions to check and sign. I completely agree that it's a lot of money, but with it comes a lot of responsibility, a few sleepless nights and some very long hours and days without lunch! And I wouldn't swap it for the world - sure patients frustrate the life out of me at times, they can be rude, angry, perplexing and demanding. But they also allow you the privilege of being involved in the biggest events in their lives - they let you into their head and into their heart, they often say "I have never told anyone this before....." and they trust you to do the right thing. They can inspire you, make you smile, make your day, sometimes make you cry and every day I love going to work.

Anyway.......that was a bit off topic.

Someone asked why the NHS pays the cost of these expensive drugs......I don't really know the answer, but I think taking a look at drug companies goes at least some way to answering that. Unfortunately if they produce a drug and no-one else does - if that is still under patent, there is no way that I know of, to circumvent that. When it comes off patent that is different. It is unfortunately the case that drugs that are "essential" or required in liquid or other forms are easy pickings for drug companies I suspect.

I think to the person who commented that doctors should be making the cost of drugs more widely known....I don't disagree as per my example of the liquid antibiotics - but as you can see the response from the patient wasn't ideal either! Sure we can try to rationalise the use of medicines, encourage patients to buy things where possible (bearing in mind Scotland has no prescription charge and so it's an uphill battle in that respect, as everything is free if you go to the GP!), but patients need to do their bit by asking themselves if they really need paracetamol (sorry - I'm not obssessed with paracetamol - well maybe a tiny bit) or is it "just in case", do they really need to tick every item on their repeat prescription, I think some people think - it's free, so why not? Except it isn't free. If you want to start a campaign to highlight the cost of common medicines OTC versus prescribed I'm right behind you. I think the fact the NHS has always been free at the point of need has made some people shy away from discussing cost with patients, as patients generally respond by saying "I pay my taxes so I'm entitled" and doctors in the past I think were a little frightened to tell patients they were giving them a cheaper drug as patients would be upset and think it was somehow attaching a sense of value, or not, to that patient e.g I'm giving you Acidex not Gaviscon because its £3 a bottle cheaper. Patients then decide it won't work before they take it, and then they say Bob next door gets Gaviscon, and his GP doesn't give him the cheap stuff......Oh God and on it goes and it all gets too messy for words!!! I don't shy away. I tell them the cost of things if it is relevant. I think people who pay their taxes need to realise their taxes don't go very far.

As far as the question of triage goes, that starts at the door of the surgery, some reception staff are very skilled at re-directing patients to pharmacies, opticians etc, there is then a further layer of triage if it's not clear whether a patient needs a face to face appt, and a GP will speak to them on the phone, and if an appointment is then needed then it's given.

Ok.....rant over - that's better!
JamesSmith
13 Dec 16 #836
Would like to hear the views of the GP on this.

Here's something else you might like to know - the average cost of a GP appointment in England is £200 (to the public purse.. as of a couple of years ago when I heard this discussed on Radio 4).

At my surgery patients just press a couple of buttons on a computer and are given an appointment slot, like they were dispensed £200 at an ATM.

Time is money. GPs salaries are very high and they are very overworked.

Not casting aspersions on patients but wouldn't some sort of triage alleviate pressures here? :smirk:
MadeInBeats
13 Dec 16 #835
BUT... why is this going on? Why hasn't anyone with more than 10 braincells said let's not pay well over the odds for these things anymore? I don't understand how this has been allowed to go on? It's basically fraud or grand misconduct on someone's part.

It's like the NHS is being driven to fail on purpose... I know doctors like yourself work hard already, but every doctor in the land should be getting together and getting this info out at all times. It's a crime to let it go on like this unaddressed.
Dantooine
13 Dec 16 #834
Who buys paracetamol from the doctors? Surely far more expensive.
JamesSmith
13 Dec 16 #833
Could it be those patients who are incensed at buying OTC paracetamol were hoping for something a little stronger eg co codamol ? :smirk:

Can we be honest here. Patients perceptions matters and they should be discouraged from seeing a GP for minor ailments. But isn't the REAL problem with the NHS stemming from the systematic reorganisation and dismantling by a Tory government..

The NHS was rated one of the most efficient and cost effective health systems in the world prior to Tory meddling, now it's on the brink of collapse. By design - privatisation by the back door.

Whilst well meaning and worth applying the principle, buying paracetomol OTC isn't going to undo the damage being done - against the will of the vast majority of the public - and people ought to be focusing their attention and actively doing something to prevent our most treasured institution from being destroyed.

Remembering of course that the NHS was created in a time of enormous national debt (almost bankrupt Britain post WW2), far worse conditions than exist now.

[Some might also point to excessive GP salaries being a concern, but might be rude to mention that...:wink:]
doctor43
13 Dec 16 #832
I am a GP in Scotland, and it costs £10 to prescribe paracetamol - taking into account the GP time, dispensing fee, drug cost etc. It costs 19p to buy. It's a no brainer. However, there are a certain group of patients who are outraged when any suggestion is made that they can buy things OTC. I have started to tell patients (I choose who to tell) how much it costs us - if I feel they genuinely can't afford to buy a few packets then I will happily issue it.

It doesn't just apply to paracetamol.....many patients have no concept of the fact that the NHS is free to them, but it still needs to be paid for. I spoke to a teenager a few weeks ago (someone who was 18) who needed treated for tonsillitis. I offered her tablets, she said she wouldn't be good at taking them as she wouldn't keep up with them and forget. She asked for liquid, I had quite a long conversation trying to understand why liquid medication would make her more compliant.....I still haven't figured it out, but she insisted it would. It wasn't a swallowing issue, it was a remembering to take them issue. I even told her tablets were £1.28 a course and liquid was costing the NHS £59-ish. So if she was able to take tablets that would be helpful. She didn't even flinch and just said she wanted the liquid. I suspect she still will not finish the course. That made me feel very despondent about patients perceptions of what they can expect and should expect.

I think in Scotland, where prescriptions are free, there needs to be re-introduction of even a nominal charge. I also wonder about GP practices selling simple drugs/OTC drugs like paracetamol, I think if patients were able to get what was recommended in one visit, in a reasonable quantity (e.g more than they are allowed to buy from a shop, for example 100 tablets as if often prescribed) most would not begrudge the couple of pounds it costs for many medicines. 100 paracetamol costs £2.70 if you bought that OTC. Sure some people really can't afford that, but most people can. Purchasing them from a surgery would be cheaper than issuing a prescription, and if the GP says that's what the patient needs, and this is documented, then that places no responsibility on reception staff etc.

I agree with the original post -the NHS absolutely will not survive unless things change. Yes there are many sources of inefficiency, but medication usage is a massive element of this. I sign often hundreds of prescriptions in a day, for several drugs at a time, many of which are cheap OTC and expensive on prescription. And this is for one small practice in a small town. This happens all over the UK, every day.
doctor43
13 Dec 16 1 #831
I am a GP in Scotland, and it costs £10 to prescribe paracetamol - taking into account the GP time, dispensing fee, drug cost etc. It costs 19p to buy. It's a no brainer. However, there are a certain group of patients who are outraged when any suggestion is made that they can buy things OTC. I have started to tell patients (I choose who to tell) how much it costs us - if I feel they genuinely can't afford to buy a few packets then I will happily issue it.

It doesn't just apply to paracetamol.....many patients have no concept of the fact that the NHS is free to them, but it still needs to be paid for. I spoke to a teenager a few weeks ago (someone who was 18) who needed treated for tonsillitis. I offered her tablets, she said she wouldn't be good at taking them as she wouldn't keep up with them and forget. She asked for liquid, I had quite a long conversation trying to understand why liquid medication would make her more compliant.....I still haven't figured it out, but she insisted it would. It wasn't a swallowing issue, it was a remembering to take them issue. I even told her tablets were £1.28 a course and liquid was costing the NHS £59-ish. So if she was able to take tablets that would be helpful. She didn't even flinch and just said she wanted the liquid. I suspect she still will not finish the course. That made me feel very despondent about patients perceptions of what they can expect and should expect.

I think in Scotland, where prescriptions are free, there needs to be re-introduction of even a nominal charge. I also wonder about GP practices selling simple drugs/OTC drugs like paracetamol, I think if patients were able to get what was recommended in one visit, in a reasonable quantity (e.g more than they are allowed to buy from a shop, for example 100 tablets as if often prescribed) most would not begrudge the couple of pounds it costs for many medicines. 100 paracetamol costs £2.70 if you bought that OTC. Sure some people really can't afford that, but most people can. Purchasing them from a surgery would be cheaper than issuing a prescription, and if the GP says that's what the patient needs, and this is documented, then that places no responsibility on reception staff etc.

I agree with the original post -the NHS absolutely will not survive unless things change. Yes there are many sources of inefficiency, but medication usage is a massive element of this. I sign often hundreds of prescriptions in a day, for several drugs at a time, many of which are cheap OTC and expensive on prescription. And this is for one small practice in a small town. This happens all over the UK, every day.
furbix
13 Dec 16 #830
I don't get it, I've always bought these things from supermarkets.

When something is free there will always be shortages as people will abuse it but how are they getting these things for free?

I don't even bother going to my GP because they always seems to refer me to private treatments which I can't afford or say there's nothing wrong with me.
olilovespies
13 Dec 16 #829
You don't work in meds management do you?!
olilovespies
13 Dec 16 #828
Completely agree. The issue is people requesting paracetamol "just to have in the cupboard" or for occasional fever in kids. For chronic pain prescribed paracetamol has a valid part in pain management and may actually stop people needing more expensive drugs or interventions. I appreciate that there is a lot of waste in the NHS, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, but self care does have the potential to save much needed money.
r40
13 Dec 16 #827
paracetamol is 17p in Savers to get back to the point of the post!!! lol!
traviscrouch
13 Dec 16 #826
​Sorry, I haven't got time to read 40 pages of nonsense. It costs the NHS an average of £3.83 per prescription of paracetamol... Never mind the cost of the doctors time. I've heard of people making appointments just to get free painkillers.

Anyway... What point are you trying to make?
kingkongminesh
13 Dec 16 1 #825
This is not a deal at all, these prices are standard at any supermarket and have always been this price

COLD
JamesSmith
13 Dec 16 1 #824
You are the problem. People like you. A walking talking product of societal manipulation by the elites, and too blind to see it.

Don't hate the player - hate the game.

Bring on BASIC INCOME.
Sumpte
12 Dec 16 2 #823
No, they are estimates of total fraud occurring, not just what 'gets caught'. Read the footnotes of the page.

These are actual figures produced by an actual government agency, not your 'real life experiences'. The impact they have on your life is negligible, you simply choose to be more concerned about it than personal and corporate tax evasion. As is clear from your comments, you think everyone on benefits is a scrounger who wants to commit the crime of riding motorbikes and drinking alcohol. How dare those poor people do that.
ttttd
12 Dec 16 1 #822
This is because the Daily Mail have been found to make things up out of thin air, several times. Also the article provides nothing tangible, there are no figures, nothing.

I've done your work for you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10134429/Drug-firms-price-racket-calls-for-inquiry-into-drug-companies-overcharging-NHS.html

With a fraud level of £120m, it forms 0.1% of the NHS budget. This is well within acceptable parameters - fixing this won't save the NHS. Please provide better arguments.
smk77
12 Dec 16 #821
You have thought out you response well with sensible stats that demonstrate the 'news' we're fed from the likes of the Daily Mail is just nonsense. Must be a remainer...
jimbobaggins
12 Dec 16 1 #820
So effectively, if we were able to eliminate all forms of benefit fraud across Housing Benefit, Pensions, Employment and Support - with 60m UK inhabitants... each person will gain an average of £1.66 extra per year.

If you genuinely think it is going to make you better off, I am afraid the losses we will be sustaining in the first hour once Brexit actually happens, will dwarf that, so you have some hard times ahead.

You should be focusing your anger and frustration on those who imposed a trillion pound debt on you, your kids and grandkids back in 2008. Otherwise, you risk being 'left behind' forever.
buglawton
12 Dec 16 1 #819
Will be needing these after spending all my benefits on booze. Thanks OP :stuck_out_tongue:
RuudBullit
12 Dec 16 1 #818
​No I didn't 'kind of' say that, you just chose to interpret it as such. The figures are based on the actual amount of fraud that gets discovered. There is nothing else to base it on. How many people claiming benefits have other forms of income, for instance? The government has no idea. And the reason why these people are targeted as a problem, is because the guys growing weed in their lofts, and breaking into your house when you're on holiday, and riding motorbikes around the estate, and the people in a and e wankered on a saturday night are more than likely also claiming the dole. I don't read the daily mail and never have, these are real life experiences, and whilst the figures might be small, the impact this class of people have on other people's lives is massive.
GAVINLEWISHUKD
12 Dec 16 #817
This is what TIS was introduced for so you won't be out of pocket to go to interviews. As for travel to the job centre more than 95% of claimants live within travelling distance. If you fall outside the guidelines then you can continue your claim via post.
OptimusPrimeval
12 Dec 16 1 #816
This site should be renamed...

TOXICukdeals.
hatton420
12 Dec 16 #815
Hardly gonna save the NHS is it?

Stupid.
Sumpte
12 Dec 16 2 #814
Well yeah, you kind of did - because you were talking as if benefit fraud was a real, serious problem when it really isn't (except in the minds of Daily Mail readers).

The statistics are based on estimates of actual fraud occurring, i.e. not some guy looking at their local job centre and complaining that they're all lazy scroungers cheating the system. The government can be aware of it occurring based on prosecutions or simple estimates - it's bizarre to say they can't possibly measure it because 'if they could they could stop it'; the same could be said of any crime like drug use.

Here are the figures for you to look at yourself, you want page 9:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/473968/fraud-and-error-stats-release-fy-2014-15.pdf

Housing Benefit fraud is 2.4%, Pension Credit fraud is 1.8%, Employment and Support Allowance fraud is 1.2%, and Jobseeker's Allowance fraud (what you seem to be talking about) is 3.2%.

Shock! Horror! Oh, except it only costs £100m. That's a quarter of the entire NHS budget....in 1948. It's current budget is £116.4 billion, making JSA fraud a whopping 0.09% of their budget.

So yeah, benefit fraud is really taking away valuable tenths of a percent of the NHS budget.
tonyenglish
12 Dec 16 4 #813
It would be an idea if the people who come up with these threads understood how prescriptions work. There are some fantastically expensive medicines out there - cancer drugs that run to many thousands per year but their use, I'm comparison to the vast quantities and range of medicines is pretty small. So that people can afford the expensive drugs a prescription service was devised whereby a standard price is set which means the vast majority pay £8+ for medicines that are way cheaper and this overpayment is used to subsidise the expensive drugs. So when the OP calls for a boycott of getting cheap drugs on prescription, it's the people who don't use the prescriptions service who are actually costing the NHS money...not the other way around.
donbarney
12 Dec 16 #812
SAVE THE NHS? Isnt that the job of our prime minister? the one that goes around wearing £1,000 leather trousers.
the torries are going to wear the nhs down to the point of them saying that the only thing they can do is privatise it.
I can see it from a mile away, same thing has happened to our rail
tearfly
12 Dec 16 3 #811
Oh dear, you need to stop reading the Daily Mail. How do milk and and bread vouchers pay for travel to the job centre or job interviews? Think before you type.
Scorpion
12 Dec 16 5 #810
The reason the NHS is short of money is far more complex than that. The issues with it are far from just management, in fact the NHS has an incredibly low spend on management in percentage terms compared with any other large business.

Problems with the NHS:
- Government interference; it's still trying to sort out the mess Andrew Lansley left it in - he's responsible for the biggest degradation in NHS services in the past 25 years.
- The system of commissioner/provider doesn't work. Commissions try to buy health services as cheaply as they can, Providers want people in through the doors so they get paid for it. Each person who walks into to A&E costs a CCG £75 or so, even if they then decide to go home.
- The removal of admin. It doesn't seem to click with some people that paying someone £15k pa to do paperwork to free up higher paid nurses and doctors is good value. No, the Daily Express and co would much rather pay a consultant £120k pa to do that in his work load. That's what happens, it's the equivalent of having Ronaldo & Messi serving drinks in the second half of football matches. Utterly bonkers. Get the highest paid people to do the really complex stuff, not the mickey mouse stuff.
- GPs taken out of practices and into management. This was Lansley goal when creating NHS CCGs. The result is a mess. GPs aren't generally interested in management, but Lansley (who's father was a GP), wanted them to dictate how the whole health system would work, so effectively forced some of them into management roles. Net result? Less GPs to see patients, GPs on £100k+ p/a taking jobs of management staff who were paid £40-60k p/a whilst back at their practices they have to get Locums in to cover their work who cost ridiculous money. If people can't get in to see a GP where do they go? A&E of course, and that costs vastly more than 20 minutes with a GP to resolve things!
- Lack of mental health funding. This one is damn silly, the government say they're increasing funding for this, but locally your non-mental health hospitals are struggling to the extent that they're demanding more money from your local CCG, who in turn doesn't have it, so will be pulling the money out of mental health services to keep things afloat. Why's it so silly? Because mental health patients have a far higher rate of admission to hospital than many other groups, so rather than stopping some of the traffic into hospitals at source via mental health assistance things are left to get out of hand. It's pure fire fighting.
- Medicines Management. These are the people who keep track of medicines locally and advise GPs what to prescribe, what not prescribe, what is poor value in terms of it's results, what alternatives that do the same thing costs less etc. These posts are classed as admin though, so they've seen plenty of cuts in the past few years. That's less people to try and help GPs prescribe effectively. In terms of a Paracetamol prescriptions an increase in funding of these teams could easily see the huge amount spent on this drug by the NHS cut.

I could go on and on... ultimately though the major issue with the NHS at present sits with the Tory government 2010-2016, their actions have had a huge impact on it, and that's why it's performance has been on a downward slope since the impact of their changes kicked in from ~2012 onwards. It's hard to know if they genuinely thought they'd make it better, or if the plan was to tie it's hands behind it's back to a point where privatisation then looked like it's only saviour.
Calz01
12 Dec 16 #809
Nice post.Many time i been docs and they have tried too give me a prescription for paracetamol.
i always just tell them i will buy it from shop.hoping one day my pennies saved with help someone with a real medical necessity.
develomancer
12 Dec 16 #808
I just worry that people that get these on the NHS give zero **** anyway. nice reminder though!
MadeInBeats
12 Dec 16 2 #807
I think it's Iron Man and/or Captain America which are wholly funded by the US military... propaganda to get young Americans to blow themselves up in the name of patriotism. Over here we have Royal princes who do highly publicised stints in the forces to get us all romantic about war.

Of course, famously, the diamond barrons used cinema to implant the idea that diamond engagement rings are the only engagement rings worth the sentiment... it worked, and yet the they are still sitting on an abundance of the things artificially inflating the cost of diamonds when they are probably in reality worth less than a cat's eye.
HantsShopper
12 Dec 16 1 #806
Heat added. I've been buying supermarket own brands remedies for years like ibuprofen and cold/flu treatments. I'm exempt from prescription chgs because of health issues over recent years but it wouldn't occur to me to get things on prescription that i can get for pennies when i do my usual weekly shop.
core
12 Dec 16 1 #805
When you have to wait 4-6 weeks in the queue to be seen by GP (of course you have to show the proof you live in the UK to get there in the first place), then 6-8 weeks in the queue for consultant... I can't really see how the "health tourists" could milk the NHS considering the cost of travel and accommodation for that time (unless that's walk-in clinic/A&E cost, when it would be enough to just check patients entitlement (i.e. give them invoices if they're not covered).
Bigger problem seem to be failing austerity policy (for example taking 2/3 money from councils *and* from care for elders *and* acting so surprised when people who could be discharged from hospitals can't be), "health tourists" seem to be only smaller part of the problem.
...of course, one can always fire some older doctors and make young leave the UK then bitch about immigration :>
...and of course, I forgot to mention about privatisation of the NHS Tories are so dedicated to -- no wonder, plenty of them (or their cronies) have businesses that are either milking NHS dry already, or can't wait to do it.
RuudBullit
12 Dec 16 1 #804
​I never offered any comment to suggest any opposite to what you're saying, did I?
As for your figures, they may be right, but if the government knew who was committing benefit fraud then there wouldn't be benefit fraud, is I'm not really sure where the figures come from.
In a town like Rotherham, I'm pretty sure the figures run much higher. And if you were to observe the front door of the job centre for a few hours, you'd see why a portion these people don't work. Their behaviour is disgusting, and it is this anti social lifestyle which alienates people from them. I very rarely go into my town centre as it is such a dive. I don't see how big corporations have caused certain people to behave worse than animals.
flamesong
12 Dec 16 2 #803
I've never seen it. I watch films on Blu-Ray, DVD and other means. I wouldn't regard cinema as television but it has its own department of mind control - the film industry is a classic arm of propaganda but of course it was only Nazis like Leni Riefenstahl who would do such a thing and never the UK or USA who only make factual and honest to goodness wholesome aren't we just brilliant movies which would never under any circumstances attempt to distort reality heaven forbid. God bless America.
isherdholi
12 Dec 16 2 #802
How ironic that buying medicine from large supermarkets which don't pay their fair share of taxes, is somehow "helping" the NHS

It would be far more helpful to us the public, if all these thieving companies paid their taxes so that the required investment can be put into the NHS.

Aside from that, we need politicians willing to use our tax revenue to increase spending on public services such as the NHS, rather than crap we don't need, like trident.

Anyway, still a good deal, so I will add heat.

Peace.
exup
11 Dec 16 2 #801
​This is an unfortunate paradox. It infuriates me that people waste GP's time with coughs and colds when there's F... all the GP can do to help them. My dad lives in Wales and since they brought in universal free prescriptions, the GPs are overwhelmed with people wanting cheap over the counter medicines for free.
Unfortunately, they walk among us.
Sumpte
11 Dec 16 3 #800
We won't have an NHS anymore if people keep voting in a party hellbent on destroying it. The amount of misinformed idiots in this thread is horrifying.


You're right - benefit fraud is running rampant at about 3%. The horror!

Meanwhile, 'hard working tax paying good folk' don't seem to care about rampant tax fraud by corporations and still happily support them. Almost as if they don't actually care about fraud and it's effect on public finances, they just don't like poor people.
Ellendel
11 Dec 16 #799
Except that, as anyone who read through any of the earlier pages of this thread would already know, the NHS don't pay extortionate prices for mild painkillers. They pay the same, or less, than everyone else.
traviscrouch
11 Dec 16 #798
​I'm pretty sure he wants those who don't pay for prescriptions to just buy their own for 19p rather than the NHS paying their extortionate prices and prescribing them for free.
RuudBullit
11 Dec 16 #797
Believe it or not, you can watch television, and still make up your own mind. I'm watching 'The Goonies' right now with my son. No indoctrination, propaganda, dogmatism, or anything else for that matter. Just good clean fun!

Television, like all media, can only have as much influence on you as you allow.
Hare_Krishna
11 Dec 16 #796
You say, "Daily Mail website doesn't count".
One must have good discriminatory power to judge a thing on its merit. If Daily Mail or for that matter -any- newspaper or the Internet has exposed -tangible- substance, why deny it? Unless you are actually biased. You got no case. Judge a thing on its merit. What's the difficulty. Please read - Thank-you very much:

"The drugs companies said they were looking into the claims allegedly made by their representatives, while it was reported that one firm had suspended a member of staff.
A spokeswoman for Pharmarama International Limited, based in Borehamwood, Hertfordshire, said it would not comment while an internal investigation was being conducted.
Quantum Pharmaceutical said it was investigating the allegations and had suspended a member of staff.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2345639/Drug-firms-chemists-colluding-overcharge-NHS-millions-pounds-unregulated-drugs.html#ixzz4SYyv3jXL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
too
11 Dec 16 1 #795
Precisely, in fact just sit down and relax - it's being taken care of as we speak - 25.5 months remaining.
flamesong
11 Dec 16 2 #794
No, I know that I am not entirely correct, I accept that there are people who screw the system but the people who have their opinions spoon fed to them by media organisations with vested interests are more ready to believe that the relatively small number who do so are a greater economic drain than the tax dodging patrons of the media organisations and their corporate buddies. It's easy for lazy people to pour scorn on somebody they can look down upon - especially when the mind controlling device in the corner of their room is pumping ready-mapped neural pathways into their blancmange like brains so they don't have to think for themselves. Mindless mob mentality guided and distracted by corporate crooks; that's why I don't watch television.
RuudBullit
11 Dec 16 1 #793
You're not entirely correct. People abuse the benefits system, and this does annoy hard working tax paying good folk. There are people claiming for disabilities that they don't have, for instance, which has led to the government trying to clamp down, but sadly, more often than not the wrong people get targeted, and those genuinely in need suffer. And there are people who claim to be single parents, who actually have a working partner living with them. There are many other ways to fiddle the system. And it does happen. And yes, to some people, unemployment is a lifestyle choice. I didn't read this in the Mail, or The Sun. I live in Rotherham, and have seen it with my own eyes on a daily basis.
a_scotsman
11 Dec 16 #792
In the North West of England, their NHS was paying 948 pounds PER ROLL of paper towels. The same paper towels that you got in school in 1985.

When I heard that, I decided the NHS has to go, preferably before all the boomers leave the youth with trillions more debt.
RuudBullit
11 Dec 16 #791
It's not quite as straightforward as this. The NHS needs restructuring, from top to bottom. I work in an estates department at a large hospital, and the amount of abuse of equipment that goes on is staggering. We replace literally thousands of pounds worth of equipment per day that has just been abused or used incorrectly. The managers have to take ultimate responsibility for this, but there is a culture within the NHS that money is no object, and that is throughout the entire organisation. Until people are held accountable from top to bottom, the NHS will continue to suffer.
DELOS
11 Dec 16 #790
Not what I said, everyone has bad luck but I still say that no one should get more for not working than for working else no one would ever work
flamesong
11 Dec 16 1 #789
I'm a bit confused about the sentiment of the OP.

Surely, if the cost of paracetamol is 19p and the cost of a prescription is £8.40, the saving here is to the consumer not the NHS. It could be argued that in the case of paracetamol and aspirin, getting it on prescription could be a net benefit to the NHS.
flamesong
11 Dec 16 4 #788
I love this oft trotted out hate flame.

I don't watch television so I can hardly be regarded as a TV sympathiser but to attack people for owning a FLAT SCREEN television is the most idiotic nonsense. You are basically attacking them for having a television because the last time I saw a CRT TV for sale was at a car boot sale about five years ago.

And being somebody who does not watch television, I know what an outcast that makes me; I am forever asked, 'how do you live without watching television?. So, the inference is that people who are alienated by their unemployment should be further alienated by their disconnection from social norms. I know from having worked in care that access to a television is regarded as a human right (a religious community was sanctioned by the CQC for not allowing residents with learning difficulties to watch the World Cup and it was deemed that their human rights were being violated).

But generally, you have really swallowed the establishment media narrative that it is all the fault of the poor and that people on benefits are somehow raking it in because The Sun managed to locate one or two people who are exceptions; people on JSA generally get £75 per week plus Housing Benefit which is usually a good deal short of rent. Being unemployed is not, despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe, a lifestyle choice.
M_z
11 Dec 16 #787
So, in your world, nobody ever has bad luck and needs a helping hand then?
MadeInBeats
11 Dec 16 2 #786
And why doesn't the workforce who give the best years of their lives to some ungrateful corporation for the privilege of being debt enslaved for 21 days holiday (if you're lucky) a year, ask for more instead of just bending over and taking it, being fed soap operas and talent shows on TV every night watching them like zombies?

You should watch Michael Moore Where to Invade Next before you react to my comment with your back up. If someone pointed out I was being exploited like a mug, and doped up with mindless TV to keep me sedated, I'd be a bit peed off too.
DELOS
11 Dec 16 #785
Why should anyone get more for sitting in the house than someone working at minimum wage, this is why some people do not want a job
qwerta369
11 Dec 16 #784
So is M.E.
andy1989
11 Dec 16 2 #783
Just so you know its costs the NHS £10.49 each free prescription of paracetamol. Buy them yourselves!!!!
tightwadsulike650
11 Dec 16 #782
Fibromyalgia is a real disease
MadeInBeats
11 Dec 16 3 #781
Wow, the stereotype of a bitter 'working-class hero'... Seriously, if working a 9-5 in an office or a shop and being 'allowed out' for lunch like a dog to do its business is such a nice life... why do you sound so bitter about it? For someone who has been given the privilege to be a debt slave you don't sound very happy about it.

People need to ask more questions of the life they acquiesce in to, lead sleepwalking by the brainwashing from newspapers and trashy TV shows like Britons on Benefits or whatever the hell button-pressing titles they give these low-brow 'programmings'.

To the person who wrote this: you're as much as a victim of your environmental surroundings as the dole scum you see and despise on your lunch. They are not the problem, they are the symptom of a system that is totally, totally, broken.
kizdxb
11 Dec 16 #780
a small box of tissues is £5 in the NHS...
andreasuk
11 Dec 16 #779
Delete the post!
The NHS had been saved!
cimera
11 Dec 16 1 #778
Ever heard of NHS england ? Another corprate company brought in by corrupt nhs leaders getting a backhander fleecing us all
andreasuk
11 Dec 16 1 #777
its not only public payments but free NHS, free accomodation etc....are they all included in that 0.5%?
People are getting away with too much. I didnt make the post you replied to but i definitely "hate" that.
Some poeple deserve the financial help but many dont and thats the message he sent.
Kreskin
11 Dec 16 9 #776
It's OK everyone, stop worrying. I just remembered Boris and his pals saved the NHS back in June:
http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5739f7d7130000f004381b1b.jpeg
ultrak3wl
11 Dec 16 #775
The restriction of max 32 tablets for sale in shops was theoretically a measure designed to discourage suicide attempts. Really though it was a cynical way to improve margins. I remember when you could buy a bottle of 100 paracetamol in Boots for much less than even now the cost of 100 paracetamol in 16-packs.

This is not to say that paracetamol overdose was a zero problem it did exist albeit in statistically small numbers. The more obvious solution though would have been to supply the tablets pre-mixed with the antidote methionine. Thus you could not overdose on them. For a while there was actually a branded version of this called Paradote. Private Eye ran a campaign for safer paracetamol but ultimately the ban just came in anyway.
gazdoubleu
11 Dec 16 2 #774
Gonna have to start a thread about cheap supermarket Gaviscon copies (of which there are many) Reading all these rant posts gave me a headache so I took some 19p Aspirins and now I have acid reflux!!
blugardian
11 Dec 16 #773
Oops hit a nerve, ****!
rjmjnlcfm
11 Dec 16 #772
What clinical background does the op have to advise or deter a visit to a gp or a&e
NotALot
11 Dec 16 #771
umm - i voted hot as surely this is about cheap 19p tablets being as effective as those being bought by NHS for so much more - I've not read the xxx comments before.... waiting to ensure shot down in flames....
Dodge62
11 Dec 16 #770
Well it certainly wasn't any better before Obamacare. The state was spending more per head of population than the UK does (and the overall spend was several times higher) for generally worse outcomes. Some people's premiums were lower (because the insurers could pick and choose who to insure, and what for) but that makes no difference to the points I was making.

Do you know of any countries where the overall spend on healthcare per head is lower than the UK, and outcomes are better? I imagine there must be some, but I'm not sure who they are.
qwerta369
10 Dec 16 2 #769
Yawn.
Ultima2876
10 Dec 16 4 #768
You do realise that unemployment payments (e.g the people you target in your post) account for less than 0.5% of public spending, right? That means that even if we put in the strictest 'get back to work you lazy non-taxpaying slob' bigoted policies, we're going to see a net gain... of almost nothing. You're hating the wrong people bud.
blugardian
10 Dec 16 1 #767
To all the Christians an Muslims in the UK, where is your " God " in all this? When you or your children get ill why don't you run to your local church / mosque and get god or Allah to cure them? Thank god you don't ( Lol, i know ) but It's clear that if you really had absolute faith you and yours would get worse and possibly die. Is that god's plan to save the NHS by removing 15m customers from it's system?
This has gone from a deal on meds to a discussion about the nhs/politics. So keep " God " and religion out of it, a system about knowledge science and innovation should not be sullied by pipe dreams, folklore and fantasy.

( p.s please don't wait for faith to cure you as it's dangerous and may open you up to ridicle )
honeypotpie
10 Dec 16 #766
Next time I get a visit from the question police, I'm going to demand a badge!
honeypotpie
10 Dec 16 #765
You must be having a great Saturday evening!
plodging
10 Dec 16 #764
This is so true
Dusty
10 Dec 16 #763
How mortgages are created is another interesting one. The YouTuber WhiteRabbitTrust is an ex-banker with some interesting things to say..
greavesy1984
10 Dec 16 4 #762
If the world has a debt, who does it owe the money to?

'Money' is just made up on a computer. That's what quantitive easing is - just adding more numbers into the system. Saving the country this and that, is just a load of rubbish. There's nothing to save. Our debt can only ever increase as money is created from debt. learn how the financial system works. YouTube "the biggest scam in the history of mankind".
Kreskin
10 Dec 16 1 #761
Could be worse, imagine if that happened during an election or referendum.
lucyferror
10 Dec 16 #760
I don't know who gets but our GP prescribes it for everything like it's some miracle cure :man:
aibon
10 Dec 16 1 #759
Its one of those deals were people vote hot no so much on the price but by the sentiment expressed. Its kind of like a thumbs up/thumbs down battle for those who care about such virtue signalling.
OptimusPrimeval
10 Dec 16 #758
​wasn't saying that. However for a civilized nation it is unbelievable that anybody should be sleeping rough or going hungry.

The poorest parts of Africa are indeed true poverty however that is a third world country (and no I'm not saying that makes it alright because nobody should live in poverty regardless of where they come from!)
adibaba
10 Dec 16 #757
​Yes, but this is the fault of Lansley's ridiculous HSCA. They promised us no top down reorganisation, then wasted billions of taxpayers pounds on a top down reorganisation that made things worse. It's not a problem inherent in public provision, it's a problem of incompetent management by a dishonest government.

We need to get away from anti-NHS rhetoric and correctly apportion blame for its inadequacies to the politicians that run it.
john10001
10 Dec 16 #756
LOL. "Save the NHS from bankruptcy". It is flooded with money and the sixth biggest "employer" cough bureaucracy in the World that uses government force to make people pay for it, and delivers terrible service in return. Rationed healthcare, waiting lists, needless deaths and a lot of money for it's managers. I'd rather buy a paracetamol from ASDA than be treated on the National Homicide Service. Heat added.
check_your_bank
10 Dec 16 #755
​oh I missed this slur, so this is a great deal?, or a revelation?, or are people just voting to show support for the NHS ?

you are thick, or ignorant o disagree with my simple statements, either way your comment regarding my opinion on this is pretty irrelevant to the original post.

Another one living with their head in the sand no doubt.
Firefly1
10 Dec 16 1 #754
Aside from the London weighting, they are indeed similar.
I don't want to pry, but I have never heard of a case where the salary of a doctor is released in a compensation claim. We pay for medical defence insurance so, if sued, our insurance (or more often, the NHS trust) pays out if a valid claim, never the doctor themselves. Nor do I believe the NHS would ever release a certain doctor's salary (Confidentiality to the employee).

It sounds like you might have had a problem for a private procedure? Whom are indeed a select group of *usually* consultants whom part time work for the NHS and part time work privately. But I should emphasise the overwhelming majority don't do private procedures and therefore don't make anything like the few 'daily mail' headline rates.

These are the official figures for doctors before consultant level: https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/pay/juniors-pay-england
Helgrr
10 Dec 16 #753
Just to point out that I know many elderly disabled people who get paracetamol on prescrition who have to take the full dose of 8 tablets a day, they simply cannot get to the shops every four days to keep buying the damn things so when they lift the ridiculous rule that you can only puchase two packets at a time then I'm sure many of them would be happy to pay.
GAVINLEWISHUKD
10 Dec 16 #752
Our doctors must be doing fine. You can't get an appointment for love nor money. So you either get better or end up in A&E before you can get an appointment. 17 day lead time for a 5 day window! People queue outside before they even open like they are queuing for an iPhone!

I'm now from the group of the only time I'm likely to use the NHS is if I'm hit by a bus and taken to A&E without my knowledge.

When it gets to the time the internet can't help it will be time to call the undertaker's. :disappointed:
andy95
10 Dec 16 2 #751
Did you bother to read any of the 749 comments before yours? Or do you actually think you've solved the NHS crisis in one swift move?

Sorry for being grumpy :/
honeypotpie
10 Dec 16 #750
Why doesn't the NHS buy generic brands where possible??
vl4781
10 Dec 16 3 #749
I totally agree with people buying their own paracetamol and ibuprofen I do that myself and just buy the cheapest one as they work just the same as the branded ones

However, working as a doctor in the community I am surprised by the number of people who wanted it prescribed. The cost of dispensing these very cheap medications is so high. People are offended if I even so much as to suggest they were to buy it themselves. I have parents coming in for appointments to get a free paracetamol prescription for their child with a snotty nose. There is the cost of the consultation, cost of the product and the cost of dispensing. People just seems to be oblivious of the cost of anything in the NHS and seems too selfish and self-righteous to in their thinking telling me "well I pay my taxes" and SO DO I!!!!! If everyone can just do a tiny bit to help it will make a big difference.
mergleb
10 Dec 16 #748
If anyone thinks that those living in 'relative poverty' is REAL poverty then compare their houses, their sewers, their endless supply of clean water, their flat screen tvs, their luxuries with those LIVING IN AFRICA!
endo123
10 Dec 16 1 #747
Part of the issue is that people who need and routinely take paracetamol can only buy 16 at a time from supermarkets to stop people commuting suicide. GPs can prescribe 100s at a time so people use the service for convenience. This limitation on purchases needs to be removed, it will do the NHS a favour and it's not like it will stop anyone killing themselves anyway. They could just go to two or three shops if they were determined.
check_your_bank
10 Dec 16 #746
​well yes, it would be an area of their life that has no concerns, so would not try to solve a problem that doesn't exist for them, they would not think about it. If they knew they could save tax payer £8 a throw, would they ? debatable but the best for themselves on a low budget would obviously be to take cheapest option regardless of potential benefits for others.
rickystephens404
10 Dec 16 #745
nice try but im not saving **** all and plus i never get ill
Dusty
10 Dec 16 #744
Why won't they, because they can get painkillers for free?
yrreb88
10 Dec 16 1 #743
The general public have no medical or pharmacological training. In general they would be unable to take them responsibly and thus the risks would outweigh the benefits otherwise antibiotics would likely be OTC here. All drugs and medicines have side effects, including antibiotics, some worse than others. There aren't many addictive painkillers currently OTC, the only one I can think of are low doses of codeine and this has warning labels plastered all over them and are sold at the pharmacist's discretion.

Canada only sells topical antibiotics OTC, think of a savlon-type cream for cuts and minor wounds. All those USA drugs you listed are listed as Rx i.e. prescription only so I'm not sure where you're getting your info from. It's also a silly argument regardless. Some countries allow you to buy guns quiets easily and in some homosexuality is illegal, shall we legalise guns and ban homosexuality too because other countries do it?
koksy
10 Dec 16 #742
so if these are 19p, how is it a waste of money for the nhs if u pay £8.20 for them?
tazzuk
10 Dec 16 #741
What a load of rubbish a prescription costs more and gives money to the NHS
ManMang0
10 Dec 16 #740
Im shocked the amount of people voting hot... I wouldnt pay more than 30p for a pack of painkillers, these prices are common knowledge?

Also who doesnt know that cheap brands and expensive ones are the same ingredients? (watch out for vitamin products tho, a lot of them are half dose, read the RDA's on the back)

Im just flabagasted how blind some people must have been to make it past the age of 16 without knowing these things...
plodging
10 Dec 16 #739
Proof stats? My point is there has never been a sensible study into it without bias from one side or the other ... It's all who you choose to believe .
plodging
10 Dec 16 #738
I was replying to a post about immigrants and using the nhs .. Sorry forgot to link it . And this post has degenerated into an attack on the poor , jobless , rich and everything else long before I posted . But I apologise for taking it off topic .
CFC2011
10 Dec 16 #737
This is true, particularly in the case of the NHS - what's your point?
The_KELRaTH
10 Dec 16 #736
​I was involved in a recent compensation claim for blinding me in 1 eye and severely damaging the other and the senior doctors salaries and head of department were disclosed as well as the real amount of hours. Are salaries similar across the country (besides Ldn waiting allowance)?
aibon
10 Dec 16 #735
Giving people the CHOICE to take medicines responsibly should be a basic human right. Painkillers are potentially far more harmful than antibiotics and are proven to be addictive yet nobody would ever suggest they were made available only by prescription.
Antibiotics are available over the counter in Canada and European countries such as Spain. Even in the heavily FDA regulated USA you can get antibiotics like vantin, Noroxin and Keflex.
ultrak3wl
10 Dec 16 #734
What situation we have now? Some people are just obsessed and will turn any conversation about anything into a rant about immigrants.I have perfectly nice and otherwise normal mates who when I have a conversation with them about football or motorbikes or cleaning gutters within about 2 minutes they have kicked off about immigrants. Now you just did the same with paracetamol.
plodging
10 Dec 16 2 #733
None of this was an issue until the poorer countries entered the EU. For 30 years the countries had basically the same standard of living so migration was mainly for work etc and in limited numbers . Then when the eastern block entered with wages a fifth of uk wages the figures ramped up . can't blame people for wanting better , but at what cost ? . Stagnation of wages for the low skilled , competition for social housing , massive strain on schools , and yes on health also . The politicians expected 10000 a year .. This turned out to be 170000 a year from the Eu. This was media managed into " immigrants are good for the economy and cost the country nothing " then announce any research into this statement is racist , so the truth is hidden , leading to the situation we have now .
check_your_bank
10 Dec 16 #732
basically any benefit-er that can afford 19p , should do this...but they won't

...i doubt they have any concern to do so, its free for them and they can just charge the tax payer £8 instead , no brainer - just like getting a house to lounge in all day for free and having the taxpayer cover the 1000's when its unlikely they have ever paid tax in their life.

It;s sensible financial choice on their part, you cant expect people with nothing to pay money they don't have to - and so the only fix is changing the system,

There are big changes a head though, next GE will be an interesting one - be prepared for the snide trickery or the anti 'brexit' brigade and the like
soapyd
10 Dec 16 #731
​Very true. It will be interesting to see where Europe will stand following brexit. I think we'll introduce an insurance system, similar to what we use on holiday. Ooh and the rest of the world as well just before someone calls me a racist or a fascist or a xenophobe or a nazi or a bigot or a platypus... Basically any word meaning anything, really
OptimusPrimeval
10 Dec 16 1 #730
The way their figures now work makes it look like poverty isn't an issue when it evidently is.
plodging
10 Dec 16 1 #729
Don't we anyway ? It's absurd to run a contribution based health , education and benefits system , then let people access it when they have paid zero in .
soapyd
10 Dec 16 #728
​So we should give free health care to the world? like every other nation doesn't?
plodging
10 Dec 16 1 #727
The fact is everyone is a burden on the nhs .. If nobody used it , it would be awash with money . Immigrants and health tourism do have an effect obviously , but to what extent , who knows , and until they stop referring to any study into this as " racist" we will never know .
plodging
10 Dec 16 1 #725
" hey mum we are on the up , we only live in relative poverty , not abject poverty"
OptimusPrimeval
10 Dec 16 2 #724
​The government moved the goal posts on the definition of poverty and relative poverty to massage their figures.
schnide
10 Dec 16 #723
What a vacuous statement. I asked for evidence. Very often what people think is true, empirically isn't. So actually providing it helps stop people claiming anything they want and then saying "Oh the evidence is out there, people have read it, so therefore it must be true."
Baldieman64
10 Dec 16 1 #722
How much do you suppose the cost of the admin, the doctor's time, the use of the consulting room, the purchase and distribution of the drugs and the time of the pharmacist at the dispensary would amount to if you did it privately?

If surgeries weren't clogged up with slackers who are trying to get medication that costs pennies for "free" or concocting BS stories to try to get their GP to support fraudulent benefit claims, we might have a better, more responsive health service.
plodging
10 Dec 16 1 #721
That's ok then .
Goldwinger
10 Dec 16 #720
There aren't really any restrictions, wander around the shops, pick up a couple of packs in each shop, or simply go through the checkouts in Lidl or Aldi a few times and you can fill your shopping bag with the drug.
tianuk3
10 Dec 16 #719
Yup that too. As a country overall we are doing very very well regarding antibiotic resistance thankfully (much better than the rest of Europe which dishes them out wilynily)
Haha. This is probably the best post of them all.
STOP reading the bloody Sun newspaper.

Do you know what the doctor starting salary was until the new contract? £22,000!
Do you know what the doctor starting salary is now with the new contract? £24,000.
Did you know that doctors work 48 hour weeks (minimum) in full time employment?

Doctors have just been given a new contract; which absolutely stinks. Bare in mind there have been no changes to salaries for the last 8 years or so, so due to inflation the salaries have already sunken drastically.

There are now no enhancements for working weekends therefore drastically reduced wages, removal of important fees/fines that hospitals have to pay if they overwork you; this all means; more doctors are leaving the UK (don't blame them one bit), more shortage of doctors, more gaps in rotas, more unsafe staffing levels -> WORST PATIENT SAFETY
mergleb
10 Dec 16 #718
Relative poverty IS NOT POVERTY!!!!
plodging
10 Dec 16 #717
Look at the profits of the drugs companies .. Scandalous .. Yeah I know R&D , blah blah.. The govt should invest in setting up
A decent pharma industry in this country to create jobs and reduce costs.
jdRiggs
10 Dec 16 #716
​The problem is the NHS is paying too much. If the medication is ridiculously cheap they should also be buying it at the cheap price. The pharmacy should not be able to charge such an uncompetitive rate.
bobmccluckie
10 Dec 16 1 #715
Wrong.
For chronic conditions like arthritis it is regularly prescribed alongside other pain killers such as tramadol.
jakiwaki
10 Dec 16 #714

I think antibiotic resistance may also be down to the injecting of animals in our food chain to maximise profits
Firefly1
10 Dec 16 1 #713
Did you add an extra 0 into your doctor salary fugues by mistake or intentional? My starting junior doctor salary will be circa £28,000 and my consultant salary will be £75,000-£85,000. That's full time employment.
plodging
10 Dec 16 #712
A race to the bottom . Because the nhs pays its admin staff a living wage and joe bloggs ltd pays his the minimum , we should adopt the sports direct zero hours contract model for all our government funded jobs .?.
plodging
10 Dec 16 #711
75% of children living in poverty in this country come from homes with at least one parent working .
The_KELRaTH
10 Dec 16 #710
I wonder how much effect it would have if the NHS rebalanced Doctors salaries and made them work a full week rather than part time. £250,000 - £500,000 per annum and then off to earn even more in their private practices which in some cases are run from NHS hospitals.

Its a serious failing in our country that if your paid from the public purse theres no wage fairness and obscene salaries - Im a judge so worth more than highly skilled and need 18% pay increases, Im middle management in a council so should be paid far higher then a similar role in the private sector, Im a doctor so should only work part time so I can run my private practice. You may as well call senior bank staff public paid as for sone reason its public money that bails them all out while they take obscene amounts for themselves.
I dont think anything will change but the NHS and other public sectors will always be strapped for cash as the more you feed it thr more it wants due to self importance.
g1bbuk
10 Dec 16 #709
I haven't read all this thread but has anyone told the NHS? They're the ones who should be saving money by buying from asda...

Also has anyone mentioned that asthma sufferers can save a fortune by buying ventolin in Spain? Everytime I go on holiday I stock up as they're only E2.60 & you don't need a prescription. Just let your doctor know you've got them.
mranderson1971
10 Dec 16 1 #708
People lash out at others when their own lives are awful. This person is just jealous and hates their job. So they take out their frustrations on the unemployed or minorities groups. It's why all forms of prejudice exist.
adibaba
10 Dec 16 #707
​Quite right. The other day I diagnosed a patient with a relatively innocuous-sounding sore throat with a haematological malignancy. On the other hand, I see about 5 people a day with a blocked ear after a cold, which is entirely normal and requires no medical treatment.

Antibiotics aren't indicated for any of these people. Google is incredible and I must confess that we do use it, but it's no substitute for med school. If you have a cough or cold, try the pharmacist first, then see your GP if symptoms persist.
adibaba
10 Dec 16 1 #706
​Excellent post. C-sections are brutal indeed; ripping your first abdomen apart with your hands is something of a rite of passage for a JD/medical student. I wouldn't recommend it unless absolutely necessary, we are designed for reproduction after all. If you need one, however, don't fear; we do everything we can to make it as comfortable as possible. You won't see or feel much at all.
harl3yqu1nn71
10 Dec 16 #705
​HA HA you can't see past getting your free drugs, every time someone visits their GP to save themselves, for example, £1.50 on cold and flu medicine (if you get free prescriptions) the gp gets £30 for your visit and the NHS pay your prescription cost (it looks like they don't have to pay for it but the books have to be balanced), it costs the gp time that could be used helping someone who actually needs help.

You're also prescribed a recognised a brand that every pharmacy is likely to stock to ensure your prescription can be filled immediately. So instead of your prescription costing the NHS £1.50 it costs £4.50 for your medicine.

So to sum it up, you get a free £4.50 flu medicine (which could cost you personally £1.50), the NHS pays £38.50 for the doc and prescription, multiply that by let's say 10 times your GP does that per day, multiply that by 30,000+ surgeries in the UK = a crap load of money.

If you went and bought your own simple meds such as ibuprofen, cold and flu capsules then you save the NHS £38.50 and if everyone did that then the NHS saves 'a crap load of money' that they can use to get your operation or cancer treatment or what ever treatment, that you may come to rely upon, quicker in the future saving your penny pinching **** so that you can come to HDUK well into your 90's and save your skinny **** money when your pension amounts to little more than a tin of beans :smile:
yrreb88
10 Dec 16 2 #704
Sorry but this is simply wrong. Dental abscesses require diagnosis by dentist to determine any necessary treatment such as extraction and antibiotics aren't even routinely prescribed. If you have or think you have an abscess you need to go see a GP or dentist, not self-diagnose and self-medicate with antibiotics. For example you may not need the antibiotics because either it's not an abscess or it might go away by itself after a couple of days or the antibiotics may not be suitable or strong enough for the abscess anyway.

When you pay the £8 for a prescription charge you are not paying for the drugs themselves, it is irrelevant if they are cheaper than £8 or not. Antibiotics are very important drugs that should be regulated, there is no significant benefit in making them available without prescription and certainly not if you just want to save a few quid.
cb-uk
10 Dec 16 #703
And they get free Buckie and deep fried Mars bars. What's not to like?
richgirl1
10 Dec 16 #702
Prescription charges in Scotland are free.
dezontk
10 Dec 16 1 #701
https://i.imgflip.com/1fosj7.jpg
ttttd
10 Dec 16 2 #700
If it is on the internet, you can link it here... Daily Mail website doesn't count.
Hare_Krishna
10 Dec 16 #699
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is question of *improving the system* with -checks and balances- not throwing out the system. There is no throwing out the baby with bath-water. The *need* is to to make the system accountable. Just like we have had a number of greedy MPs who exploited the system for *many* years with expenses scandal. They were exposed. Did we shut down the Parliament? Some had to go and some paid-back the money. We are not saying vulnerable should not be protected. On the contrary, the NHS is *for* the vulnerable. But we can not allow exploitation to go on unchallenged. Otherwise, NHS is finished. Regards Points 2, 4 & 5 are there for those that have got the sound presence of the intelligence to observe what is happening - it is on the internet.
Dusty
10 Dec 16 3 #698
The art of sweeping generalizations isn't dead here... People who work can still be poor.
deany76
10 Dec 16 3 #697
No more for you tonight.
mergleb
10 Dec 16 1 #696
WE'VE TOLD THE WORLD THE TRUTH ABOUT SKEKSIS ROCK DEMON BRIAN MAY'S ANCIENT UNCHAINED EVIL.

WE'VE BLOWN THE LID OFF OF HIS FOLLICULAR FABLES.

WE'VE REVEALED HOW MAY DESTROYED FREDDIE IN AN OCCULT BLOOD SACRIFICE DURING A DESPERATE BID TO TAKE HIS PLACE IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE PUBLIC.

WE'VE EXPOSED HIS SHAMELESS MOCKERY, EXPLOITATION, AND HUMILIATION OF COWS AND FLIGHTLESS BIRDS.

NOW, IN A MIND-BLOWING NEW SERIES, WE THINK YOU SHOULD WILL DELVE INTO THE SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT FREDDIE MERCURY AND HIS TRAUMA-INDUCED MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES, OR 'ALTERS' - AND HOW LECHEROUS LIAR BRIAN MAY CONTINUALLY REINFORCED HIS PROGRAMMING - ALL WHILE USING MERCURY AS A TOOL TO FURTHER MAY'S DISGUSTING MASTER PLAN. BE FOREWARNED, MUCH OF THIS WILL BE SERIOUSLY DISTURBING TO MANY OF FREDDIE'S LOVING AND DEVOTED FANS. BELIEVE YOUR EXPERT OPINION ADVISERS WHEN WE SAY THAT EVEN WTYS WAS SHOCKED TO OUR FOUNDATIONS BY WHAT WE UNCOVERED WHILE RESEARCHING THESE DARK THEMES...STILL, THESE TRUTHS MUST BE REVEALED IN ORDER TO FREE FREDDIE'S SOUL FROM BRIAN MAY'S OPPRESSIVE, MURDEROUS LIES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH EXPLICITLY LAID-OUT DEACONIST PROPHECIES. IN THIS SERIES WE WILL COVER:

-FREDDIE'S TRAUMATIC CHILDHOOD RAPE AT BOARDING SCHOOL
-FREDDIE'S KNOWN ALTERS: FAROKKH BULSARA, FREDDIE MERCURY, LARRY LUREX, MOTHER MERCURY, MELINA MERCURY, WHITE QUEEN
-FREDDIE'S TRANSFORMATION FROM 70s TRENDSETTER TO 80s "GAY CLONE"
-THE TRUE MEANING BEHIND MERCURY'S MAGNUM OPUS "BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY"
funkybunch82
10 Dec 16 #695
I'm all for this good find op
dz1
10 Dec 16 #694
Those are good things.
edward2910
10 Dec 16 1 #693
Thanks for a clear and logical approach to your post Tianuk. You are a voice of sanity and reason and I admire the way you dismantle the 'facts' provided by John London.
plodging
10 Dec 16 #692
Easier not to think about it mate .,just keep paying your taxes to keep them , Nothings going to change .
aibon
10 Dec 16 #691
I know people shouldnt take them for colds but there are plenty of infections that necessitate penicillin for treatment that does not require a doctor to diagnose forching you to pay 8 quid for prescription that would otherwise costs pennnies. Tooth abscesses for one.
edward2910
10 Dec 16 1 #690
The NHS spends less per capita on public healthcare than Canada, Germany, USA, Switzerland and in the UK it is available to everyone. The USA in particular spends more public money on healthcare per capita than in the UK, but of course not everyone has access to the service.
mergleb
9 Dec 16 #689
The poor demonise themselves with their fecklessness and their sponging off the state.
5hp
9 Dec 16 #688
wonder how much NHS pays for it? they must be using corrupted contracts their heads and politicians make, all brits btw.
plodging
9 Dec 16 5 #687
If the Tories could get away with food stamps they would . Demonising the poor , sick and jobless , with the help of the media , has been the aim since they got in . Worse times ahead I fear .
HereKittyKitty
9 Dec 16 2 #686
It's maddening to think, he's getting angry at unemployed people for the NHS failing (for some reason??), when it's the Tories, who were voted-in by angry idiots like him (because they promised to punish the unemployed) who are deliberately and systematically de-funding services so they can eventually sell the whole thing off cheap to their millionaire donors. The future of the human race never looked so bleak.
plodging
9 Dec 16 2 #685
Bread and milk vouchers eh? Well I am gluten and lactose intolerant , can I have fags and booze vouchers instead .
hotukdeal92
9 Dec 16 #684
​I see.. well whoever is giving a jobless person 14k credit is a dumbass!
Dusty
9 Dec 16 2 #683
Too true! Everyone's entitled to an opinion but it does make him sound like a cretin. How can you go from the NHS is in the **** to having a pop at the unemployed? Did they somehow cause the problem?

Like I tell my kids, question everything and don't follow the crowd!
HereKittyKitty
9 Dec 16 6 #682
The best way to save the NHS is to stop voting Tory

http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/links-between-mps-lords-and-private-healthcare/

There's a reason they're so rich
deany76
9 Dec 16 2 #681
Why does @John London avoid the question and tell us WHERE his "In My Country" is?
Also if its so flippin' good in his wont tell us "My Country" why doesn't he go back to his "My Country" if its that wonderful.
Ps
I voted remain and both my parents devoted their lives to the NHS, dad a Consultant pediatric anaesthetist and mum a teacher at Alder Hey Childrens Hospital Liverpool.
HereKittyKitty
9 Dec 16 1 #680
Scary how many people liked this post. This is the kind of mentality that caused Brexit and Trump
Magurdrac
9 Dec 16 2 #679
"Our own"

Cringe, cringe, cringe.
carolinej81
9 Dec 16 1 #678
I think this is a brilliantly thought out response to this troll.
OptimusPrimeval
9 Dec 16 1 #677
​Brilliantly said.

Really top notch post.

Unfortunately there are people who read the tabloid crap and take it as gospel.
stealth666
9 Dec 16 #676
Probably £19.99 to the NHS.... with a few back handers to make it easier to swallow :wink:
zorbathegeek
9 Dec 16 #675
Is this site turning into facebook now?

Keep your ill informed opinions on public services to yourself.
plodging
9 Dec 16 1 #674
on the same theme .. My mate got made redundant after 30 years in a well paid job , paying substantial tax and NI (even his redundancy was taxed) .. And cos his wife works , he can't claim a penny after his initial 6 months contribution based benefit stopped . So after 30 years of paying in he gets zilch, and pays full prescriptions etc . And at mid 50s is struggling to find anything . At least he is spared bread and milk vouchers eh.
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 1 #673
This country has become racist, immigrantist and so incredibly stupid and gullible! People always want to put blame on benefit claimants and immigration and not people running country and companies bleeding us dry. People will bitch and moan when we start having to pay for healthcare upfront and people will bitch when rights are taken away you bloody voted for it!
Unexpectedunemployed1
9 Dec 16 3 #672
Furiousjammin I've worked all my life up till last year when I was taken ill your attitude stinks about the unemployed I had the same attitude as you before I was unemployed but untill you been in that position you can't imagine how hard it is to get a job especially at my age I must have been to numerous intervews done courses to help me applyed for jobs rediculous amounts of times...but at the end of the day I've paid my taxes n my nat insurance I'm only getting back what I paid into for years n yes I bloody well will spend it how I like ok so plp remember one day you could be unemployed yourself...so dont knock plp that are on the dole thru no fault of there own you don't know what they been thru....n I'm not ranting I say it how it is n thru experience...
blugardian
9 Dec 16 1 #671
This outdated view that all the budget goes in managers coffers is early Cameron 2006 rhetoric. He slated labour for introducing private tenders for treatment yet in gov.t he took his/Osborne's Bullingdon club fantasy of reducing the size of the state including the NHS to the point where total privatization would become a necessity. As long as the poor keep dying young and the middle/upper classes and elites live on then conservative values will remain strong.
If the tory MP's including May were forced to take the truth drug sodium pentathol their dreams and views on the insignificant poor would terrify you, whereas insignificant Jeremy Corbyn would whimper ' where's my humanoid breathless barrel Diane Abbott '
carolinej81
9 Dec 16 1 #670
Thanks, that's very kind. Yeah ED or Emergency Department it's the phrase the kids are using these days lol
spencerslide
9 Dec 16 #669
Indeed, however, if you work in the NHS you can see the duplication between CCG's and CSU's is a bit of a joke. I used to work in the medical devices and our brands were overlooked by a CCG because the competitor offered 2 different types of colours, same device, same safety profile, same efficacy, same functionality same MHRA validation.

It cost one CCG an additional 1.8 million pound.....because the other provider had one more colour.

Madness.
deany76
9 Dec 16 2 #668
Hi Caroline
I know you dont earn money (well I assumed you didn't like me) but 4k degrees is Kudos and I think you are likely to enjoy more success, just saying.
thanks for the posting.
ps
is EDs A and E?
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 2 #667
TBH I have no problem with immigrants and don't listen to majority of the media on this issue like lot of this country does and I don't criticise them because I know it's not so black and white and it's benefical. The reason I said "why don't you go back home then" is because of you criticising how crap ours is but saying how amazing it is back home.

Believe me I know we have some issues. I'm struggling with illness for last few years that struggling to get under control and no one will prescribe me meds that I think can potentially make a big difference. One because of cost and it's a heated subject if works or not ( though studies and patient experience clearly shows it works for some people) Some of the doctors are also awfully incompetent and have no manors but changing it to private won't fix those issues.
tianuk3
9 Dec 16 5 #666
and what country is this John London?


Again; I'm intrigued to find out the location of this utopia.


LOL this is just ridiculous. This definitely DID NOT happen; you see in the NHS they do actually attend and treat to people based on their clinical need; if the radiologist or whoever didn't authorise the scan it would be because there weren't sufficient indications for it, not because they couldn't afford it. Again; if you could enlighten us all on the issue itself, so far you have just written a lot of ambiguous stuff.


Again; more ambiguity; what was wrong with the baby?. it wasn't an emergency so why the need to see the Paediatrician right away?
Do you know how many worried parents visit the GP about their children?
Why waste precious paediatrician time when a GP can sort out the problem?


More lies and utter rubbish. IN THIS COUNTRY doctors ARE present during births for COMPLICATED patients and when they are NEEDED! Do you know how many births occur every hour in THIS COUNTRY? How feasible and efficient would it be to have a doctor with every woman giving birth?
Also if the baby is macrosomic or past dates (a very large baby!) and the health of the mother is put at risk through normal **** delivery then of course she will be given a C-section. Stop making stuff up.

Have you ever seen a C-section? do you even understand the risks involved?

I know this happens in Cuba; and it currently happens in the UK for a lot of different groups of patients who suffer from chronic conditions; it would be nice; but would also cost a lot more money for the taxpayer.


How is it Stalinist? You've just been talking about the wonders of "state health insurance"; how very Stalinist of you.


You honestly believe an extra 2% GDP is a similar figure for healthcare spending? (Germany compared to the UK for example), you also realise Germans pay far more each for their healthcare per year? Give me facts that all those countries have vastly superior healthcare systems.

Mr. John London; you obviously have a very large chip on your shoulder; and it does sound like YOUR country seems to be some sort of utopia according to yours truly.
Baldieman64
9 Dec 16 1 #665
Nope. It's the patients who will go to see a doctor to get a "free" prescription for drugs that would cost them pennies. The administration, the doctors time, the use of the buildings and facilities, managing the supply chain and the use of a pharmacist all cost money - increasing the real cost of the drugs by several orders of magnitude.
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 #664
This has absolutely nothing to do with money or profit (for once)

You are only allowed to buy limited quantities in one transaction for a reason - the risk of an overdose. Take over 50 paracetamol tablets in one go and most people will either end up with permanent organ damage and/or die.

For example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-387953/Student-17-sold-lethal-paracetamol-dose-Tesco.html
adibaba
9 Dec 16 7 #663
Everyone's an armchair expert on health economics. As a doctor, I can tell you that the service has been cut to the bone by a government that refuses to fund it properly. They've rebranded underfunding as overspending to make you think the NHS is wasteful. Our public health spend per capita is about three quarters of that in Germany and France... and they don't even cover their whole population.

All the stuff about health tourism and excessive waste is utter nonsense. Most money is spent on elderly patients and those with chronic conditions, and we've been shown to have the most efficient health service in the world.

Don't believe the rubbish you read in the tabloids and please, for god's sake, don't regurgitate it parrot-fashion. People will just think you're thick.
tianuk3
9 Dec 16 #662
If you could do that we would be completely f**ked; you've heard about antibiotic resistance before right? Immunologically compromised people are already dying needlessly because Mr. or Mrs. Bloggs insist on getting antibiotics for their cold which has lasted 2 days.
jonkers1
9 Dec 16 1 #661
Unfortunately a full dose of paracetamol is 8 tablets a day each pack lasts two days. You are only allowed to buy limited packs!!
It's the corrupt drug companies that need sorting!!
There are people and families where every penny counts.!! Just saying
fatreg
9 Dec 16 1 #660
Another tip for drugs, is check the PL number, ALL manufacturers have to by law, have it on the packaging, same PL across 2 products means exactly the same product, don't by nurofen and the like, supermarket own are often exactly the same at a snip of the cost.
ttttd
9 Dec 16 1 #659
The government **** it up unfortunately by bloating it with beaurocracy and underfunding it in an effort to break it down. None of those problems you list existed more than 6 years ago. I agree with you the system is now inefficient when it comes to elective services but it's not the fault of the NHS itself but the government. The people strangely, appear to not care because they keep voting in the clowns who are responsible.

I've had similar problems - the staff are all as qualified and competent as you'd expect but many specialist services have been cut to the bone in the name of "efficiency".
ttttd
9 Dec 16 #658
If you care that much you should donate to charity. That's a very hypothetical situation, no-one actually pays £8.20 for a pack of paracetamol unless they need a ton of it on the regular without anyone grilling them on why they need so much.
johnlondon2000
9 Dec 16 #657
Thanks for the 'go back to your country' comment, it's always enjoyable to receive those. I guess they are consistent with the times we live in unfortunately.

Actually I also thought before, like you, that the UK was spending a lot less on its healthcare than other European countries. This used to be true but not anymore following the huge costs bloating of the NHS which took place in recent years. According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK spends 9.4% of its GDP on healthcare, compared to 9.1% in Finland, 9.6% in Sweden, 10.8% in Belgium and 11.3% in Germany - all of which have vastly superior healthcare systems to the UK.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2225rank.html#uk

Other people mentioned on this thread some of the excellent experiences they have had with the NHS. I have had occasionally some good experiences too, mostly due to having been fortunate enough to be treated by some high quality staff from time to time, albeit far from on a consistent basis. In general my view is not that the staff is unqualified, but more than the overall system is inefficient and does not provide an acceptable level of service for a developed country, particularly for non life threatening health issues. Most people living in the UK are used to this level of mediocrity and think it is 'normal'. If in one of the other European countries I mentioned, they decided to replace their current health system with the NHS overnight, people wouldn't put up with it, there would be riots.
cockring
9 Dec 16 #656
I bet you live in sunderland.
jymufc
9 Dec 16 #655
how did these deal get so hot paracetemol has always been cheaper at asda :confused:
ttttd
9 Dec 16 #654
Why did it work so well under Blair (god bless his warmongering soul) then? Life expectancy hasn't gone up that much over the last 6 years...
rasdonny
9 Dec 16 3 #653
The Tories got you all exactly where they want -ie arguing & fighting each other, whilst they and the royals and greedy rentiers continue to live cushy lives.
carolinej81
9 Dec 16 2 #652
That might be good if I earned money from the post. I was just trying to draw people's attention to the cost of these generic drugs and try to ward off inappropriate attendances at ED's and GP's
karene28
9 Dec 16 2 #651
I voted cold in error.. apologies... stupid bottle of wine and fat fingers on tiny iPhone screen... ohh... takeaways here... nom nom nom......
Youngsyr
9 Dec 16 #650
If the current pensioners have paid more in than they're taking out, where have all their payments in over their 50 years of work gone?
gooner786
9 Dec 16 #649
​No prescriber will give paracetamol tablets on prescription for a paying patient.
gooner786
9 Dec 16 #648
16p is too much for some people... Don't forget those who are exempt from prescription charges qualify for "care at the chemist" or the minor ailment scheme. That needs to be promoted more imo.
deany76
9 Dec 16 2 #647
ps
OP I recommend you doing the lottery tomorrow - approaching 4000 degrees for tablets that have been 19p for ages, your luck may well continue.
deany76
9 Dec 16 #646
Wow 6.6% for pharmacist, I know they sell other products hopefully with higher margins but I now know why the owners look so pi#sed off.
beastlyhax
9 Dec 16 1 #645
The issue is that single payer healthcare never works.
JoeBaker85
9 Dec 16 1 #644
They do collect them back, they have an empty dustbin in most hospitals thats labeled for purpose to place them in - to then be recycled and checked they are safe to be sterilised and re used and have new grips placed on the bottom (safety issues with used crutches). The crutches also have a number on them via a sticker to call and they will collect them from you at your home if you can't be bothered to take them back. They rely on honest people who appreciate being loaned them to bring them back when not needed, or arrange for them to be collected. It's the ones that don't give a toss leave them in their homes and ultimately cost the NHS further wastage.
jimbobaggins
9 Dec 16 #643
Yes, but that is an average of all drugs - not just paracetamol. They definitely aren't paying £5.60 for a pack of paracetamol that costs 19p everywhere else.

As someone mentioned above a cancer drug might cost £1,000 a week. In the same way that Paracetamol isn't costing £5.60 a pack - the cancer drug isn't £5.60 a pack either, yet both cost just £8.20 if they are prescribed.

If I personally wanted to contribute £8.01 to the people who need the money to help fund their cancer treatment - isn't that a good thing, rather than bad?
jinsta
9 Dec 16 2 #642
You would have to be quite dim to pay £8.20 for something that's available from the same counter for over £7 less, but would go back towards the pot roughly broken down as...

http://www.monpharmacien.ca/wp-content/themes/aqpp/images/structure-en.jpg
JoeBaker85
9 Dec 16 #641
See my other comment above
JoeBaker85
9 Dec 16 1 #640
The point is the ones who work and don't get free prescriptions wouldn't pay the charge for a paracetamol prescription. The point being made here is that the unemployed and benefit scroungers will be given a prescription for these type of items for free and it's the NHS that foots the bill costing it money. Especially when they are contractually obliged to get their medicines from a certain company and have to pay well over the odds for them themselves. However this is only the tip of the iceberg on an NHS being bled dry. The ones who contribute the most to the organisation end up suffering due to the inconsiderate nature of others. Services really are not what they should be and there needs to be serious reforms to stop this merry go round
jimbobaggins
9 Dec 16 #639
Surely, if you pay £8.20 for prescription Paracetamol, the extra £8.01 goes into the NHS, increasing the amount of money they have to treat other people?

Buying a 19p pack from a supermarket will save YOU money, but have no effect on the NHS at all, other than reducing the amount of money they have available to treat other ailments.

Isn't that fairly obvious?
xlxaiwa55xlx
9 Dec 16 #638
​Theyve been this cheap for a long time.
OptimusPrimeval
9 Dec 16 1 #637
​They don't lose elections, they have them rigged.

People seem to forget that the Tories are under criminal investigation for irregularities in their 2015 election campaign, if they weren't trying to cover it up. They wouldn't have their slim 'majority' (used in the loosest term may I add) then.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indy100.com/article/where-tory-election-fraud-claims-are-being-investigated-in-one-map--bylZ35tQIXb%3famp

Voting Conservative and voting Ukip amounts to 2 sides of the same coin.

It's just like turkeys voting for Christmas.
MadBob
9 Dec 16 #636
stop going to the hospital for aspirin, who tf would do that anyway?
schnide
9 Dec 16 1 #635
I almost fell for this!

But then realised you're trolling because you couldn't be vile or ignorant enough to think that there's no such thing as poverty in this country, not least because you're assured everyone who needs help is smoking.
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #634
Just read your post, got a flamedeer!
ac10372
9 Dec 16 1 #633
Yes finally someone with common sense. Great post, heat added :sunglasses:
SuperMariosDad
9 Dec 16 2 #632
I read through all of this and didn't even get a flamedeer :confused:
Haggle
9 Dec 16 #631
I completely agree with you. I think PrEP is crazy; taking medication that there's no clinical need for, is entirely unjustified, and unnecessary. In my opinion, PrEP will damage the health and immune system, of those taking it.
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 #630
Your statement is entirely false. You do not know me.

Also, I do not have a horse, BUT you are indeed lectured on how to think - though not by me. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/sep/01/the-establishment-how-get-away-with-it-review-owen-jones
. . . . and we are not actually having the false discussion you are alluding to.
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 1 #629
S you paint everyone with same brush?
GadgetHunter
9 Dec 16 1 #628
Not sure how this really saves the NHS.

From what I have been able to find out the biggest cause of stress for the NHS has been the increasing number of elderly patients. Elderly people require NHS support far more often that younger people and that usage pattern rises significantly as they reach very old age. Additionally, the older someone is the longer it usually takes for them to recover and the more likely it is that they will have complicating conditions such as dementia. So NHS demand rises significantly as the population ages.

Since 1963 the number of people making it to 80 has doubled, the number making it to 90 has gone up by a factor of 5 and the number of people making it to 100 has gone up by a factor of 20.

There isn't an easy answer to this problem.

There was one semi-humorous article in the Economist entitled "Smoke for your Country" - based on research that proved that smokers had a lower lifetime cost for the NHS than non-smokers - they even had lower costs when averaged over their generally shorter lives. This was because smokers had a much higher risk of getting cancer and dying in their 50s and 60s. A few months of intensive cancer treatment is far cheaper to the NHS than years of on-going support in later life. People who complain that smokers cost the NHS £X billion per year and should have their treatment limited should at least be aware that those choosing not to smoke are the ones who will cost the NHS more.

BTW - I am not encouraging smoking. :-)

There was another post about the cost of foreign aid. It appears that the UK budget for foreign aid is around £12bn per year. That is equivalent to about 8% of the NHS budget or 1.5% of total UK government expenditure.
adi0604
9 Dec 16 #627
Agree also NHS is too soft to even hard negotiate with Pharma cos. more so busy looking after their dividends.
firstofficer
9 Dec 16 #626
So I don't have to pay innit..
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 #625
Dusty
9 Dec 16 1 #624
Well said. Pretty sure Lynton Crosby was the architect of that particular brand of divide and rule. The perfect daily mail wet dream!
sweetjudy21
9 Dec 16 1 #623
to be honest you are better paying for private health care than using the NHS

I got in with Bupa in less than 2 weeks where as the NHS had a 6 month waiting list
hcc27
9 Dec 16 1 #622
Thanks for your kind words. We've been trying very hard to save a deposit on a property but with rents as they are it's really hard. I and my wife have just applied for Help to Buy and we hope it'll come through or the b******s next door will move. The last straw was my little 'un starting to swear recently (told his mum to **** off) and we know for a fact that he'd not have heard that from us. The lot next door are always in the garden and have an extensive swear vocabulary. The kids appear to be all under 10 so you really do feel for them.
People like tryn2help have never been in our situation so they get on their high horse and lecture us on how to think about the less fortunate. I'm sure there're millions of genuine benefit claimants who don't work because they cannot for health reasons, however there're also thousands like my neighbours who play the system nicely and get away with it, all the while turning their noses up at those who pay into the system and make their profligate lifestyles possible..
mergleb
9 Dec 16 #621
There is no such thing as real poverty in this country.

Food bank use is often unwarranted - they can give up the fags first.

No working people should have taxpayers money spent on them to top up their wages.

People should have to fend for themself more.
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 1 #620
This flies in the face of the facts; We've got over a million people in this country forced to use foodbanks, we have over 4 million people ALL working but living below the poverty line - they're on zero hours or low wages, but they're ALL working and still in poverty. The majority of them are in that working but poverty stricken situation because they were forced into it by being persistently sanctioned and harassed daily by DWP staff under severe instructions from the government, but your neighbours have somehow escaped this and are driving around in their fairly new merc?

If your neighbours actually exist they are very much in a tiny and ever-decreasing minority somewhere in the region of 0.00001 of the population.
They are at the opposite end of a society which sees people doing the exact same as they do, but on a million times more massive scale, and they usually get a knighthood for it.

Read and learn who's really screwing you over; http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/establishment-how-get-away-with-kindle-edition-0-99-amazon-2570679
jimbo001
9 Dec 16 1 #619
Think we should throw more money at it tbh
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 1 #618
Again, this isn't how it works.

For most drugs (i.e. generic ones), the NHS will either put out tenders or buy the cheapest/best value in the marketplace. In addition, many NHS hospitals now have their own pharmacy manufacturing units where they self-produce many of the common drugs they use - selling any surplus to other hospitals.

With regard to proprietary meds for hospital use (which is where most of the drugs budget is spent), the NHS typically engages in fixed price contract purchasing i.e. it negotiates with pharma companies to buy a certain amount of product at an agreed price which cannot be increased during the contract.

The only time the NHS has a problem is when it needs a particular drug which is only available from one supplier (usually under a patent) and an alternative drug isn't readily available. In this instance, the supplier has a relative monopoly and can dictate the price it charges the NHS (as is the case in my post #605 above)
cylonraider
9 Dec 16 #617
have you ever thought, that the more money you help to save the NHS, by buying cheap pills means more money they have to line their pockets or more money to pay locums or crappy projects that dont work out..!! :stuck_out_tongue: or
deany76
9 Dec 16 1 #616
Hi
Thanks for sharing.
Some of us dont realise how lucky we are. I try and never forget like being born in the UK etc
No one should endure what you have shared in your post.
I hope things inprove ASAP.
Cheers
Jessyca88
9 Dec 16 #615
If you ask for the non-Lloyds brand, it is the same price as Sainsbury's. (More expensive than shop pack obviously, because of bigger pack in pharmacy. In fact it is cheaper to get paracetamol capsules from the Lloyds in sainsburys than from equivalent from sainsburys shop floor.)
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 #614
Possibly, but I was thinking more or less along the lines of the mechanism involved in 'winning' an NHS suppliers contract' and how prices shoot up when they've got that contract.
feelthevibe
9 Dec 16 #613
As others have said I don't think this is much of the deal but appreciate the sentiment of the poster. The numbers of people exploiting this is very low and the NHS will buy all these drugs for tiny amounts although appreciate there are other costs to consider and anyone needing these drugs should really buy them themselves. They'd also save GPs a lot of time.

As already pointed out, if anyone buying these drugs under prescription is subsidising more expensive drugs.
Dj CUE
9 Dec 16 1 #612
The NHS is great value if you look at it from an individual users point of view, even a high earner would struggle to fund a serious illness care and drugs out of the national insurance they pay. The issue is some people don't like paying for the NHS when they are not ill.
I am pretty sure that if a private healthcare provider could run the NHS with its current budget then the government would let them. I think this will happen eventually but for a vastly larger budget.
check_your_bank
9 Dec 16 #611
i'm more concerned about the homeless, there is enough money going abroad to completely change aspects of our country, im confident of that without having to go into any validation of figures.

I'd agree there is more to fixing the NHS than pouring money into it, but scrutiny and change regarding masses of money leaving our shores will have a bigger financial impact than people buying their paracetamol rather than letting the nhs foot the bill, it was to juxtaposition the potential impact of this posts endevour to 'save the nhs' - and people saving the nhs money this way(if it even does) are hardly providing any other sort of benefit for the organisation either.

there is a serious amount of complexity to matters like this, I have neither the knowledge or will to try & discuss the entirety of them, especially right here.
hcc27
9 Dec 16 1 #610
Yeah, my oppressors are my non-working neighbours with 4 kids who live rent free (well, paid by yours truly) and throw fag butts out their front window and soiled nappies out the rear windows into their own garden. Unfortunately. the only property I could afford was next to them. See, I pay my rent out of my own pocket. At least I have the pleasure of admiring their 12-Reg Merc ML as I drive past theirs on my way to work 6 days a week.
On the plus side, there's apparently another bun in her oven and the Council will hopefully be forced to give them a larger property soon, as it would be against their Human Rights to put all the kids together in one room.
Out of interest, do you live in North London?
deany76
9 Dec 16 #609
I dont think the NHS are being Heterophobic they just want to target the highest risk group for maximum effect I guess.
Interesting points you raise though.
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 1 #608
I see your point, but I don't think this thread has been about cheap ASDA own medicine for the last 14 pages.

I can't figure out if his was by design by the Original Poster, or just a natural tangent that has spawned from a deal being posted.
yrreb88
9 Dec 16 1 #607
Many herbal medicines have been looked at, tested, extracted and purified the compounds that work and made into medicine. We then improved the original compounds by adding side chains. Medicine is the advanced and modern form of herbalism. If the NHS found I don't know turmeric, homeopathic remedies, St. John's wort etc cured meningitis or appendicitis or whatever ails you, that's what would be being prescribed.

All medicines, whether herbal/natural or man made/synthetic, have the potential for side effects. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's safe/better and if something is artificial/synthetic it's bad/toxic etc. Vaccines are pretty artificial but very safe and effective. The NHS isn't part of a conspiracy.
Polly_P
9 Dec 16 1 #606
They need to do a crutches etc 'amnesty'. They never collect them back after use. Lots of crutches, toilet frames etc in charity shops when finished with from people.
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 2 #605
Surprised everyone is whining about 50p packets of Paracetamol, while the NHS will be paying £360 per month per person (or £4,320 each year) so that gay men who engage in "high risk" sex (i.e. typically without condoms) can be protected against HIV by taking an antiviral drug called PrEP.

10,000 people will be involved in a 3 year trial - potentially costing the NHS around 4320 x 3 x 10000 = £129,600,000 - although the "official" press releases claim the cost will be £10 - £20 million.

Without going off on any pro or anti gay tangents, this raises 2 really important questions:

1. Why should this trial be exclusively for gay men? There are many heterosexual / bisexual men and women who also engage in "high risk" unprotected sex. Why aren't they going to be offered access to PrEP as part of this trial? Surely this is totally discriminatory on grounds of gender or sexuality?

2. Is it fair for the NHS to be asked to fund preventative medication to the tune of £4,320 per person per year? Condoms, contraceptive pills and flu / travel vaccinations are relatively inexpensive. The argument for funding PrEP is that it's apparently cheaper paying £4,320 per person per year for prevention - instead of paying £350,000 (which is the lifetime cost of treating someone with HIV).

However, you could also use the same logic that the NHS should pay for everyone's gym memberships and fruit & veg - as this would reduce the burden on the NHS in the future. Or the NHS should provide addicts with free drugs, as this would cost the NHS & society less in the long term.

Kinda makes 50p for a packet of paracetamol seem quite minor.

Full article link: https://www.ft.com/content/8b1baa5c-b8b1-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

http://i.imgur.com/ZlsBCir.png
The_KELRaTH
9 Dec 16 1 #604
I'm going all out with savings for the NHS by not going - every time I end up in a Surrey hospital I end up even worse off lol
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 6 #603
Utter crap, these are the voices of the manipulated millions of struggling hard working people who are being taught by their oppressors that someone other than their oppressors is responsible for their lives being such a horrendous struggle.

P.S. It's called 'divide and rule' - and this thread is a perfect example of how effective it is.
Agent-006
9 Dec 16 #602
i dont use Paracetamol, but if i needed it and could get it for free than I would like anything else!
mcfly666
9 Dec 16 2 #601
If people can't see the humour in that I feel sorry for them. Laughter is the best medicine.
Mighty__Mag
9 Dec 16 #600
You can not buy more than two paracetamol based items over the counter at one time its the law. Paracetamol brands like galpharm or supermarket own have always been extremely cheap. Using ibuprofen is bad for you as is most nsaid products. Although they may relieve pain at the time further complications of stripping the lining of you stomach will only end you back in hospital and giving the nhs more problems, when you end up needing Gastro clinic. For most it makes sense to look to herbal medicine and remedies. Our bodies were not designed for synthetic drugs. But big phama and the nhs have always known this.
Curlyman83
9 Dec 16 #599
I think properly means that if you're ill, you receive treatment. I don't believe you can attach arbitrary monetary figure to it.
schnide
9 Dec 16 #598
Actually, do you have a source for this? To prove it's genuine?

I'm just looking at the Statistics on International Development 2015 report from the Department for International Development, and it says that:

"..in 2014 the top three recipients of UK bilateral ODA were Ethiopia (£322 million), India (£279 million) and Pakistan (£266 million)."

So if that's one year, it seems a little hard to believe that the other four years (and that's a maximum, because we're assuming your table includes spending in 2016 which it probably doesn't) figures could be:

"Ethiopia (£3532.4 million), India (£3221.1 million) and Pakistan (£3508.6 million)."

..as you've posted? Maybe you have indeed posted real figures - but there's no source, and it seems hard to think that those over four years (probably less) could've brought the total up to ten times the amount of 2014 spending.
hcc27
9 Dec 16 1 #597
Well said my friend, well said. These are the sentiments of the silent millions who work had to pay into the system day in and day out but sadly whose voices will never be heard.
bilbob
9 Dec 16 2 #596
Yes, I'm an immigrant, who sells stolen goods for profit which I spend on running my BMW to get to the dole office where I limp in and sign on and claim my disability allowance, then off to the docs to claim my free paracetamol whilst sending some of my benefit to my lesbian cousin in Poland to raise her 14 kids she has with her immigrant partner who is recovering from breast enhancement surgery she received for free in a Middlesex hospital, she attended by NHS chartered helicopter, and whilst recovering in the UK after the surgery she stayed in a park lane hotel in London with a chauffeur service to run her to her check ups.


Stop believing everything you read.

You'll be a happier person.
mcfly666
9 Dec 16 1 #595
I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 1 #594
No, the real question is; is the NHS value for money?

Are they being ripped off by suppliers - including equipment suppliers, drug suppliers, etc?

And would privatising it stop the rip-offs or increase the rip-offs?
Curlyman83
9 Dec 16 #593
Agreed that there will always be more wonderful treatments to be offered...the point I was making is that there wouldn't be a "crisis" of delivering current services, if the NHS had more resources.
Rudess
9 Dec 16 1 #592
Enough to look at the results of EU Ref, no need to go to HUKD to figure it out.
Rudess
9 Dec 16 1 #591
I'm not against privatising, but not at any cost.
There will definitely won't be enough money after we leave the EU as we expected to have deficit of a further £60bn, thanks to the Leavers.
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 #590
If you hate NHS so much why no go back to your own country? Also what country are you from because most EU countries actually pay lot more for healthcare than here.
OptimusPrimeval
9 Dec 16 1 #589
So many Neanderthals in this thread!

Wow! I can't believe that this is what "Great Britain" has come to!
Dougal1709
9 Dec 16 2 #588
I bet you're fun at parties
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 1 #587
Privatising it will make costs go up not down.
qwerta369
9 Dec 16 #586
May I ask which country this is? I'd quite like to move there!
OptimusPrimeval
9 Dec 16 #585
Think you'll find that it wasn't everybody who voted for austerity...
schnide
9 Dec 16 #584
Firstly, "not enough money" is not the primary problem in the NHS - it's where and how that money is being spent. Do you think that if we stopped spending on foreign aid, we could just buy more doctors? We already have to rely heavily on medical staff from abroad (which Brexit may substantially threaten) because we don't have enough of our own.

Are you also proposing that we shouldn't spend money on anything else until "our NHS is fixed"? There can be no spending on anything else until then? Do you not understand how foreign aid is important and is an investment for us too? We don't just it to countries out of the kindness of our hearts.

And the reason I made it clear that it was many years' worth of money is because when you add up something over time, it looks worse than if it's just on a yearly timeframe. Bigger numbers can make people angrier - which is exactly what it's used to do - and anger is a good motivator to get people to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do.

Like buy newspapers, blame immigrants for things, vote to leave institutions which make their lives better and elect businessmen to power who are going to drive their wages even lower into the dirt.
Cantona007
9 Dec 16 #583
Yes lets punish jobseekers and add more misery to already misreable life. Despite what the press have you believe (obviously can't think for yourself) most people are not smoking fags and spending money on big screen tvs. A very few minority of people are but as usual being blown as a majority. Most people want to work and can't even ****ing afford fags or tvs on money they get on JSA. Most people are trying their damn hardest.

You are a real piece of work!
squiby
9 Dec 16 #582
so very expensive musical chairs then
mergleb
9 Dec 16 #581
It needs privatising.

I cannot continue to exist in its current form.

There will never be enough money. Ever.
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 #580
I read somewhere that medical experts have always said these drinks are entirely unnecessary, and that the only thing in them proven to help is the paracetamol, thus two paracetamol pills equals the exact same effect at a fraction of the price (Think 'Which' magazine also ran an article on this point).
prince7x
9 Dec 16 #579
Already paying National insurance and too much tax, y should I pay privately while those thieves get EVERYTHING for free? Hopefully you are not one of them..
Rudess
9 Dec 16 #578
Plus the Tory government who wants to privatise it
tryn2help
9 Dec 16 #577
Not the first time I've heard such things.

Foreign friends have often expressed disappointment with their experiences of our health service.

Discussing an ailment with a Kurdish chap running his own business here, he surprised me when he said he went to Belgium to get his operation. This well-traveled man poured scorn on our NHS saying it was one of the worst systems he'd experienced.

Their views surprise me because they contradict my own experience of the NHS, whom I am thankful for saving my life.
If it wasn't for the NHS I most probably wouldn't be here; the treatment I got when I had a heart attack and again when I had a stroke undoubtedly saved my life.
deany76
9 Dec 16 1 #576
Far better than BBCs 'Question Time'
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 2 #575
I hope everyone sees the humour in this. Sadly I don't think everyone will.
mcfly666
9 Dec 16 2 #574
I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.
niconelove
9 Dec 16 #573
I already have to pay over a hundred quid a year for my medication, so why wouldnt I get my asprin included in that
ShortyRees
9 Dec 16 1 #572
​Well, if you dislike the NHS so much why not return to "your country" for superior health care?
jinsta
9 Dec 16 2 #571
http://i.imgur.com/DrDHpWN.gif
benn_wood
9 Dec 16 #570
The Tesco cold & flu tablets are excellent
Haggle
9 Dec 16 1 #569
The "max strength" cold and flu tablets are a bit of a rip off. Most have 1000 mg of paracetamol, with just some caffeine, and a decongestant added. I get a similar effect taking 2 paracetamol, some strong coffee, and a cheap antihistamine.
P.S This is a good deal, I have my stock in already.
ShortyRees
9 Dec 16 #568
Why should anyone put up with pain if they don't have to? Clearly you haven't experienced enough pain in your life. "Some cases" :laughing: "Don't take medication for colds" hilarious.
johnlondon2000
9 Dec 16 3 #567
Well, I find it amazing that this 'deal' is getting 3,500 degrees+. I voted cold for this deal. I am a foreigner living in this country for 20 years, and compared to what I was used to in my home country, my view is that the NHS is a complete piece of crap (made up, in parts, of well meaning and competent staff) and should be dismantled. In my home country in continental Europe, the health care spending as a percentage of GDP is about the same as in the UK. Yet for the same cost, the level of service we get in my home country is a million miles better than the NHS (think the difference between a Rolls Royce and a Lada).

A few examples from personal experience:

- when my wife had to go to ER recently for a very serious issue, due to NHS budgetary issues, she wasn't offered a scan even though it was a potentially life threatening emergency. We had to go private the next day to do the scan. There is no way this would have happened in my home country, and we wouldn't have had to wait four hours to be told this.

- in my country, when a baby is sick, you get to see a pediatrician straight away, i.e. same day, without GP referral. Here last time my baby daughter was sick, we went to GP, then waited several days, then were told that we had a pediatrician appointment in 5 weeks. We ended up having to go private as we wouldn't take the chance with the health of our daughter.

- in my country, when a woman gives birth, a doctor is present during the birth, and if a woman thinks that the best thing to do for her is to have a caesarean, she can have one paid for by the state healthcare system. In this country, no doctor shows up during the pre birth period or during the birth itself unless something goes seriously wrong (at which point it may be too late), and unless you pay £15K or so to go private, forget about a c section in most cases, even with valid medical reasons such as having a very large baby.

- in my country, you get annual health checkups paid for by your state health insurance. Under the NHS you only get to see a doctor when you're already sick. Talk about preventive medicine!

Truly, I hope the Stalinist state-controlled NHS goes bust and gets replaced by a properly functioning, efficient healthcare system along the lines of what most of the rest of Europe has had for years. I don't think this will ever happen in my lifetime sadly.
macamask
9 Dec 16 #566
What a stupid self righteous and self indulgent OP... I know it's meant with good intentions, but get real, you obviously no nothing about NHS prescribing, and the only thing that will truly save the NHS, is money, which the Tories are cutting as of when they can.
check_your_bank
9 Dec 16 #565
I'm not confusing anything , and who said it was for a year

A lot of money going out of our country that could be used to 'save the nhs from bankrupcy' and also deal with the countries homeless crisis, its disgusting.
fireman1
9 Dec 16 #564
3 and a half thousand degrees for paracetamol that has been this price for years. What the actual f&%k is going on here!
This site deserves to be destroyed now.
I bet the op is laughing his t#ts off. (medication for which available on prescription)
Rickardo
9 Dec 16 #563
Some contradiction there - you exclaim about fighting for our own country and give two examples of fighting in someone elses!
schnide
9 Dec 16 #562
Do not confuse "poor spending on foreign aid" with "all spending on foreign aid is bad."

Foreign aid, even when it isn't tied to benefits to us (which it often is) is an investment in global security. Many of these countries would slip into civil war and be taken over by despots which would cost us far more than this, which is only a fraction of total government spending. Plus those figures are aggregated from 2011, rather than what we spend in a year.

As I've said before in this thread: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We'd never spend government money on anything and be all the lesser for it.
Dan__
9 Dec 16 1 #561
I always buy supermarkets own cheap versions of paracetomol as they are just the same. Perfectly fine. Even been confirmed by doctors on tv before too.

Dont be a mug by paying extra for the expensive branded ones. Get the cheap ones
schnide
9 Dec 16 #560
I am pretty sure that the reason this "deal" is getting so much heat is because people feel like they're voting to "save the NHS," which is obviously (and rightly, imho) a subject which people are very passionate about it.

However the right way to do this is to treat the political process with the respect it deserves - and that means scrutinising your local candidates who run for MP, actually voting, holding them to account when they're elected and then respecting them when they do what it is a hard job right. If you don't follow those steps from the very start, the process doesn't work, and then we'll wonder why we end up with governments who don't seem to care what happens to us and let us scapegoat other people (immigrants, the EU etc.).

"In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve."
- Joseph de Maistre
jinsta
9 Dec 16 #559
Really...this is hardly a deal is it? for those who pay, its common sense to buy things at pharmacy cost if avble under the £8 prescription line fee

Why someone gets prescription for free/abuses the system/NHS is stretched.....has no place here and just encourages keyboard warriors....Admin ought to be ashamed:disappointed:
check_your_bank
9 Dec 16 #558
What are you talking about its only a bit of spare change !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEE2a7wWoAAGade.jpg
feiufhe97f8
9 Dec 16 #557
Is anyone actually getting paracetamol, ibuprofen, or aspirin on prescription?
jawas
9 Dec 16 #556
beats joining the back of an A&E queue with people with graised knees and runny noses wasting everyones time for 4 hours at a time. hot!
HenryVIIII
9 Dec 16 #555
I work in pharmacy and can tell you nearly every other prescription has paracetamol on.It is probably in the top 20 most prescribed items in England.It's one of the easiest and safest way's for GP's to get patients out of the door & onto the next patient.
chas76
9 Dec 16 #554
I pre pay for my prescriptions around £100 a year. Following a stroke in my 30's I am on medication for life including an aspirin a day, and although it would be more convenient to collect it with my other meds I buy it separately from Home Bargains or somewhere similar for around 50p for a months supply
mrsbargains
9 Dec 16 #553
good post op. You need to be looking out for the PL product license number. Many of the supermarket own brand medications are exactly the same as the branded ones,. If the PL number is the same, it's the same formulation.
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 #552
The NHS cost IS NOT £8.20 for a 0.19p box of paracetamol. This is total NONSENSE.

I'll repost my earlier post, as you seem to have missed it.

Let's start off with some solid facts. According to the British National Formulary (aka BNF) which provides prices for virtually all NHS medication, the NHS current cost for 16 generic paracetamol tablets is £0.48 and £0.78 for 30 tablets.

It's fair to say supermarket prices may be a little cheaper, but they are often selling commonly used meds as loss leaders to get people into their stores. However, the NHS is most definitely NOT "paying 30 times the actual price".

Here's the BNF costing for Paracetamol:

http://i.imgur.com/iLwdqbC.jpg

HTH :wink:
Rahv
9 Dec 16 #551
In agreement, OP. Thanks for posting!
cantue
9 Dec 16 #550
Totally applaud the OP's aim and message. I just bought paracetamol from Aldi for 19p! Ibuprofen is similarly priced. But sadly even if everyone bought their own painkillers, it won't in any way save the NHS from bankruptcy and that's ignoring the fact all in Scotland, Wales and NI get free prescriptions.

NHS budget 2015/16- £114 billion http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
£80 million spent on paracetamol. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33055847 Assume it's £240m with ibuprofen and aspirin.
Percentage saving of the annual budget would be an infinitesimal 0.002%.

A massively bigger issue is the epidemic in obesity, alcohol consumption levels, inactivity and related disease from these risk factors, combined with population growth and longer life span.
teeboy1
9 Dec 16 #549
I had open heart surgery and after you have finished on the industrial strength pain killers it is common to use paracetamol to manage the pain. I took 200 over a month or so - we did start out by collecting them from different shops, but after a week or so the doctor told us to stop being stupid and just gave us loads :-) As you are often collecting other drugs from the pharmacy it is just simpler.

I imagine this is true for many operations.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #548
Someone mentioned earlier about those coming here purely for medical treatment they're not entitled to - a true story to help explain why it might be more widespread than people think.
I knew a female teacher when I was working abroad, and she told me she wanted to live in Britain, and also that she had a serious medical problem she couldn't discuss with me.
I explained that a pre-existing condition might prevent her from getting treatment here, as that was being discussed back then, around fifteen years ago - not to worry she replied, she had been diagnosed by a private doctor so it wouldn't be on her official records, (private medical checks being fairly cheap in some countries).
She ended up marrying a British doctor she met online, he flew to a different city from her home, never meeting her friends or family until after the wedding - he didn't have much free time and she of course wanted to prevent him from discovering about her health.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, if anyone out there knows Yordanka (Danny/ Dani for short), married to a doctor who comes from a family of doctors or other medical people, probably still teaching, and with at least one child who would now be at least twelve years..........her inlaws would perhaps be surprised to know that the love she married for, was not love for their son, but love of the free medical help his passport provided.
I know her original surname and other details to verify the story which it would be unfair to reveal on here, but it has made me wonder for all these years just how many others are living here in similar circumstances i.e. they only 'discover' their medical problem a while after arriving and settling here and becoming entitled to free treatment ?
ukaskew
9 Dec 16 #547
Not on prescription as such but when I've had stays in hospital for things like complications with kidney stones I've been given big boxes of Ibuprofen (and much stronger painkillers) by the doctors when I've been discharged.
Hunkzilla
9 Dec 16 #546
Why is it that the 'government' is so idiotic in things like this? This seems insane that its public knowledge but yet, still going on?
Is the Head of Pharmaceutical Supply for the NHS also the CEO of the pharmaceutical companies supplying?
If a box 12 paracetamol costs 0.19p to your average Joe, but yet the same box an extortionate amount more to the NHS? How's this justified?

On the rare occasion I have to have meds prescribed, I ask if there is a generic product I can purchase myself! £8.20 for a 0.19p box of paracetamol!
No wonder cannabis is still illegal, someone has all our pants down!
rasdonny
9 Dec 16 #545
indeed lol

this post = Brexit anomaly :smile:
dpmcm21
9 Dec 16 1 #544
Don't forget Aldi and Lidl have generic Paracetamol.
wackojacko99
9 Dec 16 1 #543
Appreciate the sentiment but assuming most of the votes/comments purely to catch these piggin' flamedeers!
mcfly666
9 Dec 16 1 #542
I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard.
barbiegirl
9 Dec 16 1 #541
Perhaps if we stopped being something like the third largest donor of overseas aid in the world and spent the money on our own, the situation would be better. Instead, it's funding shopping malls in Nairobi (£15m), Daraz (Pakistani version of Amazon) £32m, Online Gaming platform in Singapore....
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/consultants-take-billions-from-foreign-aid-budget-hw7b6bk3f
rasdonny
9 Dec 16 1 #540
i assure you - one day you will surely fit into one of the very same categories you mention ie losers, minorities, freaks and foreigners.
furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #539
Its not just the drugs themselves. You need to add on the cost per prescription of the chemist handing out the prescription & other charges along the way.
furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 2 #538
Agree 100% with you. I choose not to smoke. You choose to smoke. But in regards to tobacco tax, can you imagine the tax shortfall should the country quit smoking tomorrow...
furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #537
But what % of those claiming pensions spent their whole lives paying IN to the system?

I would imagine the pension payout minus the pension paid in by those who are claiming it is a lot less than the unemployment benefits payout minus the TAX/NI contributions paid in by those claiming that.

So yes, the pension amount may be xxx higher, but those people spent years paying in whereas the enemployed sector pay in nothing
CouldntThinkOfAUsername
9 Dec 16 #536
If I'm paying taxes, I should have the right to smoke, not exercise and get free treatment, tobacco tax is extortionate aswell.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 1 #535
My side has won everything important over the last 18 months - so yes I guess I am one of the winners.[/quote

There it is! You think you have won but in actual fact we all lose and the 1% win! The art of deception. In was done in plain sight and yet you can't see how it was done!
Denbi
9 Dec 16 1 #534
This is the most bizarre hot rated post I've seen :confused: I understand the point about generic medicines and considered it common knowledge. (Until seeing the heat on this deal for usual price items. )Still can't work out how the Saving the NHS money part is related ?
hbjatuk
9 Dec 16 1 #533
I think people who are are exempt from paying fees usually try to take advantage of it. I'm exempt because of my epilepsy but I always buy my painkillers from Wilkos etc. What about the money from from Boris and Nigel's bus too? Nobbers! Excellent post and should be shared over more than just hotukdeals because I don't care what some people say the NHS is brilliant and the flack the workers get is atrocious!
aeykeay
9 Dec 16 #532
Locums are selfish people and believe it or not many of them build up their experience working under nhs until a day comes when they realise that they can now dictate their own terms/hours etc and get paid between 8-10 times more for their services (Quote me on this) I have worked across many NHS trusts and have seen their records/spend. The patterns across all these trusts have been the same sometimes the trusts overspend knowing fully well that its an opportunity for the future. They can revisit this area and just produce some savings by offloading for a few months and later rehire due to demand. As for the full time staff HR and finance department hardly care about them as they know too well that staff who have been with them on a long term basis wouldn't dare to think about moving especially the ones who have seen the days when nhs jobs were seen as jobs for life now these are the ones who are paid peanuts. Agencies/Locums/Contractors are the ones who are sucking more money out of NHS than necessary.

I don't know if you realise Locums have various expertise levels, some can be junior doctors, some can be consultant level with 15-20+ yrs of experience. Just to break it to you in a more simple term if a trust has a clinician who is paid £20 hourly rate the same clinician when filling up the same post as a locum charges £160 -200 per hour, knowing fully well that NHS would pay them in order to meet the demand/need.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 1 #531
The NHS is the most cost effective health service in the word.
mergleb
9 Dec 16 #530
My side has won everything important over the last 18 months - so yes I guess I am one of the winners.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 1 #529
Oh dear. I guess your a real winner then??? . Ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately for you and many others like you we all lose and the 1% win
Tylluan
9 Dec 16 1 #528
If you really want to help, comment/reject/refuse the threads posted on HotDeals which encourage people to get common items from their GP, including nit combs and headlice treatments.

It's obscene the prescription system is used for ibuprofen. I've only become aware of this gravy train in the last few years; it would never, ever have occurred to me to a) seek such things at a doctor or even b) go to a doctor with something so minor the cure was aspirin. They've thankfully clamped down on doling out gluten-free cake to people, now they can crack down on this.
aeykeay
9 Dec 16 #527
Locums are selfish people and believe it or not many of them build up their experience working under nhs until a day comes when they realise that they can now dictate their own terms/hours etc and get paid between 8-10 times more for their services (Quote me on this) I have worked across many NHS trusts and have seen their records/spend. The patterns across all these trusts have been the same sometimes the trusts overspend knowing fully well that its an opportunity for the future. They can revisit this area and just produce some savings by offloading for a few months and later rehire due to demand. As for the full time staff HR and finance department hardly care about them as they know too well that staff who have been with them on a long term basis wouldn't dare to think about moving especially the ones who have seen the days when nhs jobs were seen as jobs for life now these are the ones who are paid peanuts. Agencies/Locums/Contractors are the ones who are sucking more money out of NHS than necessary.
peeej1978
9 Dec 16 #526
​where exactly are you getting these from?
Paddy_o_furniture
9 Dec 16 2 #525
I love the NHS. But it should be more like a (free) house insurance policy. You look after your house, maintain it, lock the doors etc the insurance company will look after you.

If you choose to binge eat, smoke, do drugs, do little or no exercise or drink excessive amounts of booze; when it finally goes ***s up for you, you should be liable for any costs incurred.

If however you look after yourself, drink within the guidelines, don't smoke or do drugs. The NHS should be there to help you.

This thread is just barmy 3000+ heat for absolute common sense. This sort of nonsense belongs on mumsnet.
novak100
9 Dec 16 2 #524
Nothing to be worry about:
- after the brexit NHS will be getting £350 million a week :smile::smile::stuck_out_tongue::smile:
Itsabargain69
9 Dec 16 #523
cold...it's free in the dole :smile:
mergleb
9 Dec 16 2 #522
You'd rather be associated with a failure than a success. Figures...

Corbyn and everything he stands for is for losers, minorities, freaks and foreigners.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #521
Whilst that may have been the case a few years ago, I rather suspect from some of the screen names and statements in various threads, that things have changed....... almost as if it had been orchestrated somehow. There's another little conspiracy theory for someone to investigate. The number of truly free speech forums is getting less as time goes on, as evidenced by the amount of debate on here, mostly due to the lack of truly free speech elsewhere online I feel.
DarrylJohn
9 Dec 16 #520
Save the NHS, stop going in with the slightest thing wrong.
jakiwaki
9 Dec 16 #519
yes we should because they are doing a fantastic job of running the country aren't they
peeej1978
9 Dec 16 #518
​simply not true.
jakiwaki
9 Dec 16 #517
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #516
Utter rubbish - when 'the right wing' lose an election or come second in a vote, do they take to the streets and wave placards to demand another vote ? It's mostly the lefties who cannot abide losing a democratic vote you'll find.
The same with the states - if Trump had lost, would his supporters have rioted ?
When anyone with a vaguely right wing view gives their opinion, the classic response is to call them a racist or Nazi, to try and demonise them - the 'racists' and other 'xenophobic' people you'd love to deport are usually British citizens whose ancestors lived here a thousand years ago, and fought for their country.
Can you imagine the charge of the light brigade with no riders, or the mission at Rorke's Drift empty when the Zulu warriors arrived, because Brits had decided to run away and claim asylum or seek refuge somewhere ?
Why this once-great nation gives shelter to male cowards who cannot be bothered to fight for their own country is beyond me.
Cameron92
9 Dec 16 #515
Same difference.
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 #514
Err, didn't you realise that most HUKD members are traditionally UKIP voters?


:wink:
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #513
Brilliant picture!!!
Cameron92
9 Dec 16 #512
I guarantee that the majority posting in here vote Tory and yet complain that the NHS is 'at its knees' as a result of Tory budget cuts and creeping privatisation of services.
jakiwaki
9 Dec 16 1 #511
you took the words right out of my mouth to paraphrase meatloaf ,
the problem with the NHS it is trying to help many people who have no means or intention of ever getting a job in order to pay back into the system ,
and is also paying the drug companys (cartels) over the top for drugs medicines in the name of development when the same generic items are available cheaper elsewhere
rant over
anewman
9 Dec 16 1 #510
http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/1984-instruction-manual.jpg
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #509
Rational argument? Statements are easy to make without credible facts and data.
slannmage
9 Dec 16 #508
The sooner the NHS goes, the better... the private system is better, you get better care and as long as the government enforces competition and not what the US has, then prices come down. Yes it means you only get heath care if you have a job or excused because you're unable to work, but I prefer that as I don't want to pay for drunks, obese people and the lazy jobless.

When you're a child your parents pay, when you're retired you've earnt the right for free healthcare under your pension and when you're ill you have the right too, as you need to get better to go back to work.

The NHS only protects bums.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #507
Crap, sorry, forgot.

if we voted to remain, the NHS would be a perfect institution. Leaving the EU is going to cause us to lose all our cheap labour and cause costs to sore.

Sorted.
Gonz
9 Dec 16 2 #506
Brexit is a smokescreen to what's really going on in this country.
cb-uk
9 Dec 16 1 #505
I'm surprised no one has blamed this on Brexit yet.........

:wink:
kjcoolcat
9 Dec 16 #504
If you think Labour being in power is going to solve the countries issue, then you really need to give your head a wobble.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #503
Personally, I feel I am paid rather well for the work I undertake!
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #502
Again, see why I gave my initial comment :smiley:

In the UK, yes, you have to be earning more (obviously).
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #501
If only the people would wake up
and see the truth! Maybe we could have a real revolution instead of the one that is being orchestrated by the right wing! These are scary times we are living in.
Magurdrac
9 Dec 16 #500
I have never voted Conservative, and everyone thinks they are underpaid.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #499
Apologies, Sir. I tend to think of things on a global scale (as I have done here). Whilst you are looking at the UK top 1%, I was thinking the global 1% :smiley:
richie4874
9 Dec 16 2 #498
Exactly!!! The Corporate controlled press have the people convinced that the Torys are the party of economic security which in fact couldn't be further from the truth! I wish that the Labour Party would use this argument more. The trouble is the working majority have been dumbed down so much that they cant understand.
anewman
9 Dec 16 1 #497
Please try again, to be in the top 10% you have to be earning £78,208 or more https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/adhocs/005220grosshouseholdincomebyincomedecilegroupuk2014 The top 1% will be considerably higher.
Holdsworth
9 Dec 16 #496
I've come to the wrong site - can someone direct me to the site which has good deals please.
mynameisthehulk
9 Dec 16 #495
Interesting that you should refer to the Railways. What about the telecommunications sector as an example? Have you ever worked in a public sector environment? It is like a throwback to the 1970s, not unlike our hospitals.
indiandevil
9 Dec 16 #494
Heat added
mcfly666
9 Dec 16 #493
I just cannot get on with generic Ibuprofen, they taste awful and if a guest goes into my bathroom cupboard looking for a hot towel I would be mortified if they saw a pack of anything but Nurofen.

I use my free prescriptions to get good quality painkillers that both me and my guests can enjoy after an evening of fondue and champagne.

It's hard enough living on the dole without the social stigma of generic value Paracetamol and Ibuprofen being in my cupboard, my guests could think in a peasant.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #492
Again, you can link me to articles all you like. There was already a sharp increase happening. Let me give you an example.

Year 1: £100 borrowing
Year 2: £100 borrowing
Year 3 (crisis): £300 borrowing
Year 4 (crisis continues): £500 borrowing

Suddenly, in one year, you've borrowed an equal amount to what the last three years cost. Now imagine that the Conservative's only came in to power in year 4; the sharp increases due to the crisis had already started, and HAD to continue.
anewman
9 Dec 16 1 #491
"That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital."
Noam Chomsky,
mtuk1
9 Dec 16 1 #490
That's the funniest thing I've read all year. Scotland is the most indebted country per head in the UK and it has a massive deficit. Head out the sand time for you.
anewman
9 Dec 16 #489
I disagree. To make a job worth doing you have to pay a decent wage. Stress and anxiety resulting from overworking, and not forgetting low pay which adds pressure outside work too, lead to laziness and skiving. Anyone who thinks any differently votes Conservative, and subscribes to the "I'm all right, Jack" perspective on life.
redvers
9 Dec 16 2 #488
Funny how people always assume the profit driven private sector can deliver services better...I mean it's worked for the railways hasn't it...
It's private companies that are overcharging the NHS for certain drugs. I recently heard the head of a private care home group demanding that the government had to make more of a contribution. When asked about the £100k+ bonus he'd recently given one of his executives his response was 'well it's a business'. Well it shouldn't be. The private sector has many strengths but healthcare isn't one of them. That's me off my soapbox.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 1 #487
Sigh.. you do realise the richest 1% includes absolutely everyone over about £25,000 a year, right?
bamshopper
9 Dec 16 2 #486
Jeez the absolute ignorance on this thread from people who clearly have been brainwashed by the mainstream media is incredible...
Pixelfill
9 Dec 16 #485
which subsidises the cost of the more expensive medicines !
Magurdrac
9 Dec 16 #484
That has nothing to do with laziness and skiving.
gradeo1
9 Dec 16 #483
Cold. This will not solve the NHS's problems. Self medicate if you must and your local pharmacy can help you determine if that's appropriate, but never be afraid to "bother" your GP. Many serious conditions are diagnosed at too late a stage.
anewman
9 Dec 16 1 #482
Many people forget that before the financial crisis, the Tories were calling for far wider reaching deregulation of the financial sector than New Labour introduced.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 1 #481
And the Tories have in fact made the deficit worse

If people only understood basic economics they would realize that Tory Blair and Thatcher, Cameron and May are all the same beast. They all employed Friedman economics over Keynesian. Friedman right wing economics=deregulation of financial services which in turn left it open for looting and fraud hence the financial crisis of 2008. Prior to Thatcher and Regans era Keynesian economic policy was the norm. All the financial services were heavily regulated and we had very little debt. Jeremy Corbyns and Labour under his leadership want a return to
Keynesian econic policy. All of the big Corporations are up
In arms about it because they will have to pay their taxes and they won't get away with offshore accounting any more! Let's not forget that the papers that criticize and hate Corbyn are also owned and Controlled by just three big Corporations!
Magurdrac
9 Dec 16 1 #473
The NHS are also too soft on genuinely bad employees... lazy, skiving, and getting away with it because it's incredibly difficult to get rid of them without giving them a good reference and packing them off to another department in the NHS. I've seen this happen on both the clinical and administrative sides.

A minority of employees, of course, but a significant one.

Too many people are burying their heads in the sand in blinkerd praise of the NHS in its current form to protest against privatisation, and whilst I don't want to see it privatised, I do want to see it run far more efficiently.
anewman to Magurdrac
9 Dec 16 #480
Maybe if you pay them a decent wage instead of year on year effective pay cuts after inflation, and make it so there's actually enough people to do the tasks necessary instead of overworking people to extreme stress and anxiety, then things can get better.
sohood
9 Dec 16 #479
Nice
MintMouse
9 Dec 16 #478
​no. Scotland, Wales and NI get a block grant. It can't spend more than that. It can't borrow and thus have a deficit.
If you're being semantic then it is a kind of deficit but not the deficit as in comparison to Greece as the original poster said.
bilbob
9 Dec 16 #477
So you don't agree with paying taxes to light the streets, pay for policing, or provide social services? To put out fires, to take away your rubbish, to look after your elderly? To pay for national defence, to pay for a voice?
boothylad
9 Dec 16 #476
i agree the nhs bleeds money but it will NEVER be declared bankrupt :smiley: .but if being a drama queen gets you a good heat youve succeeded...heat added :wink:
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #474
Er, a deficit?
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #472
That's actually a very weak argument. The Financial Crisis caused a sharp rise in the deficit (when Labour were in power, but I won't blame them for the FC..) - it was always going to be the case that the deficit would continue increasing for a number of years, as you can't suddenly make it disappear.
Tacks_inspector
9 Dec 16 #471
Couldn't agree more. I've being buying non branded asprin, paracetamol and ibuprofen for years. Think my last box of paracetamols was 16p from Tesco
anewman
9 Dec 16 #470
Capitalism is the only legal means of theft. Minimum wage should be enough that that risk/reward balance looks less enticing. Unfortunately with Neoliberalism they pit the poor against the poorer to justify paying all the poor naff all, while the richest 1% are laughing all the way to the bank.
MintMouse
9 Dec 16 #469
​ do you think this contradicts me? Scotland has no borrowing powers. Scotland spends it's budget.
As for this deficit as a % of gdp thing. That's true. Scotland currently spends more than it generates in revenue. Most regions in the UK do. Scotland also contributed more than it took out for decades and its under-performing economy (though still out performing most UK regions) is on the back of deindustralisation that successive UK governments haven't dealt with - as is the case also in the north, Wales, etc.
PhilV
9 Dec 16 #468
It might be worth noting that every time a Doctor write a prescription for Paracetamol and you pay your £6-something at the Pharmacists to get it, then the NHS is effectively getting some money back from you....which is good for NHS, really.

Not that anyone would ever do this...
isan5671
9 Dec 16 #467
Great post everybody knows big companies profiteer where nhs is concerned. Thing is it needs to be sorted from the inside out. Managers in NHS need to be given chance to purchase the cheapest product where possible and not tied in to stupid tenders!!
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #466
Agreed. Tory Blair was just a tiny cog in a vast machine. A corporate puppet. Colonialism, resource theft, state sponsored terrorism and an uneasy alliance with a certain dodgy oil Monarchy. Them throw Russia into the Mix and let's not forget Turkey.
qwerta369
9 Dec 16 2 #465
I wish I could like this comment a thousand times.
anewman
9 Dec 16 1 #464
And the Tories have in fact made the deficit worse.
Dougal1709
9 Dec 16 2 #463
Erm, surely paying £7.20 in prescription charges for Paracetamol and Ibupfrofen that cost the NHS about 19p a packet is doing the exact opposite of bankrupting the NHS. It is in fact funding them to the tune of £7.01.
anewman
9 Dec 16 #462
Doctors really give prescriptions for paracetamol? Only makes sense to bother in Wales or if you're eligible for free prescriptions.
squiby
8 Dec 16 279 #28
Its not the patients bankrupting the NHS its the many levels of managers and contractors that pay themselves extortiante amounts for ghost contract.
Ellendel to squiby
8 Dec 16 7 #58
NHS organisations (there's not really any such thing as 'the NHS' from a management point of view) are far more likely to be under managed than over managed (which also leads to problems). They also pay far less for management structures than the private sector.

They definitely do 'up title' jobs though, to make them more appealing, especially in markets (like London) where there is really no chance of competing with the private sector in terms of staff acquisition (definitely not when it comes to salary offers anyway).

"What is bankrupting the NHS" is a massive growth in demand. This is due to a rapidly aging population, and huge steps forward in medical technology, which allows people to be kept alive longer, but at significant cost.

In addition, most NHS organisations will have seen really significant drops in their budgets since 2010.
Danaerys to squiby
8 Dec 16 1 #91
What a load of rubbish, do you have any evidence of this?
si7 to squiby
8 Dec 16 1 #103
If only you knew how right you are!!!
Henlans to squiby
8 Dec 16 2 #112
Its all them illegals using it.. ban them and sack the managers that are not needed and job done!
Edward_Nigma to squiby
8 Dec 16 2 #123
Having worked for the NHS for over 10yrs now, I'm sorry to say that you are absolutely right
sunnyhot to squiby
8 Dec 16 #128
Course it is . i read it the daily mail too.
me_lee to squiby
8 Dec 16 2 #143
Daily Mail much?
wattsey to squiby
8 Dec 16 #171
Yea let's get doctors to run the administration, oversee new programme development, run cost benefit analysis, provide data insight and manage patient lists. Daily Mail headlines like this distract from the suffocation of Nhs funding, scaling back of clinical education budgets and demonize those who are working against impossibile odds. I suggest you attempt to get a job at nhs England or a Commissioning Support Unit to see if this view is valid; just mention it on your application and enjoy the silence.
dt_matthews to squiby
8 Dec 16 #172
Do you have something to back that up, spefically the expenditure on 'ghost' contracts?
bilbob to squiby
9 Dec 16 #289
Not sure which contractors or managers decide their own pay rates...
I know for fact that contract rates in the NHS are amongst the lowest in the industry. I'm not saying there is NO waste, that's clearly not the case, but better management would sort out many of the cost and efficiency issues.
uptwisting to squiby
9 Dec 16 #392
Not so many ghost contracts as there once were but that's just one part of the problem. Add to that reliance on agency staff which can drop care thus cost more in treatment, as rightly pointed out the abuse of medication and issues like procurement (when I was there we paid £4k for WIFI in an admin building with 10 rooms, only 2 were class sized) and you have a massively wasteful entity.

Unnecessary prescriptions cost the NHS millions upon millions of pounds, which is crazy because for 19p you can go a long way to medicating yourself before seeking medical attention. (which is a labour cost too)
BigABag to squiby
9 Dec 16 #401
Aims of a Contractor in Government:

*Put down all permanent staff member.

*Accept all work and sit on it to ensure Contract renewal.

*Achieve nothing and handover part finished work without any documentation.

*Book a daily meeting and then book another meeting on top of that to talk about the previous meeting.

*When accepted a Project that is way out of your scope, call in a third party supplier and learn from them.

*In 10 years you should be able to retire and be a member of the millionaires club.
steve1221 to squiby
9 Dec 16 #420
My wife's just quit working at a hospital (as admin). The place is a new Super Hospital and only 4 years old, it's already in special measures!
There are layers and layers of manager that are totally inapt and spend most of the days covering their own backs rather than doing any real work.
The offices are all open plan with people shouting all the time. Which means the audio typist (who they have intelligently mixed in) can't work properly.
It's meant to be a hot desk setup, but most people have brought in plants and crap and no one's stopped them, so there aren't enough desks to go around.
The IT is a total shambles (remember, 4 years old, new IT). The network support team don't know what a roaming profile is, so every time anyone moves desks they have to reinstall all the packages they use.

And this is supposed to be a state of the art Super Hospital.
lmcshera to squiby
9 Dec 16 #431
They bring in consultants every couple of years, and pay them millions to sack all the middle management. Then they bring another set in 2 years later who decides middle management is lacking. It never ends
crabby09 to squiby
9 Dec 16 #444
CAN'T IT BE BOTH?!

crabby
Undisclosed2 to squiby
9 Dec 16 #451
They pay themselves the going rate. Why work for a pittance in the public service, when you can earn more in the private sector?

Ready for the onslaught of "nurses deserve more!!" comments; sadly that isn't how our work works. Just the above question is one that has to be thought about; the best people cost the most money (at least, that's the thinking...).
M1LFHunter to squiby
9 Dec 16 #461
I don't think so. If you started charging people to use the NHS (like NHS dentists) the hospitals and doctors surgeries would be empty.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 2 #460
Whilst I won't deny TB's part in the creation of ISIS, I would argue it is something that can actually be routed all the way back to the Empire, where we did a fine job of encouraging Taliban ideology in north India.

Whether one supports that argument or not, ISIS is a creation of decades of mismanagement of the Middle East; both from within and on the outside.
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 1 #459
"The gap between Scotland’s spending and revenue represents a net fiscal deficit of £14.8bn including notional share of oil revenues, or 9.5 per cent of GDP, according to Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland 2015-16 (GERS) figures published this morning."

Really? https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/scotland%E2%80%99s-fiscal-deficit-over-twice-uk%E2%80%99s-percentage-gdp
jakkor
9 Dec 16 #458
Also no top of that you have also people spending their money on abroad holidays. Should you forbid that because they should spend money here ? The same with buying stuff abroad.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #457
"It's Jeremy Corbyn"
Thanks for the compliment.
Better JC than Tory Blair the war criminal who created the deficit and gave us Isis
DealsandStuffdotCodotUk
9 Dec 16 #456
Great idea for a post!
Undisclosed2
9 Dec 16 #455
Risk vs reward makes the life of a criminal/drug dealer less than enticing for many. Doctors can go on to earn an excellent salary; our education system is the reason we NEED Asian doctors (whom are often superb) - not the alternative 'career' paths available.
rikesh_
9 Dec 16 #454
you did hot mentioned how to sooth hungry NHS bosses with what amount of money? :sunglasses: _
mergleb
9 Dec 16 1 #453
Bloody hell - it's Jeremy Corbyn.


Someone who clearly hates our country, its native people and its proud history while sticking up for foreigners and minorities all the time.
Your lot have been found out mate - you're going the way of the dodo.
jakkor
9 Dec 16 1 #452
You are right about sending money, but we don't know exact number really. You would need to check how much money you gain and loose. If for example somebody is sending home £300, but £1300 spends here is it good or bad for UK economy. Would you like it to be 0 ?

You also can't say that you will be able to force people to work when you have so low unemployment rate. There is no country with 0 unemployment rate, there will be always some ammount of people that doesn't want to work. You can only try to make this amount as small as possible.
Another thing is that if you have so many foreigners and still unemployment is low than what would happen if you wouldn't have those 2 millions of workers. It does not need to be good for the economy and instead of being better it could be worse. You should also remember that UK population is ageing. This means that without immigrant you would much less people in working age.

Also because this is about NHS I can tell you that many foreigners go and pay for private treatment abroad and not use the NHS as it doesn't work to well now. This means that healthcare of those people cost you less than healthcare of Brits.

In my opinion the main thing is to stop people from abusing social systems. It would force more Brits to work and also would make immigration more valuable as only people that want to work would come here.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 3 #450
I am very serious and I am British and I still live in Xenophobic Britain. I can tell you from personal experience that when the NHS saved my daughters life. She was nine at the time. I don't know if it was a coincidence but I can honestly say that the best quality care,advice we got was from the foreign or to be more specific Asian consultants and doctors. I appreciate all NHS staff so much and that includes British and foreign. The people I would love to deport from the U.K. Are the racists and Xenophobic ingnorant brain dead morons.
Ellendel
9 Dec 16 #449
Haha, if there was ever a need for academic evidence that we were in a post fact society, it would be this thread!
joedastudd
8 Dec 16 27 #29
Your post makes no sense....
A prescription costs £8.40, if you get Paracetamol on prescription then nearly all the £8.40 goes towards subsidising the more expensive prescriptions which cost more then £8.40.
So every time you buy Paracetamol from anywhere other then the NHS your making the NHS loose £8.40.

Your right about not wasting the doctors time, I just don't think you understand how the prescription system work.
Freggles to joedastudd
8 Dec 16 3 #46
​ And the people who don't pay the prescription charge?
tibby to joedastudd
8 Dec 16 1 #137
​That's ridiculous. For a start most people get prescriptions for free.

Secondly no one would pay £8.40 and any good pharmacy would advise you to buy them rather than pay the £8.40. A proportion of the £8.40 would be absorbed by professional fees etc.
smckirdy to joedastudd
9 Dec 16 #448
Most of the money goes to the pharmacy as a filling charge from what I understand, how is that putting money into the NHS.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #447
Are you serious - I'm glad you're not living here any longer ? The best doctors are Indian..... you're 'avin' a laugh ! Have you not read about the number of overseas workers who cannot speak fluent English, and as a result people have died ?
We need to train more staff for the nhs and make them feel valued, like they were many years ago, when it was almost an honour to work in a hospital.
When criminals earn more than a policeman, and drug dealers earn more than a doctor, how can you expect someone living amongst pondlife to think it's a good career move to clean a toilet in a hospital, never mind spend years training to be a nurse or a surgeon ?
MintMouse
9 Dec 16 1 #446
​Scotland has no debt and is not allowed a deficit. Perhaps try not just making stuff up.
dz1
9 Dec 16 #445
Your administration in Scotland has increased government debt as percent of GDP to levels worse than Greece. That is not caring for people. That is guaranteeing people will suffer in the future when you cannot borrow any more money to fund your economy. Sturgeon has screwed you all and you don't even know it.
Natacha786
9 Dec 16 3 #418
In my opinion, this is a very good post
I am glad that someone had the courage to post this and to remind people not to take things for granted even if its the "hated" NHS.

What would some of us do if there was no NHS anymore.
If we can help it then lets avoid relying onto the NHS.
As individuals we could make an impact no matter how small and leave the resources to people who have no other option but to rely on NHS.
carolinej81 to Natacha786
9 Dec 16 #443
Thanks you, you absolutely nailed the tone of the post.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #442
If the lazy Brits were forced to work (not those with a genuine problem which prevents them from working) then we could easily do without half or more of the present day overseas workforce.
Fact is that many foreign workers send some money 'back home' to friends and relatives, which would likely be spent in Britain if a local person was forced to do the job, in addition to the worker usually needing less medical help as they would be physically and mentally healthier and happier, so costing the nhs less money.
All in all it really needs a government which will reduce the advantage of staying unemployed and allowing someone from overseas to do the job instead, although they pay taxes, the unemployed Brit is costing money whilst the foreigner often sends money abroad - I live in a smallish place where foreigners, both working and asylum seekers, are sending money overseas from a local post office...... it's a fact as myself and others have been standing behind them whilst they are giving the details to counter staff.
mynameisthehulk
8 Dec 16 6 #23
The NHS in it's current form is a dead duck, the sooner it goes the better. Free at the point of need - yes, provided by the public sector, no.
yorkie to mynameisthehulk
8 Dec 16 12 #70
That would be the worst thing that could happen, there would be a rush by the usual suspects to cherry pick the best contracts. Those that aren't profitable they will hand back. I was astounded when it was announced that network rail will be privatised again. The last time that happened there was a litany of tragic accidents as they put profits before safety.

If all governments, but particularly this government stopped with the continual reorganisation of the NHS that would be a start. I've worked for the NHS 13 years now and in theory for the same organisation/area, however the name of my employer has changed 4 times in that time as various changes have been implemented. They just keep recycling the same old changes to the point where you end up where you started but have spent extra millions to get there.

It's OK having the abject failure of the private sector running the energy market, however the NHS is too important, especially to the vulnerable in society to allow them to deliver a sub par service whilst making vast profits.
evildrneil to mynameisthehulk
9 Dec 16 3 #441
Private systems tend to cost much more to run and in general have worse outcomes than the NHS. If the NHS has a major failing it's that it's too reactive so it patches up things when they are very bad rather than intervening early and saving time, pain and money.
MintMouse
9 Dec 16 #440
Working people fighting with other working people about there is a problem with the NHS. We voted for austerity and that's what we're getting. If you don't like it, emigrate.
mtuk1
9 Dec 16 #439
Who alive right now colonized and took over countries? Was it only Britain that colonized other countries?
squiby
9 Dec 16 #438
​No doubt the same community has its fair share of rent to buy shops? its easy to buy all those luxuries when it cost fiver a week..
mtuk1
9 Dec 16 #437
The pound sign goes before numbers, not afterwards. We're not in continental Europe!
Gonz
9 Dec 16 #436
"Benefit scroungers" are the reason the prices you and I pay are going up and up. because them "scroungers" are not paying so much to the likes of Sky and Virgin Media and such. those and other companies are seeing a big fall in income. so they make us non "benefit scroungers" pay more!

multiply this over a wide range of services and goods. and we'll soon be paying double for everything because them "benefit scroungers" are not buying anything anymore!

cheapskates! :smiley:

The day they're all given just bread and water. companies and services all over the country would just fold and collapse due to no income from the bread and water people.
quinno1977
8 Dec 16 69 #2
excellent post, one of my big gripes is that our government is paying 30 times the actual price to supply these cheap items on prescription. i go through lots of children's paracetamol and ibuprofen but buy them from home bargains for£1 a bottle. they would cost the nhs maybe 6 times that. wasted money.
cb-uk to quinno1977
8 Dec 16 16 #67
30 times??? Sorry, but this is TOTAL HOGWASH.

Let's start off with some solid facts. According to the British National Formulary (aka BNF) which provides prices for virtually all NHS medication, the NHS current cost for 16 generic paracetamol tablets is £0.48 and £0.78 for 30 tablets.

It's fair to say supermarket prices may be a little cheaper, but they are often selling commonly used meds as loss leaders to get people into their stores. However, the NHS is most definitely NOT "paying 30 times the actual price".

If anyone wants to see the NHS costs for particular individual meds, add a note to this thread and I'll see what I can post if I have some free time. Here's the BNF costing for Paracetamol:

http://i.imgur.com/iLwdqbC.jpg

HTH :wink:
sunnyhot to quinno1977
8 Dec 16 #130
it's a very simple fix.take the meds that you can buy relatively cheaply out of the Drug Tariff and then no one can prescribe on the NHS. Possibly politicians in debt to big pharma to keep the system as it is.
99rb to quinno1977
9 Dec 16 #287
​If your kids are that ill, you might be suffering from Munchausen's by proxy.
bargainhunter666 to quinno1977
9 Dec 16 #309
Why do you use lots? Got three kids and I certainly don't use lots.
andy95 to quinno1977
9 Dec 16 #328
Andy reference/evidence to the 6 times figure?
Disto to quinno1977
9 Dec 16 1 #435
NHS paid ~3p per tablet earlier this year. The NHS can prescribe 100s at a time, and will provide what the user needs, even if it more expensive such as effervescent, liquid or capsules. A supermarket can sell you 16 caplets at a time. Supermarkets charge from 1.2p to 2.5p for their value powder tablets.

The NHS is still getting fleeced on many things, but you can't assume that everything the NHS is prescribing is the cheapest, smallest option and than claim corruption. A direct comparison is more apt.
deany76
9 Dec 16 #434
I use the excellent http://www.myrepeats.com service so saves going to surgery and getting a prescription and get that contagious bug mentioned earlier while waiting to see over worked GP.
All chemists should offer this service.
I also think telephone (ideally video facetime, skype etc) consultations should be increased by GPs to save time money and the upset of being say elderly getting a bus and waiting to see GP while unwell.
My mum can Skype and she is 83 years
richie4874
9 Dec 16 2 #433
The NHS wouldn't be able to run without foreigners. All the best doctors are Indian etc. 1.5 million Brits in Spain a lot of whom including myself have used European healthcare and services for free. We are a nation of migrants ourselves. Australia was stolen from the Aborigines, The US and Canada belonged to the Native Americans. The U.K. has colinised over the world by invasion and then stolen those country's resources and enslaved many of its peoples. Your statements are nieve to say the least. I don't blame you. The British people have been dumbed down and sedated with right wing propaganda for decades. My arguments are made rationally and on the basis of historical facts. When things are not going your way the easiest thing to do is demonize the outsider or the foreigner and use them as a scapegoat. It is not the outsider that has caused the mess in this country it is the insiders. The corrupt governments and greedy corporations who avoid paying their taxes. They are living in oppulance whilst we the people suffer.
dz1
9 Dec 16 #432
Throwing around insults is not an argument.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 1 #430
Exactly my argument for those who say we should allow as many in, as want to come here - why don't those tree huggers and do-gooders actually sign a contract to allow one person or family (depending on how large their property is), to sleep on their floor or bunk beds, and also agree to financially support those people for food, clothing, education, medical bills etc etc for at least two generations - wonder how many would march in support of refugees and immigrants if they had to personally support them, not just through everyone's taxes ?
gidsterc
8 Dec 16 16 #15
who gets Paracetamol on prescription anyway?
my doctor would laugh at me if I went and asked him for it.
And as for 'saving the NHS' - let's leave that up to the politicians...
Agaeti to gidsterc
8 Dec 16 #111
A lot of people, my mother included, gets paracetemol and ibuprofen as some of the many medications in their prescription.
biggrub to gidsterc
8 Dec 16 1 #114
You would be surprised at the number of sad gits (mainly on benefits as they get free prescriptions) who INSIST their doctors write them a prescription. This comes from my GP friend who moans about the fact these same people can always find money for their fags and beer.
2minutenoodles to gidsterc
8 Dec 16 1 #193
People with fibromyalgia (aka hypochondriac) .. A disease that can't be proven which allows fakers to claim DLA.
iamprobably to gidsterc
9 Dec 16 1 #343
You would be surprised. Those on very low incomes/unemployed often get it prescribed...

Remember - the nhs pay a pharmacy a fee for dealing with a script...

Lots of people getting calpol (generic) prescribed for their little bundles of joy... hayfever pills are another favourite! Yes, they cost pence for a pack - but boots, asda (et al) all charge the nhs a dispensing fee... often many times the value of the prescripted medicines.

Good post ... but unfortunately its wasted on many
Mathaeus to gidsterc
9 Dec 16 #410
Leave it to the politicians? Are you stupid? That's why it's in the state it's in! :0
stanvic to gidsterc
9 Dec 16 #429
Minor Ailments scheme. If you meet certain criteria you are 'entitled' to paracetamol etc on the scheme
fireman1
9 Dec 16 #428
I am glad to see your in a position to be able to afford a few hundred thousand if ever you need some life saving surgery or treatment. Not many are.
dazzler303
9 Dec 16 1 #427
Loving this thread, there really are some idiots out there. I dont think the post is about the cost of the goods as in saving yourself money. Its saving a service that is overstretched as it is. Giving someone who needs an appointment that ability to get one in a suitable time frame.

If you honestly are willing to wait in a doctors surgery for ages surrounded by properly ill people with bugs that will more than likely be contagious then I would say you value money more than you do yourself. I would say it works out better for all parties to get these items when out doing your shopping as oppose to potentially driving to a surgery to drive to a pharmacy etc etc.

Just picking up on another couple of things, when in supermarkets if the do have a Pharmacy ask for the paracetamol/nurofen from behind the counter rather than off the shelf they can sell them in bigger pack sizes as its a consultative sale. Over use of nurofen potentially causes stomach ulcers - take it from a nurofen fan !
s24adm
9 Dec 16 1 #416
What you have to wonder is, WHY does it cost the NHS £10ish to prescribe paracetamol when you can buy it for 18p. The company they buy them from likely would still only get the 3 or 4p wholesale price, its all the middlemen and red tape within the NHS that bumps up the price.
fireman1 to s24adm
9 Dec 16 1 #426
This is the problem with this thread. Lots of people thinking they know things when they have no clue. A prescription charge is not what it costs the nhs! Someone already pointed out its 43p!
Thousands of different meds are prescribed at the one single price to you. Your 19p paracetamol cost 8 pound on prescription. But on the flip side the 400 pound tablets prescribed to the next person cost them 8 pounds. They could easily say your prescription is a quid because we get them cheap but could they quite as easily say the next persons is 2 grand because it's cutting edge and expensive.
Your cheap meds subsidise the expensive ones.
And with that you could argue that the original post is rubbish. If we never paid more on prescription for cheap meds there would be no money to treat people with major illnesses.
nevergofull
9 Dec 16 1 #425
This number also include pension credit, widows pension, widows allowance etc
geordie7
9 Dec 16 1 #424
Asda Paracetamol 500mgs x16 for 19p

No thanks. I prefer 'Pfiser' brand from the NHS for £4.94 = 2600% extortion !
deany76
9 Dec 16 #423
I'm confused here: for over 65s or 60 for ladies say it £119.30 x 52 = £6,203.60 per annum divided by £108,000,000,000

I'm getting that to 17,409,246 pensioners or approx 27% of the population based on UKs 64.1M

I know folks are living longer but 27% seem excessive.
FTOdude170
9 Dec 16 #422
why would someone go to the docs or A and E, for paracetamol? that's madness, so inefficient. don't people have better things to do over a 19p packet of tablets? I'm confused, it makes zero sense to me :-/
thomasleep
8 Dec 16 4 #18
Just how does this save the NHS from going bust? you cannot state which brands(or generic) you want to be filled on a prescription
carolinej81 to thomasleep
8 Dec 16 #41
You buy it yourself!
parwez to thomasleep
9 Dec 16 1 #421
When people go to Doc to get a prescription for these medicines. The cost is massive, Costs include, doc salary, reception staff, time slot taken from GP practice, paperwork for filling out prescription and then processing it by NHS bureaucracy to see if claimant was on benefits.

or you can pay supermarket a few pence and give that appointment slot to someone who needs it.
Sunni
9 Dec 16 1 #419
What someone suspects and what they actually have is very different. Fine, clog up A&E with your "appendicitis" which actually turns out to be a bit of gas from your curry last night. But hey, your visit down to A&E was "free" right? No harm done.
rvcshart
9 Dec 16 #417
Not that I agree or disagree on morality and the benefit system. Fact is tho it's more than 60-70.

75£ ish, I dunno current 25+ JSA levels.
100£ rent ish
20£ council tax
Variety of other small benefits, low interest loans, furniture grants, social housing, etc etc etc. Free NHS prescriptions, opticians, dental...

Combine with the fact working simply costs money. Bus, train, fuel, clothing, food rtc.

So theyre getting about 150-200 a week outside London once you factor in paid rent and council tax. Then they don't have all generic work expense, which even for the most frugal is 20 a week alone for bus etc. Not everyone can walk to work.

So, 220 a week relative.
220*52 = 10,400£
Very generic math/rounding. But my point is to day it's just the 75£ a week is wrong, extremely.

So it's not THAT bad, I've lived off job seekers and it's doable. I'd rather work tho, insanely boring not working.
princeprecious
9 Dec 16 #415
very true.

couldn't agree more.

but unfortunately even some voting hot here are abusing NHS when times come to them.
deany76
9 Dec 16 2 #414
I think in Wales we need to change the free prescriptions. Its Madness.
Even is it a £1.00 it would be more than fair, and they would harvest millions.
ps
It can take 18 months to get counselling in Wales - something wrong somewhere.
nevergofull
9 Dec 16 #413
That is not the point, the other money you refer to the £41bn in incapacity benefits, £27bn in Housing benefits also join the pot of money, not just the money spent on the unemployed.
Booreba
9 Dec 16 #412
Whyyyyyyy
asc91
9 Dec 16 #411
Ibuprofen generally better than paracetamol: can't OD, doesn't dehydrate you, less reactive with other substances, better if you've been boozing, also an inti-inflamatory!
MrsMuffin0
9 Dec 16 #409
I love this post!!!! Thanks OP.
Also same price in Aldi (if not slightly cheaper)

Don't forget guys ibuprofen is THE EXACT SAME as nurofen. The name nurofen is what you're paying for. Its the same drug inside that tiny tablet :wink:
otterboxer
9 Dec 16 #408
This epidemic of white van man humour has to stop.

ah, just looked who the op is! hi! couldn't swap you that flamedeer i needed it.
cylonraider
9 Dec 16 #407
totally agree with this, there is very little anyone can do, too many greedy people/companies about that make us feel we have a voice, but in reality does not get heard over the money they are counting.!

there this NHS problem stated above, new houses that are given green lights despite how much locals protest, yet anything builders/councils want goes ahead and anytime a simple home owner wants to extend or change on their own house has to jump hoops with fees/planning etc etc! sadly nothing will ever change.
mergleb
9 Dec 16 #406
Anyone criticising me for not wanting to spend MY OWN money on providing healthcare for strangers (many of whom are foreigners) I expect are people who are opening their own doors of their home to let TRAMPS and DOSSERS help themselves to your food and beds?

No - THOUGHT NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nellygtfc
9 Dec 16 2 #405
One of the big issues is Recruitment Agencies in the health sector. Nurses are earning over a thousand pound working a weekend shift, then you can double the amount that's invoiced from the agency to the NHS.

Recruitment agencies are leaching the tax payers money more than anything. The NHS is more privitised than you can imagine. I know of one Recruitment Agency in the health sector that's actually owned by a member of the Conservative party. It's an absolute joke.
Booreba
9 Dec 16 #398
Who goes to the Dr's for paracetamol?
sweetpea10 to Booreba
9 Dec 16 #402
I bet we would be very surprised to find that number out.

paracetamol
firstofficer to Booreba
9 Dec 16 #404
Meeeeeeeeeeeeee...
firstofficer
9 Dec 16 #403
Wouldn't people rather save money for themselves? I'm for prescription for everything. People pay taxes for this very reason.

Besides, saving money is the main reason for this site..

Going to have to vote this icing cold.

Sorry.

I'll get my coat..
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 157 #43
I think as good an idea as this is by the OP, its just the tip of the iceberg in relation to the services of this country being bled dry by idiots. Until the whole system is re-styled, they will never fix any of the problems. Stop giving out jobseekers allowance to people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months. Give them milk and bread vouchers. You want fags and a flat screen TV? Get you rass out to work and earn it like every other tax paying person in the country does. I read the constant sob stories in the press of "but i only want to be treated as an equal" and "i have a right to do what i want with my benefit money" - no you bloody well dont. It isnt your money and you shouldnt have it. Get out and make something for yourself. Sorry for the rant, but it annoys me something chronic when i see these wasters wandering around town when im on my lunch break. I just despair for the next generation, as im 31 now and i see the idiots i went to school with have never grown up and done anything in the world, they have just copied their parents into a life of benefits and handouts. The first politician that promises to fix this problem will get my vote whether they are Tory, Labour, UKIP, or the Monster Raving Looney Party.

When is enough, enough?
RedRain to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 104 #56
​wow i will tell you when enough is enough when over a million people are not using food banks because of sanctions when low paid workers are payied a living wage when the mps do something about tax dodging companys and when the sick and disabled are not being hung out to dry but yeah i am envious of that £60 to £70 aweek they have to live off and by the way i will not be viewing your reply so dont bother
shadowdogg to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 5 #107
As much as i'd like to say I agree, social welfare is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount we spend on military
Mrepg to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 7 #124
Likewise people like you make me sick. I choose to work, I earn 50k+ if you think its so great being unemployed then go swap with them. Personally I prefer my nice house, good wage and the things I have purchased. Its cost me my time and my love of my hobbies. I pay insane amounts of tax and I am happy to do it. I choose to work and for my tax money I am buying something which is a saftey net and the fact that you are not born to work. I guess its true what they say if you give a moron a calculator he will try to change the TV channel with it! You got a lot to learn about life! Please put the calculator down
buzzard to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 5 #131
Monster Raving Loon Part is where this belongs - and.no, I dont claim benefits and have been a higher rate taxpayer at times.

When the government stops permitting tax evasion, cracks down on tax avoidance and does something about directors paying themselves a fortune and their workers a pittance we can afford to pay for the NHS. This was the envy of the world for its value for money until the Tories got their fingers on it.

And if you want to help the NHS - stop drinking, drive carefully and wash your hands thoroughly so you arent transmitting infections.
hotukdeal92 to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 5 #159
If you can afford Fags (£8-£10) per 20 and booze along with your food, heating, water and other bills and purchase a flat screen tv on £70 a week.. then they are absoloute geniuses who should be managing the NHS wallet.
ruil1990 to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 3 #165
You make a fair point that there are lazy and unmotivated people out there, but to put in perspective JSA is 1% of government welfare spending. 42% is pensions and 16% is disability/incapacity benefits.
boeoz to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 8 #178
Sounds like you're angry at the wrong people to me. Maybe stop watching Benefits Street and you'll see what the Tories are doing to this country.
smoguka to furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 2 #198
I just can't believe this is your actual view on this. Perhaps if you were much older than 31, then maybe, just MAYBE this would be legit. But nah, this is a joke. You just wanted a guaranteed upvoted comment.

Bled dry, check. JSA, check. Fags, check. Flat screen tv, check. Sob stories, check. Food vouchers, check. I could go on..
sJohnson23 to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #216
You can always tell the ones who have their opinions dictated to them by a tabloid paper - three words there give it away.
KermitGrenade to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 1 #237
'You want fags and a flat screen TV?'

I don't imagine everyone smokes but as far as a television goes, what isn't a 'flat screen TV' these days, CRT has gone the way of the dodo or perhaps you favour denying even the tiniest pleasures to these 'wasters' and don't worry not a penny of your tax goes to jobseekers allowance, no, every penny you've ever paid and will ever pay has bought 2 tank shells, 3 screws for a Indian satellite and a few weeks security costs for Tony Blair's protection or a thousandth of a percent of one days tax avoidance and should you become ill or have an accident requiring a million pounds worth of medical treatment best hope people don't add up your contributions, because you're gonna be short. The next time you're on your lunch break reflect that there is a whole world beyond your town and your immensely narrow and bigoted views are vitriolic tripe born from a complete lack of empathy and awareness. Merry Christmas.
Motion to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 1 #257
The problem is the our government bleeding us dry for every penny we have,nobody who works 40 hours a week should be struggling to get a mortgage for a property, Its ridiculous regardless of what job role you have everyone should be able to live comfortably without worry.If people were paid better wages nobody would want to be on the dole and at moment if your working or claiming housing benefit on the dole it leaves you with the same money,it does for minimum wage jobs anyway. David cameron spent £320 million bombing libya.. this is the **** you should be worrying about our UK GOVERNMENT spending £320 million to kill people.... not people claiming benefits at least there not supporting war.
The US spent $9 million a day to fight isis, and when you start researching into it, its even more **** there bombing countries and causing mass murder just to take the oil, all terrorism is all fabricated.
edcor9889 to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #282
Totally agree!It is annoying when I work 12hr long shifts and have to think several times before I purchase something expensive,yet watch my neighbours who are on benefit,sit in the backyard all day drinking,making noise and walking around buying Xbox,Flat screen TV and with Beats headphones!Easy money and it's not like they are unable to work physically,coz they can play footie and dance like maniacs!
SFconvert to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 3 #310
So let people and children starve then after 6 months? You've clearly never been out of work or suffered the absolute indignity of our benefits system, where you are treated as a scrounger from the moment you try to claim. Despite having worked for over 15 years continuous, I got laid off from my company (clearly I'm a no good scrounger). It took me 9 months to find another job, every step of the way of claiming my measly £74 a week "benefit" was depressing and dehumanising. It was no way enough for me to live on, you try living on £10 a day when your council tax takes up £4.50 of that!
If you think our benefits system is generous then you are being deluded by the rabid (and tax avoiding) right wing press. A huge proportion of this country's benefit bill is housing benefit, which is a symptom of our ridiculous house prices and lack of council housing, and represents a tax payer handout/subsidy to landlords. They're the real scroungers milking the system.
bargainhunter1059 to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #327
Couldn't have said it better myself.
bigstu84 to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 1 #356
As long as the decision makers are making lots of money, change is a long way off.
Youngsyr to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 1 #364
Great rant, but unfortunately you've fallen into the trap of thinking that it's the unemployed who soak up all the taxpayer's cash without giving anything back.

The truth is that unemployment benefit is an insignificant amount compared to the pensions the government pays out, to give you actual numbers, unemployment benefit payments per year are about £3 billion, pension payments are £108 billion - that's right, 35 times higher.

Another way of saying it is that for every £1 the government spends on unemployment benefit, they spend £35 on pensions.

But don't take my word for it:

http://visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/
ws007 to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 1 #390
wow 117 likes and counting, that's depressing :disappointed:
madcap to furiousjammin
9 Dec 16 #400
you had me at "rass", spoken like a true Jamaican <3
sweetpea10
9 Dec 16 #399
Someone should send this to the house of commons and Downing street.
mtbgus
9 Dec 16 #372
Take a look on ebay, the amount of sellers on there selling NHS stuff is awful, like NHS only hearing aid batteries in packs of 120, obviously NHS workers stealing them.
s24adm to mtbgus
9 Dec 16 #397
Or people getting stuff on prescription repeat and not needing it. We've bought stuff like skin creams and baby medicines online to find they've been prescribed free to the seller. It's illegal to sell it but like most petty crime, police etc. aren't interested.
Master G
9 Dec 16 #396
They wouldn't be aware of the £20k being written off. An IVA stays on a credit file for six years from when it commenced.
quidmaster
9 Dec 16 #395
Great post. NHS needs to sack the overpaid a$$holes and make their own generic drugs instead of paying to companies who overprice their tablets.
schnide
9 Dec 16 #394
Please provide sources for points 2, 4 & 5 which show they're a significant reason for the problems in the NHS.

Any system - yes, any system - provided for the benefit of others will have those determined to exploit it.

That does not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater and fail to provide help for the people that need it. If we can all afford multiple flat screen TVs and the latest mobile phones, we can afford to look after our vulnerable.
s24adm
9 Dec 16 #393
You know Food Banks existed and were busy BEFORE the benefit sanctions came about - one didn't cause the other.
Dominatez
8 Dec 16 3 #192
You Want treatment ? Show your passport (UK ONLY) and if you can't then you don't get treatment. Simple as.

That will claw back hundreds of millions from people who are not entitled to treatment.

Remove all the comsultants who are overpaid and lazy and watch the health service return to a better state.
super27 to Dominatez
8 Dec 16 #207
Hundreds of millions? lol. Bigot
jakkor to Dominatez
9 Dec 16 #391
So why do you take my money in taxes then ? Should I get those back ? And I pay a lot.

When somebody moves to UK to work, he pays taxes. This means that you have more money to spend on NHS. The problem is that UK Government doesn't send this money to NHS.

The other problem are people that doesn't want to work or pay anything, but you shouldn't care what nationality they are.
kroe9
9 Dec 16 #389
I need these this morning!
me_lee
9 Dec 16 #388
True that they are less than neutral but their report on NHS management is both valid and accurate.
ndl
9 Dec 16 #387
Trump is better than the whole Brexit thing.
kellymaria
9 Dec 16 #386
Also it's so much cheaper for people to buy kids paracetamol and ibuprofen then to get it on minor elements it costs the nhs more then it does to but a bottle over the counter
1on4
8 Dec 16 2 #53
Less than 10% of prescriptions issued are actually paid for. I know there was talk a few years ago of abolishing free prescriptions for unemployed/pensioners etc and introducing a much lower flat rate of a couple of quid. Don't think it ever came to anything though.

Edit: "60% of the population are entitled to free prescriptions but they take over 90% of all prescriptions issued".
ukfix to 1on4
9 Dec 16 1 #344
60% of the population are entitled to free prescriptions, wow!! I'm assuming the most of these are too young to be charged or too old, rather than unemployed, however regardless that figure is astounding...
ultrak3wl to 1on4
9 Dec 16 #385
I always suspected that. I always feel like a prize lemon when paying for prescription as the pharmacist looks at me thinking what a mug.
robertoegg
9 Dec 16 #384
Crikey!! Just reading the news - and this paragraph below.....And we wonder what is costing the NHS? We need as a nation to address this timebomb. It's insanity to ignore it....And I do not blame individuals, these are social problems that come about from poor funding, education and policy. People have got to be encouraged or incentivised to become more active / eat less. Likewise, something has to be done about our addiction to crap food. (I include myself because despite cycling to and from work, 120 odd miles a week, I still have a 36" waist. I just eat too big portions and I snack).

Quote:
Nearly half of men and a third of women aged 50 to 70 are overweight in terms of body mass index (BMI), a measure of fat based on weight in relation to height, Dame Sally said in her annual report.

However, these figures rise to 80 per cent and 92 per cent when waist circumference is considered. So-called central obesity is defined as measuring 40 inches or more in men and 34 inches or more in women around the midsection of the abdomen in line with the navel.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #383
If a contract is signed to supply something at a high price, when the cost is actually rather low, that leaves a lot of spare money to grease palms or send cases of wine etc - try reading Private Eye for a few issues, and see if you don't get angry about all of the corruption. I stopped reading a few years ago when I realised there was little the average person could do about it.
ultrak3wl
9 Dec 16 #382
The Kings Fund are funded by the Department of Health with an agenda to privatise the NHS and charge you every time you have anything to do with it.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/gary-walker/kings-fund-suggests-nhs-fees-but-is-it-really-independent
robertoegg
9 Dec 16 #381
Why don't you believe it? Unfortunately, simple analysis of the costs is not the first initiative. There is plenty of info around on the NHS costs and the areas that are rising but the overall picture is very rarely painted.

It's a shame, but media outlets cannot rely on their circulation sales anymore and so have to drive their online "click-bait" associate funding. To do this, they need to present ever more outrageous claims.:disappointed:
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 #380
The next president really should be a native American, but let's not forget all the shouting about rights for blacks, whites, Hispanics etc, when in fact it's the rights of the original inhabitants which are often ignored, and have been ever since they had their lands taken away and forced to live in reservations.
But if we stick to the present day situations, then at least those across the pond could vote for someone not on the usual voting lists, and who said it like it was, so the 'average citizen' could vote against uncontrolled immigration if that is what they wanted to do, and around half of the voters voted for the Donald.
When you think that a turkey is unlikely to vote for Christmas, it shows exactly what the majority of descendants of the pioneers thought, whether the lefties like it or not,
Quadrille
9 Dec 16 #379
Even more bargains at Aldi, as you'd expect!
ultrak3wl
9 Dec 16 #378
I don't get it, the NHS surely must buy paracetamol on a larger scale than all the supermarkets combined. They must be getting it even more cheaply than the supermarkets, unless their procurement people are on the other sort of drugs?
me_lee
9 Dec 16 #377
Can't believe that a comment so wrong got so many likes.

That the NHS is over-managed is a myth that has been demonstrated to be untrue by an analysis by The Kings Fund. It is, in fact, under-managed which is every bit as inefficient as being over-managed but "NHS appoints more managers" is a too poisonous a headline for them to do very much about it.
fireman1
9 Dec 16 #376
But as per usual neglicting to analyse your golden stats.
Benefits are paid out to people without them contributing in. Pensions are out to people who have paid in for many many years.
You have just taken the paid out part for your argument and completely forgotten about how much has been paid in.
The point of your argument being then that a person who pays into a pension for 40 years, retires and starts getting paid back mostly their own money is a scrounger. And someone that pays nothing in and takes money out indefinitely is a much more an upstanding member of the community.
Nice one genius.
Spamalama
9 Dec 16 #375
You votes tories you gets no NHS
Gugla
9 Dec 16 #374
It's the drug companies that over charge the NHS . They are the main dealers !
fireman1
9 Dec 16 1 #370
Am I actually reading this correctly?
Over 2000 degrees on a something that has been normal price for years!
'Oh thanks op, for all these years I have been picking up the expensive branded paracetamol that sit millimetres next to these very cheap ones'
cdm22 to fireman1
9 Dec 16 #373
Yep! Ridiculous isn't it?
justthinking
8 Dec 16 2 #33
1 NHS box has 200 paracetemol tablets = 12½ retail boxes with 16 tablets per box

13 boxes = £2.47 (you'd have to make at least 6 trips to the shop though)
200 tablet box = £8.20 with a prescription

I reckon either the pharmacy or the NHS is making serious money on these tablets (but the cost for the GP visit outweighs it).
Sophiasky to justthinking
9 Dec 16 #371
Aldi let you buy a maximum of 2 boxes at a time, whilst Poundland will let you buy 3. These products are so cheap to pick up, I wouldn't have thought that people would actually go to the doctors to try and get a prescription for them. If you do get a prescription, it always pays to ask at the chemist if it is cheaper to buy the product over the counter rather than use the prescription (if you have to pay), as sometimes the products can be bought cheaper than the cost of the actual prescription.
robertoegg
9 Dec 16 1 #369
So you agree with me :smiley: It is the cost of smoking, inactivity and elderly care that weighs most on the NHS.

But we have to be careful where to lay the blame.

Smoking is on the wane but it's addictive and needs more education and direct action to try to stop it. Bear in mind that is used to be encouraged, and the tobacco companies are massively powerful.

Inactivity is again something that you think is an individual's problem but why has our traffic policy made very little provision for cycling over the past 20 / 30 years - look at Dutch cities - everyone goes around on bike, no helmets, no hi viz, simple functional bikes, dedicated lanes, traffic lights, junctions - consequently, journeys under 5 miles are easier on bike! And obesity is low. Why are fast food giants allowed to spring up everywhere and target audiences? Why is it deemed a cheaper option for those close to poverty to get a bucket of poor quality chicken rather than make a lentil broth? Government needs to address and answer these social issues.

Elderly Care - it's an absolute disgrace that so many bus services / community care services / local social care services have been axed off the back of the last years of austerity. Funds are simply cut and diverted away from these services. That in turn pushes it onto the NHS. That breaks it because it is not designed to be that service. We need far, far better support in the community to turn that around. At the moment, it's people volunteering that is sticky plaster trying to keep it together. That is a massive issue that the Government are not addressing. They appeal to the pensioner through other means(pensions etc) and sneakily cut the real local support. They are quite happy for every blue rinse's favourite rag, The Daily Mail, to blame it all on immigration. What about all the retired in Spain? We don't pay for their medical - how much do you think we cost over there?


Expanding a little on that last point, I posted earlier about the cost of the reciprocal health care across the UK / EU. The figures suggest that the UK pays £1 for non-doms compared with EU paying £5 for UK non-doms.... We have to be careful to see the full picture. We all have access to EHIC which grants us full NHS type rights anywhere in the EU and seeing as we go on a lot more holidays than most other countries, we are massive winners with the current arrangement.

What is almost a certainty is that should we lose this reciprocal arrangement, it will be the public who then have to fund their own medical bills / increased insurance.

Therefore, it's hard to conclude that the current arrangement is anything other than a good deal for the UK when considering the alternative.

Christ, what a load of waffle - sorry :smiley:
ykhan16
8 Dec 16 21 #21
Shouldnt it be the other way round- tell the NHS to grab meds from Home Bargains. With the £8 prescription charge they'll soon be back on their feet! :smile:
westonborn to ykhan16
9 Dec 16 #368
They pay the pharmacist £1 for ever script issued so a lose
Hare_Krishna
9 Dec 16 1 #367
The issue is one of total *mismanagement* of the NHS. Not exactly of paracetamol. More buying power means NHS must get better deal then supermarkets - obviously.
The -mismanagement- in the NHS is about:
1) payment massive salaries for the managers etc
2) corrupt inside dealings with back-hand payments or payments in kind between the purchaser and drugs sellers.
3) over prescription - (sometimes the patients have stopped using but still gets the medicine because it is still in the prescription). There is nobody to check if the patient is still using that is the flaw in the system. It is not always the patients fault either. The patient has medical issues and the surgeries also do not always cancel immediately when informed.
4) health tourist from abroad
5) excessive immigration from abroad who have not paid into the system
6) In many cases "use-by date" is wrong. Many drugs can still be used after the said date. The drug sellers have made it so that the drugs are thrown away too early. Quick money for drug companies - and more waste for NHS.
7) Inferior drugs prescribed that do nothing for the patient
:sunglasses: there needs to be also alternatives like ayurvedic medicines they actually *do work* and are cheaper for the nhs eg. Himej. Think-out-of-the box solutions are absolutely required if we really care for NHS.
9) many drugs need to made available to be sold on counters eg amoxicillin so that will release the pressure on getting from doctors for common ailments eg chest infection. Let us not forget we want to save NHS - some drastic changes are required. This will also ease pressure on going to see doctors for anything and everything.
mtbgus
9 Dec 16 #366
Take a look on ebay, the amount of sellers on there selling NHS stuff is awful, like NHS only hearing aid batteries in packs of 120, obviously NHS workers stealing them.
kamenitzabrit
9 Dec 16 1 #365
Sorry, but where I live the people who use food banks are the same ones who prop up pub doorways, or think it's their human right to spend taxpayers money on cigarettes (never mind they usually have children who would be happy if the fag money was spent on stuff for them instead) and cases of beer so the parents ''can relax at home because it's too expensive to go to pubs'' !!
I live in a smallish place where everyone knows everyone else, and nobody here is starving, neither were they starving before food banks - the only ones who struggled were those I've already described, as well as those who squandered their money on needless things and you'd see them with the newest phones glued to their ears on calls which all cost money.
In addition, there are asylum seekers near here who regularly queue up at the post office to send money overseas, and some of them even drive a car.............. is that also their human right as well, to spend taxpayers money in that fashion ?
richie4874
9 Dec 16 2 #363
Bang on
casper6391
8 Dec 16 14 #1
Ha nice touch, will be stocking up on, will be needed for the morning after, with all the Jack Daniels deals going round ATM lol
jonyfive to casper6391
8 Dec 16 #173
You'll have to go to a clinic for the morning after pill :wink:
jreading to casper6391
8 Dec 16 #194
​ shame they don't do a value Jack D, that tastes exactly the same lol......Maybe that's not such a good idea :wink:
joetootell to casper6391
9 Dec 16 #362
Go one better and take them at the same time!
nevergofull
9 Dec 16 1 #361
£60 - £70 a week?! Ha ha, try multiplying that by 5 at least when you build in housing benefit, council tax reduction, free school meals, free prescriptions, free bus travel (wales) ... Don't believe the loony left, that the people on benefits are all living off food banks. My parents live in an estate where nearly no on works, they all have iphones, flat screens and the latest technology. And maybe you should read the reply, it may open your eyes to eh reality !
jennislattery
9 Dec 16 #360
Yes but in my experience they also tell you it's cheaper to go and buy yourself from Boots etc. So they give you the prescription (if you wish) and advise you it's cheaper to buy without it, if applicable.
mergleb
9 Dec 16 1 #332
Why should my taxes go towards the health of other people. I want a system where I can truly take responsibility for my own healthcare. I don't want to subsidise spongers.
andy95 to mergleb
9 Dec 16 3 #336
Then find an MP or party that agrees with you and vote for them. Consider moving to America where Republicans don't "waste" taxpayers money on the huge percentage in poverty.

Even better, stand for election yourself and see if you can find other selfish and phsycipathic people to follow you.
bilbob to mergleb
9 Dec 16 2 #337
Because one day, you will be seriously ill, and you won't be able to cover the entire cost of your care, and you will be reliant upon the excess paid by someone else to cover your costs. That's how any system works, NHS, insurance based or otherwise.
qwerta369 to mergleb
9 Dec 16 1 #357
Move to "the land of the free". I hear they've got a great new president.
richie4874 to mergleb
9 Dec 16 3 #359
You sound lovely.
JGav
9 Dec 16 1 #358
If you wake up with suspected appendicitis, don't go to see a GP, go straight to A&E!
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 1 #338
Would it be so wrong to pay contributions towards doctors visits/ other medical care? I know I come from a country which has deductibles if you have insurance.

If we tell people they need to pay a £10 charge for doctors visits or ER care, would it not reduce people going in for the sniffles or a broken fingernail? Thus reducing the burden on the NHS for non essential care.

It's a constant battle I have with my wife (British). She thinks the kids have a sniffle, let's go to the doctors, where I am of the opinion it needs to be worse than the sniffles to warrant a visit to the doctors. So she is used to having the system there, where I am used to health care being a premium you only use if required.

The current system seems to be open to abuse as people will go for any issues serious or not.
M_z to Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 1 #346
That sounds fine in theory. But what actually happens in practice is that because most people are stoical about any illness, and only seek healthcare when they feel they have no choice - these sorts of approaches deter these sorts of people from coming in, maybe for something life threatening, or that is more treatable is caught early. However, it does nothing to deter the idiots who go to A&E because they have a cold or sore throat - because they are idiots and dont care. Actually, some aren't idiots, they have mental health issues, so it all gets very complicated. There are no easy consequence-free solutions.
Sunni to Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #355
Very sensible approach. All due respect to your wife, but yes, that is the general view of the majority... "the GP is free at the point of use, so every small sniffle should be seen". With the hope that you may get a prescription out of it, even if it's just Paracetamol.

If you wake up and find you have severe abdominal pain and you are worried about appendicitis, it is a very realistic chance that when you call to make an appointment, you find there are no appointments available. 2 minutes before you called a parent took up the last appointment for a "cough and cold".

Unfortunately the system doesn't appear to be improving. Charging even a small amount per Consultation (<£5) would be a no-go. There are many patients who will refuse to pay (can't pay?) and a GP surgery may be turning away an emergency.
johnthehuman
8 Dec 16 9 #13
Wait... I'm confused, people pay £8.20 for paracetamol?
rushofoxygen to johnthehuman
8 Dec 16 #181
As the contribution yes.
Madam786 to johnthehuman
9 Dec 16 #354
​per prescription. so yes.
loopylloyd
9 Dec 16 #353
Admire the OP for posting as it's known a 19p pack of paracetamol costs the NHS about £10 on prescription apparently. A lot of problems lie with people who attend A&E for things that could be treated at home or elsewhere or by NHS 111. Saw a picture which indicates treatment costs to the purse and every ambulance callout is about £240+ and walking into A&E costs typically £124!
CAL23
9 Dec 16 #352
Walked past some Nurofen in the Co-op last week. £3.99!! :confused:
gordondr1980
9 Dec 16 #320
Sorry I pay for the NHS so I will use it as much as needed.... they need to stop doing free work for foreigners
Infinitesd to gordondr1980
9 Dec 16 8 #323
So is there a way for foreigners like me to opt out of contributing to a system you don't think I'm entitled to?
bilbob to gordondr1980
9 Dec 16 2 #334
You do know you are entitled to free wok when you are in many 'foreign' countries too, right? It's part of an agreement...
But don't let things like that worry you...
ukfix to gordondr1980
9 Dec 16 #351
What a great attitude, well done!!
dodgymix
9 Dec 16 #350
First factual comment ive read lol

Im farilyk certain most people don't realise the £8.20 we pay in England to pharmacies is basically just the Pharmacy collecting tax for the government with their income coming from The NHS / government book price for each individuals drug on prescription
Annoyedpharmacyworker
9 Dec 16 1 #339
I've worked pharmacy for 14+ yrs and it's disgusting how the government bring in schemes (minor ailments) or allow prescriptions for such trivial things such as E45, allergy tablets and a wide range of things. The amount of prescribing for baby milk, bread, even pasta. I understand people can be affected by gluten but back in the day you had to buy all the things yourself. In my opinion Things like that should be on a private prescription not a green doctors one. Sometimes it's cheaper on a private prescription, what's that say about our government??
iamprobably to Annoyedpharmacyworker
9 Dec 16 #349
Couldnt agree more... a minimum charge of £5 for unemployed would sort the issue.

£5 to see a gp and get medicine is peanuts... and would eventually solve our housing crisis too... lol
Canary0500
8 Dec 16 20 #10
£8.20 if I want paracetamol from the NHS!
paneds to Canary0500
8 Dec 16 #95
​free in wales but still a massive waste of nhs money
neinneinnein to Canary0500
9 Dec 16 #318
​why doesn't the NHS just buy the Paracetamol supply from ASDA?
Annoyedpharmacyworker to Canary0500
9 Dec 16 #329
£8.40 now I'm afraid.
moodysort to Canary0500
9 Dec 16 #348
£8.40 these days. Went up again in April I think it was. :/
check_your_bank
9 Dec 16 1 #342
Really... bit of a fantasy post

This isnt a deal,

No here one is 'saving the NHS from bankrupcy'

A whole lot of 'morality heat' lol
iamprobably to check_your_bank
9 Dec 16 #347
Shows your level of understanding really... or lack of it.
qwerta369
9 Dec 16 #345
Cold. Standard price. Not a deal.
andy95
9 Dec 16 #341
I imagine it's more complicated than that. Not defending the model buts it's probably a method to fund the pharmacists as they do provide a national network of care.

It wouldn't neccesarily be cheaper for the gov to do it. Think of all the free holds/leases the gov would have to buy. With the current model at least phamarcys are part funded from their overpriced ibuprofen, perfumes etc.
bilbob
9 Dec 16 1 #340
Why is everyone so confused about the cost of 20p paracetamol costing 8 quid?
It doesn't cost the NHS 8 quid to buy the tablets, it costs pennies. But the cost of the doctor, the pharmacist, the pharmacy staff, the pharmacy itself, the insurance, the parking the electricity the processing of the prescription, the checks ....
cheapnnasty1
9 Dec 16 #335
Why does the government not have their own private pharmacies then?if they put their foot down and say we are not going to pay you.£8.20 for something that costs less than a pound but the government is too lazy to do that.if you go to lot of Far East countries more than half the pharmacies are government owned.they should take a leaf out of their book.
andy95
9 Dec 16 1 #333
By Tory I assume you include Blair governments too, but that's a different debate.

It is exactly this. Successive governments willing the NHS to fail so eventually the public beg for it to be privatised.
cysmith16
9 Dec 16 3 #331
The only way this will save the NHS is if we all overdose.

Good deal, though!
snoopy18
8 Dec 16 16 #39
How much do the Health Tourists cost the nhs?
squiby to snoopy18
8 Dec 16 8 #45
​Probably less than the £600k an nhs manager paid her brother for a non existent contract :wink:
robertoegg to snoopy18
8 Dec 16 3 #50
not nearly as much as the fat locals....
schnide to snoopy18
9 Dec 16 3 #330
Relatively little. Don't use immigrants as a scapegoat - I've literally been told by NHS staff, as I made a point of asking them during the referendum - and they said that "it's not immigrants who are damaging the NHS."

Successive Tory governments are running the health service into the ground so they can eventually privatise it.

Which is probably why so many people fell for that bullsh*t Leave claim about spending £350m a week on it.
richie4874
9 Dec 16 #326
Or the government could just make the rich and big corporations like google pay their taxes and close the offshore accounts loopholes and use the hundreds of billions in lost tax revenue. But them that wouldn't be in their interests as they get paid and work for the big corporations!!! This government want the NHS to collapse so that they can privitise it so that their business associates can control and monopolize the health service so that they can have complete control on pricing. Making healthcare available only for the wealthy whilst the rest of us perish. If we want to save the NHS we have to get the Torys out folks!!!
ndl
9 Dec 16 #325
He probably meant illegal immigrants. Tho I am not sure if they can get any NHS service.
M_z
9 Dec 16 #324

And you don't think someone who has a bit of bad luck and needs help should get it? Like the guy above? The first thing you want to do for them is call them a scrounger etc etc? Fair enough then.
Shard
9 Dec 16 1 #322
I assume you mean food vouchers? Trivial to bypass, they just swap them, or what they buy, for fags, same as in the USA. There's no point proposing a fix which has already been shown to be a failure in other countries.
DELOS
9 Dec 16 #321
I agree with "furiousjammin" some people do not want to work because they get as much from benefits. The benefits scheme need massive cuts . No one on benefits should be getting more than some working on minimum wage.
Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 #38
So I know there are some cheap generic brands at supermarkets but how do these compare to the big name brands?

I'm guessing something must be different to legitimise the difference between 19p and £3.50 or more.
Begize to Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 2 #44
According to several mates who work in health care, no apart from cosmetic stuff like sugar, colouring or stamping of logo's to make them recognisable
Stompa to Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 1 #48
If they have the same PL number then they have the same ingredients:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/32ffbadd-92ff-42b1-9ee6-c62925df82f7
DrManhattan to Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 #157
Not if it's the same ingredients.
More expensive may be Gel, or the carrier ingredient is different - that is all. Placebo. If you think the 3.50 one will do you better then for you it likely will.
therealclaireh to Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 2 #175
There will be virtually no difference between the 19p product and the £3.50 one i saw somewhere you should look at the product license number/code if the 19p one and the £3.50 one have the same code they are made of exactly the same ingredients also don't get fooled in to buying stuff that says it specifically targets period cramps, headaches or other specific areas of pain they don't, if you have cramps a headache and your shoulder hurts any standard painkiller will work on all three
M_z to Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #292
No, the active contents of drugs are strictly regulated, you do actually get exactly the same, just in a plainer packet. :smiley:
jimhuf to Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #301
Thats what they want you to think
DELOS to Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #319
They have to use the same ingredients
M_z
9 Dec 16 2 #317
I'm pleased you have found another job now. The whole experience must have been awful enough, without idiots like the guy above insulting you too. We all have bad luck and are entitled to a bit of help and respect.
h0tdeal
9 Dec 16 #316
Voted hot, may help some people.

However, the real issue here at play across the board is the Barnett formula, as residents of the united kingdom we are very expensive.
We cost on average 8000 each per person per year in england, there is 4 of us in our household, that would mean we would have to pay back in tax - income and vat 32000.
At the moment my wife pays no tax or very little as a full time level 3 teaching assistant, she receives 11500 per year.
I am a local wagon driver earning 23500 per year, this means we pay approximately 3000
Per year in income tax and approx 2500 in vat per year, so we are giving 5500 to the government, yet we are costing on average as a family 32000 - 5500 = 26500 deficit.

In short mainly because of living and working in a low wage, high cost of living country and economy there is nowhere near enough money going back into the countries pockets, also of course due to the fact that corporations pay top accountants to fiddle their tax contributions.

So in short we are extremely lucky, but as long as wages remain stagnant and no real growth, we are on the hard working financial treadmill... A lot of effort but we are not getting anywhere.
Personally the wife is training as a teacher but that's another 4 years away, I am about to go and work away as a wagon driver, we didn't want to have to do this but needs must, we can no longer manage really,we also have aspirations.
We don't qualify for prescriptions, tax credits, dentistry, school meals, nothing.
We are on over 30000 so don't qualify.

But chin up, we are grafters and we will get there.
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #315
Of all the things I like about the UK, the NHS is what I will miss the most. It's like a safety blanket for health care, but saying that, the US has a lot more specialist care, but it will cost you if you're not insured.

For anyone thinking of moving there, get a job which includes health coverage. Any job which is worth having should offer it as part of your employment.

I hope your friend gets the care they need.
mazymony
9 Dec 16 1 #314
Currently the US is not a good example of a competitive private healthcare system because of Obamacare e.g. Insurers cannot provide plans across state lines and this dramatically reduces competition: higher premiums.
dav1875
9 Dec 16 1 #313
I'm Scottish, so free prescriptions. I don't agree that it should be free, if you can afford to pay then you should. Whenever I collect a prescription for myself, which is probably once every few years (thankfully), I always donate to the charity tin in the chemist due to feeling guilty.
prince7x
9 Dec 16 #303
Everyone working at pharmacy knows how millions of people are abusing the system by sucking tax payers money in the form of benefits... I remember one of my friend used to tell me the real example.. 'when a young man come to the pharmacy with a prescription I said oh! you can buy this without prescription! Then that patient replied' I don't pay for my medine, it's free(no its not, it's paid by tax payers money which has been taken from them)'.Now,when I ask them to sign the exemption at the back of the prescription' he asked for the pen and left his BMW key on the side and proudly marked benefits box'. This tells us that 1 or 2 out of 10 are genuinely disabled/needs our help, otherwise all are very healthy but just don't want to work as they can get more benefits by NOT working than working 40 hours/weeks. Many Tax payers are still renting a flat while these thieves are enjoying whole 4 bedroom house for free and going on holidays every season. Also, they have iPhone 7 while tax payers have to wait few years to get a new phone. NHS should be private, in fact there shouldn't be a NHS. Every time I ring my surgery, I have to wait 5 days before I see my GP, while these thieves are there every day blocking all appointments just for paracetamol.
M_z to prince7x
9 Dec 16 #307
Cool story bro.
bilbob to prince7x
9 Dec 16 2 #312
Does your 'friend' work for the daily mail by any chance?
If you have a problem waiting for an appointment, and would prefer private treatment, then pay for an appointment. Easy and available. Simple.

What a crock.
cheesemane
9 Dec 16 #311
Fair enough- that makes some sense.

The NHS trusts would probably be better off just stocking a large cupboard of cheap medicines at each GP surgery, and just handing them out for free without prescription in these cases.

I'm sure that there are admin reasons why this isn't done, but it should be possible to deal with stuff like giving away free (cheap) medicines without using an expensive process.
bilbob
9 Dec 16 #308
Is not just cost.... I often have as many as 8 a day most days . There's a convenience and availability factor. If I run out which I frequently do when I have to rely on shops as you can only buy 2 packs at a time ,then i can't manage my symptoms .
Don't tar everyone with the same brush.
BTW, I pay for my prescriptions.
iDealYou
9 Dec 16 #306
Being scammed by the big pharmas doesn't help.
2,600% price gouging
jjfisher93
9 Dec 16 #305
Fantastic idea for a post, hope people listen!
M_z
9 Dec 16 1 #304
For what? Well, if you got run over the NHS would be pretty handy. The private sector doesn't do emergency care.

You do realise that private healthcare insurance doesn't cover pre-existing conditions? In the US there are thousands of families that have had to sell their family homes when they have had an unfortunate health episode. Think of it like car insurance - any excuse they can find to not pay a claim or to increase your premium, they will do it.

I am not actually anti-private sector, i have used the French system and found it excellent. But in this country, we wouldn't get the French system as a replacement for the NHS, we would get the US system. This is because the big US health companies lobby mps and ministers, many of whom are very free market orientated in any case - this points to US style, not European.
cheesemane
9 Dec 16 #290
I've never met a doctor who would consider using a prescription for commonly sold medicines.

I've always had to pay for prescriptions, but obviously that info isn't available to doctors when they're writing prescriptions, so shouldn't be affecting decisions.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm surprised. Clearly the NHS is badly suited to providing benefits like free prescriptions for items which are available much cheaper anywhere else.
cowcrazy to cheesemane
9 Dec 16 #302
If someone asks for this on prescription you cannot really refuse. I work in a gp surgery and people often just say they cannot afford anything without prescription. This is of course people who are entitled to free prescriptions.
2minutenoodles
9 Dec 16 #300
You would pass with flying colours too.
Daywalker04
9 Dec 16 #299
I thought the NHS has plenty of money now after they got all the billions saved from Brexit? :laughing:
adeelp
8 Dec 16 4 #25
If you maintain a good diet and exercise you will be needing less pills in some cases. Don't take medication for colds...
mtuk1 to adeelp
8 Dec 16 #110
Fewer, not less.
OrangeAgent to adeelp
9 Dec 16 #298
I really recommend Chiroprators, I had terrible headaches for years then started going to a Chiroprator and within weeks they never came back!
M_z
9 Dec 16 1 #297
I wouldn't bother, you are arguing with someone repeating what they read in their Daily Mail six years ago and thinking they are well informed. Maybe Labour could have been accused of some unwise spending and too many managers? But we have had six years of Conservative ministers running the NHS now, it's underfunded - would say deliberately so.
bilbob
9 Dec 16 #296
Would you be willing to forgoe all treatment from other sources if it were found that your insurance didn't cover you for certain conditions or treatments?
bilbob
9 Dec 16 #295
A friend of mine had just found out that his high price private health insurance won't cover treatment for his son who thought to be autistic... Early and effective treatment is crucial to ensure as normal a life as possible, but they won't cover him.
Guess where he's going to get something done?
ndl
9 Dec 16 #294
I do have an option to get an ADDITIONAL insurance. I believe it would be fair that in that case the government would lover the taxes for that person. As some of the older data show (2012), that 5% of your yearly salary goes to NHS. For what? For "GPs" and "doctors" telling to have some paracetamol? Please. I would rather spend that money on a private insurance and let NHS go to hell with all that under-qualified staff.
cheesemane
9 Dec 16 #293
One of the things that happens when you strip away all the layers of management "waste", is you find that doctors etc start surrendering more time on paperwork and admin than being able to treat people.

Same thing happens with teaching.

Waste sucks, but someone has to provide the support roles so that the "real" workers can operate efficiently.
ndl
9 Dec 16 #288
It would be for the best if the NHS was gone. The quality of service is below par anyway. I'd rather have an option to get a proper private insurance than being covered by the government. Therefor cold.
bilbob to ndl
9 Dec 16 1 #291
You DO have the option, you dolt.
_g_
9 Dec 16 #286
Those who are complaining about a lack of funding from government:
What additional percentage of your income have you given voluntarily given to the government to help support public finances?
What about to your local NHS trust?

Or is it all "someone else's problem"?

A lot of people talk the talk for higher taxes, but very few put their money where their mouth is before being forced to.
jongerry
8 Dec 16 7 #86
If we paid the same percentage of our GDP as the vast majority of the world does for its health service then the NHS wouldn't have a problem. The simple fact is it is starved of funds.
Agaeti to jongerry
8 Dec 16 3 #117
And yet it's still doing quite well in comparison to many other health services. It shows that a socialised healthcare system does work. It just needs proper funding.
Rickardo to jongerry
9 Dec 16 #285
I'm not saying it shouldn't be better funded (or more efficiently allocated!), but we fund the NHS to the cost of about Portugal's total GDP as it is!
mattinhull
9 Dec 16 #284
wife works hor one of the big pharmaceutical company's and pay is good so cold from me
mazymony
9 Dec 16 #277
Socialised healthcare is a failure. The more tax payers money that is put into it results in no improvements. Free market insurance based healthcare results in lower tax and better treatment.
Dodge62 to mazymony
9 Dec 16 4 #283
No. It doesn't, it really doesn't. The US Government spends more per head of population on healthcare than the UK does, in spite of only covering a fraction of that population with mostly-free healthcare. And their results are no better, and in many cases worse, than the UK's. So it doesn't save tax, and it doesn't provide better healthcare, at least as far as results are concerned. You may get a nicer room and shorter waiting lists if your private insurance happens to cover the treatment you need.

The NHS is remarkably effective and efficient. But the Tories want you to believe that it's a dead duck so they can replace it with an ideologically sound private healthcare system.
jamesdzackon
9 Dec 16 #281
I would rather the NHS die. I pay so much towards it and it isn't worth it. I would rather we all have to pay for medical insurance. It works out cheaper and you get a better service. However I'm not prepared to pay towards the NHS AND medical insurance on top of it.
bojangles
9 Dec 16 #280
Just because it cannot be proven, does not mean it does not exist.
However, it does mean it may well be something that can be faked.
I suffer from Costochondritis - it's only diagnosed as that when they can't find anything else wrong!
Does not mean I run to the pill cabinet every few hours when I get a flare up.
Long term use of paracetamol can damage your liver.
bojangles
9 Dec 16 #279
If you check the drug id number, you will find lots are exactly the same & just reboxed for certain ailements like a cold/flu symptoms at higher price.
vixxi
9 Dec 16 #278
Yep! Always buy the cheap ibuprofen :smiley:
infiltrate786
9 Dec 16 #276
Yup. Nhs being fleeced by multinationals. Time to hand over nhs buying to the boss of farmfoods.
W1zz
9 Dec 16 1 #275
Chicken Fillets £4 for 4 at Tesco. Another cost saving tip for the NHS :smirk:

https://s30.postimg.org/z9qobdvsx/IDShot_540x540.jpg
HHUKD
9 Dec 16 #274
Supermarkets have always sold generic painkillers. Bolt on a story about saving the NHS and suddenly people are falling over themselves saying what a brilliant deal this is.

I must be missing something.
ludwig352
9 Dec 16 #273
Wow. 2000 degrees for name dropping the NHS and dropping the bombshell that asda's paracetamol is cheaper than a prescription. I decided not to read too many of the comments, don't need yet another reminder of how many selfish, intolerant twonks there are.
BigBen75020
9 Dec 16 #272
i only go see gps for my sick notes lol not to get treated thanks to my company private insurance i go private hospital lol haha
BigBen75020
9 Dec 16 #271
i agree the dole system and the Medical systeme need to change here ... i work full time and pay tax .... too much
BigBen75020
9 Dec 16 #270
i use to live 20 years in France BTW
BigBen75020
9 Dec 16 #269
I always buy my medicine from the pharmacy , not because i want to save NHS no but its easier than asking my Wonderful GP ( sarcasme) at least my pharmacist say never NO , And INMO i think we should privatise the NHS like in USA or The EUropean countries like France , etc.. where you pay upfront the GP 25 euros or Any Hospital treatment even A&E . you receive a nice invoice after few days . i think we should not have any problem with funds dont we ?
Johnnywelsh
9 Dec 16 3 #226
Voted cold, sick of seeing this type of tripe on top of the deals list. Disappointed with the mods for letting it happen and not either forcing change of title to "Asda paracetamol 500mgs x 16 19p" or just deleting it entirely.
Elevation to Johnnywelsh
9 Dec 16 #239
They're always this price though. I should post "Go outside and breathe fresh air!" in Freebies. :smirk:
goldy12 to Johnnywelsh
9 Dec 16 1 #268
+1 not what I come to a deals site for
seaniboy
9 Dec 16 #267
We could save the UK a fortune if ministers actually held some kind of qualification in the position they held - running for a MP's seat a candidate should stipulate the professional qualification/experience and what ministerial seat they wanted and how that and their plan would benefit the country.


Jobs for the boys cabinet selection is just draconian, undemocratic and wastes money and time.


Us at the bottom need to demand change, universally.
bobbler
9 Dec 16 1 #266
Don't get worked up about it mate, we the public are ALWAYS looking for the blame of why they are not getting "something" that someone else is or why there isn't enough to go round.I have read a couple of pages of comments and it's all here on a plate. It's immigrants fault. It's NHS managers fault. It's disabled people's fault. blah blah blah

It's the way we have been engineered to think so that we ignore the real reasons we are being told that there is going to be no NHS, no state pension, and not enough police. We are constantly being told that such and such is the boogey man this week and we as a nation buy into it almost consistently without fail.
zeberdys
9 Dec 16 #265
Gosh !! well getting back to the OPs original post.

I was in Morrisons the other day and their box of 16 Cold Relief Capsules was 64p amazingly sold next to big named brands costing a lot more so worth a look.

I was unaware of the PL number info very useful just googled the PL code for this product PL12063/0003 and its amazing what information comes up and variation in cost.

Some interesting comments should be forwarded on to the health secretary !!!
mranderson1971
9 Dec 16 #264
I have M.E. and work full time and it is not fake or a mental illness. It is viral and I was left with it after getting glandular fever. I am in constant pain. Christ on a bike this site is full of morons.
I am also transgender and don't get any help from the NHS (pay privately). Care to offer an opinion on this. You both probably go to the GP every time you have a sniffle.
mranderson1971
9 Dec 16 #263
Anyone who goes to the GP for a cold is an idiot.
ohdearohdear
9 Dec 16 #262
Gps agouldnt give it out on prescription. While I was working at a GP's surgery our doctors refused to do it
Reigan
9 Dec 16 #261
Stupid people and their stupid regurgitated views from the sun, daily mail and express, the NHS is going to **** thanks to old people who enjoyed the good years and refuse to die since neither heaven or hell wants boomers.

The government wont fund it and enjoy virgin healthcare since it's coming to a hospital near you.

Starve the beast baby.
djames108
9 Dec 16 #260
the problem with the NHS is echoed across the world be it a bank, government or firm;
Greed
Laziness
Incompetence
Complacency

Big up to the people on the front line doing the graft and the rest......shame on you
Stimpington
9 Dec 16 #259
I care about my half baked opinions and so should you.
spaceinvader
9 Dec 16 #258
Big thanks to HUK genius '2minutenoodles' with their professional medical opinion there... I can make a fake DLA claim by pretending I'm mentally ill, that does not cast any doubt on the legitimacy of mental illnesses, same for back pain and other illnesses.

That was a thoroughly dimwitted argument and you made a clown of yourself by airing that jelly-brained thought process in public.
spaceinvader
9 Dec 16 2 #256
From my perspective we don't have one, I was admitted to cardio emergency ward with tachycardia and atrial fibrillation a few weeks ago, accept the cardo ward refused me entry because I wasn't sick enough, A&E told me to go to ACU because I had been referred by a doc therefore A&E was inappropriate, ACU told my to go back the cardio ward and ask to be admitted again. After one hour thirty minutes of pacing around the hospital being palmed off I got a taxi to a hospital 20 miles away, 2 hours 30 mins I went without treatment, I was lied to and generally treated like crap (Royal Liverpool Hospital).

GP, has ignored all my cardio warning signs attributing them to anxiety despite no history of anxiety and no actual anxiety (to be expected when they receive bonuses for meeting targets to reduce referrals), I've had to fight hard for the couple of specialists I've seen over the years for heart problems and chronic gastric symptoms and obstructive sleep apnoea, if they can't ease your symptoms with a pill they're not interested.

Currently looking to go private so I can get some answers about my heart. The NHS is already finished, it's just a cash cow for politicians chums whose companies come in to build nice fancy buildings with all your tax money, god forbid they spend any of that money on staffing.
aibon
9 Dec 16 #255
Just a shame we cant buy Amoxicillin or other penicillin based drugs without a prescription. They literally cost pennies
agentfourty7
8 Dec 16 2 #203
Not against this campaign or the idea of saving NHS BUT I'm work with drugs - discovery to development etc. and I firmly advise against buying those cheap 'drugs'. They are synthetic polymers that has low administration time and high impact on kidney filtration rate. Try getting a box of Aspirin from Morissons or ASDA - read ingredients, Talcum is one the many unnecessary, synthetic chemicals that are added to these meds. To give them substance, make them fair and lovely looking. These are made from what we call 'dead stock' of actual medicines. All in all there's papers, reviews and what not if you're really interested. They'll work now and then but they're not exactly 'doing' what they're meant to or doing ONLY what they're meant to be doing to your organs. There might be an alternative not saying I don't support this move of saving NHS and it's funds.
Agaeti to agentfourty7
9 Dec 16 #242
Can you provide sources for this?
Agaeti to agentfourty7
9 Dec 16 #243
Can you provide sources for this?
Wasn't it from 17.5% to 20%? I thought labour knocked it down to 15% for a bit to ease things during the recession and then put it back up to 17.5% and then the conservatives put it to 20% subsequently (after claiming they wouldn't as politicians never lie)
yrreb88 to agentfourty7
9 Dec 16 #254
I call BS, I don't believe most of your comment unless you have some evidence to back it up. Generic medications have to have the same performance and they will still use the same approved fillers, binders etc. Perhaps not the exact same recipe but certainly not more detrimental to health as you claim. Talc is not a synthetic chemical, it's a naturally occurring mineral, and even trying to point it out as being bad for this reason is ridiculously ironic for someone who apparently works with drugs many of which will be synthetic chemicals. :wink:
joseph94ovo
9 Dec 16 #253
Anybody a Pharmacologist here, i need some help on my essay.
spaceinvader
9 Dec 16 #252
Labor and Tory governments poked the holes in the bucket, now the water can be collected by their corporate chums instead of wasting away in the bucket being used by the peasants.
Ydot
9 Dec 16 #222
How on earth is this so hot? It's just a list of crap medicine that has always been available for very cheap.

You should never even use paracetamol and ibuprofen unless you desperately have to. A) it seems like it never actually really helps and instead relies on the placebo effect. B) Don't put drugs into your body if you can help it! These things still have side effects and they cause your body to rely on medicine, making your immune system weaker. The best medicine is a healthy diet - lots of natural, non-GM fruits and veg.
yrreb88 to Ydot
9 Dec 16 #251
What evidence is there that these anti inflammatories have no effect whatsoever and suppress the immune system?

Sorry but some organic kale isn't going to prevent or cure meningitis. There are no significant nutritional or health differences between GM and non-GM, technically everything is GM anyway.
joseph94ovo
9 Dec 16 2 #250
I can't believe that I've read every single comment.
martinmr2
9 Dec 16 #249
Home bargains also sell cheap hayfever and anti allergy tablets.
martinmr2
9 Dec 16 #248
Home bargains also sell cheap hayfever and anti allergy tablets.
eset12345
9 Dec 16 #247
the NHS needs complete reform and to pay the going rate for all supplies they bring in.

if a consumer can buy XYZ cheaper than the NHS then that's really saying something, if a wholesaler can buy in cheaper than the HNS then that is saying something.

But it'll never happen, way too many fingers in too many pies.

Becoming a preferred supplier to the NHS for ANYTHING from toilet paper to high end medical equipment is essentially having a blank cheque in your name
Mandroid578
9 Dec 16 #246
You know who should pay? That bit** that got breast enlargement paid for through NHS. She's probably whoring herself out and making loads more.
albimesc
9 Dec 16 1 #245
Not a deal
ttttd
9 Dec 16 1 #244
Actually national debt has tripled under the Conservatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

There is no excuse for this. Labour plunged the country into a deficit to bail out the banks. Whether you like it or not, it was necessary. The Conservatives responded by cutting taxes for the top 1% and businesses and then borrowing to plug the gaps and reduce the deficit and now national debt is EIGHTY PER CENT of GDP.

Labour didn't do anything. That's just Tory rubbish.
qwerta369
8 Dec 16 #196
All right if you want cheapo generic paracetamol that doesn't work but if you want proper Panadol it's still expensive.
wildecat to qwerta369
8 Dec 16 1 #210
:laughing: You fool
Agaeti to qwerta369
9 Dec 16 #241
Well...
No...
Science say's you are wrong in every case.
sebrichter
9 Dec 16 2 #240
While I agree with the spirit of this, I disagree that the way to save the NHS is to stop using it. We have to just realise that money that could be spent on NHS is spent elsewhere. If there was money to bail out banks then there should be money for an institution that literally saves lives.
Agaeti
9 Dec 16 #238
I'd say it's a disease that hasn't been proven yet rather than can't be proven. Remember that a lot of people have said similar things about a lot of illnesses before they were a proven thing.
NickyOhMG
9 Dec 16 #236
Doctors aren't encouraged to prescribe paracetamol, never have been and I've yet to meet one who's happy to dish it out. The prices that are being thrown around are all a bit over the top and only relate to packs of 100 which aren't 19p anywhere. Doctors are only permitted to prescribe paracetamol as a long term solution if no suitable alternative available rather than a quick fix 16pack for a sore head or day fever as then when you start adding in doctor surgery time, pharmacy staffing and running costs of course it's not going to be under 19p from start to finish. This same story goes about every year and Health Officials seem less bothered than the media as it costs them TWICE as much at their worst, or at least so thats what the officials claim, and the fact they do what they can to limit prescription by only allowing it under certain circumstances leaves only the doctors at fault if the problem is expanding.

I think the whole point of bringing it up again and again is to create awareness and encourage people to think twice before using any NHS service and expecting pill handouts rather than to try and save the world by promoting low quality pain pills that can damage your liver if used incorrectly or extensively and lead to higher NHS costs. I'd say it's more to make people aware that using GP and pharmacy time can be costly if all you have is a minor issue that could've been sorted with some cheap pills and rest. My doctor has told me for at least ten years to buy my own pain killers when I mention any pain issues and I've never questioned him for a freebie. It's nothing new, in Scotland at least, but then again the statistics I keep seeing only seem to mention England.
squiby
9 Dec 16 #235
Thats a job description for one of the phoney posts that they invent and then play musical chairs on. You can employ 10x the amount of doctors and nurses on the ground and do what the NHS was meant for which is look after those who need it.
mehmeh
9 Dec 16 #234
+1 on this not being the place for peoples blogposts. Cold & spammed.
MrsJacobs14
9 Dec 16 #233
Great post
BigMark88
9 Dec 16 #232
Wales' top-paid locum doctor paid £183,000 in 2015-16. It is just a LOCUM doctor. His wage can buy 1 Million pack paracetamol. Connect them all together is about 100km long. The top 5 locum doctors in wales are
£183,000 Aneurin Bevan Uni Health Board
£159,000 Aneurin Bevan
£144,000 Aneurin Bevan
£137,000 Betsi Cadwaladr
£133,000 Aneurin Bevan

Now you know one reason why NHS is bankrupt. It is not just because of the overseas or EU patients.
hotukdeal92
9 Dec 16 #231
​Well whoever is giving him 14k credit after his 20k wiped off are stupid!
annp1
9 Dec 16 2 #230
As usual they work with their media friends, telling us all to look at the unemployed, the refugees, the immigrants, the disabled, the young struggling to find a job...don't look up at the super wealthy, and the politicians, doing nasty deal to let them off millions in tax, let's harass the guy getting seventy quid a week, because it's the poor who've bankrupted the country, clearly.
118luke
9 Dec 16 3 #229
I was thinking about this today while driving home from work.
Since the Tories came to power they have
1. made drastic cuts to public services,
2. cuts to income support and benefits and
3. raised VAT up to 20%.

That last point alone will have made a net income of tens of billions (maybe hundreds!) - think of how many VAT chargeable items are sold every single day, and how much extra money that has made the treasury since VAT was raised from 15 to 20%.
Funny though, that that wasn't enough.

Point 1, They have also slashed billions from vital services, leaving our health and protection services in a critical state, forcing hospitals to close and downgrade. I would love to know how much that has saved (truthfully), but that wasn't enough either!

Yet, - we are told we are still in a mammoth amount of debt. Someone, has to be lying - money just doesn't vanish into thin air. But there again, this is why i absolutely hated the liars Osborne and Cameron. I diddn't trust either of them from the moment they stepped foot into No.10.
Infinitesd
9 Dec 16 #228
Dominatez, please show a bit of respect. Amazing how a good deal could turn into this much hate.

I'm a foreigner who has been contributing to the system for 15 years, and have only seen a doctor a handful of times.

By your theory I have no right to the treatment I've contributed to? Why cause I'm not British?
Billyboyz
9 Dec 16 #227
I feel you're pain. I really do.

I know Crohn's is not fibromyalgia however Crohn's is a disease that keeps on giving, as us Chronies put it, unfortunately fibromyalgia is connected as a symptom along with numerous other bodily symptoms. It's a ****. I should have shares in Andrex by now!
Elevation
9 Dec 16 2 #225
Um....sorry to break up the novelty post party but aren't they always this price? I was under the impression the idea of the site was for stuff that isn't usually a particular price.
Chrrye
9 Dec 16 #224
What is 'properly'? What £ number is that?
Chrrye
9 Dec 16 #223
The NHS will never have 'more than enough money'.

There will always be more wonderful work it can do to keep people alive and healthier for longer and lots of magical new tech and drugs that can help as part of this.
2minutenoodles
9 Dec 16 #221
Crohns isn't fibromyalgia, I have IBS and have to have 12 loperamide a day and don't claim to have "fibromyalgia". I also have life threatening allergies and am a severe Asthmatic. My point is Fibromyalgia is specifically non specific which makes it easy for people to claim as anything can be a symptom. I know what it is to have illness. Maybe it is just when I see someone say "oh I can't cope today I am aching all over, I have fibromyalgia" ok I'll do the dishes.

Edit: Funny thing is I didn't say it doesn't exist but that is my point exactly.
Bal00chi
9 Dec 16 #220
Yes OP but Asda will only sell me one mingy 16 pack!

on prescription I can get my full overdose on one order, which on the long run would be cheaper for the NHS...
Spasho
9 Dec 16 1 #219
Paracetamol are always helpful. Will pick up two boxes.
Curlyman83
9 Dec 16 1 #218
My point was that no-one should have to pay prescription charges - the NHS should be properly funded through taxation/NI contributions
Curlyman83
9 Dec 16 2 #217
There'd be more than enough money to fund the NHS if this government did the decent thing and compelled their wealthy friends and corporations like Apple/Amazon/Starbucks etc to pay the correct level of taxation.
Billyboyz
9 Dec 16 1 #215
mmm Try having Crohn's Disease & tell me that fibromyalgia don't exist!

I've always worked & paid my dues. Not claimed DLA yet as I don't want to be more of a drain than I am with a Disease that is not of my doing or any known cause!
raks_8
9 Dec 16 #214
i'll stick to prescription thanks
Mcarsehat
8 Dec 16 #211
How is this going to save the NHS from going bust? aren't these made by seperate manufacturers and tested by a government sector, not our health service?
carolinej81 to Mcarsehat
9 Dec 16 #213
Well it was pretty much a flippant title. The NHS prescribes way too many over the counter medications which should cost pennies for individuals to buy. Every little helps to protect the NHS from the tories (blue or red)
blackmail2005
9 Dec 16 #212
In Iceland too
clarabellaaa
8 Dec 16 1 #209
BTW if your asthmatic it is advised not to take ibuprofen
clarabellaaa
8 Dec 16 #208
Oh I thought this was a deal about pain relief, not a slagging off thread for professions and social class. But good old JSA people with their fags, booze, flat screens, let's not forget the ponies and goats in the garden too, always take a battering.

*waves at David Cameron*
Phil78
8 Dec 16 #206
I may be wrong but I think the person you're replying to was talking more about the folks that could go and get a job, could better themselves and not rely on benefits (however big or small) but can't be arsed. They're the people abusing a welfare system that was set up originally to help those who you're talking about and who can't work or have poorly paid jobs etc.
abhijitdash123
8 Dec 16 #205
Very well wriiten post. Thank you
Firefly1
8 Dec 16 #204
Plus aeykeay has just completely made a fictitious statement.
I know what a guide F2 (junior doctor) locum rate per hour is - and if you were to pay anything of the magnitude of 6!! times less for a "clinician" (by this, he means a junior doctor or nurse...) then it would be illegal as it would be far below the minimum wage.
agentfourty7
8 Dec 16 #202
Not against this campaign or the idea of saving NHS BUT I'm work with drugs - discovery to development etc. and I firmly advise against buying those cheap 'drugs'. They are synthetic polymers that has low administration time and high impact on kidney filtration rate. Try getting a box of Aspirin from Morissons or ASDA - read ingredients, Talcum is one the many unnecessary, synthetic chemicals that are added to these meds. To give them substance, make them fair and lovely looking. These are made from what we call 'dead stock' of actual medicines. All in all there's papers, reviews and what not if you're really interested. They'll work now and then but they're not exactly 'doing' what they're meant to or doing ONLY what they're meant to be doing to your organs. There might be an alternative not saying I don't support this move of saving NHS and it's funds.
laurmacxx
8 Dec 16 2 #201
nice opening to the title OP :')
chipiejohn
8 Dec 16 1 #200
If you're going to your gp for any of these drugs then you are part of the problem!
You're probably the sort of person that demands antibiotics for a cold or the flu
aeykeay
8 Dec 16 2 #180
How about if NHS stop overspending on locum doctors and nurses and start taking control by managing teams instead of being friends with their staff. A single locum doctor/nurse costs NHS between 8-10 times more than a single employed clinician. Current team managers behave like friends with their staff and do not focus on performance which results in NHS paying out for the services of a dead rat. I love NHS and believe it is the best service in the world along with some really passionate people serving us. Equally I am very annoyed at how it is still run with large waste on a daily basis be it waste of resources or waste of spend. On a positive note this is still a hot deal and as they say every little helps. Hot from me.
tianuk3 to aeykeay
8 Dec 16 1 #199
Maybe if they employed enough full time staff or paid their staff a decent salary there wouldn't be so many locums?
tianuk3
8 Dec 16 1 #197
Apologees for the typos; it's late evening and I've had a long day; I've been busy working 223243 jobs you see.

I'm not a party politics guy; but it wasn't Labour which caused the financial crisis which affected every Western country; it was the greedy bankers and lack of regulation (which is a failure of both Con & Lab). Lets not forget that UK national debt has risen by £555 billion since 2010 not fallen.
Alfsmum
8 Dec 16 1 #195
Think you'll find that if the true figures for non-doms using the NHS (either from the EU or outside ) were published there would be a public outcry. The NHS was conceived to give treatment at the point of need - which was a great idea at the time. These days the world and our country has changed, and so have the attitude of the people. They demand treatment not for illness or injury, but for self indulgence such as plastic surgery to increase their self confidence or a gastric bypass because they're too damn lazy to lose weight themselves. Tattoo removal is another. Add to all this the never ending queues of people from overseas who haven't paid a penny into our system and you can see why the NHS is doomed to fail, unless a drastic solution is found.
Alfsmum
8 Dec 16 1 #191
Check out the ingredients on the supermarket brand items - I buy their cold relief capsules which are I think about 65p a pack and they contain the same ingredients as named brand items for three times the price.
cikki100
8 Dec 16 #190
Everyone going on like buying a couple of pills going to save the NHS, NHS has far more serious problems than people getting prescription pills.
blugardian
8 Dec 16 #189
Sorry, as a nurse i have the strange affliction of taking anything that isn't nailed down! If that's wrong then lock me up and nail the key down.
zombie
8 Dec 16 #188
You guys have no clue how the system works.
markbartlett
8 Dec 16 #187
Well said.
googley2
8 Dec 16 #186
What kills me is the total idiots who "travel" by bus or car to the doctor to get these on prescription, probably takes 2 hours to get through the appointment and still think that was cheaper and more sensible than buying a pack themselves when shopping!! The bus must cost £2 at least these days (dont use them so not sure), the government hasnt really advertised the scheme where the chemist can give them to you for free under the Small Ailments Scheme to save the visit to the doctor.
tianuk3
8 Dec 16 7 #169
Enough of the sob stories and the CVs showing how much you work and therefore how much people who don't work don't deserve any sort of life at all.

Do you really think even "benefit scrounging" would be a decent life? really? wake up.

Government and the big business must love a lot of these comments; as you are all being taken for fools.
Do you really think the very small number of 'benefits scroungers' in this country is to blame for the NHS for the state it is in? or is it the health tourist immigrants all coming over here to be treated?

Look at who is meant to be responsible for running the health service effectively; the Government.
What have they done? the NHS is in its worst crisis EVER, yet not a single mention of it in the Autumn statement or funding.

No paediatric ICU beds, ED waiting lists >4hours, ridiculously low morale amongst nurses and doctors with a new contract which will make their task of providing you with SAFE and DECENT care increasingly more and more difficult. It's not hyperbole when you see the news reports on the TV about the state of the health service; all this under the Conservative government when it was in surplus when Labour left it.

Yet right now we are hearing "oh it's unsustainable".etc; if it's not being funding properly of course it's going to have problems.

People have to face the facts that the Government will need to pay more towards it. This likely means increasing taxes for it. They however don't have the bottle to do this.

However, they do have the bottle to reduce tax for big business, the extremely wealthy (£250,000+ pa), fly jets into Syria, trident missile subs, renovate stately homes and royal buildings with taxpayers money (when the owners are multi-millionaires).etc oh and one big thing; bailing out all the banks in 2008 (this one is the fault of all the parties).

I'm not a fan of NHS managers and think most are a waste of space but why has no one mentioned PPI? Pretty sure that is costing the NHS more than all the managers combined. Lets face it the government want it to fail; so they can sell it off to their mates. They don't give one s**t about you or your struggles, look at George Osborne, he took money from disabled people and the poor and he has already earned half a million this year.
OptimusPrimeval to tianuk3
8 Dec 16 1 #185
​Another brilliantly put post.
Chrrye
8 Dec 16 2 #184
Lmao - everything was in surplus when Labour left government apart from (oh yeah) the country. Like spending borrowed money is a great achievement and management. :laughing:

Think you mean PFI not PPI on your other point? :confused:

Healthcare spending is an infinite black hole. The more you spend, the longer people live. The longer people live, the more ill they get for longer at the end. :man:

You have to draw the line somewhere. You are right the government have declined to make a hard decision and raise taxes to fund more. Sadly they have also chickened out of the other decision options of:
> reducing what is provided
> getting people to pay separately in some way
All of these options are deeply unpopular so no decision made & NHS will continue to be asked the impossible with all the little and occasionally very sad and fatal frictions this causes. :disappointed:
Paradroid888
8 Dec 16 4 #166
Amazes me that people fall for this stuff about scroungers and immigrants bleeding the country dry. That's just distraction tactics from our dishonest and manipulative politicians.

These costs are a few hundred million a year (probably nearer to £100m). But we happily spent £50bn on the bank bailout and £12bn+ on nuclear subs that can't fight terrorists.

A bit of perspective is needed.
OptimusPrimeval to Paradroid888
8 Dec 16 #183
Good point, well made!

​People just need to wake up and not believe everything spoonfed to them by the msm and press. There are a LOT of sheep out there though :disappointed:
carolinej81
8 Dec 16 #182
Oh sorry, I completely forgot these threads were patrolled by the punctuation police
moneysavingkitten
8 Dec 16 #179
Definitely less than.
moneysavingkitten
8 Dec 16 #177
No, I am taking about the OP.
super27
8 Dec 16 1 #176
It would be a good idea if the NHS charged all the time wasters. So lets say a ambulance goes to a call and it was a false alarm or the patient had a minor panic attack which didn't require a ambulance, they should be charged £40. Say if a patient is a hypochondriac and calls for a doctors appointment every week, that patient should be charged £10 if the outcome of the assessment was deemed unnecessary
golfie
8 Dec 16 #174
What about the big wigs having conferences all expenses paid at our local hotel. in my opinion that's where the waste is in the nhs. unlike a private company, no one is accountable in the NHS.
kanaparthy
8 Dec 16 #170
For all who think pharmacies make a fortune from paracetamol prescriptions, please be aware that apart from a fixed dispensing fees of 90p, the pharmacies only get paid £2.28 per 100 paracetamol.
And the £8.40 prescription charge ( where applicable) is not retained by pharmacies and is forawarded to NHS.
jayincrewe
8 Dec 16 #168
https://m.popkey.co/714236/xMzD4.gif
Monaco Blue
8 Dec 16 #167
If you ask at the instore pharmacy they sell them in packs of 32 and they are better value. Apologies if already posted, but this is one long thread...
clingon
8 Dec 16 #164
Was standing in at the airport check in desk only to hear the mother of a family proudly announcing that they went to the doctor to get their free NHS suntan lotion for the holiday. On the flip side know folk that that work in the NHS drawing £50k+ salaries to produce surveys of surveys that the bottom line result is just pure common sense. Its about time that the NHS had a public HUKD of its own, instead of deals its issues we can vote on!
gardinator
8 Dec 16 #163
Well why the actual donkey cockadoodledo don't the Government use Asda's supplier for the NHS rather than the stupidly over hiked firms the Government use at the moment?

Psst.. I don't think the Government care so why should you.
tehwabbit
8 Dec 16 #162
This is exactly correct. Sometimes the expensive ones will have something like Caffeine too or some other kind of herbal remedy stuff. In terms of the actual paracetamol, it's the same stuff if its 19p or 19 quid
JetFlash
8 Dec 16 1 #161
Yeah, I guess that's true. But knowing this and that outlets are forcing opinions on us is the first step to having a more balanced and informed opinion.

Can't say that the general public isn't being manipulated by tabloid giants such as daily mail et al. and their hate-filled rhetoric and scapegoat-ing.
Chouman
8 Dec 16 1 #160
Came across a guy who has just entered his 2nd IVA. Never worked a day in over a decade, but racked up over £20k of debt and entered an IVA. That cleared 6 years ago and he's spent the past year racking up another £14k which he's just entered another IVA for. He reckons he should actually pay around £1200 towards this in the end.
He was laughing saying this and then asked me to work harder and earn more tax because he needed a pay rise (in his benefits). I could've lamped him one!
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 #158
​There really is no such thing as a free press anymore. Whether it's religion, politics or good old fashioned money, all news outlets serve an agenda.
JetFlash
8 Dec 16 4 #156
This. Most mainstream media is owned by a select few wealthy individuals/corporations, and that's not a conspiracy theory. It's a massive problem. It means that agendas are pushed through these media outlets onto the common people, which seek to only benefit the interest of these corporate entities. Did we hear much about NHS contracts being sold to the for profit company Virgin/Richard Branson? Nope. Wonder why.
Chouman
8 Dec 16 3 #155
I was operated on by a Pakistani orthopaedic surgeon around 20 years ago. Nice guy and he turned my life around, I'm very grateful for immigrants in the UK.
People forget we live in an increasingly shrinking world and people like my surgeon have come to the UK to have a better life and work in a world leading system. If we had sufficient capable human resources within the UK then the visas offered would not be available and people like him would not be here.
He told me earlier this year when I went back to see him for a check up that after 35 years of working for the NHS that he's going back to Pakistan to settle for his pension years. Yes, he's drawing it from the UK purse and taking it abroad, but he deserves it. He could have earned more working in many other countries, but chose the UK. His 2 sons are surgeons and he has a daughter who is a psychologist all in the NHS. I won't mention a name on a public forum, but he has chosen to come here and we have reaped the benefits of him having done so since.
I think that after the hurt and suffering we have caused around the world then I'm surprised that former colonies are not bitter for centuries of pillaging carried out by the UK.
jayincrewe
8 Dec 16 #154
https://m.popkey.co/714236/xMzD4.gif
Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 #146
19p seems a good deal. Heat from me. Just wish we could buy more than 32 from the same place. Does it work if you go out of the store and back in on the same day? Just keep doing that until you got a few to make it worthwhile?
tehwabbit to Infinitesd
8 Dec 16 1 #153
You can do it all at the same time, just not legally in one transaction. Nothing stopping you (legally) buying a hundred packets so long as you break it into 50 separate transactions.

You can actually buy upto something like a 100 tablets at a time within the rules (or could last time i looked about 2 years ago), but most super stores limit it to 2 packets for some reason.
JetFlash
8 Dec 16 1 #152
I remember seeing a post floating around being shared on Facebook about how buying paracetamol/ibuprofen from supermarkets save the NHS £xx. I think it's been debunked though. I mean, it may save a marginal amount of money, but we're talking the pences here, not pounds.

If anything, supporting your local independent pharmacy and paying that little extra is a much bigger investment than spending it in a supermarket giant which rains millions of pounds in profit. The cuts to community pharmacy really isn't helping the healthcare system.
squiby
8 Dec 16 1 #151
​oh i know, ever the cynic lol. It so sad to see an institution created to do great stuff had just become gold mine for those serving their self interest.
wackypaki
8 Dec 16 2 #150
​there are 3x more pakistani doctors as a proportion than compared to the general public..
dans1972
8 Dec 16 #148
Is this a deal? it seems the goods on offer are retailing at normal prices so no deal.Cold from me
squiby
8 Dec 16 #147
​haha never! good old BBC actually :wink:
samspud
8 Dec 16 #145
DISCLAIMER - (before people get on their soap boxes) I am NOT talking about people who have a genuine need.

It really bugs me when I go into a pharmacy and tick the box to say I pay for my prescriptions when its full of low life's sucking the life out of the economy whilst contributing nothing to it. I don't mind paying and doing my part but there's so many leeches around who smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much and breed too much (without having the assets - financial and emotional) that really makes it tiring handing over £8/9 every time :disappointed:

Anyway...HOT lol
f4had
8 Dec 16 12 #14
no GP prescribes Paracetamol anyway. :man:
simont_space to f4had
8 Dec 16 #144
Depends if you need regular painkillers. They do, and usually 100 in a box
peterbmkelly
8 Dec 16 2 #142
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/pic/9/9184.jpg
ttttd
8 Dec 16 6 #141
You're actually attacking people who don't exist, a culture of benefit fraudsters has been discredited many times.

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

At less than 1% fraud rate, the benefits system is hugely efficient.I don't know if you've applied for JSA recently but they give you peanuts, wouldn't cover rent anywhere.

I think I found your problem


The Daily Mail by any chance? Stop reading rags.
TobyD1472
8 Dec 16 #140
The PL number means it's the same tablet inside the boxes so it can be different manufacturers with the same PL number! :smiley:
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 2 #139
​Seriously, what are you on? I'm not attacking people who pay INTO the system!
bold_guy
8 Dec 16 #138
Here is a fact that 3 or so years ago it cost the N.H.S £86 per patient to see the G.P not sure today's value and then as others have said and I have witnessed people going just for O.T.C medication/pain kills that cost pennies. G.P's you need to make people pay for these painkillers ontop of this last nights program G.P's behind closed doors a young Asian guy took a perscription for painkillers but then this DR should of told the guy to BUY these himself. This government and previous are all corrupt take backhanders, I'd better stop there before we go to deep
Fergmeister
8 Dec 16 1 #136
Drugs all have a Product License number (PL) on the box - if the PL numbers are the same, it's the same product from the same manufacturer (as far as I know). There was something on about it on BBC the other week. Not sure that Neurofen will have the same PL as a generic ibuprofen, but I'm pretty sure all their varieties (back pain, period pain etc) all have the PL number.
quinno1977
8 Dec 16 1 #135
​again there are always exception, the point is about those people ordering basic items on prescription just to save themselves a £1. it's a massive issue in Northern Ireland as we all get free prescriptions and some people just take advantage costing the nhs millions in unnecessary costs.
JinglebellsJinglebells
8 Dec 16 #134
I think pharmacies should hold more responsibility in supplying meds like this so safety protocols are there. I don't think they should be this cheap or available this easily in supermarkets. Paracetamol overdose is easily done if you think about all the products that have it in ie flu/cough meds etc and is one of the hardest things to reverse because of the small therapeutic index of the drug (toxicity is easily achieved if you take more than recommended.) Yes people might think it's a waste of resources for the NHS but just think about the cost and impact of accidental / non accidental overdose?
ItsFrazer
8 Dec 16 3 #133
Good but the main reason the NHS is dying our governments choices.
smallsteve
8 Dec 16 8 #132
I am typing this from a hospital bed, but I am fortunate enough to be in as a private patient and paying for my own medications!
I am shocked that anybody could think that we would be better off without the NHS, The inference being that it should instead be in private hands. Hasn't worked well for the rail industry, no care homes for the elderly - watch some of the exposes in this area! I believe it doesn't work too well America either.
Blaming certain social groups is just a distraction and misses the big picture that is government under-funding.
It would be a crying shame to lose the NHS, an institution we should all be proud of.
csi_guy
8 Dec 16 #129
I always buy paracetamols in poundshop as I assume they're cheap. :disappointed:
Uridium
8 Dec 16 2 #127
I've lost count of the number of times I've queued up in the Pharmacy to get a prescription and heard every single person other than me in the queue say no when asked If they pay for there prescription...
robertoegg
8 Dec 16 5 #126
The thing with these sorts of figures are that it's a one-eyed view of the picture. The reciprocal arrangement we have with the rest of the EU states means that the other EU countries pay far, far more for UK Health Tourists than the UK pays for EU Health Tourists. Being one of the richest countries in the world, we have a very much higher % of people travelling on holidays and the like than others. The UK bill for health outside of the UK is ENOURMOUS. Just think of the number of brits who are going to need attention from winter sports injuries, or the drinking accidents during the summer....

But hey, don't worry about that - we'll soon be free to pay just our own bills, and I think a quick search will show that UK costs outweigh EU costs to us by about 5 to 1. So we save a quid, but have to spend 4. lol.

The balanced view doesn't fit with today's thirst for outrage though

(edit: I'm not having a go at you btw! Or others! I'm concerned that the message is put out so one-sided. I think that is wrong.)
Agaeti
8 Dec 16 1 #125
I think trump has been occupying the news quite nicely to sweep a few things under the rug.
thabiz
8 Dec 16 1 #93
All medications should be "opensource" and available for delivery online without prescription, no patents. And if paracetamol is available this cheap and you can self service the stuff (it is one of the most dangerous medications), then why do women have to do some stupid questionnaire or something to receive the relatively safe morning after pill?.

Why do people with mental health issues have to go through the process of calling a doctors and have to wait until the medication has run out before they can get the prescription (so travelling is a problem). Then they have to go to a Pharmacy and potentially pay £8.20 for a medication that they need in order to live a better life.

Not to mention the ridiculous waiting time in Pharmacies, how long does it take to pick a packet off a shelf or draw and put it in a bag?. Then they ask you loudly "Do you pay for your Prescriptions?", which in modern day Sun reading Britain has very negative social implications.

The system is broke, but it won't be fixed. Just more "NHS Foundation Trusts" and private firms milking the NHS for everything theyv'e got, whilst it lasts. Plenty of fat cats on the fiddle and execs taking back handers.
The post war socialist structure is being eradicated if you haven't noticed..
Agaeti to thabiz
8 Dec 16 #122
To your first point, while I agree with no patents, making it accessible without prescription is a bad idea. People who have chronic conditions should have their medicines on prescription so it's on the system, their doctor knows what they take and how much and can make changes if necessary.

To the second point, is it not usually that they have it regular set up for something like you get 2 months worth at a time (going by what i remember my friend has to do) and then when it comes close to the end (like 2 weeks left) you go and get your next batch.

I usually wait under 10 minutes in the pharmacy when ever I've picked up a prescription, presuming they have to do stuff on their system, double check the amount, dose and medication. I can see that taking a few minutes. Maybe I just have had a very different experience with the NHS to you.

I think the worst things currently with the NHS are GP/hospital wait times and bed spaces. This, I imagine, is primarily due to lack of good resource management and lack of funding. That and a large number of people who go to A&E/GP for minor reasons.
robertoegg
8 Dec 16 2 #121
This is what you get with no meaningful opposition. And a huge group of apathetic constituents. I can't believe the Tories aren't getting more grief, their spin dept is masterful. I mean, everyone now has all their internet usage logged and available for a huge number of groups to access should they wish, including Works and Pensions, Police, etc - anyone squeak about that? Nope.... Everyone's too busy bewing outrageously outraged about some non-story involving a celeb somewhere. Then blaming immigration. :disappointed:
IndyS
8 Dec 16 #120
£8 billion over 6 years according to an article in the Guardian.
benjammin316
8 Dec 16 1 #119
This is all rrp stuff wtf
funkycaveman
8 Dec 16 #118
Deal
brendanhickey
8 Dec 16 2 #116
does this save the nhs money. I thought socialised means we pay more for things like paracetamol and less for things like cancer treatment. for example a nhs proscription costs £8 but the nhs does not pay £8 for paracetamol so they are making money from it to subsidise the expensive medicane. if everyone bought over the counter cheap meds woundnt the whole point of socialised medication be undermined
Agaeti
8 Dec 16 6 #115
Jonathan Pie did a good video on this. It's also happening to the BBC. A conservative government basically breaking socialist organisations because that way they can be privatised with no complaint.
eklynne
8 Dec 16 #113
It's not free, we all pay for the nhs.
djames108
8 Dec 16 2 #109
​don't forget their husbands who own shops and businesses that on paper don't ever make a profit.....therefore zero tax for the household.
mrsmcnicky
8 Dec 16 #108
:smiley: Fantastic post, heat added.
IndyS
8 Dec 16 1 #94
Paracetamol has always been cheap in stores so I don't class this as a deal but more informative for the people that did not know. On the subject of the NHS haemorrhaging funds, why has no one mentioned 'health tourists' who take it for a ride to the tune of £600 Million per + year!
snoopy18 to IndyS
8 Dec 16 #106
Post 39
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 5 #105
​Uneducated and uninformed? I'm a 31 year old Accountant studying at night school to better myself to better provide for my wife and future family. When I left school I worked nights in factories, I have worked day shifts in supermarkets while working evenings in pubs as a second job. I have worked as a brickies labourer and also swept the floors in a steel factory. For the last 9 years I have worked my way up from a credit controller to a Management Accountant. I have done my fair share of graft so I will not apologise for not showing respect to those who refuse to.

I don't understand how my views on thinking other people should have to work and pay their way offends your values. I'm genuinely interested how my comment offended you. All I can presume is that you yourself are jobless and receiving said benefits and have taken some exception to me saying you should be without your cancer sticks or 4k TV.
TRAMP_K1LL3R
8 Dec 16 #104
Don't do drugs kids
ses6jwg
8 Dec 16 3 #102
one of the worst demographic for this are the baby boomers pots of cash but still take take take what they can get for free
Chouman
8 Dec 16 5 #101
£43 for a GP appointment we're told; plus this mother gets to pass the cold (an incurable virus) on to however many more people she comes in to contact with (including the GP!), then the cost of the prescription too. This would be one of the many reasons the NHS is on its knees. Pay your pound in Tesco or Poundland and get your generic cold relief and stop wasting the country's money.

My wife and I have worked hard since leaving school and we believe in the NHS for what it was set up for. If you need basic care then you can have it. If you need a nose job, boob job, braces on your teeth for cosmetic reasons, etc then go and pay for it yourself. If you don't like it then find somewhere else that thinks that wasting thousands on these "treatments" should be funded by your peers and abuse their system instead.

As someone who "pays their dues" I am frankly fed up of subsidising others. We've been told to expect to pay an addition £3xx more on our council tax next year because we (just scrape) in to a "luxury" house banding. I need to pay to get my windows and doors replaced plus upgrade my hearing to modern standards when I have the pleasure of driving past council homes (which I am paying to subsidise) are getting them done. I'd love to have been allowed a council house when I started work but my wife and I didn't fit the criteria to get one, so we've had to pay our own way, and then pay for others to benefit from them instead. Even where we live I have to pay an annual maintenance charge for some open space to be tended to as it's a newish development, but we have to allow others in from out with our development who graffiti structures, damage equipment, etc we then have to pay to get brought back to a good standard.

Strip back the NHS to what it was designed for. Cut back public services to what they should have been. If you pay for something then you generally try to ensure that you get the most from it. If you don't pay then you tend to see it as not being of sufficient value to respect it.

If you've worked hard, you should get more. If you're unable to work, you should get more. Otherwise, no, try harder and live on the "breadline". There's 3 billion people in the world who have to survive on less than. £1 per day. What gives you the privilege to say your life is worth more than theirs solely by virtue of where you happen to be born.

Nobody in this country would starve to death without a food bank. You'd find they'd make a different choice of how their money is spent if it was actually that bad.

I support charities like mercy ship, like children's hospices, like refugee camps. These people rely on charity to live. They do not take advantage of other people's generosity because they are making bad choices.

Your woman above. If she reckons it's maybe once a year she does this, then I would support a 2p per week rise to her benefit payment to pay for the generic brand lemsip. That way I can expect to see a reduction in the money I pay to the UK government to pay for the wasted appointment and prescription.

Rant over!
cb-uk
8 Dec 16 3 #100
Isn't that because they aren't allowed out in public unless accompanied by a male family member? Or is that another group?
getknk
8 Dec 16 #98
nhs is in dire straits. Whenever i go , the excessive redtape and process, inefficient equipment make me double think.. that privatisation may have a point
moneysavingkitten
8 Dec 16 2 #20
£28 for 16 aspirin? Think I'll pass.
dealerxxx to moneysavingkitten
8 Dec 16 #97
Think it was a typo
tianuk3
8 Dec 16 7 #96
The only way you can save the NHS from bankruptcy is by voting. Vote the Conservatives out of office (and make sure UKIP don't get any power) and you will still have an NHS.
oqey
8 Dec 16 #92
What we get for having a monopoly
nameskhan
8 Dec 16 6 #90
Or vote for a government that increases the budget for the NHS instead of the privileged grammar schools
Dj CUE
8 Dec 16 1 #89
Wow, this thread is crazy, everybody has really strong views on the NHS. Personally I think the problem is the NHS needs to change, change costs money and people (generally) don't like things changing so it is trying to be run in a similar way it was when the population with access to it was 20 million less. Also the more medicine and medical procedures advance the more demand there is for the NHS. With demand the way it is the NHS is not fundable without massive tax increases. The real question for me is, do we all pay more taxes to fund for everybody or do we privately fund our own healthcare?
dave80
8 Dec 16 1 #49
All well and good if you pay £8.20 per prescription, you save a packet. But what if like me you have an annual prepayment certificate? Should I choose to pay on top of that for cheap medications and this will save the NHS?
Infinitesd to dave80
8 Dec 16 1 #57
When did prescriptions get that expensive? Last time I got one it was about £6.00
quinno1977 to dave80
8 Dec 16 #88
​no-one here is suggesting people getting the medicine they need under the nhs, just the plane waste of money through simple steps.
autorob
8 Dec 16 1 #87
have a bit of heat
cburns
8 Dec 16 8 #85
So many upset at little things.... manipulated to see the small lies and ignore the big :wink:
Reebok Ron
8 Dec 16 #84
Ibuprofen is the same price at Savers and Home Bargains, 25p for 16 (200mg).
Reebok Ron
8 Dec 16 14 #83
There's always one uneducated and uninformed **** on here and today you're it.


I agree, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Dr_Lovegod
8 Dec 16 1 #82
Absolutely agree. They the same price in Aldi and home and bargains.
dreamt12
8 Dec 16 3 #81
it's the minor ailment scheme that p****s me off. why should filling a form out entitle you to free paracetamol etc. I get free prescriptions but I would never take a prescription for anything I can buy over the counter and nor should anyone.
sickly sweet
8 Dec 16 1 #80
That mother is however taking a GP appointment when really it wasn't necessary.

I had to wait 3 days for a doctors appointment even with a suspected (and then confirmed) infection, so having an appointment for a cold just to get some free paracetamol really isn't a good use of the GP's time or NHS resources and negatively impacts the genuinely sick.

The scenario you gave would be when the 'minor ailments' scheme would be ideal - anyone with prescription exemption charges can go to a pharmacist and get things like paracetamol, thrush treatment, nappy rash treatment, anti-diarrhoea treatments etc free.

By seeing a pharmacist for minor ailments it frees up the GPs appointments so they can see people with more serious issues.

It's a shame the minor ailments scheme isn't nationwide as it really would help GP waiting lists!
MisterSkinflint
8 Dec 16 7 #79
My doctors surgery is bursting at the seams with people who can't speak English and don't look as if they are from the European union. If they aren't entitled refuse them or make them pay.
Teza511
8 Dec 16 1 #78
Nope don't agree with that statement when the rest of the uk have to pay for it.
sickly sweet
8 Dec 16 2 #77
To be fair, going from past experiences, any system implemented to work out who can afford, or should be paying for, prescriptions would be so expensive that it would probably wipe out any savings!
Curlyman83
8 Dec 16 4 #76
Why is that ridiculous? I assume that person "earning a good wage" pays their taxes, in which case, they are entitled to their 'free' medication. It's we that have it ****-about-face, not the other countries of the UK!
sickly sweet
8 Dec 16 #75
I know.

I was just trying to give an alternative perspective to the majority of people saying that there was no need for paracetamol on prescription. In fact there is a need, so it's good to see other perspectives.
Ellendel
8 Dec 16 8 #74
Exactly.

Only Doctors, Managers, and business interests would benefit from the privatisation of the NHS.

I've been repeatedly impressed that the vast majority of the first two groups have the integrity to actively resist it.
yorkie
8 Dec 16 1 #73
Lol, you know you could be on to something there.
cb-uk
8 Dec 16 11 #72
And here's the NHS costs for Ibuprofen (the generic version of Nurofen).

The NHS cost is £0.16 to £0.20 for a pack of 16 tablets, which is probably the same or less than Tesco's charge.

Hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a little scaremongering and lack of education!

Still believe the NHS is paying 30 times more for your meds???

http://i.imgur.com/L5COZDR.jpg
johnthehuman
8 Dec 16 13 #71
How bizarre, it's almost like this government has some kind of ulterior motive to want the NHS to fail.
Teza511
8 Dec 16 4 #69
But it's ridiculous that people earning a good wage even get it for free
bma1445
8 Dec 16 13 #68
Wow there's so much uninformed BS in this thread.

Research showed that the actual cost to the NHS of 7 days worth of paracetamol was £1.68. That's 56 tablets, so around double the price you can buy it for in Tesco. This cost includes all relevant costs, such as pharmacy, etc. Tesco often sell things like this as a loss-leader.

The boxes in Tesco aren't designed for ongoing treatment - anyone who needs paracetamol for more than a few days needs to see their GP. Most GPs won't prescribe something that's available cheaply if it's for a short period of time (i.e. a cold/headache), but if you need it long term, however cheap you can buy it in Tesco, it should be prescribed.

I have 4 prescriptions on a monthly basis - I don't get them free, I pay in advance on the NHS prepay scheme. I think it's £104 for 12 months - or about £2 a prescription for me. I looked up the NHS cost of my medications - I think it added up to £250 a month.

I don't believe in free prescriptions. I pay my way in life, but without the standard prescription fee, we'd either be in the same situation as the states - relying on insurance companies, or I'd be shelling out £3000 a year, purely for the privilege of having an illness.

There are, of course, exceptions. A mother who has recently been made unemployed and has no money gets a cold. Does it hurt that she goes to the GP to get paracetamol and lemsip? That £4 spent in Tesco could be spent on baby food, or heating.

The world isn't black and white people.
Teza511
8 Dec 16 1 #61
Why is it that prescriptions are free to every person in Scotland, wales & Northern Ireland ?
yorkie to Teza511
8 Dec 16 5 #65
Because they voted through the devolved powers to have it subsidised by the tax payer. How that tax is raised is another question.
eklynne to Teza511
8 Dec 16 11 #66
​Because we vote for administrations that care about the people, not the banks and businesses.
eklynne
8 Dec 16 5 #64
Also worth nothing that 'ranitidine' is just generic Zantac. Usually £1 odd in supermarkets.
yorkie
8 Dec 16 3 #63
The medication part of the tablet is 100% the same, it's only the fillers that they use to bulk out the tablet that can be different, as well as obviously being allowed leeway on shape etc.
1on4
8 Dec 16 #62
I totally agree, and think that everybody should pay for prescriptions. My 5 month old takes a lot of medication, some very expensive. They are free for him but if I had to pay for them, even at £8.20 each, I would because they keep him alive!
robertoegg
8 Dec 16 11 #60
Totally agree, the government has been crippling the country by cutting the budgets of local councils to such an extent that exisiting social care no longer exists and the elderly are reliant on the nhs. All these sneaky taxes and cuts only serve to provide a fertile ground for finger pointing and the on-trend scapegoat is immigration. The tories are happy to keep this status quo going for as long as it deflects the blame from them.

We live in a civilised society which surprise surprise we have to pay for. We can't have our cake and eat it, but we vote for people who promise just that. Smoking, diet (inactivity) and elderly care are huge drains on the NHS at a time when their budgets are being slashed. Soon, once broken, the Tories will be able to say "not working, sell it off" and private companies will drive the budgets.
carolinej81
8 Dec 16 1 #59
Yes, I agree. Sometimes people need paracetamol on prescription for chronic pain.
This is aimed at those people might only take this type of medication occasionally and are not aware that there is often a very cheap alternative to the branded medications available over the counter.
dave80
8 Dec 16 #55
Less than 10% may be paid for but the £8.20 is way above the average price they pay for the medications most people take.
joedastudd
8 Dec 16 3 #54
Yep those getting free prescriptions are going to be browsing this site and will see the error of their ways.....
They get free prescriptions because they meet the criteria which generally means they are financially struggling in the first place.

Most of the pharmacists will look at a prescription and tell you if its cheaper to just buy the product if you have to pay for it anyway.
sickly sweet
8 Dec 16 9 #52
I'm going to put a spanner in the works here :laughing:

My dad is prescribed paracetamol as part of his pain management for 'moderate to severe arthritis of the back'.

He has been prescribed 4 - 6 paracetamol tablets a day.

Due to the restricted sales of paracetamol he would only be able to buy 3 packs of 16 at one time, which would only last a week or so and he doesn't go shopping or have access to a pharmacy that regularly.

In addition to that, when he has to go to hospital - he's had a few strokes and other medical issues - by having it on his prescription form the dose is automatically dispensed to him along with his other medications. If it were not on the prescription then it is considered a 'recommendation' rather than a 'prescribed medication' and not automatically given to him.

Another benefit of prescribing it is that the doctor knows what contraindications may occur with his other meds and can manage the drugs and make sure he has regular blood tests etc to make sure no damage is being done. Doctors really do need to know what you're taking!

And my last point - if he weren't prescribed it, he probably wouldn't take it. He's fixed in his ways and wouldn't accept a suggestion of taking them, however once prescribed it's more than a suggestion and he feels obliged to follow the doctor's orders. And as a result he is in less pain.

So, there are some times that prescribing paracetamol is a good thing.
joedastudd
8 Dec 16 1 #51
The NHS get massive discounts on drugs as they by massive qualities, they are one of the largest medical buying powers in the world.
The requirements to get free prescriptions in England are pretty tight and I doubt include many of the people on this website.
theyiddo
8 Dec 16 13 #47
You forgot to include the rest of the picture with Jeremy Hunt next to the bucket with a shotgun, blasting the holes in it.
sofiasar
8 Dec 16 4 #42
iv never received these from drs , infact they have stopped giving them .

I don't call this a deal too. any dick or Dom knows how much they are in places
thomasleep
8 Dec 16 2 #40
I am glad you said when feasible as there are a lot of people who simply cannot afford to pay for any medication 19p or not, and they do get freebies from big pharma companies.
furiousjammin
8 Dec 16 9 #37
I dont think you quite understand. It isn't the people who are paying for prescriptions that are bleeding the system dry, its the ones with free prescriptions who are using their exemption to get trivial medication on a prescription that the tax payer pays for. The NHS supply the medication, but have to pay extortionate fees to the big companies for the drugs. The OP is offering an alternate way of doing it, wherebye the ill person actually contributes and buys the paracetamol for 19p themselves...
quinno1977
8 Dec 16 5 #36
northern Ireland has free prescriptions for all, that's fine in many cases but when doctors are prescribing items that cost very little to buy its a problem. there should be a £2 minimum cost to patient before prescriptions are offered! how much would a simple thing like that save.... probably millions.
carolinej81
8 Dec 16 #35
You are talking about an NHS prescription charge. Buying generic would cost you less than 60p
gavin1
8 Dec 16 12 #34
Wouldn't getting paracetamol on prescription be better for the NHS?

Leaving aside the prescription only stuff as that's moot,If we all buy the drugs off prescription that are cheaper than the prescription fee, but only use a prescription when they cost more than the fee, the NHS always have to make up the shortfall.

MIMS (which list drug prices) has the 500mg paracetamol tablets at 32 for 73p, If you were to be prescribed 32 tablets, and paying the £8.40 that means that after you take the drug price off, and the dispensing fee (from PSNC) of 90p, then the the NHS gets £6.77 "profit" from you.

That helps subsided the drugs, the people and facilities (and no they don't get enough but that's a different point) that cost a lot more, if it gets too out of balance the fees would rise, or the subsidy go meaning you could be paying a lot more per drug like they do in the USA.
superewok
8 Dec 16 1 #32
I would imagine that you instruct your doctor that you don't want/need the paracetomol/ibuprofen and that you will get them yourself - when that is feasible to do.

I do wonder if doctors get some incentive from prescribing certain drugs like this, as my mother and dad used to get them prescribed like they were sweets.
flamethrower
8 Dec 16 #31
The worst I've found is that so many people are selling prescription stuff on eBay like diabetics test strips/ cassettes etc which I'm sure NHS is paying at least £20 on each!
pixilincus
8 Dec 16 14 #30
It drives me crazy how people go to the doctor for common cold and for free medication.... Our NHS is on its knees and yet we are still insisting on heading to the doctors and hospital for the tiniest of things...... I refuse to go to the doctor unless absolutely necessary and in terms of medication you can buy in the shops id buy supermarket brands before wasting a doctor's time and NHS money... Nice post OP :smile:
chunky_teddy
8 Dec 16 7 #27
Suppose if you are on 8 a day every day then buying over the counter is difficult due to restrictions on how many you can buy
neoboy
8 Dec 16 7 #26
No the problem is that people who are exempt from the charges use the prescriptions and then pharmacies make a fortune from the government on all these paracetamol, ibuprofen and aspirin prescriptions.

Fair enough for all other medications but for something that is so ridiculously cheap in any supermarket, shop or even pharmacies themselves it's a 'liberty' take on the system to be completely frank. People definitely wouldn't do it and go buy it in a shop if they had to pay £8.20 themselves for it.
chunky_teddy
8 Dec 16 #24
Hundreds of people on free prescriptions from each practice getting 100 to 224 paracetamol a month
mikegrath
8 Dec 16 1 #22
food post op I like it.
lianne21
8 Dec 16 #19
Didn't know Sainsbury have pharmacies, are they in store?
Freggles
8 Dec 16 7 #17
​ More than you think.
Freggles
8 Dec 16 4 #16
​ Many, many are exempt from prescription charges, so they can opt to have it free. Doctors have a responsibility to treat, so difficult to say "stop prescribing"
jeffsmaw
8 Dec 16 #12
Heat
KEEP_IT_TEA
8 Dec 16 20 #11
I run and work nursing homes and buy these meds aplenty


The supermarkets/bodycare are cheapest for meds

Please avoid Sainsburys ~now lloyds
when its was sainsburys running the pharmacies, prices were cheap.
Now lloyds have taken over the sainsburys pharmacies the same ibuprofen and paracetamols have doubled in price
galene
8 Dec 16 15 #9
I get really annoyed when I hear from my friends 'oh you can get it prescribed'. Yeah I know but that's a waste of money for NHS and I always manage to find a deal on what I need for over the counter meds. Pharmacy Direct often has good deals delivered not mentioning Amazon.
dafunq
8 Dec 16 1 #8
Couldn't agree more
tailo
8 Dec 16 1 #7
Heat added.
tehwabbit
8 Dec 16 24 #6
Not really a deal if you have ever been to a UK supermarket though!
octoserve
8 Dec 16 8 #5
Hot for just the description alone.
feed_me_chocs
8 Dec 16 17 #4
Bargain.

In before the 2600% price increase.
jeczap
8 Dec 16 66 #3
The NHS

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